EPT[ASL13] Ro4 Day 2 - Page 6
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Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
was afraid it would affect him mentally | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On April 04 2022 05:36 Shinokuki wrote: You gotta wonder how much generational talent we've been missing out on and how many mind blowing meta would've came if kespa level competition never dissolved.. Rain just clowned on a guy who was thought to be the best player in the world by korean community. Koreans thought Soma would take this ASL in case you guys were missing out. Rain was a foregone conclusion since even he said he wasn't confident.. Kinda sad to see BW not having new talents like LoL. to be fair, weren't they saying on the broadcast that rain just won a lol tournament also?  | ||
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oxKnu
1259 Posts
We're getting Bisu vs Soma as 3rd place match. Always a nice series. | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
On April 03 2022 20:05 Soulforged wrote: Rain is innovating quite a bit there, with these citadel plays into late stargate, even in 2nd game when his scouting got denied at 100 gas on the Zerg. Cross pylon scout into nexus first vs pool-after-overlord is also very odd to see in a pvz. He seems to have prepared well for Soma. I wonder if we'll see Soma's odd 2hatch lair open today. Pretty standard by rain. He can do all of this simply because 14 nexus putting him way ahead. Forces Soma into a den first build with no spire so he is free to go fast zealot speed | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
On April 04 2022 03:34 M2 wrote: Rain is like high level Kespa era gameplay. Crazy shit Everyone is way better than they were during kespa, just compare the replays. You guys are pretty hype on Rain and he deserves the W and is good but a successful scout 1st into 14 nexus is essentially a free win. Rain had huge leads in all 4 games he won, 2 14nex and 2 forge fe vs fast pool 4x. Not sure why soma kept going early pool vs rain's opens. Fear of cannon rush? | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia969 Posts
He also followed all that up with going 2stargate in the last game vs scouted 3hh, expecting a muta switch. While he did confirm mutas hatching, stargates went up way before he scouted lair. In the earlier games, opening citadel first is not something you can easily do vs a lair open, even if you had a nexus first. In one case the citadel open was reactive, in another, his probe died when Soma just got his first 100 gas and he still went citadel first, vs a ling speed open. Being able to get a core before an extra pylon is speeding up the corsair, but it is like 10-20 seconds. Zerg isn't forced to play no spire vs that, they can adjust gas timing to match, or hide overlords for a bit. Rain just won most of the mind games in the series. Agreed on the above about having early game leads constantly. (Not to take away from the stellar execution later) | ||
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TornadoSteve
1115 Posts
rain's map control and units movement is totally unique. Hes getting an "A+" for anything else, pretty much. but the way he control his units everywhere on the map at once, i honestly never see anyone else doing it. This is why the guy is so good at PvsP, where his army positioning and his army movement gives him an insane edge. Its a beauty to watch, especially when you understand how difficult it is. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13425 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
I'll say it now though...I'm a T supporter first of all but Rain has something special. So this doesn't come from a place of bias. Rain just understands Broodwar better and that understanding comes out when it matters most. Like Flash, he doesn't just play the game better mechanically he understands what needs to be done and where everything needs to be and in which order. I picked Rain to win on liquibet simply because of this. I was blown away at how well he played though even knowing that. I predicted Light vs Rain in the finals a long time ago, I picked Light to win back then. After what I saw tonight I'm going to pick Rain to win the final. He just has champion in his blood. He doesn't get nervous, he plays well even if he is in a tough spot. I can't pick against him simple as that, even as a Terran fan. If Light did win I'd be happy but my bet has to go to Rain. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On April 04 2022 11:50 TornadoSteve wrote: no science rain's map control and units movement is totally unique. Hes getting an "A+" for anything else, pretty much. but the way he control his units everywhere on the map at once, i honestly never see anyone else doing it. This is why the guy is so good at PvsP, where his army positioning and his army movement gives him an insane edge. Its a beauty to watch, especially when you understand how difficult it is. Absolutely true. Great post. Like I said before Rain's army management midgame is at the very top. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On April 04 2022 07:50 LpTraxamillion wrote: Everyone is way better than they were during kespa, just compare the replays. You guys are pretty hype on Rain and he deserves the W and is good but a successful scout 1st into 14 nexus is essentially a free win. Rain had huge leads in all 4 games he won, 2 14nex and 2 forge fe vs fast pool 4x. Not sure why soma kept going early pool vs rain's opens. Fear of cannon rush? It's not a free win at all. That's just not a thing at any point in top level brood war. You don't get free wins from any openers except a few extreme examples. You get advantages sure, but we have seen those advantages disappear time and time again even for the very best players. Let say he did get a 14 nexus off vs a zerg with a scout first...you think that's a free win? That's insane my guy. Zerg has so many options to counter. In fact we saw them in the series. Give credit where it's due. Rain played a very strong opening line then out played an excellent zerg from there. Soma had chances to win throughout the series despite the nexus first. Rain just played better. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On April 04 2022 07:44 LpTraxamillion wrote: Pretty standard by rain. He can do all of this simply because 14 nexus putting him way ahead. Forces Soma into a den first build with no spire so he is free to go fast zealot speed How the hell does a 14 nexus force a den first with no spire? That's just not it works. Sure it might put Soma behind a bit economically but it definitely doesn't mean Soma can't go spire. Beyond that...if 14 nexus is "pretty standard" than why doesn't every protoss do that and "force" the den opening with no spire? Just complete nonsense man. Nexus fist isn't standard at all. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On April 04 2022 06:46 oxKnu wrote: Underrated aspect of this result: We're getting Bisu vs Soma as 3rd place match. Always a nice series. Truth!  looking forward to it. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On April 04 2022 07:50 LpTraxamillion wrote: Everyone is way better than they were during kespa, just compare the replays. You guys are pretty hype on Rain and he deserves the W and is good but a successful scout 1st into 14 nexus is essentially a free win. Rain had huge leads in all 4 games he won, 2 14nex and 2 forge fe vs fast pool 4x. Not sure why soma kept going early pool vs rain's opens. Fear of cannon rush? You make the pool first to defend early zealots and to force cannons from protoss. An ideal counter to hatch first is nexus first, an ideal counter to pool first is to defend with just one cannon which is risky but regardless it delays the nexus. None of those are "huge leads". It's just a slight advantage for P that can be possibly be exploited by zerg on the follow up. It's a nice position for the protoss in those spots but it's far from a huge lead. I promise it wasn't a fear of a cannon rush. If you think Rain won these games simply because of the opening then you don't understand broodwar. Simple as that. Also I just want to mention almost no one is better than the kespa era mechanically but collectively the game understanding has improved and the meta has shifted. | ||
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Lazyer
United States388 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1115 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Anyway, the best possible outcome happened. Great finals, and a third placement match that I'm keen to watch for once (Soma v Bisu grudge match rather than PvP). Massive win for the fans! | ||
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angry_maia
331 Posts
That being said, I think best might have better pvt than rain, but he's so much worse at the other two matchups that it just doesn't matter in tournament play. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1115 Posts
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