[ASL6] Ro24 Group C

On September 06 2018 19:46 Miragee wrote:
Movie didn't build a forge during his push when he saw the DTs...

On September 06 2018 19:47 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Is this live? Is Bisu or Stork playing today?

On September 06 2018 19:48 Miragee wrote:
Well, that's what you call a beginner's mistake.

On September 06 2018 19:47 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Is this live? Is Bisu or Stork playing today?

On September 06 2018 19:48 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
There is a good chance this is the worst game of this season.

On September 06 2018 19:50 De4ngus wrote:

It's gotta be the worst game I've seen in years lol

On September 06 2018 19:49 Zera wrote:

Since when Movie is a beginner?

On September 06 2018 19:54 Ayjayzee wrote:
Was the idea perhaps that Movie was too far behind to just make a forge + cannons, since he still wouldn't have an expansion? So he figured his only way to win would be to just hope that Best forgot detection and they would kill each other's bases with the DT's, but Movie would sneak a pylon and 2 cannons onto the map somewhere that Best's DT's couldn't kill?

Only thing that makes any sense, and it's a stretch...

On September 06 2018 19:47 TornadoSteve wrote:
I remember getting a ban warning when i first point out the guy had a low IQ. He pushed the limits again today. Well done bro

On September 06 2018 19:54 Ayjayzee wrote:
Was the idea perhaps that Movie was too far behind to just make a forge + cannons, since he still wouldn't have an expansion? So he figured his only way to win would be to just hope that Best forgot detection and they would kill each other's bases with the DT's, but Movie would sneak a pylon and 2 cannons onto the map somewhere that Best's DT's couldn't kill?

Only thing that makes any sense, and it's a stretch...

On September 06 2018 20:05 Miragee wrote:
That was a pretty dominating display. Great usage of the reaver.

On September 06 2018 20:08 Dante08 wrote:
Mind's push was so painful to watch. A moving tanks into reaver/dragoon and not even using his goliaths to target the shuttle.

On September 06 2018 20:07 Motivate wrote:
i really need to see a convincing terran win over a protoss

everyone always looks so crap at the match up. even last (supposedly the 2nd best terran) is pretty average at pvt unless he plays a tilted player like mini.

On September 06 2018 20:09 Dante08 wrote:


I don't think Best did anything special. 9 out of 10 Protoss players can do that on a 2 player map.

On September 06 2018 20:09 Dante08 wrote:


I don't think Best did anything special. 9 out of 10 Protoss players can do that on a 2 player map.

On September 06 2018 20:11 TT1 wrote:
yea u dont really wanna do a timing after scouting p went speedshuttle with 2 reavs.. thats why 2 base timings fell out of fashion, theyre just weak =/

On September 06 2018 19:54 Ayjayzee wrote:
Was the idea perhaps that Movie was too far behind to just make a forge + cannons, since he still wouldn't have an expansion? So he figured his only way to win would be to just hope that Best forgot detection and they would kill each other's bases with the DT's, but Movie would sneak a pylon and 2 cannons onto the map somewhere that Best's DT's couldn't kill?

Only thing that makes any sense, and it's a stretch...

On September 06 2018 20:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That DT jeez, how many drone kills?

On September 06 2018 20:27 Motivate wrote:
i know it's hard to notice when DTs are killing probes/drones sacrsi has such poor map awareness

On September 06 2018 20:31 PVJ wrote:
What's up w/ Tasteless? I missed the beginning of the stream.

On September 06 2018 20:49 TT1 wrote:
looks like both mind and movie got paid to throw this game, this is just atrocious gameplay

On September 06 2018 20:59 Oya187 wrote:
Lol, who are you to judge these players? You guys talk an awful lot from the observer perspective, it's easy to know what the perfect play is when you are just a spectator. I would like to see every one of you bashing Movie going up on that stage and playing the best game of your life and not do a single mistake. Pffft, keep in mind that just because you see the whole map and see what both of them are doing laying on your couch at home relaxed and thus know the answers on what to do, doesn't mean the players who are in the heat of the moment automatically knows what you know.

On September 06 2018 20:54 Miragee wrote:


Mind didn't play too bad imho. Nothing spectacular but solid. That first push also wasn't that bad. Yes movie cleaned that up rather handily in the end but he killed quite a few probes on that push.

On September 06 2018 21:04 Motivate wrote:

Yea but we haven't played starcraft professionally before nor do we spend most of our spare time playing this game

We also haven't qualified for ASL

On September 06 2018 20:59 Oya187 wrote:
Lol, who are you to judge these players? You guys talk an awful lot from the observer perspective, it's easy to know what the perfect play is when you are just a spectator. I would like to see every one of you bashing Movie going up on that stage and playing the best game of your life and not do a single mistake. Pffft, keep in mind that just because you see the whole map and see what both of them are doing laying on your couch at home relaxed and thus know the answers on what to do, doesn't mean the players who are in the heat of the moment automatically knows what you know.

On September 06 2018 21:06 TT1 wrote:


Mind should have won the game with his 1st move out, instead of hunting down p's army he decided to ignore it and hit his 3rd. That's such a cringe worthy rookie mistake to make, you're letting p cut off reinforcements and he can just re-engage with his units from the top.. he basically isolated his army for no reason when he had the opportunity to do the exact opposite to P.

After that he proceeds to get supply blocked for like 2 mins like he always does (on 160, he also got supply blocked vs Sacsri on 92 and floated 1.1k on 2bases) which made him float up to 3k mins when he wasnt even maxed. When Movie decided to throw his entire army at 12 (god knows why) he went up to 4k mins.

A few mins later, he moves out and sees p has carriers, instead of taking every expo on the map (cus hes floating a shitton of mins with no gas) he decides to take a single expo bot right, he even had an SCV sitting at 3oclock forever. That was beyond terrible play by both players, at least Mind got a good EMP off on Movie's 1st arb, that's the only good thing he did that game.

On September 06 2018 21:33 NoS-Craig wrote:


If you don't like people talking about the games maybe you should head elsewhere.

On September 06 2018 21:48 Oya187 wrote:


Talking about the games and constantly bitchin' about what terrible players in this example Sacsri and Movie are is two completely different things. And I love that the people that actually know the least always has the most to say. We already have two experts Tastosis/RAPiD commenting and talking about the games pointing out everything which is enough. No need to have a bunch of wannabe experts rant on what mistakes were made and how terrible they were when the fact is that you probably can't even make a proper split to begin with. Just enjoy the games. Dont hate, appreciate.

On September 06 2018 22:29 Sokokrey wrote:
what a threw by movie again, i'm pretty sure that he is the new match fixer

On September 06 2018 21:48 Oya187 wrote:


Talking about the games and constantly bitchin' about what terrible players in this example Sacsri and Movie are is two completely different things. And I love that the people that actually know the least always has the most to say. We already have two experts Tastosis/RAPiD commenting and talking about the games pointing out everything which is enough. No need to have a bunch of wannabe experts rant on what mistakes were made and how terrible they were when the fact is that you probably can't even make a proper split to begin with. Just enjoy the games. Dont hate, appreciate.

On September 07 2018 00:12 Miragee wrote:


Calling Rapid an expert is rich. I like the guy but I'm sure everyone, including himself, knows that he is not an expert. Artosis is getting back into form but he is not quite back at his old level imho. I would agree when you said that sometimes the hate goes overboard but stating that some play was terrible is perfectly fine. We are not in rainbow unicorn land so negative opinions are just as valid as positive ones.

On September 06 2018 23:35 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Oya every thread in the tournaments section devolves into armchair critics calling the S rank players C- newbs.

On September 07 2018 00:22 Oya187 wrote:


Sad but true. Peoples expectations of progamers are to high, they view them as some sort of gods and expect them to be robots that perform completely flawless everyday without ever being allowed to be tired, have a bad day and make mistakes. It's like they forget that it is 2 professionals under pressure battling it out vs eachother and the goal is trying to make your opponent do as many mistakes as possible while minimizing your own.

Seems like the majority of people that comment here has never even tried to play BW, atleast not on a decent level. And if you actually did play this game on a decent level you would understand that the higher of level you get to the harder playing BW gets. Playing on a professional level is as hard as it gets. All the distractions and being at 10 different spots at the same time normally leads to making unnecessary mistakes but that's something people can't realize or comprehend, and that is just a minor factor among maaany others that take part in a high level game but many choose to ignore all of these and don't want to see the bigger picture.

In example, instead of looking at it like "Omg Movie lost his arbiter to a turret like a noob" I instead see it as Mind successfully kept him busy to lose that arbiter in such fashion. Claiming that Movie did a shit attack and that he should have known that it was a shit attack is easy to say while sitting at the sideline as a spectator but it's not as easy to figure out as the player while juggling many things at the same time, even for a progamer. Just saying, none is perfect, not even progamers and expecting them to be perfect and never make mistakes or miscalculations is just stupid. That's just my two cents.

On September 07 2018 00:22 Oya187 wrote:


In example, instead of looking at it like "Omg Movie lost his arbiter to a turret like a noob" I instead see it as Mind successfully kept him busy to lose that arbiter in such fashion.

On September 06 2018 23:19 Dante08 wrote:
Artosis was in shock when the obs clicked on Movie's base and there was no forge lol

On September 07 2018 03:32 sharkeyanti wrote:
There's a degree of respect you should have for the players on stage and understanding that it's very easy to criticize from behind the screen. That said, Movie has been playing pro Starcraft for many years and not getting detection vs. DTs is hard to make sense of. And the attack on Mind's 12 o'clock went on for a very long time. It was not a small engagement, Movie had plenty of time to notice all the vultures and to recognize that he was just streaming units through a choke.

On September 07 2018 03:32 sharkeyanti wrote:
There's a degree of respect you should have for the players on stage and understanding that it's very easy to criticize from behind the screen. That said, Movie has been playing pro Starcraft for many years and not getting detection vs. DTs is hard to make sense of. And the attack on Mind's 12 o'clock went on for a very long time. It was not a small engagement, Movie had plenty of time to notice all the vultures and to recognize that he was just streaming units through a choke.

On September 07 2018 05:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Players are critiqued based on expectations and how they perform in relation to their peers. Professional football players have terrible games sometimes, but even their terrible performance is better than the possible top performance of 99.9% of people criticizing them.

That said I didn't really mind movie's final game. The attack towards 12 was dumb. But losing an arbiter to a turret can happen to anyone. I've played this game semi-competitively for like, most of the past 20 years, and I can tell you one thing; the game you play from your own perspective always looks a whole lot better than from an observer's perspective. Even when I've had the feeling 'man, I played really well that game', if I watch the cast, or a replay of the game, I end up thinking 'damn, I kinda sucked that game' because suddenly all the mistakes I made are put on display. The observers don't catch everything also, very frequently there's some skirmish detracting the attention of a player which makes the player lose focus of what is happening on the actual screen. This is the beauty of bw; with the exception of Flash, all players make significant mistakes in every single game.

The not building a forge against the dt, that's on another level, akin to the not upgrading 3-2 melee/carapace in group A for 10 minutes. But at least here, I can see how maybe he actually tried to start building the forge, but maybe a probe got in the way, or he started a goon which made his resources go down to 146 right before the forge was about to start, or whatever, and then he didn't go back to his base for 40 seconds because he was busy microing his attack, and then he's like oh my god I didn't start the forge. Or whatever. The game is amazingly chaotic and unintended stuff happens all the time.

Now, if upon noticing that dts were attacking his units he actually thought 'I'm gonna counter-dt rush 3 minutes later than him and make cannons in some weird place', then he's a total idiot worthy of all the derision in the world, but I find that very unlikely.

On September 07 2018 09:05 BigFan wrote:
Folks are free to criticize the gameplay of the players such as Movie's late forge in his game vs Best and 2 cannons on some random base, Movie losing an arbiter to a turret, Movie attacking Mind's fourth base through a choke, Mind's isolation of his army or Sacsri not noticing the dt which cleaned up two bases etc... However, it is absolutely unacceptable to attack them personally, question their intelligence or throw matchfixing allegations around, as if these players need some dirt thrown on them.

Matchfixing allegations on TL are taken very seriously and are actionable regardless of who posted the comment. Please don't make such allegations and remember that all players, well, except Flash, seem to have good and bad days. In this case, there is likely some reasons for Movie's decisions which may not be apparent to observers who have complete vision of the game.

Was Movie and Mind's performance disappointing? For sure. Movie was a top players during the Sonic era and is an OSL finalist. We know he is much more capable than what he showed today, however, he also came back to BW with ASL5 and has had his focus switch from purely BW to other things as implied in the pre-game interview. Only he know if he'll ever return to his previous form. As for Mind, his TvP is really inconsistent and for whatever reason, micro seemed to be non-existent in his Autobahn game today, but at least he made the Ro16 and he usually shows better games later on.

On September 07 2018 05:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Players are critiqued based on expectations and how they perform in relation to their peers. Professional football players have terrible games sometimes, but even their terrible performance is better than the possible top performance of 99.9% of people criticizing them.

That said I didn't really mind movie's final game. The attack towards 12 was dumb. But losing an arbiter to a turret can happen to anyone. I've played this game semi-competitively for like, most of the past 20 years, and I can tell you one thing; the game you play from your own perspective always looks a whole lot better than from an observer's perspective. Even when I've had the feeling 'man, I played really well that game', if I watch the cast, or a replay of the game, I end up thinking 'damn, I kinda sucked that game' because suddenly all the mistakes I made are put on display. The observers don't catch everything also, very frequently there's some skirmish detracting the attention of a player which makes the player lose focus of what is happening on the actual screen. This is the beauty of bw; with the exception of Flash, all players make significant mistakes in every single game.

The not building a forge against the dt, that's on another level, akin to the not upgrading 3-2 melee/carapace in group A for 10 minutes. But at least here, I can see how maybe he actually tried to start building the forge, but maybe a probe got in the way, or he started a goon which made his resources go down to 146 right before the forge was about to start, or whatever, and then he didn't go back to his base for 40 seconds because he was busy microing his attack, and then he's like oh my god I didn't start the forge. Or whatever. The game is amazingly chaotic and unintended stuff happens all the time.

Now, if upon noticing that dts were attacking his units he actually thought 'I'm gonna counter-dt rush 3 minutes later than him and make cannons in some weird place', then he's a total idiot worthy of all the derision in the world, but I find that very unlikely.