EPTOn November 01 2017 04:51 enkidude wrote:
When are third place match and final?
When are third place match and final?
There is a 3rd place match?
[ASL4] Ro4 Flash vs Bisu - Page 50
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
There is a 3rd place match? | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On November 01 2017 08:54 [AS]Rattus wrote: tbh. i usually defend rapid but what race is he actually playing? he said he doesn't play toss but he also missed several interesting points in flashes game, so he can't be a terran either, right? that said, i hope he will try to improve again. Even not playing both P and T you should know the basics. He missed so many things it is incredible. Just two examples: - In game 2 he sees the compo citadel/arhives/starport in one location and he is hoping for dts because Bisu is famous for dts. - In game 3 he sees the second early starport and he is telling the audience that this is for fast arbiters (there is not even a citadel down). A little bit later the obzerver (the man, not the unit) shows us that the engeniering bay is lighting like an upgrade is caming, he shows us the academy and he shows that Flash have canceled a factory... meanwhile Rapid is speaking some randomness. When Flash starts the rax production he is so exited that he described it a "the deep 6", witch is a specific BO coming out much earlyer and before the 3th expansion is taken. There are many many things like that. I really did not enjoy the commentator.  | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On November 01 2017 09:18 RowdierBob wrote: People didn't really think Bisu was a chance to win this? When did Bisu last beat Flash in a meaningful game? WL and PL finals? | ||
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Miragee
8684 Posts
I think Bisu would benefit from a coach so much in this situation. | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On October 31 2017 03:09 RWLabs wrote: Who are we kidding, Flash will probably win. I predict 3:1. My heart says Bisu though. I hate being right. I really hope Hero pulls some kind of a miracle and beats Flash, because I'm really sick of Flash winning everything. | ||
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Miragee
8684 Posts
On November 01 2017 09:52 RWLabs wrote: I hate being right. I really hope Hero pulls some kind of a miracle and beats Flash, because I'm really sick of Flash winning everything. Yeah, it feels like repeat of 2010/2011. Flash got so good at his race that it was boring. I got tired of watching his games and just hoped he would lose so I could watch the VOD... I don't think Flash is as good now as he was back then. He makes a lot of mistakes he just didn't back then. However, the dominance is quite similar or maybe even bigger. There is no Jaedong that could challenge him. No Fantasy. Bisu would probably need a coach, as I stated in my last post. I don't know, without coaches in the scene people seem to be even more nervous and make a lot more uncharacteristic mistakes when playing Flash. I'm not saying Flash wouldn't be the best player out there but I think he wouldn't look as dominant as he does atm. Considering what he was able to do in 2010/2011, he certainly looks beatable today. Just not by the players and their currents levels in the scene right now. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
when were those? | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
I don't hate on Rapid for trying his best and I appreciate the effort he put in even if he's not a real BW player but his commentating was just embarrassing and chose the korean stream instead. Where was artosis and tasteless? | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Flash lost to Bisu on Aztec in the finals for Shinhan Winners League 2011, after Bisu used his excellent zealot micro-management and multi-tasking to secure a lead which he capitalized on later. Flash again lost to Bisu on Neo Chain Reaction in the finals for SK Planet ProLeague S1, after Bisu used his excellent zealot micro-management and multi-tasking to secure a lead which he capitalized on later. The head coach of KT Rolster personally approached Flash before the game, and said that the strategically smart thing to do was to send Stats (who had a 3-0 head-to-head record versus Bisu), but since everyone wanted a Bisu versus Flash ace match to decide the ProLeague championship, the head coach asked Flash if he would be okay with being sent out on a difficult map for the terran race. Flash would accept the challenge, and it indeed was a fitting match to conclude the last ever properly scheduled Brood War ProLeague, but ultimately fell short in the end. Both these situations had Flash playing on a heavily protoss favoured map, and due to SK Telecom T1's plethora of counter measures versus Flash (BeSt, FanTaSy, and Bisu), Flash had an information disadvantage coming into these games. All three players from SK Telecom T1 had a superior win rate versus Flash when they were playing for their team, than when they were playing Flash outside the context of playing for SK Telecom T1. Bisu had his fair share of triumphs versus Flash, even after his ascension to godlike status, but when these players had nobody else to prepare for but one another, it was often Flash that came out ahead. There's a reason why Flash has a lower career ace match win rate than all three ace cards from SK Telecom T1 (Bisu, FanTaSy, and BeSt). Almost every team had a plan coming in versus KT Rolster, and sometimes prepared weeks in advance for Flash should the matches reach game five, while the same simply could not be done for SK Telecom T1 due to their deeper ace card pool. I believe the most recent triumph Bisu had over Flash in terms of an individual league setting, whilst both were playing professionally was in the quarter-finals for WCG Korea 2009, where Bisu pulled out what I personally think was one of the most insane execution of dragoon micro-management in history, to stop Flash's timing in the deciding third match. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On November 01 2017 10:57 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Was the easiest bet of my life really. Flash is just an insane algo and against a player with holes and not much momentum or confidence will pretty much 3-0 or 3-1 the entire roster right now. Flash kinda broke the game and only another dude like him playing Zerg or P can beat him but I think that kid hasn't been born yet. I don't hate on Rapid for trying his best and I appreciate the effort he put in even if he's not a real BW player but his commentating was just embarrassing and chose the korean stream instead. Where was artosis and tasteless? It's as if people choose not to pay attention to ANYTHING outside of the asl on purpose. What about effort, like a week ago? | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 01 2017 10:58 Letmelose wrote: Flash lost to Bisu on Aztec in the finals for Shinhan Winners League 2011, after Bisu used his excellent zealot micro-management and multi-tasking to secure a lead which he capitalized on later. Flash again lost to Bisu on Neo Chain Reaction in the finals for SK Planet ProLeague S1, after Bisu used his excellent zealot micro-management and multi-tasking to secure a lead which he capitalized on later. The head coach of KT Rolster personally approached Flash before the game, and said that the strategically smart thing to do was to send Stats (who had a 3-0 head-to-head record versus Bisu), but since everyone wanted a Bisu versus Flash ace match to decide the ProLeague championship, the head coach asked Flash if he would be okay with being sent out on a difficult map for the terran race. Flash would accept the challenge, and it indeed was a fitting match to conclude the last ever properly scheduled Brood War ProLeague, but ultimately fell short in the end. Both these situations had Flash playing on a heavily protoss favoured map, and due to SK Telecom T1's plethora of counter measures versus Flash (BeSt, FanTaSy, and Bisu), Flash had an information disadvantage coming into these games. All three players from SK Telecom T1 had a superior win rate versus Flash when they were playing for their team, than when they were playing Flash outside the context of playing for SK Telecom T1. Bisu had his fair share of triumphs versus Flash, even after his ascension to godlike status, but when these players had nobody else to prepare for but one another, it was often Flash that came out ahead. There's a reason why Flash has a lower career ace match win rate than all three ace cards from SK Telecom T1 (Bisu, FanTaSy, and BeSt). Almost every team had a plan coming in versus KT Rolster, and sometimes prepared weeks in advance for Flash should the matches reach game five, while the same simply could not be done for SK Telecom T1 due to their deeper ace card pool. I believe the most recent triumph Bisu had over Flash in terms of an individual league setting, whilst both were playing professionally was in the quarter-finals for WCG Korea 2009, where Bisu pulled out what I personally think was one of the most insane execution of dragoon micro-management in history, to stop Flash's timing in the deciding third match. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12BZjrGJxH8 So over 5 years ago? | ||
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Jealous
10345 Posts
He went 3-4 vs. Flash in sponmatches this month. The chance was there. | ||
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LaoShuAiDaMi
United States88 Posts
Are you trying to say that those don't matter because they happened a long time ago? That was the last time Brood War was really relevant up until the present day, and besides how many meaningful games did they even play over these past 5 years? | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2553 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
And I'm not trying to say anything, just pointing out the original question was " When did Bisu last beat Flash in a meaningful game?" and the answer I'm getting is over 5 years ago. | ||
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Jealous
10345 Posts
On November 01 2017 12:35 mishimaBeef wrote: Yeah sponsored matches during stream aren't really that meaningful compared to big offline tournament like ASL. And I'm not trying to say anything, just pointing out the original question was " When did Bisu last beat Flash in a meaningful game?" and the answer I'm getting is over 5 years ago. So if spon matches are not meaningful then there have been no meaningful games since 5 years ago, I think. The undercurrent to the question is setting up a misleading answer, if we follow these standards. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51101 Posts
On November 01 2017 12:35 mishimaBeef wrote: Yeah sponsored matches during stream aren't really that meaningful compared to big offline tournament like ASL. And I'm not trying to say anything, just pointing out the original question was " When did Bisu last beat Flash in a meaningful game?" and the answer I'm getting is over 5 years ago. actually no, sponmatches are the highest for players, even more than offline tournaments, I wouldn't use sponmatch stats if they were meaningless. ladder rank has less value at that level. | ||
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