EPTlool what an idoit that guy is!
you are downloading RAM
[OSL] EVER 2009 OSL Grand Final - Flash vs Movie - Page 191
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cabarkapa
United States1011 Posts
lool what an idoit that guy is! you are downloading RAM | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
I only have one real comment here cheering for a protoss in the finals for the first time in years: Sacrifice the nexus, not all of your probes. At least then you have a fighting chance. What an irritating end to a finals run! | ||
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On January 18 2010 08:49 theSAiNT wrote: Anyone got a working link for games 1 and 3? Or somewhere to download a vod of the english commentary? Sorry I haven't gone through all the comments in fear of spoilers but I basically know what happened anyway. Was hoping you could update first post  zomg English commentary is terribad | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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peetah
Sweden88 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On January 18 2010 07:19 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: That was soo easy. not at all I thought it was a pretty impressive showing from the loser. Nothing short of what I expected at least. Flash got pushed pretty hard all the games that I've seen so far (1, 2, and 3) | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On January 18 2010 10:51 3 Lions wrote: not at all I thought it was a pretty impressive showing from the loser. Nothing short of what I expected at least. Flash got pushed pretty hard all the games that I've seen so far (1, 2, and 3) flash would have lost game 1 if movie had gone carriers instead of arbiters. even after he went arbiters, movie still could have won if he hadnt kept recalling to the same spot and failing | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
On January 18 2010 02:16 StorkHwaiting wrote: What timing window in Game 1? The entire reason Movie was able to get that many expos up was because Flash closed any window of attack. That's the point of turtling, All Movie did was gas steal -> proxy robo, which got scouted. So he does what 80% of all protoss do, take more expansions! The reason Movie got away with all of this so smoothly was because Flash chose to turtle and not take any risks. It's pretty easy to expand vs a turtler. If you can explain what was "brilliant" about Movie's opening and how any other P would have trouble doing this, feel free. It's nothing I haven't seen before. You say there was nothing he could do once Flash turtled, and his entire plan was basically to sit around and macro while letting Flash turtle. So what exactly was brilliant about that strategy? Game 2 warrants degrading for Movie. 5 temps 0 storm. I don't get how anyone is comparing Movie to Stork/Bisu. Movie beat Shine. Hooray. That doesn't make him = Bisu/Stork or massive potential or anything. Stop hyping this guy. He's nowhere close to TaekBang. Yeah, a sub 50% winrate Toss and people are speculating whether Stork/Bisu MIGHT have done better? Are you guys nutty? you are just looking at surface level what happened. high level thought was that movie expected flash to see the proxy robo, and movie expected flash to waste resources on turrets for a drop which never came. this was a brilliant move and did in fact put movie ahead at that point in the game. the proxy robo also allowed movie to sneak in observers into flash's base. it was a great build but unfortunately movie just didnt have the mechanics/where with all to capitalize. i think in this series movie was most let down by his mechanics. | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On January 18 2010 08:21 BraveNewWorld wrote: that's a stream you're downloading bandwidth. Rofl | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On January 18 2010 11:04 esla_sol wrote: you are just looking at surface level what happened. high level thought was that movie expected flash to see the proxy robo, and movie expected flash to waste resources on turrets for a drop which never came. this was a brilliant move and did in fact put movie ahead at that point in the game. the proxy robo also allowed movie to sneak in observers into flash's base. it was a great build but unfortunately movie just didnt have the mechanics/where with all to capitalize. i think in this series movie was most let down by his mechanics. yah, just to clarify: ( --> = triggers) 1. gas steal --> 1 barrack expand. it was kindava surprising movie last week, when flash used it against best, but since movie already saw it he expected this to happen. 2. because flash expanded so quickly, he expected aggression from movie and sent his scout out to look for proxies. flash finds the proxy robo --> ebay + turrets at this point the level of strategic thinking stops in normal games. the protoss will continue with the harass even though it was detected, the terran will defend, etc. buttt 3. why did movie build the proxy? Was he going to proxy shuttle reavers? Maybe... or maybe his thinking was a bit more insidious and he wanted the robo bay to be found to trigger a defensive reaction from T, forcing Flash to waste resources while Movie expands. The commentators speculate as much. but whether he expected the robo bay to be found or spontaneously countered, he saves resources by only producing observers and uses the extra minerals on two nexuses. in other words, T defense --> P nonproduction of harassing units, instead going for a fast triple nexus. 4. flash waits and waits for the reavers to come, but nothing comes. wtf? he thinks. so he sends out his small force of marines/tanks/vultures to check... only to realize that any timing advantage he could have gotten in attacking a double expand has long since evaporated, and movie is overwhelming him with both units and economy. flash gives up his aggression and quickly builds a command center. movie builds his 4th nexus. 5. at this point flash realizes he's hellla behind and he has no hope but to divide the map in two. he does not push past the first ridge but instead builds a fat ass supply wall on both sides. it is here that the new heartbreakridge works to his advantage as the first ramp connects to the middle in this version, which will be key in his later attacks and in taking the center. movie builds his 5th nexus at 11 oclock. one could surmise that flash's decision to not attack stems a lot from his PL game against Stork, in which he lost. If you remember that game, when flash realized Stork's third was up he rushed in with a timing push that was ultimately repelled. From then on he had no choice but to play defensively but was so far behind that the carriers crushed him. 6. Flash turtles, hopes to survive to 200/200, and waits for Movie to make a mistake. Movie obliges by going arbiters instead of carriers (remember, in stork's PL victory over flash he quickly went carriers after gaining his huge economy advantage). 7. Movie attempts to ram the proverbial square peg into a round hole by recalling into flash' main. the first attempt fails, but the reasoning is understandable (knock out production units, force static defense to move back, etc.). the second attempt is just flat out retarded and causes movie to lose a huge amount of units and the map control he had had, resulting in the 5 oclock being destroyed and his 11 oclock attacked. flash takes the 5 oclock instead. the game is now in flash's favor. 8. and it's all downhill from there. P gets grinded down, flash takes the unusual move of taking the center, gets a huge econ advantage which translates to unit advantage, then takes out movie base by base. when movie does have time to mass an army, he attempts to attack the massed up center which is clearly suicidal. gotta wonder what was going on in movie's psyche after the midgame stage.. he gave up a huge advantage to stubbornly force his "will" onto flash and gave up a game he really could have won. | ||
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duckett
United States589 Posts
totally abusive play by movie too x.x | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On January 18 2010 09:59 No_eL wrote: impressive games by flash, especially game 2 (godly defence) and game 4 (superior intelligence) superior intelligence? wtf? bunker rush is THE most standard reaction to a 12-nex. Flash did not invent the bunker rush or use it in an epic mind-game type tactic. He just executed a very nice bunker rush that Movie reacted horribly to. game 4 was Flash micro>>>>>>>Movie micro, no real strategy or "intelligence" involved there. | ||
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FireGuyX
United States1712 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 18 2010 11:04 esla_sol wrote: Game 2 warrants degrading for Movie. 5 temps 0 storm. I would say that's more likely Flash's ridiculous micro, and not Movie's failing. Storm range is significantly less than tank range, and Flash's templar sniping was damn near perfect. On January 18 2010 12:12 FireGuyX wrote: Where do you guys rank Movie compared to the other Protoss? I know he's a top 5 Protoss, but is he better then Jangbi, Kal, Bisu, Stork, or BeSt? Best - Definitely Movie > Best, and I say this as a Best fan. Best's recent PvT is good, but Movie's PvZ is unquestionably better right now, and I'd give Movie the edge in PvP as well (seeing as Best keeps losing with DT builds). Bisu - When Bisu is playing to peak performance, he's a better player than Movie, but he hasn't done that recently, and Movie has been more consistent. Jangbi - Jangbi's better against T, and his vZ has been doing well recently. However, its hard to call Jangbi's vZ better than Movie's, given that it's always been Movie's best matchup, and that Jangbi's currrent vZ streak is almost entirely PL games. Neither player has played any PvP since last month, but I'd give the edge slightly to Movie in that matchup. Kal - Tough one to call. Kal's PvT is hard to discuss, since he's only played 5 PvTs in the last month, 4 of which were against Hwasin (and teammate games are generally hard to use for comparisons, since both players know each other's styles). His recent vZs are filled with losses to Jaedong, but other than that, he hasn't played many tough opponents in the last 2 months. His vP stats look definitively better than Movie's though. Overall, I'd say that Movie is playing a little better. Stork - Movie's vZ is better. Stork's vT is better. Movie can play some top-notch PvP sometimes, but overall, I think Stork is more solid in the matchup. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On January 18 2010 12:12 FireGuyX wrote: Where do you guys rank Movie compared to the other Protoss? I know he is a top 5 Protoss, but is he better then Jangbi, Kal, Bisu, Stork, or BeSt? Imo Protoss looks something like this to me atm... 1. Stork 2. Bisu 3. Movie 4. Jangbi 5. Kal | ||
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SQneo
Canada89 Posts
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
Great finals though; I'm glad to see Flash finally winning again after 4 OSLs. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On January 18 2010 12:41 reincremate wrote: It must be harder to throw someone in the air while wearing suits. They didn't seem to throw Flash as high as they did when he won Bacchus 2008. Maybe he's just heavier now. Or maybe KT's fitness regime isn't as intense or weight-training based. Great finals though; I'm glad to see Flash finally winning again after 4 OSLs. Well, Flash was a kid back then. First OSL he won as a small kid. 2nd title came after he matured sooo much. Take the MSL Flash! Be the legend! | ||
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