On January 18 2010 13:26 iamho wrote: movie is sooo overhyped. he took a game off flash because he got lucky and flash didnt scan right. he has one a-class matchup and two matchups that are mediocre on a good day imo:
I love how people keep saying this.
You think Flash is just going to happen to mis-scan? The only way he's not going to have enough scans is if Movie is actively forcing them to use them on battles, which is, guess what, EXACTLY what Movie did.
Also, ranking Movie under someone who's never qualified for a league makes zero sense whatsoever. I like Violet and all, but when you never have to prepare for anything other than Proleague games, that generally tends to pad your stats.
Actually I thought it was weird that Flash didn't sense goliaths when Movie basically stopped attack when Flash had a reduced army. For those who advocate that Flash couldn't take the risk; there was no risk. There is no reason not to attack after crushing the terran army. You want to fake the terran out into making goliaths? Why not just recall or attack and win. I don't think it mattered anyways, though, seeing how massively behind Flash was at that point, but saying that he was unprepared for carriers is odd, because it was pretty obvious they were coming.
On January 18 2010 14:39 thinkzerg wrote: Flash got back in the game the minute Movie wasted his advantage, via those poor recalls. The hallucinate was a pretty badass idea though.
I thought he lost the advantage when he tried to 200/200 into Flash's sim city and lost 70+ supply while Flash lost 30 (most of that being vultures).
Movie really should've tried to attack Flash's 3rd as a diversion. I mean recalling into the main without distracting Flash is not going to work. Edit: mean this as an edit of my above post, >< Flash didn't make any noticeable mistakes other than trying for a macro game on EOTS, so that's why i don't mention him.
On January 18 2010 14:39 thinkzerg wrote: Flash got back in the game the minute Movie wasted his advantage, via those poor recalls. The hallucinate was a pretty badass idea though.
I thought he lost the advantage when he tried to 200/200 into Flash's sim city and lost 70+ supply while Flash lost 30 (most of that being vultures).
Was that before the recalls? I honestly can't remember.
Yeah, okay. Movie lost his advantage when he loses 60 pop to Flash losing 15 pop, and 5 supply depots before the bad recalls.
Just rewatched the beginning of game 2 and it's obvious Movie could have easily saved the reaver (9:10). There's also absolutely no reason to lose the DT at 9:43, especially when Flash's comsat addon hasn't even started building yet.
Just rewatched the beginning of game 2 and it's obvious Movie could have easily saved the reaver (9:10). There's also absolutely no reason to lose the DT at 9:43, especially when Flash's comsat addon hasn't even started building yet.
Movie didn't see the siege tank and boom the reaver died, that was great sniping on Flash's part. Once the reaver died there was little the dts could do other than attack the factories. He could of tried microing with the shuttle/dts around but there was a turrent near both ccs, not to mention Movie didn't have fast shuttle yet.
Just rewatched the beginning of game 2 and it's obvious Movie could have easily saved the reaver (9:10). There's also absolutely no reason to lose the DT at 9:43, especially when Flash's comsat addon hasn't even started building yet.
Movie didn't see the siege tank and boom the reaver died, that was great sniping on Flash's part. Once the reaver died there was little the DTS could do other than attack the factories. He could of tried microing with the shuttle/dts around but there was a turrent near both ccs, not to mention Movie didn't have fast shuttle yet.
There was no turret near the building turret. That was huge mistake, there's really no way to argue against it. Movie couldn't multitask? It was early game, and only 2 things to take care of on 2 base. He heard the siege tank for the reaver. These are facts, and obvious mistakes, there's no justification other than he made a blunder. Other than that and the recalls in game one, Movie played well. Actually he should've put the templars in shuttles in game 2, they got stuck behind Movie's zealots and dragoons and were picked off long range. But he lost the game at that point anyways.
On January 18 2010 15:15 FireGuyX wrote: Movie didn't see the siege tank and boom the reaver died, that was great sniping on Flash's part.
He might not have seen it but he should have heard it siege at least. Well, either he was focusing entirely on it and that's a big blunder (not noticing the tank in time) or he was macroing at his base at the time while his reaver was outside of the shuttle, which is quite an horrible idea as well anyway.
Once the reaver died there was little the dts could do other than attack the factories. He could of tried microing with the shuttle/dts around but there was a turrent near both ccs, not to mention Movie didn't have fast shuttle yet.
There was at least one outside-of-turret-range spot left (bottom right of Flash's nat I believe) but he may not have been aware of it. The least he could have done is force a lift on Flash's bottom fac (he could have hit it outside of the newest turret's range). And even if there was nothing left worthwhile to do with that DT, saving it along with the reaver would have helped tons later on. Not to mention the fact Flash would have been a little more cautious in everything he did (taking his second expo etc) had he known these two units were still around.
The reason I'm making so big a deal out of this is because his whole opening is based on those two units from two different tech patterns, so he should have definitely paid a lot more attention to either. Instead he lost them both quite stupidly.
On January 18 2010 12:12 FireGuyX wrote: Where do you guys rank Movie compared to the other Protoss? I know he is a top 5 Protoss, but is he better then Jangbi, Kal, Bisu, Stork, or BeSt?
Imo Protoss looks something like this to me atm...
1. Stork 2. Bisu 3. Movie 4. Jangbi 5. Kal
Why is Jangbi above Kal when Kal made it to MSL Ro8 and is doing much better in Proleague overall?
On January 18 2010 15:15 FireGuyX wrote: Movie didn't see the siege tank and boom the reaver died, that was great sniping on Flash's part.
He might not have seen it but he should have heard it siege at least. Well, either he was focusing entirely on it and that's a big blunder (not noticing the tank in time) or he was macroing at his base at the time while his reaver was outside of the shuttle, which is quite an horrible idea as well anyway.
Once the reaver died there was little the dts could do other than attack the factories. He could of tried microing with the shuttle/dts around but there was a turrent near both ccs, not to mention Movie didn't have fast shuttle yet.
There was at least one outside-of-turret-range spot left (bottom right of Flash's nat I believe) but he may not have been aware of it. The least he could have done is force a lift on Flash's bottom fac (he could have hit it outside of the newest turret's range). And even if there was nothing left worthwhile to do with that DT, saving it along with the reaver would have helped tons later on. Not to mention the fact Flash would have been a little more cautious in everything he did (taking his second expo etc) had he known these two units were still around.
The reason I'm making so big a deal out of this is because his whole opening is based on those two units from two different tech patterns, so he should have definitely paid a lot more attention to either. Instead he lost them both quite stupidly.
Most likely he didn't notice the siege tank. And of course it's a big deal, because if Movie harassed properly he would of won the game.
On January 18 2010 13:26 iamho wrote: movie is sooo overhyped. he took a game off flash because he got lucky and flash didnt scan right. he has one a-class matchup and two matchups that are mediocre on a good day imo:
I love how people keep saying this.
You think Flash is just going to happen to mis-scan? The only way he's not going to have enough scans is if Movie is actively forcing them to use them on battles, which is, guess what, EXACTLY what Movie did.
Also, ranking Movie under someone who's never qualified for a league makes zero sense whatsoever. I like Violet and all, but when you never have to prepare for anything other than Proleague games, that generally tends to pad your stats.
Actually I thought it was weird that Flash didn't sense goliaths when Movie basically stopped attack when Flash had a reduced army. For those who advocate that Flash couldn't take the risk; there was no risk. There is no reason not to attack after crushing the terran army. You want to fake the terran out into making goliaths? Why not just recall or attack and win. I don't think it mattered anyways, though, seeing how massively behind Flash was at that point, but saying that he was unprepared for carriers is odd, because it was pretty obvious they were coming.
Movie didn't "crush" the Terran army. All he did was deny the 4th and get ahead some in supply. It wasn't one of those huge Terran pushes that gets broken. Hence why Flash saw that as more of a setback rather than massive loss of army and OK now Movie should be coming at me with 1a2a3a. Flash still had a long ass line of tanks across half the map.
Movie wasn't going to "recall or attack and win." You're totally inflating his supply advantage. He was up by a lot in eco denying the fourth and had an edge in supply. It wasn't like 70 vs 150. Flash was well defended vs recall by turrets and mines, hence why Movie's only recall that game got shut down badly.
On January 18 2010 13:26 iamho wrote: movie is sooo overhyped. he took a game off flash because he got lucky and flash didnt scan right. he has one a-class matchup and two matchups that are mediocre on a good day imo:
I love how people keep saying this.
You think Flash is just going to happen to mis-scan? The only way he's not going to have enough scans is if Movie is actively forcing them to use them on battles, which is, guess what, EXACTLY what Movie did.
Also, ranking Movie under someone who's never qualified for a league makes zero sense whatsoever. I like Violet and all, but when you never have to prepare for anything other than Proleague games, that generally tends to pad your stats.
Actually I thought it was weird that Flash didn't sense goliaths when Movie basically stopped attack when Flash had a reduced army. For those who advocate that Flash couldn't take the risk; there was no risk. There is no reason not to attack after crushing the terran army. You want to fake the terran out into making goliaths? Why not just recall or attack and win. I don't think it mattered anyways, though, seeing how massively behind Flash was at that point, but saying that he was unprepared for carriers is odd, because it was pretty obvious they were coming.
Movie didn't "crush" the Terran army. All he did was deny the 4th and get ahead some in supply. It wasn't one of those huge Terran pushes that gets broken. Hence why Flash saw that as more of a setback rather than massive loss of army and OK now Movie should be coming at me with 1a2a3a. Flash still had a long ass line of tanks across half the map.
Movie wasn't going to "recall or attack and win." You're totally inflating his supply advantage. He was up by a lot in eco denying the fourth and had an edge in supply. It wasn't like 70 vs 150. Flash was well defended vs recall by turrets and mines, hence why Movie's only recall that game got shut down badly.
After the battle, Movie was in a good position to just macro up and attack the terran army, seeing how he secured a nice economic advantage and Flash lost a ridiculous amount of tanks. Looking from Flash's perspective during the short glimpse of the FPVOD, he saw no sign of Movie's army anywhere on the map, which should've raised a lot of flags. Actually the reason why Movie's only recall got shut down was his inability to adapt. He made it so obvious that he was going for a recall in the main, so Flash moved units back, and Movie saw this and recalled anyways.
If Movie can regularly PvT like he did that series then he's unquestionably the best Protoss at the moment. However it's not certain that he can, those games were the results of weeks of practice.
On January 17 2010 20:24 Ricjames wrote: Omg Flash is gonna destroy everyone in 2010 - I really don't see any protoss that could stand up against him right now and his TvZ and TvT are flawless
Honestly I actually thought Movie was quite close to winning that series, and if Stork or Bisu had been playing (and on these maps ... all 4 maps used were good for PvT) they would have had nearly if not more than 50% to win.
Similarly Flash's TvZ keeps getting chipped away at - his 3rd denial style has already been countered to some degree and with literally every great Zerg working on beating it it's only a matter of time. Obviously the JD MSL finals are the greatest test.
But yeah his TvT is absolutely immaculate and I can't see him being anything but a heavy favorite in every important TvT for the foreseeable future.
Yeah I've noticed that, I still think Terrans can do that type of harassment if they split the units. But it would be better if Terrans just send out their whole army to wipe out the zergs main.
His 3rd denial style has been countered by 2 hatch muta...which ends up losing every game against him because of his mnm control, econ advantage, and timing pushes, so not really countered. Zergs still aren't close to breaking his TvZ.
On January 18 2010 15:48 KwarK wrote: If Movie can regularly PvT like he did that series then he's unquestionably the best Protoss at the moment. However it's not certain that he can, those games were the results of weeks of practice.
Well, again, in terms of builds, strategies and decision-making, it was S-class stuff for sure. In terms of macro too. But his control/execution were extremely disappointing imo, and not just because Flash made it look worse than it actually was. I strongly believe this is what he should work the most on improving (unless this was purely final/nerves-related).
On January 18 2010 15:48 KwarK wrote: If Movie can regularly PvT like he did that series then he's unquestionably the best Protoss at the moment. However it's not certain that he can, those games were the results of weeks of practice.
Well, again, in terms of builds, strategies and decision-making, it was S-class stuff for sure. In terms of macro too. But his control/execution were extremely disappointing imo, and not just because Flash made it look worse than it actually was. I strongly believe this is what he should work the most on improving (unless this was purely final/nerves-related).
He needs to improve on his PvP too, he lost to freaking M18M.
On January 18 2010 16:01 MrHoon wrote: So daily esports released an article about who Flash practiced with
All KT Protosses and check it out, 3 Top Dragons! Kal, Stork and JangBi have practiced with Flash rigorously for the final
yikes
Flash has nutso insano connections.
Did they say who Movie practiced with outside of his team, if anybody? I'm curious if he got Really to help him. If not, I'm guessing it went something like this:
Flash: So Really, fantasy and I were really impressed that you beat us like that. Stork and Jaedong were watching too, and they also thought you were awesome.
Really: Wow, thanks, I practiced hard, they were good games.
Flash: ...anyway, we'd love to practice a bunch with you in our little club a lot from now on, so we can all get better together. You know...it would be a real shame if it turned out that you were practicing with Movie this OSL, since we're such good friends now...
*a bit later*
Really: Oh hi, who is this? Movie? Oh, hi...uhm, yeah, actually...I've got to visit my sick grandmother. What, why am I online, then? Uhm...we brought her to the eSTRO house to take care of her. What? You're willing to come over here to practice? No no, that won't work, my grandma, she's, uhm, highly contagious...
EPT
