EPT[OSL] EVER OSL Semi-Final A: Flash vs Calm - Page 121
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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sh02hp0869
Sweden460 Posts
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Wangsta
United States776 Posts
both flash and calm used at least 3 different builds each in this series. 1rax CC is not a "build" its an opening, there are a billion variations. Same thing with 12 hatch (calm didnt even open hatch first in every game) also, calms muta micro was more or less perfect for the entire series. the reason why he misses shots is because flash micros his marines to constantly move back and forth. if calm commits to a guaranteed muta shot, he will for sure lose 1-2 mutas. instead, calm tries to predict when the marines will move forward, so that he can pop a shot and pull back early. this way, IF flash moves forward, he will get a shot off, otherwise the mutas dont shoot. flash is seriously playing like oov used to right now. he is taking unreasonable risks and defending them with his mental game rather than ingame units. compared to other terrans, his tvz is SO extremely fragile and he relies heavily on knowing exactly what his opponent is doing. he is able to push out earlier in tvz by having, quite literally, not enough defense against mutalisks. but he survives anyway by predicting where mutalisks will move and by preventing harass with scare tactics. as a zerg player, if you had a maphack you would rape flash with mutas/etc, but since you dont, u have no choice but to assume that its too dangerous to do certain things. | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
On January 02 2010 06:47 Wangsta wrote: this is an extremely good post and quite true.stop saying they used the same build every game... both flash and calm used at least 3 different builds each in this series. 1rax CC is not a "build" its an opening, there are a billion variations. Same thing with 12 hatch (calm didnt even open hatch first in every game) also, calms muta micro was more or less perfect for the entire series. the reason why he misses shots is because flash micros his marines to constantly move back and forth. if calm commits to a guaranteed muta shot, he will for sure lose 1-2 mutas. instead, calm tries to predict when the marines will move forward, so that he can pop a shot and pull back early. this way, IF flash moves forward, he will get a shot off, otherwise the mutas dont shoot. flash is seriously playing like oov used to right now. he is taking unreasonable risks and defending them with his mental game rather than ingame units. compared to other terrans, his tvz is SO extremely fragile and he relies heavily on knowing exactly what his opponent is doing. he is able to push out earlier in tvz by having, quite literally, not enough defense against mutalisks. but he survives anyway by predicting where mutalisks will move and by preventing harass with scare tactics. as a zerg player, if you had a maphack you would rape flash with mutas/etc, but since you dont, u have no choice but to assume that its too dangerous to do certain things. calm's muta micro was extremely good, but flash's mnm micro forced calm's mutas to stall and take shots from his infantry. | ||
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FireGuyX
United States1712 Posts
On January 02 2010 01:45 StorkHwaiting wrote: /facepalm. You have now lost any credibility you might once have had dude. Yes, a dragoon hanbang is now the "Movie build." Nobody has ever done a dragoon hanbang in PvZ before Movie lol. Same with killing mutas with archon. Movie's just inventing all this shit on his own! Yes I got owned over an obvious Stork fanboy *sarcasm*. The point is I think Stork sometimes show why PvZ is his weakest matchup, I think Movie's chances of beating Shine are much higher because his micro recently is proven to be much better. The way he macroed against zero expanding to 5 bases on Eye of the Storm, than teching to dts, zealots, and corsairs at the same time is something you rarely see now a days. The announcers were even calling Movie the next Bisu for a reason. Now do you still believe Stork has better PvZ than Movie? Maybe I would respect you more if you didn't post like a trollish Stork fanboy. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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mrgerry
United States1508 Posts
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yes9111
United States420 Posts
Thought Calm stood a chance after game 2. and then facepalmed when I saw Calm make Ultras while knowing Flash was turtling with tanks. Calm should listen to Day9 =D | ||
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Ideas
United States8167 Posts
On January 02 2010 10:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: In game 1, Calm seemed to be all-in with 2 hatch muta. He put up a 3rd at some point but it was really too late to make a transition. The harass did a fair amount of damage but not enough for a 2 base zerg to beat a 2 base terran. Game 3, Calm made guardians. Guardians suck. Two wraiths > any amount of Guardians. They are super slow, which means they give no map control, which allowed Flash to grab the bottom right. The usual challenge in grabbing half the map for a Terran against a Zerg is Zerg's superior mobility, but that mobility is gonna be AWOL for a wide timing window when supply gets tied up in Guardians. the guardians actually looked like they were going to work out pretty well because he had 2 scourge nearby and 6 more coming. unfortunately for calm flash pulled out a really sick move by sniping the scourge on their way over. Honestly only now do I realize how sick that was. Just once I'd like to see a progamer use guardians to guard something instead of try to attack a natural and die to wraiths. | ||
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bluetrolls
United States139 Posts
 Flash has stomped this season 4 out of 5 top zergs in BoXs,  EffOrt in WCG, Jaedong in OSL, ZerO in MSL and Calm in OSL, plus the win against Kwanro in OSL groups. | ||
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Ideas
United States8167 Posts
On January 02 2010 12:25 bluetrolls wrote: Fun fact: Flash has stomped this season 4 out of 5 top zergs in BoXs, EffOrt in WCG, Jaedong in OSL, ZerO in MSL and Calm in OSL, plus the win against Kwanro in OSL groups. I'd say WCG 2009 is more of last season than this season. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On January 02 2010 12:25 bluetrolls wrote: Fun fact: Flash has stomped this season 4 out of 5 top zergs in BoXs, EffOrt in WCG, Jaedong in OSL, ZerO in MSL and Calm in OSL, plus the win against Kwanro in OSL groups. yup. i had already written something similar in the "how to beat flash"-thread  | ||
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dongfeng
731 Posts
calms mutas didnt do that great BECAUSE flash's anti muta micro was so sick, he even mentioned in the interview that he focused specifically on anti muta micro nice series anyway, and the guards would have worked 3rd game if the scourge had gotten there, i thought it was a good play by calm except flash moved his rines to intercept -_- | ||
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fangslayer
Canada4 Posts
On January 02 2010 06:47 Wangsta wrote: stop saying they used the same build every game... both flash and calm used at least 3 different builds each in this series. 1rax CC is not a "build" its an opening, there are a billion variations. Same thing with 12 hatch (calm didnt even open hatch first in every game) also, calms muta micro was more or less perfect for the entire series. the reason why he misses shots is because flash micros his marines to constantly move back and forth. if calm commits to a guaranteed muta shot, he will for sure lose 1-2 mutas. instead, calm tries to predict when the marines will move forward, so that he can pop a shot and pull back early. this way, IF flash moves forward, he will get a shot off, otherwise the mutas dont shoot. flash is seriously playing like oov used to right now. he is taking unreasonable risks and defending them with his mental game rather than ingame units. compared to other terrans, his tvz is SO extremely fragile and he relies heavily on knowing exactly what his opponent is doing. he is able to push out earlier in tvz by having, quite literally, not enough defense against mutalisks. but he survives anyway by predicting where mutalisks will move and by preventing harass with scare tactics. as a zerg player, if you had a maphack you would rape flash with mutas/etc, but since you dont, u have no choice but to assume that its too dangerous to do certain things. Yeah, completely agree with you there. I've gotta give FlaSh props for taking those risks. Really means hes got a lot of confidence in him right now. It also goes to show how good his game sense is, as hes basically putting his whole match on the line with his risks. Anyways, way to go FlaSh =D | ||
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Sadist
United States7327 Posts
On January 02 2010 06:47 Wangsta wrote: stop saying they used the same build every game... both flash and calm used at least 3 different builds each in this series. 1rax CC is not a "build" its an opening, there are a billion variations. Same thing with 12 hatch (calm didnt even open hatch first in every game) also, calms muta micro was more or less perfect for the entire series. the reason why he misses shots is because flash micros his marines to constantly move back and forth. if calm commits to a guaranteed muta shot, he will for sure lose 1-2 mutas. instead, calm tries to predict when the marines will move forward, so that he can pop a shot and pull back early. this way, IF flash moves forward, he will get a shot off, otherwise the mutas dont shoot. flash is seriously playing like oov used to right now. he is taking unreasonable risks and defending them with his mental game rather than ingame units. compared to other terrans, his tvz is SO extremely fragile and he relies heavily on knowing exactly what his opponent is doing. he is able to push out earlier in tvz by having, quite literally, not enough defense against mutalisks. but he survives anyway by predicting where mutalisks will move and by preventing harass with scare tactics. as a zerg player, if you had a maphack you would rape flash with mutas/etc, but since you dont, u have no choice but to assume that its too dangerous to do certain things. i dont really think they are risks unless the zerg goes all in 2 hatch muta. If they dont defend the initial marines with their mutas they either lose an expo or their main. Ret was talking about how korean terrans started going 4 rax vs 2 hatch muta with like 1 turret at each base and just constantly rallying to the center. You could beat what flash does if you go sunks at your main or something. But then if you do that and he stays home you are fucked. The zergs ARE afraid to engage him with their mutas it seems though, even when the marines dont have range. Im not really sure what the deal is. They dont go snipe his reinforcements either they just kinda sit there and take it. From personal experience its incredibly easy to lose that first group of marines to 2 hatch muta and if that happens you are basically dead. Hes living on the edge but you could say zergs do the same thing with their muta micro all the time (except that it really has no counter if done properly) | ||
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zenkicker
257 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
that being said movie has a MUCH better chance of topping flash than shine. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On January 02 2010 05:35 Ideas wrote: Seems like EVERY zerg just doesnt know how to deal with this mass siege tank in the game strategy that terrans are using lately. well thats like saying that terran doesnt know how to deal with it when p has >half map 40 gates and 2 star arb theres not a really good way to deal with it, if z lets t secure another main and maintain some center presence theyre in trouble. | ||
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