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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 03 2021 04:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean, nobody is gonna ban you for using it in ladder, but I'm gonna consider you a cheater, and I'm gonna think that whatever mmr or win % you achieve is not legitimate, and if you did it against me in a practice game, I wouldn't bother playing with you again. I think that's a fairly common point of view. It is also banned in tournaments. Just because blizzard is too incompetent or ignorant or not caring to fix it doesn't mean it's okay.
Also, flying scv bug is a game-breaking bug. This is something that somewhat influences pvp and hardly matters at all for other matchups. Both being cheating doesn't mean both are equally important to address.
well that's okay because people already say others don't deserve X mmr because of the race they play, or the cheese they do, things like this. so your opinion is in the same vein as those guys to me. but to label me the same thing people call a maphacker is overkill.
its like if you are married and do some mild flirting with another woman for a few minutes then go on your way and never see her again. is that cheating? many people think so but it's not the same as if you inserted yourself inside her.
i would much rather you call me an asshole than a cheater.
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On November 03 2021 05:22 confusedzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 04:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean, nobody is gonna ban you for using it in ladder, but I'm gonna consider you a cheater, and I'm gonna think that whatever mmr or win % you achieve is not legitimate, and if you did it against me in a practice game, I wouldn't bother playing with you again. I think that's a fairly common point of view. It is also banned in tournaments. Just because blizzard is too incompetent or ignorant or not caring to fix it doesn't mean it's okay.
Also, flying scv bug is a game-breaking bug. This is something that somewhat influences pvp and hardly matters at all for other matchups. Both being cheating doesn't mean both are equally important to address. well that's okay because people already say others don't deserve X mmr because of the race they play, or the cheese they do, things like this. so your opinion is in the same vein as those guys to me. but to label me the same thing people call a maphacker is overkill. its like if you are married and do some mild flirting with another woman for a few minutes then go on your way and never see her again. is that cheating? many people think so but it's not the same as if you inserted yourself inside her. i would much rather you call me an asshole than a cheater.
I would much rather that you shut up and think rather than post more but life is what it is.
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On November 03 2021 05:22 confusedzerg wrote:
some mild flirting with another woman for a few minutes
This gave me the chuckles, thank you. I just wanna know what is coincided mild flirting in the region where you reside.
More to the point, I'd chime in with the general advice that once you realize you're up against that safe build, it's just best to play it safe yourself, expand with your reaver. Luckily for you there's plenty of games where pros do that to each other, I see it daily on streams as well. Just watch and see how they react, then try to copy.
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On November 03 2021 04:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean, nobody is gonna ban you for using it in ladder, but I'm gonna consider you a cheater, and I'm gonna think that whatever mmr or win % you achieve is not legitimate, and if you did it against me in a practice game, I wouldn't bother playing with you again. I think that's a fairly common point of view. It is also banned in tournaments. Just because blizzard is too incompetent or ignorant or not caring to fix it doesn't mean it's okay.
Also, flying scv bug is a game-breaking bug. This is something that somewhat influences pvp and hardly matters at all for other matchups. Both being cheating doesn't mean both are equally important to address.
strong quote
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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 03 2021 20:02 JoinTheRain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 05:22 confusedzerg wrote:
some mild flirting with another woman for a few minutes This gave me the chuckles, thank you. I just wanna know what is coincided mild flirting in the region where you reside. More to the point, I'd chime in with the general advice that once you realize you're up against that safe build, it's just best to play it safe yourself, expand with your reaver. Luckily for you there's plenty of games where pros do that to each other, I see it daily on streams as well. Just watch and see how they react, then try to copy.
if you say "you are pretty" and she goes "thank you you are handsome" and then you nod and go about your lives separately.
does someone who does this deserve the same label as someone who attends brothel?
and mr. jealous i will never stop posting my friend. luckily you dont have to read my posts.
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On November 03 2021 03:56 confusedzerg wrote:
i think you are just Jealous.
you know what else is socially derided? cheesing. are you going to say that is cheating too?
It is more like playing football with your friends, using your hands to interact with a ball, denying you did it as there was no official judge around to punish you, insist that you didnt do it while doing it over and over. Outcome - you play "better" but everyone hates you and doesn't want to play with you.
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 On November 03 2021 03:50 confusedzerg wrote:
yes, and before someone says it, blizzard outright said flying scv is cheating. they have not said this for shift right click geyser. so thats not a valid comparison
'Blizzard' (at this point probably a part-time intern) doesn't even know about this bug I bet.
Even when the game was played at a much more serious pro scene, they weren't aware of crashing happening with the hatchery bug, months after it appeared. so yeah..
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Well if these things weren't "illegal" in the past, Blizzard would've seen that this was an issue that needed fixing.
Instead it was banned and thus you hindered the development of the game. Ever think of that?!?!
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Blizzard if I remember correctly has acknowledged this bug but can't fix it without completely reworking worker pathing which would mess with a lot of other stuff that is fair. Considering how few, if any, blizzard has working on this game its not worth the effort. Its just a lot easier if people don't abuse this glitch in competetive play rather than they instead mess with worker collision management that would make the gaming experience worse for everyone.
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On November 04 2021 20:45 Jumperer wrote:
This isn't comparable to someone complaining about cheesing or playing an easier race like protoss, this is just straight up cheating.
I agree with everything you said up to this point.
It isn't cheating just because a tournament host said so.
There are a lot of bugs in this game are allowed.
Glitching through minerals/buildings with vulture mines, burrowed zerglings etc.
What about muta stacking? It's not cheating on the ladder just because it is in tournaments.
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Thank you everyone!
You've all been really helpful. I tried 1 gate robo reaver nexus + battery and it worked well.
I could expand before the 3 gate obs, so I think it is fine.
Now the problem is that the enemy will contain me with his goon superiority.
Is there a right moment to push out? perhaps with 2 reavers+shuttle?
Any advice is welcomed.
Thank you again!
Ps. I also consider that glitching the probe to go up a ramp is bad manners. Don't worry I won't do that 
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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 04 2021 20:45 Jumperer wrote:
The random bus driver once told me, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should"
obviously there's moral gray area in everything. not many people would consider harmless flirting as cheating. In contrast, The majority of the population would consider sex with another woman as cheating.
Now this gaysers shift click trick, it's banned in all competitive tournaments and anyone who does it is looked down upon ever since the beginning of time because one is abusing a glitch in the game to get an advantage. Most competitive gaming communities have create rules to ban things such as wobbling in ssbm. This trick should be banned on ladder, but it isn't, because blizzard doesn't care, but as the random bus driver once said "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." You'll never be good at proper PvP, no one will plays with you. All you have is a slightly higher mmr than what you should be. This isn't comparable to someone complaining about cheesing or playing an easier race like protoss, this is just straight up cheating.
in russia we have a saying.
a man approaches the doctor and says "doctor, my anus hurts", and the doctor asks, "where exactly?"
the man replies "at the entrance", and the doctor replies, "well it will hurt as long as you call it the entrance".
you can simply get vision of your opponent minerals with initial probe, shift right click new probe from your main somewhere in the middle of the map, then shift right click on his mineral. it create the same effect and zero difference. it is the same thing either way, the only "advantage" being you get to control when exactly you enter with the gas trick but that hardly matters. you can also use return cargo glitch, i have seen in ASL so must not be banned.
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If one tournament would ban it and all the others would not, than it would be really hard to call it cheating.
But the gas glitch is forbidden in all the tournaments. It was also in the ICcup rules for laddering. Just Blizzard is behind in that.
So if you use it, you are a cheater!
On November 04 2021 23:54 sanelicv wrote:Thank you everyone! You've all been really helpful. I tried 1 gate robo reaver nexus + battery and it worked well. I could expand before the 3 gate obs, so I think it is fine. Now the problem is that the enemy will contain me with his goon superiority. Is there a right moment to push out? perhaps with 2 reavers+shuttle? Any advice is welcomed. Thank you again! Ps. I also consider that glitching the probe to go up a ramp is bad manners. Don't worry I won't do that
Good for you.
PvP contains are good when there are reavers from bought sides. Otherwise escaping should not be too hard. Generally in this situations zealots are easyer to control than goons. Of course you had to have bought, and put zealots in front.
Keep in mind that as you are alredy expanded you do not need to brake the contain so fast. Expeccialy if your opponent expandend later than you. Because it means that you should catch up in units count.
The only big error you can do is not being patient and try to break too early. Also pay attention that if you go harass with shuttle and 2 reavers than you have 2 less reavers at your natural and you might end beeing busted.
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Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 05 2021 00:26 Jumperer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2021 00:18 confusedzerg wrote:On November 04 2021 20:45 Jumperer wrote:
The random bus driver once told me, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should"
obviously there's moral gray area in everything. not many people would consider harmless flirting as cheating. In contrast, The majority of the population would consider sex with another woman as cheating.
Now this gaysers shift click trick, it's banned in all competitive tournaments and anyone who does it is looked down upon ever since the beginning of time because one is abusing a glitch in the game to get an advantage. Most competitive gaming communities have create rules to ban things such as wobbling in ssbm. This trick should be banned on ladder, but it isn't, because blizzard doesn't care, but as the random bus driver once said "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." You'll never be good at proper PvP, no one will plays with you. All you have is a slightly higher mmr than what you should be. This isn't comparable to someone complaining about cheesing or playing an easier race like protoss, this is just straight up cheating. in russia we have a saying. a man approaches the doctor and says "doctor, my anus hurts", and the doctor asks, "where exactly?" the man replies "at the entrance", and the doctor replies, "well it will hurt as long as you call it the entrance". you can simply get vision of your opponent minerals with initial probe, shift right click new probe from your main somewhere in the middle of the map, then shift right click on his mineral. it create the same effect and zero difference. it is the same thing either way, the only "advantage" being you get to control when exactly you enter with the gas trick but that hardly matters. you can also use return cargo glitch, i have seen in ASL so must not be banned. it creates the same effect but one requires you to have an initial vision of your opponent's mineral patches to start with, which makes it acceptable. The geyser gas trick you literally just run up the ramp for free. It is not the same. Everyone knows about the return cargo glitch, but we are talking about the specific case of glitching movement via geysers gas trick to get free scouting every single game.
return cargo can do same thing if you spam and right click it through their units, i will use this then because ppl think thats okay when it same
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When it comes to glitches that can give an unfair advantage, my take is rather simple:
If you think its ok that you use it, it should also be ok if other people use it against you.
If people dont want it to be used against them, they should not use it themselves.
Then, you have the socially acceptable norms. There is a reason it is not allowed in tournaments (because its considered unfair) and its not banable in ladder (because there is noone who cares about ladder who could do something about it).
5 year olds know when someone is using an unfair advantage in a game, its not like you need to be a rocket scientist to know if something is unfair or not.
We selectively choose to ignore them sometimes in different aspects of our lives, but that does not mean we cant see them (we just BS ourselves into rationalizing why this time its "not that bad").
There are 3 reason I see why NOT TO use these however:
1. People tend to dislike others that do this. In the long term, that hurts everyone.
2. You will learn less and become worse as a player by having an unfair advantage.
3. A lot of the enjoyment of Broodwar comes from the hard work it takes to get good enough to win against people who were better than you before. A large portion of that pleasure come from the struggle it takes to get there. Not gonna be there if you have an unfair advantage.
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How about that total recall bug? Won’t that also make people pissed, give you an unfair advantage etc?
Some people claim it makes PvT unplayable and unfair, but as far as I know it’s not banned in any tournaments.
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On November 05 2021 21:01 Timebon3s wrote:
How about that total recall bug? Won’t that also make people pissed, give you an unfair advantage etc?
Some people claim it makes PvT unplayable and unfair, but as far as I know it’s not banned in any tournaments.
That's because it hasn't actually impacted tournament play enough for it to be banned? Whereas this has been banned for ages and there were already controversial moments where it was suspected that someone used it and it had to be proven that they didn't because it potentially changed the outcome of the game?
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EPT
