EPTOr is the ladder just for S ranked players and they get to dictate right and wrong?
PvP advice for noob - Page 3
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
Or is the ladder just for S ranked players and they get to dictate right and wrong? | ||
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Bonyth
Poland598 Posts
It all comes down to social and statistical acceptance. | ||
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Jealous
10313 Posts
On November 05 2021 21:20 Timebon3s wrote: Doesnt really matter though since its obviously taking an advantage of something thats not intended. Just because its not banned in tournaments YET doesnt mean it wont ruin the game of lower rankes players on the ladder. Or is the ladder just for S ranked players and they get to dictate right and wrong? The competitive scene follows the modalities and standards of the upper echelons of the competitive scene. If every noob had a say in tournament, ladder, and general play, we'd all be forced to play 3v3 Fastest with no rush 10 minutes right now. But, because we have highly skilled players and (had) informed overseers for the competitive scene, a common set of standards had been reached and enforced based on the highest level of play, which shows what is broken and what is not, what should be allowed or not, and what can be overcome with skill or not. So, in short, yes - the rules don't cater to scrubs, nor should they. If there is something you are struggling against in low level play that isn't banned in high level play, the solution is to get good. That simple. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
On November 05 2021 21:21 Bonyth wrote: What is this fuss all about. Is the gas trick illegal on ladder? It's not. Will most people look down on you if they see you using it? Yes. If you are okay with being labelled as a cheater and have no moral problems using it, go ahead. It all comes down to social and statistical acceptance. I don't think social acceptance is important for the 50% of the player base that names themselves |||||||||||||| | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
On November 05 2021 21:38 Jealous wrote: The competitive scene follows the modalities and standards of the upper echelons of the competitive scene. If every noob had a say in tournament, ladder, and general play, we'd all be forced to play 3v3 Fastest with no rush 10 minutes right now. But, because we have highly skilled players and (had) informed overseers for the competitive scene, a common set of standards had been reached and enforced based on the highest level of play, which shows what is broken and what is not, what should be allowed or not, and what can be overcome with skill or not. So, in short, yes - the rules don't cater to scrubs, nor should they. If there is something you are struggling against in low level play that isn't banned in high level play, the solution is to get good. That simple. In tournaments, yes. On the ladder which is accessible for everyone who purchased bw remastered, no. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28786 Posts
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
In the famous words of Nony: “We can play PvP or we can flip a coin” Now that your opponent can see what you’re doing for 10 seconds, pvp can be more a game of Starcraft instead of taking stupid risks like 3 gate goon no observer. This, just like any other bug in Starcraft, is something the ladder meta has to account for. | ||
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Jealous
10313 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/januaryfacepalm.jpg) | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 06 2021 01:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: What this does is basically, you pay 50 minerals to turn on maphack for 10 seconds during a crucial period of pvp. It's not as bad as maphacking all the time every game (you won't get banned from the ladder doing that either), but it's much worse than not doing it at all. you can target the probe. you say maphack? you also can shift click that is not banned. you always initial scout probe anyway. or use return cargo to bounce up the units which is same thing. | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 05 2021 21:21 Bonyth wrote: What is this fuss all about. Is the gas trick illegal on ladder? It's not. Will most people look down on you if they see you using it? Yes. If you are okay with being labelled as a cheater and have no moral problems using it, go ahead. It all comes down to social and statistical acceptance. if i want social acceptance i play league of legends and steal your pierogi. i do neither. also you will not have social acceptance if you proxy gate every game. "cheeser" "cheater" potato potato. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On November 06 2021 02:19 Timebon3s wrote: And that can be a good thing. In the famous words of Nony: “We can play PvP or we can flip a coin” Now that your opponent can see what you’re doing for 10 seconds, pvp can be more a game of Starcraft instead of taking stupid risks like 3 gate goon no observer. This, just like any other bug in Starcraft, is something the ladder meta has to account for. Oh please not this kind of nonsense. Rain, Stork and Flash while randoming have very much shown that PvP is not a coinflip at all. How come a thread where someone ask help turns into this? | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
also flash did gamble builds in his pvps. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
On November 06 2021 05:02 whaski wrote: Oh please not this kind of nonsense. Rain, Stork and Flash while randoming have very much shown that PvP is not a coinflip at all. How come a thread where someone ask help turns into this? Think I saw some ASL games where one of the P's just had to GG because DT's ran into his base. Doesn't matter if you're the best protoss in the world, you can still be at a disadvantage in PvP if your opponent skips observers and you didnt go dts. | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
sometimes, you want to see how a specific build will do against anything beside DT because that's just a risk you're willing to take with it. or maybe you want try a slightly greedy build that would be great provided the opponent wasn't 4gating, so you want practice for it. you can ask practice partner not to do this, but not peru on ladder. | ||
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chillzzz
30 Posts
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28786 Posts
'I only turn on my maphack the first 2 minutes of the game in tvz games on 4 player maps, to see whether the zerg is a cheesing 9pooler' 'I only turn on my maphack during the period where I'm blind in tvt games because it sucks when they're doing a cheesy 2 starport' 'I only turn on my maphack during the beginning of pvz games on 4 player maps, to see whether I can get away with nexus before cannon' 'I only turn on my maphack against zergs who go 973, so I can see how many hydras they are building, so I don't overmake cannons for nothing' 'I only turn on my maphack early on in zvz, so I don't end up going hatch first vs 9pool' Brood war is a game of incomplete information. Mind games revolving around exploiting your opponent being blind for a certain period of time is and has always been a big part of the game. There's nothing unique about pvp in this regard - you're only really susceptible to dying against dt rushes if you are trying to be a gambling player yourself. Going robo first every game is absolutely viable - especially in ladder. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
I can say it’s an incomplete game, where a lot of bugs exist and the meta has evolved around clever use of game mechanics. Like muta micro, worker glitching, vultures glitching through buildings with spider mines, hold lurker, “total recall”, burrowing lings on top of each other and glitch them into bases etc etc. There are even maps designed for abusing bugs, like Monty Hall and outsider. It’s not up to tournament hosts to decide what goes or not on the public ladder. Either everything goes or nothing goes, and if it really is detrimental to the gameplay, blizzard will fix it, like they did to flying scv. Just because it’s illegal in tournaments, people haven’t bothered to find a way to play around it, and you just assume it can’t be beaten becuz no1 ever tried, which is a lazy and whiny approach to it IMO. | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 06 2021 16:45 chillzzz wrote: People who try to justify using the geyser waypoint worker walk up ramp then also need to justify using flying scvs (pre-patch) and geyser waypoint attacking with mass workers. They don't require third party programs, are all banned from tournaments and condemned by the community at large. two issue with what you say my friend 1. flying scv new glitch with only sc remaster 2. blizzard said flying scv is banned. now, mr. drone, you cannot compare using third party cheat to walking up ramp with probe. i think you are perhaps being Disingenuous, yes? | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 06 2021 19:45 Jumperer wrote: I changed my mind, I agree with confusedzerg and Timebon3s now. It's time to stop the tyranny of these broodwar elitists and let the game be played the way it was supposed to be played. These people think they can make all the rules to prevent us lower classes from rising up to their level. What's the differences between people like flash bisu jaedong and people like confusedzerg and Timebon3s? Why do they get to dictate all the rules? This is an act of oppression. I skip observer every game why the hell should I risk losing an entire game to 1 stupid unit DT build. There are many other things besides dt that can end game instantly solely based off opener. so all you have to do is go geyser trick to prevent one like this. Mr. Gorbachev, It's time to tear down the wall. It's time to make geyser gas trick legal TO MAKE STARCRAFT GREAT AGAIN. please no talking about gorbachev my friend... | ||
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