EPTReach vs Chojja ... don't remember when
yeah, DA are freaking powerful lategame pvz in air battles.
and yeah, nice bump. I guess nobody read the topic actually :-P
Dark Archon Spells - Page 5
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
Reach vs Chojja ... don't remember when yeah, DA are freaking powerful lategame pvz in air battles. and yeah, nice bump. I guess nobody read the topic actually :-P | ||
|
pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
not everyone has 300apm and can click on the exact unit that they want to use the spells on. if you miss damn thats a big investment gone down the drain =( but yes i agree that at certain times and circumstances the DA can turn the tide | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23340 Posts
| ||
|
ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On June 19 2007 16:08 Slayer91 wrote: You need 1 apm to click on the right unit. i agree, it's not so much a question of apm, but of accuracy, the sort which comes from playing the 1a2a3a micro game a million times, or just massgaming and practicing storming the group of mutas instead of the stragglers. i've played people with ~300 apm who cant storm for shit, and people with ~150 who can shred hydralisk armies with Reachlike precision. It's not APM that defines the effectiveness of your casting, but the ability to know when and where to use the spell. | ||
|
sOra
Canada29 Posts
On August 03 2005 23:03 OverTheUnder wrote: One or two DAs in probably any Matchup would be worth it but ppl in general don't incoperate it into their play cause it makes their over all preformance worse. Pros would probably do it more to but while learning to use DAs more, they would probably get worse since they already have so much to remember and that is something they can't even afford to happen for a little bit. That's just what i think;D I'm pretty sure the pros know how to use DA's and people dont incorperate it into there strategys cuz they are stupid/dont have time/dont even think about it...DA's are one of the best units ever!!!!!!! if every toss player used DA's in there pvz they shouldnt lose a single game thats how badass they are | ||
|
Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
Is there a name for using one or two DAs of your own to chain MC your opponent's massed DAs? I don't understand how this (recent Chalrenge vs. TheRock Proleague) turned into a draw: How can you have a big resource advantage against an opponent defending with mass DAs and not manage to chain MC them sooner or later? You'd think you'd mass-hallucinate a lone DA, charge in to start the chain, keep an arbiter ready to recall if you want to quit when you're ahead, and generally experience more success than your opponent, wearing him down. | ||
|
XCetron
5226 Posts
And they keep stealing your obs or shoot it down. | ||
|
Chef
10810 Posts
You'd think you'd mass-hallucinate a lone DA, charge in to start the chain, keep an arbiter ready to recall if you want to quit when you're ahead, and generally experience more success than your opponent, wearing him down. That's an amazing idea, but try thinking of that in-game :S The idea that that could ever happen in a game is so out there that it probably just didn't cross his mind. | ||
|
Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On July 02 2007 20:21 XCetron wrote: Cause those arbs can be annoying since you dont see the DA. And they keep stealing your obs or shoot it down. So... mass-hallucinated scouts to eliminate the arbiters? Mass-hallucinated DAs and feedback the lead arbiter? Rush up lots of observers along with your mass-hallucinations so you can MC or feedback his DAs? How about reavers? Make one scarab at a time for them, if they get MC'd, it doesn't help him (no minerals), and it puts one of his DAs out of commission for a while. They can hang some damage on almost anything of his before they get their own hits in. Mass-hallucinated mass arbiters, and stasis all of his units? If your opponent's out of cash and hiding in a corner, and you own the map with money to spare, there has got to be a way to win it, no matter what units he has. | ||
|
EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
You'd think you'd mass-hallucinate a lone DA, charge in to start the chain, keep an arbiter ready to recall if you want to quit when you're ahead, and generally experience more success than your opponent, wearing him down. Actually try doing that in the game, you will find that mind-controlled DA's have their energy reset to zero the moment they are captured. I learned of this fact while playing a certain 1v1 micro map with a pvp round where each side has a DA. It SEEMED like a good strategy to MC the opponent's DA and then use it to MC the reaver/shuttle. Unfortunately, chain MC doesn't actually work. [TheoryCraft] As for the viability of taking race with MC, I think the 1200/900 or so you need to MC drone and tech to lurker vs Z is affordable in the very late game (25+ minutes) and easily pays itself back. Basically 3-4 lurkers will defend an expo cannon farm (or an army) against ANY amount of lings, swarm or no swarm. They free up reavers for offensive use, instead of being tied up to defending your cannon fields. Most importantly they are a way to cheat past the 200 psi limit, and are extremely useful even at 0/0 upgrades. You could argue that if you have the economy to worry about reavers and limit you're winning anyway, but this isn't always the case. Though that's still a fringe case and mostly theorycraft. Pros don't practice it because it is a move they will be able to use maybe 2-3% of their PvZ games. MC vs terran scv could be used to ensure a win or to force the terran to attack you in a hurry, hopefully in a tornado you could cast lots of storms against. Once you have tank/car in sufficient numbers, T won't be able to make any cost efficient attacks against you. Arbiter and ht make it even more strongly imbal, though they are unnecessary. Realistically, however, you will only pull this off if you're already way ahead in the game, or if the game progressed to a carr vs mass 3/3 gol "stalemate" with T having a strong economy, but by then you would be too exhausted to bother with MC. [/TheoryCraft] | ||
|
PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
On July 03 2007 06:11 EmS.Radagast wrote: Actually try doing that in the game, you will find that mind-controlled DA's have their energy reset to zero the moment they are captured. I learned of this fact while playing a certain 1v1 micro map with a pvp round where each side has a DA. It SEEMED like a good strategy to MC the opponent's DA and then use it to MC the reaver/shuttle. Unfortunately, chain MC doesn't actually work. uhm... this is true? sure it wasn't because of the ums map? | ||
|
EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
It doesn't make much sense though. There are like 30 rounds on that map, why would they go to such lengths to make a "fix" that will affect only a single round featuring DA's on both sides? | ||
|
pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
On June 19 2007 16:08 Slayer91 wrote: You need 1 apm to click on the right unit. We're not playing DOTA I guess you're assuming that the protoss player -doesnt- have 12 zealots 12 dragoons 3 high templars and perhaps 2 or 3 dark archons (maybe even more). If you're going to get darchons you'd probably get more than 1 mixed into your army and I would assume you not send your darchons 1 by 1 and this is when your apm comes in. | ||
RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On July 03 2007 06:11 EmS.Radagast wrote: Actually try doing that in the game, you will find that mind-controlled DA's have their energy reset to zero the moment they are captured. I learned of this fact while playing a certain 1v1 micro map with a pvp round where each side has a DA. It SEEMED like a good strategy to MC the opponent's DA and then use it to MC the reaver/shuttle. Unfortunately, chain MC doesn't actually work. [TheoryCraft] As for the viability of taking race with MC, I think the 1200/900 or so you need to MC drone and tech to lurker vs Z is affordable in the very late game (25+ minutes) and easily pays itself back. Basically 3-4 lurkers will defend an expo cannon farm (or an army) against ANY amount of lings, swarm or no swarm. They free up reavers for offensive use, instead of being tied up to defending your cannon fields. Most importantly they are a way to cheat past the 200 psi limit, and are extremely useful even at 0/0 upgrades. You could argue that if you have the economy to worry about reavers and limit you're winning anyway, but this isn't always the case. Though that's still a fringe case and mostly theorycraft. Pros don't practice it because it is a move they will be able to use maybe 2-3% of their PvZ games. MC vs terran scv could be used to ensure a win or to force the terran to attack you in a hurry, hopefully in a tornado you could cast lots of storms against. Once you have tank/car in sufficient numbers, T won't be able to make any cost efficient attacks against you. Arbiter and ht make it even more strongly imbal, though they are unnecessary. Realistically, however, you will only pull this off if you're already way ahead in the game, or if the game progressed to a carr vs mass 3/3 gol "stalemate" with T having a strong economy, but by then you would be too exhausted to bother with MC. [/TheoryCraft] i know what micro map you mean and you're wrong, even on that map it works | ||
|
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
But it's still hard convincing myself to waste that much gas on what might be a marginal return. I do think feedback is a bit underrated because of the cost of dark archons. MC and Maelstorm are mostly trash however (MC has a few obvious exceptions). | ||
|
MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
feedback is an incredibly useful ability. lets say you have your opponent contained in a pvp. Getting one DA and putting it in the front of your army is great in a position like this. When the contained protoss attempts to leave his base you can feedback all his templars before he storms you. Even after that the DA is bulky so you can micro it infront of your dragoons and other units. Good pvp users generally get arbiters late game since they can stasis your maxed out army. A few stasis's can totally mess up a maxed protoss. Having one DA quickly feedback your opponets arbiters allows you to then easily stasis everything he has. Otherwise you may end up having to stasis HIS arbiters and whatever is underneith (so you don't get stasised first) when you could have more viable stasis options. When two pvp players are maxed on a map like gaia and both players have half of the map, recall is commonly used to split his army. You can also put 1 DA in your main or 'most likely to recall' expo and then feedback any incomming arbiters that are likely to recall into your base, keep in mind feedback will kill hallucinated units... since it's only 50 mana you will most likely have enough energy to feedback the REAL unit. I'm done w/ my break at work! gtg! sorry for spelling errors... this comp has no spell checker x.x | ||
|
Mr.SeXpIsToLs
Germany103 Posts
| ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
had he built tanks instead of BCs he would have easily won | ||
|
Aux1
United States780 Posts
| ||
|
niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
Basically when people say maxed out protoss vs maxed out terran, its often a battle of like 130 vs 110 (i'd say toss usually has extra expo). So imagine u dont have any workers, u can have 200/200 pure Zeal/goon/templar. | ||
| ||
