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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
i know what micro map you mean and you're wrong, even on that map it works I went out of my way and made a UMS map where you have a DA with mind control researched, the computer has 12 DA's without MC, all DA's start with 200 energy. Guess what, you mind control one of them and you get it with zero energy. If you don't believe me, check it. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On July 03 2007 13:27 EmS.Radagast wrote: I went out of my way and made a UMS map where you have a DA with mind control researched, the computer has 12 DA's without MC, all DA's start with 200 energy. Guess what, you mind control one of them and you get it with zero energy. If you don't believe me, check it. Fair enough, my bad. Feedback is probably a better way to use a mass-hallucinated DA against DAs anyway, due to the range advantage. | ||
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
easiest way to do this is to get a shuttle with speed and drop a da in their base, steal the drone and leave asap. goto deep within your base. PvZ: If you can mind control a drone build go hatch, pool, lair, spire... get 2nd hatch whenever you have the extra money. Start massing up mutas and hide them. When you have about 12 surprise the zerg and start killing drones at the zergs expo. Force them to waist more drones making spore colonels. While this is going on upgrade a greater spire and get guardians and make a few corsairs (dweb if you can.) This makes things incredibly difficult on zerg, they'll have to start going for air units which means they wont be able to focus gas on ling/ultra/defiler. PvT: Hide SCV, make cc, rax, fac, fac, starport. mass up tanks. This will make pushing for terran almost impossible. Place a line of tanks where ever they will push towards and then start to mass produce more tanks and make dropships. Once you have a good tank line setup start going for carriers. Save your group of tanks and dropships for when the terran starts to be aggressive... counter drop at their expo. PvP: Steal carriers ; ) otherwise don't use this. | ||
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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
 PvZ I think lurkers are better than mutas. He can counter mutas with plague that late in the game, but he has nothing to stop lurkers. That's common sense, not speaking from experience | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
imagine though...cloaked tank push.... =) | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On July 03 2007 17:13 imBLIND wrote: screw shuttles, use some arbiters and recall the tanks ; ) imagine though...cloaked tank push.... =) Stealth tanks are the shit. | ||
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Hittegods
Stockholm4642 Posts
On July 03 2007 15:45 MyLostTemple wrote: spore colonels. I didn't think zerg units had military ranks? Much less their buildings. | ||
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On July 03 2007 17:13 imBLIND wrote: screw shuttles, use some arbiters and recall the tanks ; ) imagine though...cloaked tank push.... =) yeah that's good too, but i ment build terran dropships =]. at least that's what i do whenever i get in this position. but yeah... u CAN recall tanks in siege mode which is insanely awsome ; ) | ||
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HappyFeetO_O
China350 Posts
On July 03 2007 08:37 zer0das wrote: Personally I find feedback to be one of the single most useful skills. Against Terrans that think emp is cute, it's a godsend. Also used them against wraiths without cloak (or even with!), because if their mana is high then they die to feedback (used for cute drops where I feedback all the wraiths once they come to take out the templar >.>). Also the main guy I play against uses medics as impromtu walls, and dark archons can kill them all relatively quickly. But it's still hard convincing myself to waste that much gas on what might be a marginal return. I do think feedback is a bit underrated because of the cost of dark archons. MC and Maelstorm are mostly trash however (MC has a few obvious exceptions). Lol, using dark archons to take out medics in pvt ;p | ||
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On July 03 2007 17:00 EmS.Radagast wrote: By the way, you can put tanks in shuttles as well, shuttles are cheaper and faster if you grade them, no need for starport. Besides, recall on sieged tanks > all PvZ I think lurkers are better than mutas. He can counter mutas with plague that late in the game, but he has nothing to stop lurkers. That's common sense, not speaking from experience these are interesting points, but zergs are much more prepared to face a ground force early instead of an air force. Protoss basically have no cheap fast air to ground attacking units (scouts don't count, they're too expensive). Going mutalisks can completely throw a zerg off. Zergs generally do not have anti air prepared for something like 12 mutalisks, and if they are prepaired you can just use the mutalisks to fly in and kill scourge, then continue to storm drop the zerg using a shuttle. I don't see the advantages of getting lurkers over mutas in this case... Lurkers would be great for defense... but turtling against a zerg is never as good when you have the option of harassment. Technically, yes, plague could catch some mutas if the zerg was absolutely prepared... but even then, if you know what your doing, you should be able to run away again w/ plagued mutas and morph them into guards, this is good for defense AND offense. Gaurds could go over a zergs cliff and pick at drones and other things. The fast mutalisk is a healthy and highly aggressive opener that allows for drone picking, something absolutely vital to beat a zerg... you always want to be killing drones. Keep in mind zerg can only produce from larva, this means that every drone a zerg has to remake is an attacking unit they did not get to make. With this logic you should always be forcing zerg to remake drones so they get behind in the macro game. It's not that going lurkers is BAD necessarily, but i don't think highly skilled zerg players who know how to turtle would be troubled by lurkers. Also consider that Zergs utilize drop when both players are maxed. This way the zerg can split the p's army up. With mutalisks you can respond quickly to large drops regardless of their location on the map. In the rare cases i do get to mind control a zerg drone, i just always end up going for mutalisks and then getting high level zerg air units. P.S. your point about the shuttles was good, i actually didn't know you could pick up mind controlled terran units in a shuttle. Very interesting. GG ; ) Either way, it's good to get siege tanks early if you can MC a terran and then drop him in locations that hurt while you turtle in your base with tanks : ) | ||
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Antifate
United States415 Posts
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fig_newbie
749 Posts
On July 03 2007 19:11 Antifate wrote: Who builds medics TvP. >.> blinding obs, thats all i can really think of. does restoration work on stasis? | ||
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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
does restoration work on stasis? no, you can't target statised units with anything, restoration included | ||
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
On August 04 2005 09:43 GroT wrote: My point is that if you are going to build dark archons, you have to be doing it for a reason that really breaks the game for your opponent.. like when you maelstrom a control group of mutalisks early and then storm them all. Sadly, I don't even think it's possible to get both mael and storm so early.. if you found a build where you get both in time (i don't think it's possible, but just for argument's sake) that would be a great innovative play that could score you a lot of wins not less expensive but faster is mealstorming mutas and then sending an archon to splash them....someone posted that lately...guess you'll have an archon around in PvZ vs MutaLing | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
lol. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On July 03 2007 15:45 MyLostTemple wrote: Mind control is best used if you know the correct pattern to tech in. easiest way to do this is to get a shuttle with speed and drop a da in their base, steal the drone and leave asap. goto deep within your base. PvZ: If you can mind control a drone build go hatch, pool, lair, spire... get 2nd hatch whenever you have the extra money. Start massing up mutas and hide them. When you have about 12 surprise the zerg and start killing drones at the zergs expo. Force them to waist more drones making spore colonels. While this is going on upgrade a greater spire and get guardians and make a few corsairs (dweb if you can.) This makes things incredibly difficult on zerg, they'll have to start going for air units which means they wont be able to focus gas on ling/ultra/defiler. PvT: Hide SCV, make cc, rax, fac, fac, starport. mass up tanks. This will make pushing for terran almost impossible. Place a line of tanks where ever they will push towards and then start to mass produce more tanks and make dropships. Once you have a good tank line setup start going for carriers. Save your group of tanks and dropships for when the terran starts to be aggressive... counter drop at their expo. PvP: Steal carriers ; ) otherwise don't use this. thats the most useless plan ive ever heard. First of all since when can you just hide till you have massed 12 surprise mutas? No zerg is stupid enough to not scout the whole map vs p. Terrans scan a lot of times. Mindcontrol is great for getting dropships or carriers cruisers, but building up a new race is a retarded plan. I dont think you could pull it off against someone who has been playing starcraft for more than 1 year. If I used your logic I could easily say. Steal a drone build up a new base build 200/200 protoss units and 200/200 Zerg units = Instant win. Both theories are impossible to pull off in a game. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
I dont think you could pull it off against someone who has been playing starcraft for more than 1 year. If I used your logic I could easily say. Steal a drone build up a new base build 200/200 protoss units and 200/200 Zerg units = Instant win. Both theories are impossible to pull off in a game. I've actually calculated the cost of stealing lurker tech Cost 200/200 MC 250/200 DA 650/0 2 hatcheries 100/0 overlord 250/0 pool 150/50 hydra den 150/100 lair 200/200 aspect (can be stolen from Z, but nvm) -------------------------- 1950/750 Looks pretty bad, I guess you are right. It kinda sucks. | ||
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
I remember a games posted here TvP in R-Point where the P made factories and used recalled tanks on cliffs. Pretty nice. | ||
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