Dark Archon Spells

On August 03 2005 19:43 Empyrean wrote:
Feedbacking queens XD

On August 03 2005 19:58 IntoTheWow wrote:
maelstorming the zealot 1st front works also.

On August 03 2005 19:58 IntoTheWow wrote:
maelstorming the zealot 1st front works also.

On August 03 2005 19:56 GroT wrote:
feedbacking high templars in PvP is doable too I think.. not sure about that either

On August 03 2005 21:55 Echo wrote:
I believe the DA to be the most underestimated and underused unit in the game (save maybe the queen). Maelstrom and Mind Control are both awesome spells in there own way. There is no more cost effective combo than speed shuttle + mc da vs any race using top end units and Maelstrom vs ultra ling with dt archon/temp support is nearly unstoppable. People keep complain about a imbalance of ultra ling vs protoss army try using DAs PLEASE PEOPLE. Think about it...the defiliers are Ps greatest threat because they basically make archons 1/3rd as effective and can plague...which is awesome. But 1 feedback renders them useless. This combined with the ability to complete freeze a large group of ultras (and causing the auto ai to fry to lings instead) is sooo good when youre dealing with 3/3 cracklings. The DA is pretty much the sole key in changing the current z v p belief. Remember Grrr...'s game where he actually won vs a zerg with a huge economy and massive amounts of ultra ling. People should learn a lesson from that and should pretty much always be using das vs hive tech zerg with ultras.

On August 03 2005 19:42 Veg wrote:
race wars

On August 04 2005 00:04 oddeye wrote:
is there any use trying to MC ultralisk in PvZ?

On August 03 2005 19:40 oddeye wrote:
I've seen Maelstrom used in some PvZ. Saw some dark archon tos top carrier in PvP. But that pretty much it, is there any use for the dark archon?

On August 04 2005 00:26 Carnac wrote:

yeah there is, look:
http://home.mnet-online.de/Carnac/herimtoVSpltoman.rep

On August 04 2005 00:39 kP_cHoBo wrote:


Where did u see a dark archon top carriers in pvp?

On August 03 2005 21:33 Team liquidater wrote:
feedbacking science vessels pisses me off... same with mcing/fbing my medics ¬_¬

then there is the decoy thingy

my friend used to haluc DA and send em into my base with one true DA in the back, i would freak, drop what i was doing (upon seeing 20 DA stroll up to meh expo) and immedietly despence useless firepower on the halucs... in the end he would run off with a marine or something, but it always freaked me out O_o

On August 04 2005 08:56 GroT wrote:
some of you make it sound as if DA's render opposing spellcasters completely useless ( but obviously it isn't like that.. it's not like they will all get to cast nothing before being feedbacked)

also feedbacking wraiths? try to post something that could potentially ever be useful =[

On August 04 2005 10:22 Carnac wrote:
actually they are the only unit combining organical and mechanical (in bw terms) characteristics:
- lockdown works
- irridiate works
- maelstrom works
- broodling works
- they can be repaired and healed

On August 04 2005 00:39 kP_cHoBo wrote:


Where did u see a dark archon top carriers in pvp?

On August 04 2005 02:27 FireBlast! wrote:


Mycube OSL Semi final game 3 Reach vs Nal_rA
(Reach used the DA)

On August 04 2005 10:01 Holorin wrote:
in fact, Grot, FeedBack is very lethal to all spell casters because it outranges all spells (except parasite) so having your DA in a good place with aproximately same level players will always lead to feedback being cast first. so at least no spell cast by the other spell caster

On August 04 2005 16:46 LastWish wrote:
Feedback :
- never vs terran, vs wraiths it is logical to build corsairs since they are a natural anti-wraith unit

On August 05 2005 07:38 Sirakor wrote:


feedback BC!!!

On August 05 2005 07:38 Sirakor wrote:

feedback BC!!!

On August 04 2005 16:46 LastWish wrote:
...
Control :
- only heavy aircraft = carriers&battlecruisers, doubfully Ultras(or any zerg) since they are quite
cheap
...

On August 05 2005 05:23 GroT wrote:



that's a good point but it won't always be cast first.. the player who is moving his spellcaster in range of your DA is already active and controlling, but the DA controlling player has to notice the movement and react to it while he is probably off doing something else

On August 04 2005 00:04 oddeye wrote:
is there any use trying to MC ultralisk in PvZ?

On August 05 2005 12:47 Suicide wrote:


Not to mention the unless you keep DA in front of your army he can still storm them or swarm or whatever regardless, and DA are weak late game, as in they die easily, and they're practicly a big bullseye that says TARGET ME! being a huge red ball and all...

Mind Control: This is pretty useless if you ask me, everyone who talks about taking the other race is dumb. The costs of getting the other races tech and the long stretch of time that takes makes it a pretty risky and unproductive investment. DTs in 9/10 circumstances could be better used to harass opponents or units so that your carriers are given an advantage then to make them into a DA, wake for the 150 energy, and research the mind control spell, unless you start this right as he produces, he'll be faster and you'll be at a lower unit count until you catch up imo.

Feedback: No need to upgrade is a huge +, energy cheap nice +, PvP this is viable vs Zealot Goon Temp style builds since you can feedback, since late game the DTs would probably just die in an open confrontation, (Harass is still much better imo if its possible at all), but my guess would be that its not going to stop templar from getting storms off, and its going to be a waste.

Maelstorm: The Reedeeming factor of the DA. In my opinion vs Z maelstorm is highly viable since zerg is so open to it, and most tosses use DTs and will eventually not be able to harass as effectively with them, and researching this and making a DA will still produce results. And if you already have it, It would seem to allow for you to target the rare queen or defiler with feedback as a bonus. This would also redeem the use of DA's PvP since you could maelstorm zealots which is a big advantage if done correctly, and then feedback the HTs.

In my opinion, to sum up, DAs aren't used by pro players because they are not as immediate or cost effective as other means, such as building another unit, or harassing better with your DT, not to mention 3 attack DTs do quite a bit. Also most of their spells are useless except for Maelstorm, but maelstorm is quite good in its situations which allows you, to use feedback in even rarer situations, but when it is used it can be powerful as long as you keep in mind that DAs are weak and huge and carry a bullseye on their back.

=|

On August 07 2005 04:48 Madhouse wrote:
pvp island maps, i think it was Daaman who did this vs WhiZ on Dire Straits. Daaman mindcontrolled WhiZ shuttles and stole the units inside it aswell as forcing WhiZ to build more shuttles.

On August 07 2005 23:28 BlueStar wrote:
It's very good strat to use the dark archon's maelstrom vs devs guards and mutas in sair/reaver game - just take in the shuttles with u 1 or two archons - and it equals most of the time to GG

On June 19 2007 06:02 Brutalisk wrote:
Haven't read the thread. Just saying this:

DAs are very effective in late game PvZ, maelstrom + storm half of his army. Especially powerful when the game developed into a big air battle (devourer/muta vs. corsair/carrier). Maelstrom all devourers and storm them dead. Almost imbalanced.
Arbiters with stasis are helpful in PvZ too but they cost even more, that's why they are rarely seen there.

DAs are also very effective in a PvP middle to late game when the opponent goes all Carriers (mind control).

On June 19 2007 06:41 Aphelion wrote:
Lawl gtfo.

On June 19 2007 07:07 SuperJongMan wrote:
I'm going to start mind controlling ultralisks....
See what happens.

On June 19 2007 06:55 Brutalisk wrote:


Maybe you should.

On June 19 2007 16:08 Slayer91 wrote:
You need 1 apm to click on the right unit.

On August 03 2005 23:03 OverTheUnder wrote:
One or two DAs in probably any Matchup would be worth it but ppl in general don't incoperate it into their play cause it makes their over all preformance worse. Pros would probably do it more to but while learning to use DAs more, they would probably get worse since they already have so much to remember and that is something they can't even afford to happen for a little bit.

That's just what i think;D

You'd think you'd mass-hallucinate a lone DA, charge in to start the chain, keep an arbiter ready to recall if you want to quit when you're ahead, and generally experience more success than your opponent, wearing him down.

On July 02 2007 20:21 XCetron wrote:
Cause those arbs can be annoying since you dont see the DA.
And they keep stealing your obs or shoot it down.

You'd think you'd mass-hallucinate a lone DA, charge in to start the chain, keep an arbiter ready to recall if you want to quit when you're ahead, and generally experience more success than your opponent, wearing him down.

On July 03 2007 06:11 EmS.Radagast wrote:

Actually try doing that in the game, you will find that mind-controlled DA's have their energy reset to zero the moment they are captured.

I learned of this fact while playing a certain 1v1 micro map with a pvp round where each side has a DA. It SEEMED like a good strategy to MC the opponent's DA and then use it to MC the reaver/shuttle. Unfortunately, chain MC doesn't actually work.

On June 19 2007 16:08 Slayer91 wrote:
You need 1 apm to click on the right unit.

On July 03 2007 06:11 EmS.Radagast wrote:

Actually try doing that in the game, you will find that mind-controlled DA's have their energy reset to zero the moment they are captured.

I learned of this fact while playing a certain 1v1 micro map with a pvp round where each side has a DA. It SEEMED like a good strategy to MC the opponent's DA and then use it to MC the reaver/shuttle. Unfortunately, chain MC doesn't actually work.

[TheoryCraft]
As for the viability of taking race with MC, I think the 1200/900 or so you need to MC drone and tech to lurker vs Z is affordable in the very late game (25+ minutes) and easily pays itself back. Basically 3-4 lurkers will defend an expo cannon farm (or an army) against ANY amount of lings, swarm or no swarm. They free up reavers for offensive use, instead of being tied up to defending your cannon fields. Most importantly they are a way to cheat past the 200 psi limit, and are extremely useful even at 0/0 upgrades. You could argue that if you have the economy to worry about reavers and limit you're winning anyway, but this isn't always the case. Though that's still a fringe case and mostly theorycraft. Pros don't practice it because it is a move they will be able to use maybe 2-3% of their PvZ games.

MC vs terran scv could be used to ensure a win or to force the terran to attack you in a hurry, hopefully in a tornado you could cast lots of storms against. Once you have tank/car in sufficient numbers, T won't be able to make any cost efficient attacks against you. Arbiter and ht make it even more strongly imbal, though they are unnecessary. Realistically, however, you will only pull this off if you're already way ahead in the game, or if the game progressed to a carr vs mass 3/3 gol "stalemate" with T having a strong economy, but by then you would be too exhausted to bother with MC.

[/TheoryCraft]

i know what micro map you mean and you're wrong, even on that map it works

On July 03 2007 13:27 EmS.Radagast wrote:


I went out of my way and made a UMS map where you have a DA with mind control researched, the computer has 12 DA's without MC, all DA's start with 200 energy. Guess what, you mind control one of them and you get it with zero energy. If you don't believe me, check it.

On July 03 2007 17:13 imBLIND wrote:
screw shuttles, use some arbiters and recall the tanks ; )
imagine though...cloaked tank push.... =)

On July 03 2007 15:45 MyLostTemple wrote:
spore colonels.

On July 03 2007 17:13 imBLIND wrote:
screw shuttles, use some arbiters and recall the tanks ; )
imagine though...cloaked tank push.... =)

On July 03 2007 08:37 zer0das wrote:
Personally I find feedback to be one of the single most useful skills. Against Terrans that think emp is cute, it's a godsend. Also used them against wraiths without cloak (or even with!), because if their mana is high then they die to feedback (used for cute drops where I feedback all the wraiths once they come to take out the templar >.>). Also the main guy I play against uses medics as impromtu walls, and dark archons can kill them all relatively quickly.

But it's still hard convincing myself to waste that much gas on what might be a marginal return. I do think feedback is a bit underrated because of the cost of dark archons. MC and Maelstorm are mostly trash however (MC has a few obvious exceptions).

On July 03 2007 17:00 EmS.Radagast wrote:
By the way, you can put tanks in shuttles as well, shuttles are cheaper and faster if you grade them, no need for starport. Besides, recall on sieged tanks > all

PvZ I think lurkers are better than mutas. He can counter mutas with plague that late in the game, but he has nothing to stop lurkers. That's common sense, not speaking from experience

On July 03 2007 19:11 Antifate wrote:
Who builds medics TvP. >.>

does restoration work on stasis?

On August 04 2005 09:43 GroT wrote:
My point is that if you are going to build dark archons, you have to be doing it for a reason that really breaks the game for your opponent.. like when you maelstrom a control group of mutalisks early and then storm them all. Sadly, I don't even think it's possible to get both mael and storm so early.. if you found a build where you get both in time (i don't think it's possible, but just for argument's sake) that would be a great innovative play that could score you a lot of wins

On July 03 2007 15:45 MyLostTemple wrote:
Mind control is best used if you know the correct pattern to tech in.

easiest way to do this is to get a shuttle with speed and drop a da in their base, steal the drone and leave asap. goto deep within your base.

PvZ: If you can mind control a drone build go hatch, pool, lair, spire... get 2nd hatch whenever you have the extra money. Start massing up mutas and hide them. When you have about 12 surprise the zerg and start killing drones at the zergs expo. Force them to waist more drones making spore colonels. While this is going on upgrade a greater spire and get guardians and make a few corsairs (dweb if you can.) This makes things incredibly difficult on zerg, they'll have to start going for air units which means they wont be able to focus gas on ling/ultra/defiler.

PvT: Hide SCV, make cc, rax, fac, fac, starport. mass up tanks. This will make pushing for terran almost impossible. Place a line of tanks where ever they will push towards and then start to mass produce more tanks and make dropships. Once you have a good tank line setup start going for carriers. Save your group of tanks and dropships for when the terran starts to be aggressive... counter drop at their expo.

PvP: Steal carriers ; ) otherwise don't use this.

I dont think you could pull it off against someone who has been playing starcraft for more than 1 year. If I used your logic I could easily say. Steal a drone build up a new base build 200/200 protoss units and 200/200 Zerg units = Instant win. Both theories are impossible to pull off in a game.

On July 04 2007 07:25 Yuljan wrote:


thats the most useless plan ive ever heard. First of all since when can you just hide till you have massed 12 surprise mutas? No zerg is stupid enough to not scout the whole map vs p. Terrans scan a lot of times. Mindcontrol is great for getting dropships or carriers cruisers, but building up a new race is a retarded plan. I dont think you could pull it off against someone who has been playing starcraft for more than 1 year. If I used your logic I could easily say. Steal a drone build up a new base build 200/200 protoss units and 200/200 Zerg units = Instant win. Both theories are impossible to pull off in a game.