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Dark Archon Spells - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
August 03 2005 15:26 GMT
#21
On August 04 2005 00:04 oddeye wrote:
is there any use trying to MC ultralisk in PvZ?

yeah there is, look:
http://home.mnet-online.de/Carnac/herimtoVSpltoman.rep
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
kP_cHoBo
Profile Joined June 2004
United States439 Posts
August 03 2005 15:39 GMT
#22
On August 03 2005 19:40 oddeye wrote:
I've seen Maelstrom used in some PvZ. Saw some dark archon tos top carrier in PvP. But that pretty much it, is there any use for the dark archon?


Where did u see a dark archon top carriers in pvp?
Hello
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
August 03 2005 15:41 GMT
#23
it was an osl game on paradoxx
either ra or kingdom or sth
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
oddeye
Profile Joined March 2005
Canada716 Posts
August 03 2005 15:47 GMT
#24
On August 04 2005 00:26 Carnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2005 00:04 oddeye wrote:
is there any use trying to MC ultralisk in PvZ?

yeah there is, look:
http://home.mnet-online.de/Carnac/herimtoVSpltoman.rep

good replay but maybe zerg should have went hydra, but I guess maelstrom own hydra.
Your soul shall suffer!
Resonate
Profile Joined October 2002
United Kingdom8402 Posts
August 03 2005 16:35 GMT
#25
feedback cloaked wraiths
Memory lane in nice
FroST(TE)
Profile Joined September 2004
United States909 Posts
August 03 2005 17:17 GMT
#26
soo vs leg soo had da's feedbacking legs hts i think. eventually he used the da's to mc legs arbs iirc
PoorUser on LP
FireBlast!
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United Kingdom5251 Posts
August 03 2005 17:27 GMT
#27
On August 04 2005 00:39 kP_cHoBo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2005 19:40 oddeye wrote:
I've seen Maelstrom used in some PvZ. Saw some dark archon tos top carrier in PvP. But that pretty much it, is there any use for the dark archon?


Where did u see a dark archon top carriers in pvp?


Mycube OSL Semi final game 3 Reach vs Nal_rA
(Reach used the DA)
Victoria Concordia Crescit
Sirakor
Profile Joined April 2003
Great Britain455 Posts
August 03 2005 17:28 GMT
#28
maelstorm/psi vs zerg if your apm is up to it
lacking the apm, mind control ultras to soak damage
mind control arbiters, carriers, battle cruisers, science vessels, shuttles (+ content) far better than an instant kill spell... think about it
feed back battle cruisers (!!), science vessels, wraith, defiler, queen, etc...

i guess getting DA 'from scratch' in lategame is often expensive and slow, but if you have DT's left from earlier, and your opponent has detection anyways, they lose their effectiveness. Either drop them somewhere where there isnt detection yet, or turn them into DA's and research one of the spells...

Hans-Titan
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Denmark1711 Posts
August 03 2005 18:03 GMT
#29
MIND CONTROL: This is rarely a good spell to use, or even research, since chances are very slim it will be useful. If you wanna use it, mind controlling transports and expensive units (Ultras, BC's, Carriers, Arbs etc) is the best. You could also try mind controlling a drone/scv. Imagine recalling an ultra/ling/defiler army in the middle of your opponents base... *drool*

MAELSTROM: Useful for few things, it is certainly useful for those things. Mass Zerg air (Reachs maelstrom), and Ultras (Giyoms Maelstrom) is probably the best to use it for, even tho Maelstroming 10 lurkers mid game is useful as well... There isn't really any uses for it in PvT, and in PvP maelstroming Zeals is actually the only real thing to use it for.

FEEDBACK: What can I say? DIE spellcasters! HT's, defilers, queens, vessels - feedback 'em! One of the things its really useful for, is BC's - no Yamato gun, and up to 250 less hp of it! A shame BC's are so rarely used PvT...
Feedback them templars! If you have the control, getting rid of 4 templars, can really hurt your opponent.

BTW, Dark Archons are my favourite unit PvZ. So nice to see in use...!

Hope it helped!

Regds

Hans-Titan
Trying is the first step towards failure, and hope is the first step towards disappointment!
game.no
Profile Joined July 2005
Norway445 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-08-03 22:35:19
August 03 2005 22:34 GMT
#30
Against Zerg, you definitely want Dark Archons. Mind control, maelstrom can be used against all units and feedback will auto defilers.
Against Terran there is very little use for Dark Archons since maelstrom won't be of any use, most Terran go Factory build. There isn't really anything to mind control, maybe science vessels or stray tanks but that wouldn't be too useful against Terran and battlecruisers are rarely made. Feedback could be used against science vessels but that wouldn't really be harmful against the Terran since there isn't much a Science vessel can do against a protoss besides emp or maybe defense matrix, and wraiths are rarely used against protoss.
Against Protoss mind control would be somewhat more useful, against reavers or carriers or stray dragoons to add to your army, feedback against hightemplars is really useful and there's really very little use for maelstroms.

Dark Archons are a must against Zerg but anything else you might not want more than 2 or possibly 3.
shimmy
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Poland997 Posts
August 03 2005 23:34 GMT
#31
On August 03 2005 21:33 Team liquidater wrote:
feedbacking science vessels pisses me off... same with mcing/fbing my medics ¬_¬

then there is the decoy thingy

my friend used to haluc DA and send em into my base with one true DA in the back, i would freak, drop what i was doing (upon seeing 20 DA stroll up to meh expo) and immedietly despence useless firepower on the halucs... in the end he would run off with a marine or something, but it always freaked me out O_o



xDDD
Hell hath no fury like the vast robot armies of a woman scorned.
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
August 03 2005 23:56 GMT
#32
some of you make it sound as if DA's render opposing spellcasters completely useless ( but obviously it isn't like that.. it's not like they will all get to cast nothing before being feedbacked)


also feedbacking wraiths? try to post something that could potentially ever be useful =[
DANCE ALL DAY
Ukyko
Profile Joined November 2004
Netherlands163 Posts
August 04 2005 00:05 GMT
#33
Feedback would be awesome if it was autocast. But this would prob be unbalanced. There is a delay before a spell is cast. What happens when a spellcaster is EMP'ed or Feedback after the spellcasting is innitiated but before being cast. Is the spell interupted then. I can't find any info on delay of spells/attacks.
Hans-Titan
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Denmark1711 Posts
August 04 2005 00:19 GMT
#34
On August 04 2005 08:56 GroT wrote:
some of you make it sound as if DA's render opposing spellcasters completely useless ( but obviously it isn't like that.. it's not like they will all get to cast nothing before being feedbacked)


I think all we said was that the only real use for Feedback is vs. other spellcasters (due to the fact that they have energy ).

also feedbacking wraiths? try to post something that could potentially ever be useful =[


No offence, but I dont see whats so bad about feedbacking a wraith - 50 energy for a free kill (of course if the wraith has more than 120 energy)! Thats potentialy 4 kills pr DA. I honestly don't see whats so bad about DA vs wraiths. Of course I'm not as skilled as you...

Regds

Hans-Titan
Trying is the first step towards failure, and hope is the first step towards disappointment!
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
August 04 2005 00:39 GMT
#35
you really don't see it? Okay, well i'll give it my best shot, but there's so many reasons I probably can't list them all..



1] Wraiths are a very bad choice in most any TvP game. Good players haven't built wraiths in TvP except late game against carriers, and even there I am personally pro-goliath and anti-wraith. We can conclude that wraiths are easily countered by protoss, except in late game with carriers in play probably leaving no gas for DA's

2] DA's are still a high tech expensive unit that's hard to get. Paying energy to cripple or at best kill 1 to 3 wraiths is just not effective enough to qualify a DA as a "counter" to wraiths. Think cannons. Think dragoons. If wraiths were a problem, which they almost never are, think corsairs. Those are real counters.

3] Compare the effect of this spellcaster when you use it to cripple 2 wraiths with the effects of some other spellcasters. High templars storming a stacked-with-SCV mineral line. Queens ensnaring a big group of corsairs and shuttles, making control groups worth of expensive units die when they could have fled. Science vessels continually irradiating the incredible expensive and effective defilers. Those are the type of situations where spellcasters are succesfully used.. game-breaking situations.

4] A wraith comes at a cost of 150/100



If you already have a dark archon and it's around a bunch of wraiths, feedbacking would be a good choice. If you are getting dark archons because you want to feedback wraiths with them in the first place, you are playing out a bad bw strategy
DANCE ALL DAY
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
August 04 2005 00:43 GMT
#36
My point is that if you are going to build dark archons, you have to be doing it for a reason that really breaks the game for your opponent.. like when you maelstrom a control group of mutalisks early and then storm them all. Sadly, I don't even think it's possible to get both mael and storm so early.. if you found a build where you get both in time (i don't think it's possible, but just for argument's sake) that would be a great innovative play that could score you a lot of wins
DANCE ALL DAY
Holorin
Profile Joined April 2005
France227 Posts
August 04 2005 01:01 GMT
#37
in fact, Grot, FeedBack is very lethal to all spell casters because it outranges all spells (except parasite) so having your DA in a good place with aproximately same level players will always lead to feedback being cast first. so at least no spell cast by the other spell caster

MC has a wicked casting-time/lagging shit/DA turning time that really pisses me off

fb wraith is for style :p get 4 goons for the gas and it's no wraith no more
if you have insanely high spare apm you could drop a DA and a reaver/ht to maelstrom scvs and kill them all without them fleeing away or dodging storm (which happens so often to me, the will survive cause they have 60 hp)

and for vessels there's a trick : don't upgrade the reactor so it will not die to fb
Yes, templar ? errr ... nothing [ je t ai casser la ]
Regentropfen
Profile Joined July 2004
Germany277 Posts
August 04 2005 01:10 GMT
#38
maelstrom works on scvs?

never tried, are scvs meant to be "organic"?
War is not about whos right, its about whos left
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-08-04 01:34:52
August 04 2005 01:22 GMT
#39
actually they are the only unit combining organical and mechanical (in bw terms) characteristics:
- lockdown works
- irridiate works
- maelstrom works
- broodling works
- they can be repaired and healed
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Holorin
Profile Joined April 2005
France227 Posts
August 04 2005 02:25 GMT
#40
On August 04 2005 10:22 Carnac wrote:
actually they are the only unit combining organical and mechanical (in bw terms) characteristics:
- lockdown works
- irridiate works
- maelstrom works
- broodling works
- they can be repaired and healed


yeah, all spells can be cast on it (except feedback)
Yes, templar ? errr ... nothing [ je t ai casser la ]
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