On June 18 2012 08:35 Chronopolis wrote: I can't 1a2a3a4a5a6a consistently. I'm 100% serious. I'm trying to break a zerg 3rd+4th with a 150 food army, or even worse trying to break a max push in pvt and I leave 2-3 control groups behind = autolose. How can you 1a2a3a4a5a6a reliably?
How do you deal with hotkey when you split up your army. Say you move 3/4 control groups of stuff to defend natural, while last control group defends 4th in pvz. If you bring hotkeys 1-2-3 to natural, your new units become control group number 5, and compounding the problem of not being able to #+amove relaibly is having odd control group combinations like 1-2-3-5.
Do it twice. Whoever gets left behind in the first 1a2a3a4a5a6a tends to get picked up in the second 1a2a3a4a5a6a
Also, if you tend to do something like 1a23a4a5a6a, it's good to consistently group the same units (for a given matchup/situation) to the same hotkey. Ex: PvT: Zealots 1,2 Goons 3,4 templar 5 arbs 6 If you see your zealots staying behind, you'll only need to 1a2a.
1a2a3a4a5a6a is a bad idea to break a push PvT. You want to have your zealots on move command into the tanks, so they don't get caught up attacking vultures.
On June 18 2012 14:53 CaucasianAsian wrote: 1a2a3a4a5a6a is a bad idea to break a push PvT. You want to have your zealots on move command into the tanks, so they don't get caught up attacking vultures.
I'm usually 1a2right click 3a 4 right click 5a
Oh so you actually press one less button, my respect for ur race has gone down xD
On June 18 2012 08:35 Chronopolis wrote: I can't 1a2a3a4a5a6a consistently. I'm 100% serious. I'm trying to break a zerg 3rd+4th with a 150 food army, or even worse trying to break a max push in pvt and I leave 2-3 control groups behind = autolose. How can you 1a2a3a4a5a6a reliably?
How do you deal with hotkey when you split up your army. Say you move 3/4 control groups of stuff to defend natural, while last control group defends 4th in pvz. If you bring hotkeys 1-2-3 to natural, your new units become control group number 5, and compounding the problem of not being able to #+amove relaibly is having odd control group combinations like 1-2-3-5.
actually its not about misclicking an A-move or a number. you can type 1a2a3a4a5a6a perfectly and still leave a group behind if you issue the command too fast. the key is to do it slower
On June 18 2012 20:40 Puyi wrote: actually its not about misclicking an A-move or a number. you can type 1a2a3a4a5a6a perfectly and still leave a group behind if you issue the command too fast. the key is to do it slower
this! I'm always missing alot of larva because I hit 5sh6sh7sh too quickly. It's really hard to slow down though in the heat of battle...
Ok here's an for fun question: If two opposing players in a 1v1 were given the effects of the single player cheat codes "operation cwal" and "show me the money" (1 to each player), who would win. Or rather, does one side have an unstoppable strategy, or would there be a reasonable cloud of odd strategies and counter strategies.
Cwaling player can do a hilariously fast proxy, so base defense at the start is mandatory. 10k player could proxy like 4 rax, and then 6 factory, but cwaling player, being able to pump off of just 1 gateway should be able to stop it if he sees it in time. Seems like the best bet for the 10k player is to do a mass proxy to occupy the oppoenent, and at the same time get base defense off like a 5 forge, while mass cannoning--> denying the other expos. P is probably the easiest race on both sides (worker limit), but is it the strongest?
By the time the cwal player got their gateway/barracks/pool done, the money player could have already at least started 14 proxy cannons. And even if their one production facility does produce really fast, they are still limited by how much money they have, which can not be more than 10 workers at this point (zerg is also limited by larva, which does not generate any faster than normal).
edit: hmm, if the cwal player four pooled, i think that would be close to the timing of the cannons.
nvm, zerg has no money for lings after the spawning pool finishes, and I think protoss can throw down stuff quicker than 2-6 lings can kill.
To ZvZ experts: Why do pros always do a zergling attack with 12 hatch vs 12pool? (12 pool opponent gets drones and sunken instead of zergling, and 12 hatch user suicides zerglings into sunkens...) Why don't they use their larvae/eco advantage to do 3 hatch (2 hat muta, 1 hat zerg) and beat their 2 hatch opponent that way? I think i saw shine do it once to great effect.
On June 18 2012 14:53 CaucasianAsian wrote: 1a2a3a4a5a6a is a bad idea to break a push PvT. You want to have your zealots on move command into the tanks, so they don't get caught up attacking vultures.
I'm usually 1a2right click 3a 4 right click 5a
Oh so you actually press one less button, my respect for ur race has gone down xD
u miss bw thats why u are here, i liked ur stream it was lots of fun!
On June 20 2012 02:13 Kabel wrote: Anyone knows the optimal maximum workers to have mining minerals in one base?
In SC2 24 workers on mineral is the optimal maximum. How is it in Brood war?
2 1/2 per patch is a loose rule, with terran having more than the other two. It tends to not matter though, because your next expo should go up before you are fully saturated, and then you transfer some workers away allowing you to make more. zerg should never be fully saturated.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Release wrote: To ZvZ experts: Why do pros always do a zergling attack with 12 hatch vs 12pool? (12 pool opponent gets drones and sunken instead of zergling, and 12 hatch user suicides zerglings into sunkens...) Why don't they use their larvae/eco advantage to do 3 hatch (2 hat muta, 1 hat zerg) and beat their 2 hatch opponent that way? I think i saw shine do it once to great effect.
vod or it didnt happen for 2 hatch muta, u dont need any additional drones when u go 12 hatch, although 1-2 drones might be prefered going for 3 hatch eco in that situation would require u to make at least 6-7 drones and u also need to w8 for the 3rd hatch to finally finish, giving time to the 12 pool player to catch up in muta number (especially if 12 pool guy goes lair first).
On June 19 2012 23:59 Release wrote: To ZvZ experts: Why do pros always do a zergling attack with 12 hatch vs 12pool? (12 pool opponent gets drones and sunken instead of zergling, and 12 hatch user suicides zerglings into sunkens...) Why don't they use their larvae/eco advantage to do 3 hatch (2 hat muta, 1 hat zerg) and beat their 2 hatch opponent that way? I think i saw shine do it once to great effect.
vod or it didnt happen for 2 hatch muta, u dont need any additional drones when u go 12 hatch, although 1-2 drones might be prefered going for 3 hatch eco in that situation would require u to make at least 6-7 drones and u also need to w8 for the 3rd hatch to finally finish, giving time to the 12 pool player to catch up in muta number (especially if 12 pool guy goes lair first).
I think he's thinking of this game :
The openings are completely different, but in what seems to be an almost mirror situation, Shine gets a third hatch while Soulkey techs, and Shine wins. I'm not sure what can be deduced of this though, I'd be interested by your input.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Release wrote: To ZvZ experts: Why do pros always do a zergling attack with 12 hatch vs 12pool? (12 pool opponent gets drones and sunken instead of zergling, and 12 hatch user suicides zerglings into sunkens...) Why don't they use their larvae/eco advantage to do 3 hatch (2 hat muta, 1 hat zerg) and beat their 2 hatch opponent that way? I think i saw shine do it once to great effect.
vod or it didnt happen for 2 hatch muta, u dont need any additional drones when u go 12 hatch, although 1-2 drones might be prefered going for 3 hatch eco in that situation would require u to make at least 6-7 drones and u also need to w8 for the 3rd hatch to finally finish, giving time to the 12 pool player to catch up in muta number (especially if 12 pool guy goes lair first).
No vod for that exact build order, but i'm talking about an advantage in general: Most progamers just use spare minerals to make lings and in this vod, shine makes a few drones and an extra hatchery.
And here is the VOD that disappointed me enough to feel this way
On June 19 2012 23:59 Release wrote: To ZvZ experts: Why do pros always do a zergling attack with 12 hatch vs 12pool? (12 pool opponent gets drones and sunken instead of zergling, and 12 hatch user suicides zerglings into sunkens...) Why don't they use their larvae/eco advantage to do 3 hatch (2 hat muta, 1 hat zerg) and beat their 2 hatch opponent that way? I think i saw shine do it once to great effect.
vod or it didnt happen for 2 hatch muta, u dont need any additional drones when u go 12 hatch, although 1-2 drones might be prefered going for 3 hatch eco in that situation would require u to make at least 6-7 drones and u also need to w8 for the 3rd hatch to finally finish, giving time to the 12 pool player to catch up in muta number (especially if 12 pool guy goes lair first).
I think he's thinking of this game : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0ly5A0rSulM The openings are completely different, but in what seems to be an almost mirror situation, Shine gets a third hatch while Soulkey techs, and Shine wins. I'm not sure what can be deduced of this though, I'd be interested by your input.
That's not exactly what i'm talking about. This game shows Shine doing a "great" build where you get a hatchery in the main then take your natural expansion at hatch tech. But, remind ourselves, who got into a MSL finals due to ZvZ? Great, and who was famous for getting that third hatch/base and dragging out games unnecessarily longly? Great. + Show Spoiler +
Does anyone know of a game where the protoss (in PvZ) opens one gate either in his main or his natural and gets two/three zealots before taking a nexus? This is what Minus)Eagle does a lot in his PvZs and I'm wondering if there's a progame of this. I recall Jangbi and Jaehoon doing this on Bloody Ridge but are there games on any other maps?
On June 22 2012 09:28 fold wrote: Does anyone know of a game where the protoss (in PvZ) opens one gate either in his main or his natural and gets two/three zealots before taking a nexus? This is what Minus)Eagle does a lot in his PvZs and I'm wondering if there's a progame of this. I recall Jangbi and Jaehoon doing this on Bloody Ridge but are there games on any other maps?
EPT
