On November 20 2011 13:40 rplant wrote: Would the following shift click sequence work on an SCV:
1.) Build turret, 2.) Shift click repair 3 tanks, one of which isn't damaged, 3.) Shift+click move to a location 4.) Shift+click mine minerals
Sometimes it seems that shift click commands fail, but I'm not sure which ones do. I know you can't queue a command to build a building - is there any other sort of command you can't queue?
Move, repair, load, consume, heal and unload can be queued at any point
gather or patrol must be put at the end of a string (gather will automatically end the string, but patrol will just be ignored if not at the end)
build buildings with scv or probe, and most of the spells that require an input location (Templar spells, DA spells, arbiter spells, d web, queen spells, plague, swarm, yamato, SV spells, lockdown, mines, restore, flare) must be put at the beginning of a string
cloak, stim, siege mode, unsiege, archon warp, building with a drone, any cancels, any building functions, building either interceptors or scarabs, and nuke can not be queued
I think infest cc falls in with the rest of the queens spells, but not sure, and I think that covers all of them.
On November 20 2011 13:46 lyAsakura wrote: Late game TvP, for example on fighting spirit, I push around to one of the mains that he expo'd to. Kill the natural, and have no idea what to do! He usually has like 6 gateways in the main and there's no way I can get up that ramp without getting all my stuff stormed on the edge. So I just camp there, and as he has taken the main and nat of the other corner base (spawned cross) and there's nothing I can do about it since I can do nothing about the meager units he has at the main that I pushed to so his real army is set on defending the other corner base.
At that point, I can't take the natural of the base I pushed to since my scvs will get stormed on the edge of FS's cliff or my tanks will get stormed or just picked off by goons on the highground. Moving away from my position and pushing towards the other main will just tell him to camp the ramp again, and my third and forth bases on the side of the map are mining out and I have no clue what to do!
On November 20 2011 13:40 rplant wrote: Would the following shift click sequence work on an SCV:
1.) Build turret, 2.) Shift click repair 3 tanks, one of which isn't damaged, 3.) Shift+click move to a location 4.) Shift+click mine minerals
Sometimes it seems that shift click commands fail, but I'm not sure which ones do. I know you can't queue a command to build a building - is there any other sort of command you can't queue?
Suppose you're in mid- to late- game as T, with 2/2 upgrades and a decent sized army (say 150 supply). P has kept you from getting a third and has 5 bases to your 2. You spawned at cross positions (you 7, P 1). P has a new base at the 11 nat and established bases at 12, 3, his nat and his main.
In your last ditch push, which direction should you move out to? Suppose you've used 3-4 scans and can't find his army. The new base at 11 nat is closest and unramped, but there are few probes or gateways there. The expos at 12 and 3 are ramped and cannoned, so harder to attack. And the 1 main/nat is far
I understand that at this point you've more or less lost the game already, but still, some choices must be better than others.
Hello. I've been a terran player for quite awhile. I play on ICCUP with on averager between 1000-1200 points. I've been losing some matches recently because I've been playing as Zerg. I'm trying to get a basic concept on all three races, before I specialize in one. I have a basic understanding of builds and Terran strategy. I'm working on Zerg now, and then Protoss. So as I play Zerg vs Terran, I use a base 3 hatch build, sometimes with a 9pool thrown in. But everytime I do this, the terran see's my spire. So he gets prepared with lots of turrets, lots of marines, and sometimes goliaths. After a muta fail, I'll try hydra's and zerglings. Then, marines cream my lings; and tanks destroy my hyrdra's. What's the ideal way to counter this, or solve this problem? And what are some good ZvP/ZvZ builds that I should look up and learn? Thank you.
On November 21 2011 11:36 Blakkout69 wrote: Hello. I've been a terran player for quite awhile. I play on ICCUP with on averager between 1000-1200 points. I've been losing some matches recently because I've been playing as Zerg. I'm trying to get a basic concept on all three races, before I specialize in one. I have a basic understanding of builds and Terran strategy. I'm working on Zerg now, and then Protoss. So as I play Zerg vs Terran, I use a base 3 hatch build, sometimes with a 9pool thrown in. But everytime I do this, the terran see's my spire. So he gets prepared with lots of turrets, lots of marines, and sometimes goliaths. After a muta fail, I'll try hydra's and zerglings. Then, marines cream my lings; and tanks destroy my hyrdra's. What's the ideal way to counter this, or solve this problem? And what are some good ZvP/ZvZ builds that I should look up and learn? Thank you.
generally if you go 3 hatch muta, the point isn't to kill him with mutas but to gain map control while you take a 3rd gas. mutas with good micro can deal with small numbers of MnM (and even more with speed ling support), but generally you need lurkers to control space against large amounts of MnM (especially since once vessels are out for terran, irradiate can destroy large amounts of mutalisks very easily).
hydras are pretty bad against MnM unless they have defiler support (dark swarm not as effective with hydras as it is with lurkers, but still pretty effective). Of course if the terran gets a lot of tanks, hydras still die pretty fast under dark swarm. hydras are good vs terran in the early-to-mid game if the terran goes for a mech build (as they are good at defending vs vultures and good vs goliaths), although in the later stages of the game you will want to mix in a lot of lings/ultras/defilers/mutas/queens (pretty much every unit lol).
although this VOD is a few years old, it's still pretty valid (although doesnt take into account the newer late-game strat of terran switch to mech play):
In TvZ, when should Terran switch completely to late mechanic? Should it be after the first push, 3rd base taken, or when the map is completely divided?
On November 20 2011 23:29 rplant wrote: Similar question to IyAsakura's, about TvP on FS:
Suppose you're in mid- to late- game as T, with 2/2 upgrades and a decent sized army (say 150 supply). P has kept you from getting a third and has 5 bases to your 2. You spawned at cross positions (you 7, P 1). P has a new base at the 11 nat and established bases at 12, 3, his nat and his main.
In your last ditch push, which direction should you move out to? Suppose you've used 3-4 scans and can't find his army. The new base at 11 nat is closest and unramped, but there are few probes or gateways there. The expos at 12 and 3 are ramped and cannoned, so harder to attack. And the 1 main/nat is far
I understand that at this point you've more or less lost the game already, but still, some choices must be better than others.
Move to his main with all your forces to contain him. As soon as the contain is setup, send small forces to destroy his expos and gateways he'll try to build there. If possible, try to EMP arbiters as a recall in your main would end the game.
That assumes you had a decent map control before pushing so there are some mines that would help you to spot a counter attack. If you are 2 bases vs 5 with zero map control, it's probably over. Focus on tank positioning, you can't imagine how much of a difference it makes when pushing. (read : watch Flash VODs, or that replay that was posted recently vs Stats on FS. Flash holds Stats' full army while 35 tanks are chilling on the other side of the map)
On November 21 2011 12:28 NationInArms wrote: In TvZ, when should Terran switch completely to late mechanic? Should it be after the first push, 3rd base taken, or when the map is completely divided?
i don't main Terran but I believe that ideally you will want to switch to mech once you regain map control with vessels and are forcing zerg to turtle with swarm/lurkers. you will be weaker while you switch (as you basically lose most of your army production for a few minutes) so it's ideal that the zerg won't be counter-attacking you. it's also around the same time you take your 3rd base I believe.
although sometimes I see progamer terrans switch to mech when they are still on 2 base and do not have map control (such as the game flash played vs jaedong on gladiator ( VOD ) when flash just seemed to switch to mech because some sort of time had passed and he just had to or something. either way it was somewhat effective as spidermines helped him survive longer and take a 3rd for a bit before just dying.
after watching this I would say once vessels are out, you can switch to mech as soon as you feel comfortable. it's really good to use vultures to control map while you get all your factory tech up (as vultures are super cheap and spidermines really deter large army movements from zerg until they get hydra and overlord speed up).
edit - hopefully a real terran will correct me on anything dumb that I said lol
On November 21 2011 12:28 NationInArms wrote: In TvZ, when should Terran switch completely to late mechanic? Should it be after the first push, 3rd base taken, or when the map is completely divided?
you should move to mech before he goes into 4 gas mode while he is still on lurker tech. the tech switch is a real bitch to deal with as he will have to stall his movements a lot more while you can move on safely to get your third.
the one way to be able to get this timing correctly is to keep scanning for his tech. keep a close watch on his tech paths and unit compositions. usually after you get your vessel, it is ideal to switch.
On November 20 2011 23:29 rplant wrote: Similar question to IyAsakura's, about TvP on FS:
Suppose you're in mid- to late- game as T, with 2/2 upgrades and a decent sized army (say 150 supply). P has kept you from getting a third and has 5 bases to your 2. You spawned at cross positions (you 7, P 1). P has a new base at the 11 nat and established bases at 12, 3, his nat and his main.
In your last ditch push, which direction should you move out to? Suppose you've used 3-4 scans and can't find his army. The new base at 11 nat is closest and unramped, but there are few probes or gateways there. The expos at 12 and 3 are ramped and cannoned, so harder to attack. And the 1 main/nat is far
I understand that at this point you've more or less lost the game already, but still, some choices must be better than others.
if he has gateways in his other bases, then you are pretty much dead and nothing else you can do. but the most effective i would say is still to push toward where most of his gateways are. this is probably assuming that you win the first engagement but even then, he will be more than able to replenish his units and crush you over.
On November 21 2011 12:39 endy wrote: Focus on tank positioning, you can't imagine how much of a difference it makes when pushing. (read : watch Flash VODs, or that replay that was posted recently vs Stats on FS. Flash holds Stats' full army while 35 tanks are chilling on the other side of the map)
This really amazed me when I saw the replay. Flash literally just used 50% of his total tanks to fight the incoming protoss army. I thought when he saw protoss swarming down on right side, he would pull his 20ish tanks on the left to reinforce his right, but nope; he somehow fends off with existing tanks and reinforcement from the factories.
On November 21 2011 12:28 NationInArms wrote: In TvZ, when should Terran switch completely to late mechanic? Should it be after the first push, 3rd base taken, or when the map is completely divided?
There's not really a SHOULD to this, but like a good situation to would be you have half the map split your maxed and 2k/2k, you start massings facts and getting mech ups. You can do the bio opening into mech and a lot of zergs aren't good at handling it (I beat a B zerg with the mech/bio push alone) but it's kinda technical and you're sort of winging it for the most part, relying on mechanics and game sense.
Can use the 3hatch before pool agains a toss? I can use it against a terran if I know he is gonna macro mode (14CC) but I've never watch this BO against toss Why??
On November 24 2011 07:15 therockmanxx wrote: Can use the 3hatch before pool agains a toss? I can use it against a terran if I know he is gonna macro mode (14CC) but I've never watch this BO against toss Why??
generally no you cant because you will get totally fucked by a cannon rush or 2gate, OR the protoss can be just about as equal as you economically by going nexus first and skipping forge. if you feel really lucky you might be able to get away with it before protoss can scout it in time, but generally it's really risky and not worth it.
although sometimes it can work as a 1-off build if you deny scouting right:
this was a pretty neat build because hoejja tricked call into thinking he was doing some sort of 9pool build (or at least kal had to be prepared for it because he couldnt scout it at all, but actually he went 3 hatch before pool while kal had to make 2 cannons before nexus, giving hoejja a HUGE eco lead that he lead to victory (although hoejja put 2nd hat in main, not at an expansion).
On November 24 2011 14:18 NationInArms wrote: Is it still a good idea to use 9 minute push in TvZ? It seems like the most solid standard TvZ build that I can find to me.
It's always good to pressure the zerg. The 9 minutes push is just a good timing because you get enough tanks, a vessel, an almost critical mass of decently upgraded m&m, and it hits before defiler tech.
Unless the zerg went for a very fast hive tech or crazy zerg build, you have no reason not to push him.
If he goes crazy zerg you must push much earlier because of the lack of lurkers. This is a great occasion to force him to do a lot of sunkens to defend.
If he goes fast guardians, go double starports and wraith or vessel depending on the situation, then because he will have tons of sunkens make dropships to abuse the static defense (Flash vs JD power outage MSL game 1? or à la Boxer vs Chojja pimpest play)
If he goes very fast defilers, it's probably because he 2 or 3 hatched lurks and he will try to break your nat early, and he probably didn't drone much either, so it's better to play defensively.
On maps like fighting spirit and python, at what timing should you transfer/maynard probes to your natural expansion(At what percentage of completion of the nexus should I transfer my probes)?
Reason because a lot of times my probes get transferred too early or too late.
EPT
