EPT
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 298
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
Is it just something close to 8 pylon, 10 gate, 14-15 nex, all at the nat? (if we're talking greedy?) Edit- mostly asking about pvz, but feel free to post about other MUs as well. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
also i havent played for a long time but 14 nex for a 1 gate expand seems very quick. dunno if times have changed but i remember it being after you had 2 goons out and range upgrade in progress. this is assuming pvt | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 23 2017 13:53 Jealous wrote: Yea, it's impossible to say which MU he is talking about . Oops, PvZ. But since you mention it, let's hear it for all three MUs. It does seem to be really increasing in popularity in PvZ of late. | ||
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand878 Posts
On February 23 2017 14:46 [[Starlight]] wrote: Oops, PvZ. But since you mention it, let's hear it for all three MUs. It does seem to be increasing in popularity in PvZ of late. Something like 8 pylon, 10 gate, zealot + pylon + que up second zealot. The nexus goes down around 20 if you delay the third pylon or zealot, or sometime like 24-25 if you don't. That's how I've been doing it anyway. | ||
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InDi
Spain90 Posts
*Considering 1 probe scout PvT: plenty of variations, 12/13/14 Nex, or the most usual, 8p,10g,11vespene,13core,15p,17goon+range,21 exp (safer to wait for 3 goons to exp) PvP: Not so familiar but I guess it should be, 8pylon,10gate,13zeal,16pylon,18nex I believe all this builds are without cutting probes. Considerations: Zergs are getting used to this and responding with speedling openers, need to be careful with your wall and timings, and not to lose your first zeals. (You can rush your forge before nex if needed, your eco will be OK anyway). | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
Meanwhile I also notice that when I'm p and I go gateway forge nexus, I usually still enter midgame with economic advantage, or at least not disadvantage; going about it this way allows me to pressure with impunity. At the very top level I'm sure gateway nexus forge is a better build, but I think a lot of people who play less perfect than that, will have more success with gateway forge nexus. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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MuNi
United States72 Posts
It does require you to pay attention to each zealot and your scouting probe while continuing to take care of business at home. So if multi taskikg isnt your strong suit and you are weaker pvz than other mus(which most protoss are) then open ffe or practice gate expand with friends in private games until your comfortable. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Should i just not stack them and engage like that (you know going to the barracks, zoning out the zerglings from the marine). Also is it a-move or patrol move? When I do a-move it takes these fuckers like ages* to attack but again maybe it's because i'm stacking them and drilling them. *They keep on gliding and moving past units, and then eventually when they stop moving they start attacking. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
I was searching some information about 4 hatch before gas and found this interesting post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/203666-zvp-4-hatch-before-gas-upgrades#13 mentioning neo-sauron zerg. Is neo-sauron zerg the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build? Also, does someone know of some interesting threads that talk about the history of ZvP and its evolution? I want to gain a better understanding of why builds fell out of favour and why certain new builds came to life. | ||
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AndreasHeideman
Sweden30 Posts
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
On February 27 2017 13:40 B-royal wrote: Thanks Cryoc. I was searching some information about 4 hatch before gas and found this interesting post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/203666-zvp-4-hatch-before-gas-upgrades#13 mentioning neo-sauron zerg. Is neo-sauron zerg the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build? Also, does someone know of some interesting threads that talk about the history of ZvP and its evolution? I want to gain a better understanding of why builds fell out of favour and why certain new builds came to life. ya koreans used to call it lee jaedong's neo sauron referring to that http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/96051-translation-todays-zvp-trend There is this thread referring to what you are asking for but it is also missing what happened later on. (ie the rise of flyer carapace, 8hat hydra, neo-bisu with sair speedlot etc) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/170973-who-will-save-the-protoss-bisu Neo-bisu kinda gets covered here and there is a follow up at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/235839-how-to-play-bvz Honestly, how zvp evolved after Bisu is probably one of the most interesting things to have happened in BW. At the very least, it's what sustained my interest for so long as it easily became my favorite matchup. It really did deserve its own Final Edit and I'm pretty sad that I never took the time to do it myself. There is so much that could be said on the topic. Jaedong also never really got enough credit for his contributions to the matchup either. | ||
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Jealous
10401 Posts
On February 27 2017 16:10 Harem wrote: Jaedong also never really got enough credit for his contributions to the matchup either. Could you elaborate in as many words as you feel up to writing? I would be interested to know more about this. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 23 2017 20:07 Liquid`Drone wrote: I notice that a lot of people who go gateway nexus forge end up dead to zergling pressure. Pulling that off really requires you to pay very close attention with your scouting probe - you have to know where his zerglings are before and how many he ended up building before you apply any pressure. (As zerg, I avoid engaging his zealots and just run through instead.) Meanwhile I also notice that when I'm p and I go gateway forge nexus, I usually still enter midgame with economic advantage, or at least not disadvantage; going about it this way allows me to pressure with impunity. At the very top level I'm sure gateway nexus forge is a better build, but I think a lot of people who play less perfect than that, will have more success with gateway forge nexus. Nice info. And a thank you to you, EvilF, Indi, Empathy, and all the other helpful repliers.  Toss is the race I play as the least (by quite a lot), and when I have I've usually Forge FE'd in pvz. 1 Gate Expand seems like a lot more fun/less passive (plus is kinda the 'hot' opening right now), and I like the quicker tech. Was kind of hoping ppl would be of the opinion that a 'nearly-naked'/quick FEs are worth a go, but looking at the walling more closely, yeah, it's pretty hopeless without an early Forge. So yah, gate-forge-nex builds seem like the ticket. Thanks again for the replies. (btw, why no Liquipedia page for 1 Gate FE? Forge FE has its own (very well-detailed) page.) | ||
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InDi
Spain90 Posts
On February 28 2017 18:37 [[Starlight]] wrote: Nice info. And a thank you to you, EvilF, Indi, Empathy, and all the other helpful repliers. Toss is the race I play as the least, and when I have I've usually Forge FE'd in pvz. 1 Gate Expand seems like a lot more fun/less passive (plus is kinda the 'hot' opening right now), and I like the quicker tech. Was kind of hoping ppl would be of the opinion that a 'nearly-naked'/quick FEs are worth a go, but looking at the walling more closely, yeah, it's pretty hopeless without an early Forge. So yah, gate-forge-nex builds seem like the ticket. Thanks again for the replies. (btw, why no Liquipedia page for 1 Gate FE? Forge FE has its own (very well-detailed) page.) 1 Gate openings are indeed way more fun to play than FFE. Just for the record, the idea is to do gate-nexus-forge not gate-forge-nexus | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On February 28 2017 18:54 InDi wrote: 1 Gate openings are indeed way more fun to play than FFE. Just for the record, the idea is to do gate-nexus-forge not gate-forge-nexus At considerably increased risk, of course. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
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