EPTIs it because that it is vulnerable to 2 base timing attacks from Protoss or that it doesn't pressure protoss enough?
Such style is still quite prevalent on iccup..
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1071 Posts
Is it because that it is vulnerable to 2 base timing attacks from Protoss or that it doesn't pressure protoss enough? Such style is still quite prevalent on iccup.. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6451 Posts
On January 30 2017 19:49 HaFnium wrote: Why it seems that Korean Zergs are now less likely to go for the other natural in a 4 player map for their 3rd into 4 bases.. Is it because that it is vulnerable to 2 base timing attacks from Protoss or that it doesn't pressure protoss enough? Such style is still quite prevalent on iccup.. it is better vs 1 gate expo and the constant zealot production. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2023 Posts
On January 30 2017 19:49 HaFnium wrote: Why it seems that Korean Zergs are now less likely to go for the other natural in a 4 player map for their 3rd into 4 bases.. Is it because that it is vulnerable to 2 base timing attacks from Protoss or that it doesn't pressure protoss enough? Such style is still quite prevalent on iccup.. Dependent on the map and position. Cross position is always nice to take close 3rd as both of your far away naturals are close to protoss and exposed to early game zealot pressure. If map is huge it still may be possible (like Jade for example). I mean, it's possible on any map, just bit more risky. Also, some zergs just like to play 6 hath hydra into muta from 3 exp, for that it's also good to play a close spawn as you don't need a quick 4th base anyway. Another thing is that on some maps (like fighting spirit), your close 3rd expansion has 8 minerals vs each natural having 7 minerals, so you get that mineral boost when taking early close 3rd. You could call it a quick benefit vs long time struggle (that's why zergs would 99% of time go for an aggresive mid game when going for close 3rd, e.g hydra muta or mass hydra lurker etc.) Unless your game plan is to grab a relatively safe 4th base it's not worth to go for that far away natural. Other thing is my personal belief is that there is no stronger zerg than quick 4th base defensive zerg with 3x evo chamber and quick hive, but that's a matter of taste again. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6451 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
Then theres the hiya 4 fact http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/170706-hiya-4-fact-timing http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Hiya_4-Fac Which apparently hits around 8:05, and its apparently a cut scv 4 fact rush sort of thing But I've also seen a third variant of a 4 fact that pushed out at 7:30 with only 4 tanks, 1 machine shop 3 w/o. Light vs jangbi on andromeda. So why the discrepancy on how to do a 4 fact timing push? Why is hiya's scv cutting rush actually slower than Lights 4 fact, where he didnt stop scv production? | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:58 Dazed_Spy wrote: 4 fact on the teamliquid wiki "Four Factory: This build incorporates two Factories producing Tanks until reaching a total of six to eight, meanwhile adding two more Factories for Vultures. The Terran will move out once the two new Factories complete with SCVs, a few Vultures, and six to eight Tanks while maintaining Vulture production. This build is meant to punish the Protoss for being greedy before the Protoss begins producing Zealots with the Leg Enhancements upgrade. " Then theres the hiya 4 fact http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/170706-hiya-4-fact-timing http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Hiya_4-Fac Which apparently hits around 8:05, and its apparently a cut scv 4 fact rush sort of thing But I've also seen a third variant of a 4 fact that pushed out at 7:30 with only 4 tanks, 1 machine shop 3 w/o. Light vs jangbi on andromeda. So why the discrepancy on how to do a 4 fact timing push? Why is hiya's scv cutting rush actually slower than Lights 4 fact, where he didnt stop scv production? Hiya's build is slower because of the time spent making 4 extra tanks. You also have to keep 3 in gas the whole game in order to afford everything so you lose some mineral income there. Also if you do an opener like: 9/10 depot 11/18 barracks 12/18 gas 16/18 factory 16/18 depot 2 marines ~22/26 machine shop + CC at the same time tank 2 marines tank siege mode (basically the same thing Last does in this game, just with siege mode instead of mines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZQf331Gfo) you can do the exact same 8 tank, 4 vulture, 4 marine attack at 8:05 as the Hiya build without cutting SCVs. I don't know how the turret times compare or anything but I'm not sure if there is any point in doing the SCV cutting style. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Demurity
United States424 Posts
On February 01 2017 04:53 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ok, but why would I even want to push out later or sooner? Why would light go at 3-4 tanks, and Hiya/the wiki timing goes at 6-8? This is when game sense, map, and scouting P must be considered. For example, if P scouts your factories and throws down gates and gets a shuttle then you may struggle/lose if you wait an extra 60 seconds. I'm sure these builds on the wiki are to be used at your own discretion, knowing the timings is the ultimate goal. Maybe rewatch the vods and pay attention to what P has, to understand what the terran is thinking. | ||
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Caligo
South Africa15 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2023 Posts
On February 06 2017 09:48 Caligo wrote: I heard/read somewhere (I can't for the life of me remember where) that the Brood War engine executes the patrol, hold position, attack and move commands in a particular order and thus that certain commands were then faster than others. Does anyone know what the order is? Also, how big of a difference can this make? More important than understanding the prioritization mechanizm is to get a feel of how different units react when utilizing different commands. (as you can't really apply the same logic to each unit) I suggest experimenting with most common units. Hint here is that all of air units behave roughly the same and you need to feel how they work when using attack, hold, patrol and move (with "m" key on keyboard, not right click). Afterwards try hold vs attack vs patrol on units like vulture / dragoon / tank /goliath, as they react differently. | ||
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Highgamer
1373 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/482111-extra-time-for-switching-targets#18 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers?page=273#5458 | ||
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shall_burn
252 Posts
Also messaging/ally buttons got replaced by "show minimap terrain" button. So.. lol Is it possible, that the game goes on even if the last cpu building was destroyed? I for life can't find it  edit: shift+tab solved my problem. Last remaining geyzer. Omg | ||
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NewbOnTheFloor
Poland160 Posts
On February 06 2017 18:11 kogeT wrote: More important than understanding the prioritization mechanizm is to get a feel of how different units react when utilizing different commands. (as you can't really apply the same logic to each unit) I suggest experimenting with most common units. Hint here is that all of air units behave roughly the same and you need to feel how they work when using attack, hold, patrol and move (with "m" key on keyboard, not right click). Afterwards try hold vs attack vs patrol on units like vulture / dragoon / tank /goliath, as they react differently. Right click and move command work differently ? Didnt know that ;o | ||
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Scarbo
294 Posts
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molotow[eef]
Germany81 Posts
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Scarbo
294 Posts
If you tell a unit to attack something you have vision of, it will decelerate before being in range, so that it can attack at max range. If you tell the same unit to attack something you don't have vision (building in the fog of war for example), the deceleration only happens when the unit is in range. If you tell the unit to attack something that is in vision but you lose vision before they get there, they take a middle ground approach to the whole thing. If you just a-move on the ground then it acts as if you had no vision of whatever it is (even if you have vision). This also affects units that have no acceleration, however it's less noticeable. It also affects melee units, meaning they will take longer to correct the trajectory, if necessary. It has something to do with target acquisition. It looks like range is also affected by enemy movement, but I didn't run a lot of tests about this. Right click and any other command to my knowledge is not distinguished by the game. The game has default commands that right click will give you depending on what you click on so it's essentially the same as giving that command. | ||
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1071 Posts
On January 30 2017 20:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: im not really sure going quick 4 bases is that good anymore,there are so many ways to punish it and behind this protoss doesnt really need to go entirely all in,just with delayed third he is gonna be ok,on top of that he can double expand u cant do much about it. What are the good ways to punish it? It is still very popular at lower levels. Gateway first is so hard to punish them, at my level zerg just tend to make 1 sunken early game (which is bad i know... but it means that i cant run around killing drones) Again 2 base speedzeal is hard against zergs who know proper simcities these days. 2 base dragoon heavy styled attacks? seems quite effective IMO.. | ||
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Jealous
10083 Posts
I think it was SPL vs. Pure but I'm not sure. He was at 6 o'clock and he ran his probes from his main to his third and his nat to his main really fucking fast. I think someone uploaded it as a mini-clip of its own. I couldn't find it because "best probe run" doesn't give great results. | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On February 14 2017 13:10 Jealous wrote: Anyone know where I can find this short YouTube video of Best running his probes away from Protoss harassment (I forget if Storm or Reaver)? I think it was SPL vs. Pure but I'm not sure. He was at 6 o'clock and he ran his probes from his main to his third and his nat to his main really fucking fast. I think someone uploaded it as a mini-clip of its own. I couldn't find it because "best probe run" doesn't give great results. at 11:15 | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
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