EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 278
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
I have a general question though. When building mass macro gateways, I tend to stack them along a line of stacked pylons. then on the right side of the gateways, I add another line of pylons and stack more gateways right next to that. what happens is that if I have 3 lines of pylons, some units can't come out. So I am wondering if there is a more effective sim city I can employ. I am very curious as to what is the best way to arrange my buildings. I feel like this is important because the goons can really take a long time to get to the rally point at times. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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ArmadA[NaS]
United States350 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rhhIY8v.jpg) | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
On October 04 2016 00:55 FortyOne wrote: Oh man. I nearly won my first PvZ but the Z had a hidden base and I suicided into a ton of lurkers. I have a general question though. When building mass macro gateways, I tend to stack them along a line of stacked pylons. then on the right side of the gateways, I add another line of pylons and stack more gateways right next to that. what happens is that if I have 3 lines of pylons, some units can't come out. So I am wondering if there is a more effective sim city I can employ. I am very curious as to what is the best way to arrange my buildings. I feel like this is important because the goons can really take a long time to get to the rally point at times. i forgot exactly where i found/heard this information but there is info somewhere that shows how units spawn out of gateways and how pylons can trap units. i dont remember exactly what it was but never have more than 1 pylon to the right of a gateway and dont stack more than 2 rows of 3 gates p g g_ p p g g_ p p g g_ p * _ indicates space ^ above example spawns all units to the right of gateways and doesnt block units p g g g p p g g g p p g g g p ^ this shape will block units p g g g_ p p g g g_ p p g g g_ p ^from memory a unit gets blocked here but the space between the gates and pylon might be ok. should test it out because i vaguely remember this shape being used before. basically gateways spawn units to the bottom and right of the building. if both exits are blocked then the gateway will spawn the unit on top of the building, but theres a limit to how much you can block. ill see if i can find where i found the info previously | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
On October 04 2016 08:44 evilfatsh1t wrote: i forgot exactly where i found/heard this information but there is info somewhere that shows how units spawn out of gateways and how pylons can trap units. i dont remember exactly what it was but never have more than 1 pylon to the right of a gateway and dont stack more than 2 rows of 3 gates p g g_ p p g g_ p p g g_ p * _ indicates space ^ above example spawns all units to the right of gateways and doesnt block units p g g g p p g g g p p g g g p ^ this shape will block units p g g g_ p p g g g_ p p g g g_ p ^from memory a unit gets blocked here but the space between the gates and pylon might be ok. should test it out because i vaguely remember this shape being used before. basically gateways spawn units to the bottom and right of the building. if both exits are blocked then the gateway will spawn the unit on top of the building, but theres a limit to how much you can block. ill see if i can find where i found the info previously Thank you sir. that is exactly what I wanted to confirm. I will go with this for now! very easy to set up as well!!! p g g_ p p g g_ p p g g_ p | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
p g g _ g p p g g _ g p p g g _ g p it looks like 9 gateways but it has a gap between them. if you have a very wide space in your main you can use this shape as you can put another 2 gateways to the right of that shape as well your end game gateway layout ends up looking like p g g _g p g g p g g _g p g g p g g _g p g g thats 15 gateways fitting quite easily in almost 1 screen | ||
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Jealous
10407 Posts
p g g For the other, assume blocks like ggggare gates ppare pylon pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg Fuck this, much easier to use map editor: + Show Spoiler [Gates 1] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t6QPtpV.png) + Show Spoiler [Gates 2] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBpH7ih.png) + Show Spoiler [Other Gates formations] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5o86Ma0.png) I used to be obsessed with my Gateway aesthetic. My friends called me Architect Toss. EDIT: Just for fun, these are all Dragoon-friendly, although you may run into some traffic. + Show Spoiler [Gooncity] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hIOzF9V.png) | ||
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
On October 04 2016 16:19 Jealous wrote: This is how I do it so that all gateways are Dragoon-friendly. There are two options p g g For the other, assume blocks like ggggare gates ppare pylon pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg pp gggg gggg Fuck this, much easier to use map editor: + Show Spoiler [Gates 1] + + Show Spoiler [Gates 2] + + Show Spoiler [Other Gates formations] + I used to be obsessed with my Gateway aesthetic. My friends called me Architect Toss. EDIT: Just for fun, these are all Dragoon-friendly, although you may run into some traffic. + Show Spoiler [Gooncity] + wtf...thanks for taking the time to do this. You could design Auir for sure. This is sticky material for us newbie tossers. Man, I am glad you didn't walk into my base in the past, I think you would have blown a gasket. Thanks so much man. my favorite: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/a/r2Zoh) imgur.com I am going to use this on fighting spirit. Hey jealous quick question about this one: pgggp pgggp pgggp pgggp pgggp Wouldn't this one block goons? | ||
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Jealous
10407 Posts
If I have time today after work I'll show my gateway placement on FS. I don't think the one you like is optimal for all bases but I'll play around with it. | ||
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
ggp ggp ggpNexus ggp ggp ggp It's alright but I would love to improve and learn about the best way to add more gates. cuz after the first row of pylons, it gets a bit hectic and inefficient. | ||
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Jealous
10407 Posts
On October 05 2016 01:15 FortyOne wrote: thanks Jealous. would love to see what you use on FS. I've been doing: ggp ggp ggpNexus ggp ggp ggp It's alright but I would love to improve and learn about the best way to add more gates. cuz after the first row of pylons, it gets a bit hectic and inefficient. I sometimes do this as well. Remember that in PvT it can be important to have a good wall-off with your buildings so Vuture run by doesn't reach your mineral line. However, probe pathing when Maynarding or running from drop play also gets affected by 2x2 Gateway placements, so if you know that drops are coming you might want to switch it up  you'll see mine tonight, I'm committed now after your shower of praise earlier. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Is this a good thing to do, should I always do this? Since I've noticed with 3 hatch while still going lair, you'll have some idle larva if you build only zerglings (lack of minerals). Here are the timings from my tests: 3 hatch before pool in reaction to 12 hatch of opponent (zvz, first scout on overlord): 12 hatch => 1.40-1.43 13 hatch => 2.15 (13 hatch is better than 11 hatch, pool timings stay the same) pool => 2.30 (takes 50 seconds + 20 seconds for lings to complete) first lings => 3.41-.3.44 Lair => 3.30 speed => 3.48 3rd overlord done by 4.01 Opponent's lings will arrive at 3.40 at the earliest. | ||
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Jealous
10407 Posts
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0CsxFgmdGrHVjhGRVdrV0JyZGM/view?usp=sharing ^ StarCraft Brood War save file. I figured it would be easier to do this than to take screenshots of the entirety of FS lol. 0. Download this file and put it in StarCraft\Maps\Save 1. Launch Brood War 2. Multiplayer, Expansion 3. Select LAN UDP 4. Create an account named "1" (with no quote marks) 5. Host a game, Up one level, [save] folder 6. Run tha trap It should put you in my save file where I pretty much covered all the bases except for the middle with Dragoon-friendly Gateways and left space for all the relevant tech structures as well as Pylon walls etc. I wouldn't say it's perfect - there is actually 1 gate on the top right that I fucked up because I generally just don't produce Dragoons out of it and add the corner gate later in the game if at all - but overall I think it's pretty good. Bottom right/Top left are my favorites to work with, you might be able to tell. My least favorite is bottom left. Maybe you can use the screenshots I've posted/the save file to come up with your own Gateway cities that you like Obviously, pathing will be an issue for some of the gates that are farthest back, but when you stuff so many damn Gateways into one base that's going to happen no matter how you place them. Sidenote: Personally, I don't usually bother making ALL of my Gateways Dragoon-friendly. You're not supposed to lose all of your Dragoons, ever, and if you have then you will need Zealots anyway so I just make Zealots on the inner gates (that are trapped) and Dragoons on the outer gates. | ||
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
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Jealous
10407 Posts
On October 05 2016 17:59 FortyOne wrote: hey Jealous, it says that I need at least one opponent to start the game. I tried melee and UMS, can't load it. Fuckkkkk. I removed the AI instead of actually killing it and leaving 1 building because I'm lazy. *sigh* Not sure what would be faster, taking screen caps or doing it all over again. I'll figure it out tonight. EDIT: FUCKKK MAYNE So I started another UDP match and killed the comp, saved an Assimilator, started getting 200/200 probes again and trying to not mine out any of the mineral lines and I thought "Wtf are you doing fam? Single player has cheats." So I went on Single Player and I cheated mad, finished 2 main bases, 2 nats, 2 thirds, and then started on the third main base. Made a Cannon, it starts shooting the Assimilator. "Oh shit better get rid of that" sent my fleet of Carriers at it. Carriers kill the Cannon then kill then proceed to kill the Assimilator, game over GG. FML. I'm too tired to try again today, tomorrow fam. | ||
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FortyOne
Thailand26 Posts
On October 05 2016 23:14 Jealous wrote: Fuckkkkk. I removed the AI instead of actually killing it and leaving 1 building because I'm lazy. *sigh* Not sure what would be faster, taking screen caps or doing it all over again. I'll figure it out tonight. EDIT: FUCKKK MAYNE So I started another UDP match and killed the comp, saved an Assimilator, started getting 200/200 probes again and trying to not mine out any of the mineral lines and I thought "Wtf are you doing fam? Single player has cheats." So I went on Single Player and I cheated mad, finished 2 main bases, 2 nats, 2 thirds, and then started on the third main base. Made a Cannon, it starts shooting the Assimilator. "Oh shit better get rid of that" sent my fleet of Carriers at it. Carriers kill the Cannon then kill then proceed to kill the Assimilator, game over GG. FML. I'm too tired to try again today, tomorrow fam. hahaha now I really want to see this base layout. stop teasing us bro | ||
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milkjuice666
7 Posts
how do people attack while moving with units like vultures and mutalisks? when you right click on a unit normally the attacking unit takes time to get in position and stops moving but i see this technique being used by terrans for early game vulture harass | ||
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Jealous
10407 Posts
On October 06 2016 14:44 milkjuice666 wrote: super noob here how do people attack while moving with units like vultures and mutalisks? when you right click on a unit normally the attacking unit takes time to get in position and stops moving but i see this technique being used by terrans for early game vulture harass For Vultures, they attack forward while moving forwards if you just press move right after attack. To shoot backwards, press P for Patrol and aim behind yourself then right click to move in front of yourself. That way you look like you shot backwards. For Mutalisks there are many different ways to micro them but the easiest way to keep attacking while moving is just to right click to move, attack click something, then right click to move again.The faster you do it, the less stop time there is. | ||
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