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[G] Posting in Strategy does not make you better - Page 7

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
February 17 2010 03:09 GMT
#121
Who said i was frustrated? wth? I am trying to help people with this guide...

also cgrinker i don't think that there is any more you can do. Eventually every player is going to need mass games, and cold hard experience to actually use the resources that you have provided for them.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Excel Excel
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
142 Posts
February 17 2010 03:13 GMT
#122
On February 16 2010 14:12 Fontong wrote:
And please, by god, do not make a racial imbalance thread!


SCVs are clearly imba, 60 HP and can repair shit for almost no cost.
Same with pylons, they can survive nukes and lets you build 50 gateways.
Zerg larvae are OP too, they have 10 armor! that's like at least 20 zealot hits without regen. When they turn into eggs they take more hits to kill than ultralisks!

Suggest removing SCV, Pylon, and larvae from SC to fix race imba. Thanks.

OT: The strategy forum exists for a reason. We come here looking for help, and people are nice enough to give help to make it easier for people to learn and advance. The "only you can fix your own mistakes" philosophy quite frankly does not work when you exist in a world with, god forbid, other people.
"SCREW OBSERVERS MUST HAVE MOAR ARBITERS!!!11one1" - Famous last words
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
February 17 2010 03:54 GMT
#123
Who's smarter: the kid that spends 8hrs a day memorizing a textbook and has no thought of his own or the kid that grasps the concepts and aces the test with out reading the txtbook??

im deaf
DaisyP
Profile Joined August 2009
United States47 Posts
February 17 2010 03:55 GMT
#124
On February 16 2010 14:29 Misrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 14:21 Seraphim wrote:
What is your rank Misrah? :O


Meh doesn't really matter. I only play iccup with my shitty builds / ideas. I am sure that you can find out yourself if your really that interested. I am really not that great.


Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 14:23 huameng wrote:
Totally disagree with this "guide". For what other game, sport, activity, is not asking for help the best way to learn?


"Hi I play soccer. Help me run faster and think better." or- Help my mechanics! (lol yep I am going to come to your house and show you how to type faster. Please don't think about how to improve, just post a question.) Or better yet (How did i lose??? I have no idea. I thought that I did everything right?) is pretty much the gist of all the [H] threads in strategy. The reason why it is never useful, is because most people are asking for help are looking for a solution. they may find it, however they will never come to understand the problem.


Gotta love when a player who doesn't know wtf he's talking about, who admits to being a mediocre/bad player, writes a guide telling other people how to play starcraft. Take a bow.
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
February 17 2010 05:08 GMT
#125
I have to agree with this. Most people who make topics here are better off spending a few minutes asking friends, who can actually go ingame and help them.
the throws never bothered me anyway
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
February 17 2010 06:01 GMT
#126
nice article, never mind these fags
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
February 17 2010 06:05 GMT
#127
On February 17 2010 12:13 Excel Excel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 14:12 Fontong wrote:
And please, by god, do not make a racial imbalance thread!


SCVs are clearly imba, 60 HP and can repair shit for almost no cost.
Same with pylons, they can survive nukes and lets you build 50 gateways.
Zerg larvae are OP too, they have 10 armor! that's like at least 20 zealot hits without regen. When they turn into eggs they take more hits to kill than ultralisks!

Suggest removing SCV, Pylon, and larvae from SC to fix race imba. Thanks.

OT: The strategy forum exists for a reason. We come here looking for help, and people are nice enough to give help to make it easier for people to learn and advance. The "only you can fix your own mistakes" philosophy quite frankly does not work when you exist in a world with, god forbid, other people.

Quoted for life kkthx
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
ix
Profile Joined July 2003
United Kingdom184 Posts
February 17 2010 06:32 GMT
#128
This thread is smug nonsense. Being taught well and having the intelligence to direct your own improvement aren't mutually exclusive. You've obviously never done any sport or anything like that in depth as you'd know how important a good teacher is.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
February 17 2010 07:42 GMT
#129
On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid?


Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too.

I disagree. Low rank players do not actually understand the game and most of their knowledge comes from watching VODs or talking to other people. A bad player, no matter what the reason may be, does not understand the game well. Their advice is merely an exact repetition of what a good player told them. By low rank I mean actually bad, not stuck at D because they don't have time.
dl2agon
Profile Joined June 2009
United States473 Posts
February 17 2010 07:55 GMT
#130
Posting in Strategy does not make you a better player, but accepting other players' advice and guidance does.
pat965
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada274 Posts
February 17 2010 07:58 GMT
#131
On February 17 2010 12:54 imBLIND wrote:
Who's smarter: the kid that spends 8hrs a day memorizing a textbook and has no thought of his own or the kid that grasps the concepts and aces the test with out reading the txtbook??




That example is stupid. If every kid were able to grasp concepts without studying the material, we would all be ridiculously smart, and schooling would be trivial.
hi
blueblimp
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada297 Posts
February 17 2010 08:42 GMT
#132
On February 17 2010 16:42 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:
On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid?


Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too.

I disagree. Low rank players do not actually understand the game and most of their knowledge comes from watching VODs or talking to other people. A bad player, no matter what the reason may be, does not understand the game well. Their advice is merely an exact repetition of what a good player told them. By low rank I mean actually bad, not stuck at D because they don't have time.


I agree. I'm D+ and have bad mechanics, but despite that, I feel primarily limited by game understanding in every match-up except TvZ. This is despite having watched plenty of progames along with reading liquipedia and such.
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
February 17 2010 19:53 GMT
#133
On February 17 2010 12:54 imBLIND wrote:
Who's smarter: the kid that spends 8hrs a day memorizing a textbook and has no thought of his own or the kid that grasps the concepts and aces the test with out reading the txtbook??


Actually both suck by themselves. You need both to be good at any thing. If you just memorize things then you are limited by what you have memorized and if you just learn things on your own then you are limited by time (one person learning alone will always be slower/more behind than multiple people learning together, i.e. if you follow the OPs advice you will always be behind everyone else). You can break both limits by doing both.

Do you really think if all the starcraft players or players of any game for that matter had tried to learn the game by themselves that we would have the game mechanics that we have today?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
February 17 2010 23:58 GMT
#134
On February 18 2010 04:53 Disastorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2010 12:54 imBLIND wrote:
Who's smarter: the kid that spends 8hrs a day memorizing a textbook and has no thought of his own or the kid that grasps the concepts and aces the test with out reading the txtbook??


Actually both suck by themselves. You need both to be good at any thing. If you just memorize things then you are limited by what you have memorized and if you just learn things on your own then you are limited by time (one person learning alone will always be slower/more behind than multiple people learning together, i.e. if you follow the OPs advice you will always be behind everyone else). You can break both limits by doing both.

Do you really think if all the starcraft players or players of any game for that matter had tried to learn the game by themselves that we would have the game mechanics that we have today?


...
the moral of the story is that you need to put effort into what you do, not who's smarter or better.

What the OP is getting at is that you have to help yourself before others can help you. Almost every single [H] thread and [Q] thread i have seen barely meets the strategy forum requirements. They are making us help them without putting any serious thought into their own replays.

There's nothing wrong with a help me thread, but it gets very tiresome when they just say "hey i kno i didn't macro very well why did i lose?" or "is it better to do x or y?" and other very simplistic questions that are easily answered by 1) actually analyzing the replay and 2) focus on fixing it in game.

It's like expecting the book to teach you or acing the test with a cheat sheet; that is exactly what is happening to the strat forum. We're giving out cheat sheets and textbooks and the noobies are learning nothing .
im deaf
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-18 00:49:53
February 18 2010 00:49 GMT
#135
What the noobies are doing is called Help Vampiring. I used to do this until someone pointed it out to me. Essentially they are expecting everyone else to do the work for them. For instance, they'll upload a replay and ask everyone to review it for them - why? You can easily look over your own replays and catch your own mistakes. Admittedly, there are times when it is a genuinely interesting/ useful thread/replay. However, I think the point the OP was making was directed more towards the general questioners of this forum.
TL;DR: Don't ask others inane questions you know the answer to - answer them yourselves.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
February 18 2010 16:24 GMT
#136
It'd be nice if more threads in Strategy were suggesting strategy, rather than asking for it I think that is the largest problem.

There are times though when a novice player looks at his own replay, and though he can see simple mechanical mistakes (missing supply, not constant production, mismatched units ... whatever) he will not notice triggers that should have told him to react. Like most Protoss players can look at a replay, see they got contained by lurkers and say 'wow, my zealots were really bad against lurkers.' So they think, 'okay, I need to stay in my base a little longer to wait for dragoons and observer tech.' But this is the wrong solution. What they need to do is see the signs of lurkers before they arrive, so that they can already be building goons and ob tech before the lurkers get there, so that once they're contained it won't take 5 minutes to break out.

In that, threads that suggest strategy would still be good for these people to read... because they'd learn about these triggers. But definitely unless they know what to watch for they're not going to figure them out quickly on their own. Although I'm considering making a strat thread of pretty pictures to suggest themes new players need to think about.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Batibot
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines348 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 16:09:22
February 27 2010 16:04 GMT
#137
+1

He's not saying, don't post in the Strat section. What he wants to for us to learn is that, we have to exhaust ourselves first thinking why we lost before writing a pretty long post asking for advice.
Jaedong has to be a Bonjwa. Tired of of rooting for July.
leejas
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States440 Posts
February 27 2010 16:35 GMT
#138
Theres that great search function too, I hear that helps us find answers.

Usually if I've got an issue I can find it browsing about the forum for a little -_-
Zerum
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden348 Posts
February 27 2010 17:05 GMT
#139
I haven't read the entire thread but is seams allot of people are comparing asking stuff on thees forums to the same as asking your coach about stuff in any sport. the thing is thats not true at all, its like reading a text book about how to play soccer instead of having coach teaching you how to play soccer. the only time a text book would be of any use at all in a situation like this is when you identified what the problem is and is looking for examples of how you can solve the problem or at least a similar problem and the try them out for yourself.
Batibot
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines348 Posts
April 05 2010 14:09 GMT
#140
It is NOT bad to ask for advice. Be sure to find out YOU, YOURSELF on what's wrong with your play. Of course, you will know that something is wrong thru the guides that you have read and the advice you've received from other people. If you still aren't contented with your play and have really tried your best on improving but is still stuck on something, you ask for help. You're not supposed to ask for help each time you fall, most of the time you have to get back on your feet by yourself.

Sports need to have coaches because you have to have someone telling you what's wrong with what you're doing but, in starcraft you have replays. You can watch it over and over again. Now, coach for sc teams would devise strategy, find holes in opponent's play. That way, their coach can go with the "thinking", "outplanning" your opponents while you can practice and practice and practice.

TLDR

Find the answer within yourself before asking for help, it's just that there are many [H] threads asking for help wherein they could tell what's wrong with their gameplay just by looking thru their rep one more time.
Jaedong has to be a Bonjwa. Tired of of rooting for July.
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