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On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid?
Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster 
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On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too.
I 100% disagree with this statement. If you are giving advice about how to play the game- you should be a very good player yourself. A low level player is low level for a reason. If you have a very large understanding of the game, mechanics should not be the the thing holding you back till you hit a very high skill level.
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Misrah, Koreans talk to each other and ask for help all the time. I see progamers talk to their coaches after games, especially after losing. I don't think discussing the game (even at a beginner's level) is detrimental to developing Starcraft skills. In fact it's probably the opposite; some of your own zerg guides were improved with input from the community.
When properly used, I think the Strategy Forum is the most powerful tool in any Starcraft player's arsenal in improving, short of us paying off progamers for training sessions.
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I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system.
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On February 16 2010 15:04 Xstatic wrote:
Misrah, Koreans talk to each other and ask for help all the time. I see progamers talk to their coaches after games, especially after losing. I don't think discussing the game (even at a beginner's level) is detrimental to developing Starcraft skills. In fact it's probably the opposite; some of your own zerg guides were improved with input from the community.
When properly used, I think the Strategy Forum is the most powerful tool in any Starcraft player's arsenal in improving, short of us paying off progamers for training sessions.
Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level.
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I agree in general with what you are saying about [h] topics in the strategy forum, but I think a player can definitely benefit from feedback about their play. However it's hard to argue the fact that nobody else is going to make u become a better player,even if they give u good advice because it is up to the individual to practice and play smart and put this advice into their games
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I was really waiting for somebody to make a post like yours misrah, it pretty much said everything that needed to be said about most [H] posts in the strategy forum, step three is also nearly always one of the best ideas to fix any problem with your game. I salute you for this post.
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On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster
Fantasy consults Boxer for guidance. Fantasy is a much better player than Boxer right now.
You don't need to be a better player to teach people something. You just need a better understanding of it.
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On February 16 2010 15:05 nujgnoy wrote:
I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system.
But those players don't know what they are doing. they are so sloppy in their build order- and mechanics, it's no wonder they lose. I have looked over many [H] replays and pointed out tons of mechanical error, when "they don't know what went wrong" Once again I feel that in the long run it is not doing any good at all.
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On February 16 2010 15:09 nujgnoy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster Fantasy consults Boxer for guidance. Fantasy is a much better player than Boxer right now. You don't need to be a better player to teach people something. You just need a better understanding of it.
Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level.
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On February 16 2010 15:10 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:05 nujgnoy wrote:
I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system. But those players don't know what they are doing. they are so sloppy in their build order- and mechanics, it's no wonder they lose. I have looked over many [H] replays and pointed out tons of mechanical error, when "they don't know what went wrong" Once again I feel that in the long run it is not doing any good at all.
When I first started tennis and my serve was terrible, I had no idea what I was doing wrong. Seriously no idea. A pro would've seen me and said, "It's obvious what you're doing wrong." But I had no idea what the problem was and thus I wouldn't be able to fix it myself without any guidance.
Also, there are details that you can't see with your eyes. For example, it's really important to use your legs when you serve. You have to propel yourself upwards with your relatively more powerful leg muscles. If no one told me about this, I would never have been able to realize it.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too.
Lol, if you never played the game, you don't understand the game at all. There's a lot of D players that think they understand the game, but they don't have the mechanics to execute their intentions. But once you play the game and got past C rank, you'll realize that there's so much that you didn't understand before.
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On February 16 2010 15:11 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:09 nujgnoy wrote:On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster Fantasy consults Boxer for guidance. Fantasy is a much better player than Boxer right now. You don't need to be a better player to teach people something. You just need a better understanding of it. Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level.
Do you seriously think that they only played for years? That they never asked anyone for help? That they shut their mouth and played for 10 years to get as good as they are?
No way. The system of asking for help works. It's a proven system and it's worked for so many things over time in history, not just for sports or games but for everything.
Once again, if you argue that the problem is with the quality of posts on TL, that's the problem with the community, not with the system of asking for personal help.
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On February 16 2010 15:13 nujgnoy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:10 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:05 nujgnoy wrote:
I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system. But those players don't know what they are doing. they are so sloppy in their build order- and mechanics, it's no wonder they lose. I have looked over many [H] replays and pointed out tons of mechanical error, when "they don't know what went wrong" Once again I feel that in the long run it is not doing any good at all. When I first started tennis and my serve was terrible, I had no idea what I was doing wrong. Seriously no idea. A pro would've seen me and said, "It's obvious what you're doing wrong." But I had no idea what the problem was and thus I wouldn't be able to fix it myself without any guidance. Also, there are details that you can't see with your eyes. For example, it's really important to use your legs when you serve. You have to propel yourself upwards with your relatively more powerful leg muscles. If no one told me about this, I would never have been able to realize it.
You can't watch yourself play tennis. You can't look at every single movement, slow down the speed- analyze every single muscle twitch. In starcraft with BW chart, the chaos launcher and the new BWAI replay launcher- you can look at every single aspect of your game. Stop comparing a physical sport to starcraft, as they are in two different realms of competition. Playing starcraft and watching a replay of yourself, is nothing like tennis.
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On February 16 2010 15:17 nujgnoy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:11 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:09 nujgnoy wrote:On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster Fantasy consults Boxer for guidance. Fantasy is a much better player than Boxer right now. You don't need to be a better player to teach people something. You just need a better understanding of it. Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level. Do you seriously think that they only played for years? That they never asked anyone for help? That they shut their mouth and played for 10 years to get as good as they are? No way. The system of asking for help works. It's a proven system and it's worked for so many things over time in history, not just for sports or games but for everything. Once again, if you argue that the problem is with the quality of posts on TL, that's the problem with the community, not with the system of asking for personal help.
You don't understand. Asking for help and finding only the solution will kill you in the long run. the smart player will attempt to understand the problem first. Not simply find a solution. I am not talking about the community or the posting quality in my thread. I am simply offering some friendly advice to the many [H] posters.
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On February 16 2010 15:19 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:13 nujgnoy wrote:On February 16 2010 15:10 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:05 nujgnoy wrote:
I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system. But those players don't know what they are doing. they are so sloppy in their build order- and mechanics, it's no wonder they lose. I have looked over many [H] replays and pointed out tons of mechanical error, when "they don't know what went wrong" Once again I feel that in the long run it is not doing any good at all. When I first started tennis and my serve was terrible, I had no idea what I was doing wrong. Seriously no idea. A pro would've seen me and said, "It's obvious what you're doing wrong." But I had no idea what the problem was and thus I wouldn't be able to fix it myself without any guidance. Also, there are details that you can't see with your eyes. For example, it's really important to use your legs when you serve. You have to propel yourself upwards with your relatively more powerful leg muscles. If no one told me about this, I would never have been able to realize it. You can't watch yourself play tennis. You can't look at every single movement, slow down the speed- analyze every single muscle twitch. In starcraft with BW chart, the chaos launcher and the new BWAI replay launcher- you can look at every single aspect of your game. Stop comparing a physical sport to starcraft, as they are in two different realms of competition. Playing starcraft and watching a replay of yourself, is nothing like tennis.
I watched myself play tennis with my friend who video recorded me. True story. I realized that I looked very awkward, but I had no idea exactly what were the little details that made the big picture bad, until my friends told me to pay attention to this, that, etc.
And I don't think you understand that I'm not comparing a sport to tennis. I'm comparing them in respect to what you've degraded, asking for help from other players. You've made it seem that the system of asking for personal analysis is broken. It's not. You should have made a post titled "Good players should post more on Strategy forums," NOT "don't ask for help in strategy forums."
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often times when people post help threads, i believe they discover things that they weren't aware that were possible.
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On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster
Your own experience shows that hard work paid off This is especially effective if a player gradually picks up the game and learns things along the way at a constant rate.
But what if the player hits a plateau of skill? Continue reading Liquidpedia? Continue making notes? Continue fighting alone, never getting better?
On February 16 2010 15:03 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too. I 100% disagree with this statement. If you are giving advice about how to play the game- you should be a very good player yourself. A low level player is low level for a reason. If you have a very large understanding of the game, mechanics should not be the the thing holding you back till you hit a very high skill level.
You're not saying coaches lack a good enough understanding of the game to give advice? Just because they can't play doesn't mean their minds and knowledge are inadequate. Knowledge and actual skill are correlated but one does not directly depend on another.
On February 16 2010 15:08 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:04 Xstatic wrote:
Misrah, Koreans talk to each other and ask for help all the time. I see progamers talk to their coaches after games, especially after losing. I don't think discussing the game (even at a beginner's level) is detrimental to developing Starcraft skills. In fact it's probably the opposite; some of your own zerg guides were improved with input from the community.
When properly used, I think the Strategy Forum is the most powerful tool in any Starcraft player's arsenal in improving, short of us paying off progamers for training sessions. Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level.
I'm comparing the Korean gaming scene to the foreign gaming scene. Koreans play games together all the time and discuss how to get better, how to improve, who beat who last night, etc. Notice how they get better.
Then we have people bickering about how to discuss strategy, how to learn, etc. Live and let live. Learn and let others learn. Don't post in [H] threads if you get frustrated.
Not all relevant knowledge is in Liquidpedia. And not everyone is going to learn all they need to learn from their replays. There are some things that have to pointed out on an individual basis.
You're advocating one way of learning: practice, practice, practice until you iron out the mistakes and become stronger. It's a good way, and certainly works. I use the same system for my academics, and when I practice enough I get A's ^^
I'm proposing an alternate way for Starcraft: practice the correct things, learn why they work or didn't work, and practice some more, getting better at things along the way. Of course just as much practice is needed, but this way people have more fun than just practicing the same stuff over and over and hoping that improvement will come naturally.
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On February 16 2010 15:20 Misrah wrote:
You don't understand. Asking for help and finding only the solution will kill you in the long run. the smart player will attempt to understand the problem first. Not simply find a solution. I am not talking about the community or the posting quality in my thread. I am simply offering some friendly advice to the many [H] posters.
You can't fix them by reading more guides, you can't fix them by reading more posts from D players, and you certainly can't fix them by typing exhaustive [H] threads in the strategy forum.
This clearly implies that the inputs you get are because they are from D players. And if you are not emphasizing the poster's rank aspect, you must mean that getting posts from A+ players won't help you either.
Also, you say experiment with new solutions, try a new build order. The problem is, a player who doesn't understand why they lost in the first place won't be able to have the comprehension to decide whether a BO works or not.
Maybe you mean a player should get the BO from liquipedia. The BO information is great, but you can't win by memorizing and executing the list. There are LOTS of little details that maybe wrong with your gameplay that you may not realize (macro problems, micro problems, etc.). Things that you didn't think about that could help you (creative things such as cliff dropping that new players often don't think of).
Understanding the Flash build page will NOT let you win games alone. There are game specific things such as push timing, 3rd timing, etc that you may not realize by yourself that are obvious to someone who is more experienced, despite that someone not being an A+ player.
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On February 16 2010 15:22 nujgnoy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:19 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:13 nujgnoy wrote:On February 16 2010 15:10 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:05 nujgnoy wrote:
I know you advocate the use of liquipedia, but liquipedia and posting on forums are both ways to reach out to the community to get help. At first, when you don't have a good understanding of the game, you want a general cookie-cutter guide which is what liquipedia provides. But when you feel like you know what you're doing, but you still get stomped, you need a personalized help, which is what the forums should do. It's like classroom lectures and one-on-one guidance. When you first start learning, you need a one-size-fits all class to get a general idea. After you've graduated, you need a more personal guidance, which is what graduate students get from PhDs in writing their thesis. Liquipedia is like the classroom classes that you get in highschool/college. After you've learned the generals, you focus on your specifics, which is what you get from personal feedbacks. Which is what posting [H] is supposed to provide.
And again, if you don't get quality feedback, the problem lies with the community, not the system. But those players don't know what they are doing. they are so sloppy in their build order- and mechanics, it's no wonder they lose. I have looked over many [H] replays and pointed out tons of mechanical error, when "they don't know what went wrong" Once again I feel that in the long run it is not doing any good at all. When I first started tennis and my serve was terrible, I had no idea what I was doing wrong. Seriously no idea. A pro would've seen me and said, "It's obvious what you're doing wrong." But I had no idea what the problem was and thus I wouldn't be able to fix it myself without any guidance. Also, there are details that you can't see with your eyes. For example, it's really important to use your legs when you serve. You have to propel yourself upwards with your relatively more powerful leg muscles. If no one told me about this, I would never have been able to realize it. You can't watch yourself play tennis. You can't look at every single movement, slow down the speed- analyze every single muscle twitch. In starcraft with BW chart, the chaos launcher and the new BWAI replay launcher- you can look at every single aspect of your game. Stop comparing a physical sport to starcraft, as they are in two different realms of competition. Playing starcraft and watching a replay of yourself, is nothing like tennis. I watched myself play tennis with my friend who video recorded me. True story. I realized that I looked very awkward, but I had no idea exactly what were the little details that made the big picture bad, until my friends told me to pay attention to this, that, etc. And I don't think you understand that I'm not comparing a sport to tennis. I'm comparing them in respect to what you've degraded, asking for help from other players. You've made it seem that the system of asking for personal analysis is broken. It's not. You should have made a post titled "Good players should post more on Strategy forums," NOT "don't ask for help in strategy forums."
Once again I don't think that you can compare tennis to starcrarft. Because i have never played a single game of tennis in my life I am not attempting to compare it to starcraft, nor can i understand where you are coming from. You seem very adamant- so i am going to agree to disagree with you on this matter.
On February 16 2010 15:24 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:02 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Certainly, however I am not telling people how to play the game. I am simply trying to tell them how to learn the game. And from my experiences from moving from D- to where I am now mostly using my idiotic build ideas, I would say that I have a fairly firm grasp on how I got to point A to B. I only wish that I could have spoken to myself years ago. It would have allowed me to progress so much faster Your own experience shows that hard work paid off This is especially effective if a player gradually picks up the game and learns things along the way at a constant rate. But what if the player hits a plateau of skill? Continue reading Liquidpedia? Continue making notes? Continue fighting alone, never getting better? Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:03 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 14:58 Xstatic wrote:On February 16 2010 14:54 Seraphim wrote:
No offense, but shouldn't you play on a mid-high level in order for your own advice to be valid? Not at all. Some people are stuck at a lower level of skill because they're too lazy to practice or don't have time, but understand the game well. They can give (potentially) give good advice too. I 100% disagree with this statement. If you are giving advice about how to play the game- you should be a very good player yourself. A low level player is low level for a reason. If you have a very large understanding of the game, mechanics should not be the the thing holding you back till you hit a very high skill level. You're not saying coaches lack a good enough understanding of the game to give advice? Just because they can't play doesn't mean their minds and knowledge are inadequate. Knowledge and actual skill are correlated but one does not directly depend on another. Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 15:08 Misrah wrote:On February 16 2010 15:04 Xstatic wrote:
Misrah, Koreans talk to each other and ask for help all the time. I see progamers talk to their coaches after games, especially after losing. I don't think discussing the game (even at a beginner's level) is detrimental to developing Starcraft skills. In fact it's probably the opposite; some of your own zerg guides were improved with input from the community.
When properly used, I think the Strategy Forum is the most powerful tool in any Starcraft player's arsenal in improving, short of us paying off progamers for training sessions. Trying to compare Korean pro gamers in any way shape or form to our level of play is insignificant. How do you think that they got there in the first place? Through years and years of hard work and dedication. Even when you are on the B team- the only thing you do is play, play, play, play, play- till you get to a point when you finally understand the game at a pro level. I'm comparing the Korean gaming scene to the foreign gaming scene. Koreans play games together all the time and discuss how to get better, how to improve, who beat who last night, etc. Notice how they get better. Then we have people bickering about how to discuss strategy, how to learn, etc. Live and let live. Learn and let others learn. Don't post in [H] threads if you get frustrated. Not all relevant knowledge is in Liquidpedia. And not everyone is going to learn all they need to learn from their replays. There are some things that have to pointed out on an individual basis. You're advocating one way of learning: practice, practice, practice until you iron out the mistakes and become stronger. It's a good way, and certainly works. I use the same system for my academics, and when I practice enough I get A's ^^ I'm proposing an alternate way for Starcraft: practice the correct things, learn why they work or didn't work, and practice some more, getting better at things along the way. Of course just as much practice is needed, but this way people have more fun than just practicing the same stuff over and over and hoping that improvement will come naturally.
Hitting a Plateau is merely a figment of the imagination. No one plays perfect starcraft. There is always something you can do better. Even flash knows this.
The only coaches that actually coach in the true sense of the word, were once pro players themselves. ala boxer, iloveoov and the like.
Your final paragraph is amazing. Practicing over and over blindly is not the way to succeed at starcraft (i found that out the hard way) One needs to understand starcraft while practicing. And the only way to understand the game is to play, and attempt builds on your own.
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EPT
