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Rekrul your analogy is really fail.
its more like this:
you steal a candy.
the officer gets you and says: "you little fucker, if you ever do that again you pay 100$, NOW GO HOME!"
[now you should go back and give that candy back, but strelok just walked away with it (his fail)]
but, the next day you come again and the officer walks up to you and says: "you've stole a candy yestardy you gotta pay 100$ now"
thats just fucked up logic.
@topic
i think for such a case no admin is needed, because if there is not a very clear advantage towards a player the game is still open. if there are just slight advantages you can always come back and win the game. so you as players should be good and manly enough to just replay the fucking game.
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Sooo funy the first page of this thread consist a lot of ppl supporting strelok without even knowing what are the details and then rekrul comes...write something and the sheeps follow him as they usually do.Mark my words Strelok ur doomed here!
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Also, rekrul's last post is just about how it should be. Stupid rules should NEVER, EVER, EVER be more important than common sense.
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On June 29 2009 22:45 StorZerg wrote:
If a store asst manager (ie gamestop) prices a rock band kit for $25 instead of $200 they must sell it at that price. Store manager cannot say "ops miss priced" and put the correct sticker on. The store is obligated to sell the rock band kit at the marked price. (though the asst manager may get fired)
That isn't what I was saying at all but this is more good will or company policy than any obligation under contract law (invitation to treat) if it is done mistakenly.
On June 29 2009 22:54 pokerface wrote:
Sooo funy the first page of this thread consist a lot of ppl supporting strelok without even knowing what are the details and then rekrul comes...write something and the sheeps follow him as they usually do.Mark my words Strelok ur doomed here!
Or maybe it had something to do with the fact that Artosis, the one who intervened, also posted his side? Nope, definitely sheep
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On June 29 2009 22:56 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2009 22:45 StorZerg wrote:
If a store asst manager (ie gamestop) prices a rock band kit for $25 instead of $200 they must sell it at that price. Store manager cannot say "ops miss priced" and put the correct sticker on. The store is obligated to sell the rock band kit at the marked price. (though the asst manager may get fired) That isn't what I was saying at all but this is more good will or company policy than any obligation under contract law (invitation to treat) if it is done mistakenly.
the law is not universal, in my country the store HAS to pay, its not good will or company policy at all. major mistakes are excluded ofc aka you wont get a Rolex for 20.00 instead of 2000.--
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 29 2009 22:37 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2009 22:32 nataziel wrote:
I dunno, sounds like strelok kind of has a point, he's not saying that anything the referees have said is wrong, just that they went back on their word. By the same token, why leave? Worst case scenario you play fenix and lose... best case, you win the tournament. Strelok is in no way badmouthing sdm or artosis, he's saying they DO know more about starcraft than him, he's just pissed off that they changed their decision. Both sides have fair arguments, but I just think it's a bit stupid to turn around and pull out because of something like this. No! Actually what he should have done is this! After the disconnect happened said "Well that sucks ok replay gogo." Thats what a normal person would do. But instead he chooses to act like a little girl that just got farted on.
brb i gotta fart on a little girl so i get the full meaning out of this post
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On June 29 2009 22:58 WhuazGoodNjaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2009 22:56 floor exercise wrote:On June 29 2009 22:45 StorZerg wrote:
If a store asst manager (ie gamestop) prices a rock band kit for $25 instead of $200 they must sell it at that price. Store manager cannot say "ops miss priced" and put the correct sticker on. The store is obligated to sell the rock band kit at the marked price. (though the asst manager may get fired) That isn't what I was saying at all but this is more good will or company policy than any obligation under contract law (invitation to treat) if it is done mistakenly. the law is not universal, in my country the store HAS to pay, its not good will or company policy at all. major mistakes are excluded ofc aka you wont get a Rolex for 20.00 instead of 2000.--
It probably varies by country but here there's the bait and switch side which is illegal, advertising one price and trying to sell it at another. But if you just plum forgot a decimal when you were putting the price tag on, you aren't obligated to sell it for that price by law. Although a lot of consumers seem to think you are and will raise a huge fuss and for most retailers it's just way better to keep the customer happy and give him his plastic dinnerware for $2.50 instead of $25
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Those poker metaphores are quite irrelevant though they don't add anything to the fact that Strelok didn't like it that the admins changed opinions so quickly. They just show that you've got too much money.  I understand the one about the mucking part that's a fair call but giving someone a half pot since he claimed to have the same cards . That's just being too idealistic imo.
Strelok never complained or asked to make it 0-0 again, he just wanted a decision about the second game since he felt he was ahead in that game. Then the admin(s) came up with that decision. So why would it be his fault if they made a stupid decision? It's kinda lame imo to make Strelok look like a cheating unfair person now... As far as I remember he's one of the more fair players on the scene. You should give him some credit.
Why don't the admins make the game public so it's not based on the opinion of one guy like it is now.
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If it went down the way Artosis described it's the worst decision I've ever heard of. HOWEVER i refuse to believe someone can make a decision that outrageously wrong so I assume that someone tricked Lipton and SDM to make the wrong call by providing false facts OR the version told by Artosis is not entirely true.
Artosis is (as far as i've noticed) a really great guy so it feels like someone pulled a number on Lipton and then basically what Rekrul said...
But I don't want to judge before I've heard the whole story from everyone... Really sad that this happened
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Replace Liptons name with Kespa in almost every post made in this thread.... see the similarity?
i don mean to bash lipton, but this is what happens when u have someone who doesn't have full knowledge on the tourneys he's working on...
so, now that Strelok is out, is the broadcast getting delayed again?
i kinda feel bad for tasteless and SDM on how Valor is turning into waves and waves of dramas and problems...
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On June 29 2009 22:47 Rekrul wrote:
Example 1:
I was playing in a poker tournament in Macau. I was going pretty far and had a big stack. I put out a huge bluff on this guy but he called me. I showed my hand. Then he showed me a hand that beat mine but then accidentally flipped it upside down and threw it into the muck. The rules state that if you do this your hand is dead. That means I win the hand. This pot was worth a lof of money in equity for me. One faggot kid chimed up and he's like "YO THATS UR POT MAN HE MUCKED IT." I looked at the kid like he was a fucking idiot. The dealer was trying to ship me the pot. "Give him the pot." I said. Kids like "no dude thats ur pot..."
"GIVE HIM THE FUCKKKKING POT."
The idiot that mucked his hand had no idea what was going on. But justice was had. I did not deserve those chips. He made the right call. Some other guy at the table said "WOW, respect." Just another day in the life.
Example 2:
Similar situaion. I called a huge turn bet with a straight flush draw (king jack high) on a QTssxx board and then missed on the the river. I checked and the other guy checked. I slammed my hand down face up as always do. He then just like insta mucked his hand. The dealer shipped me the pot then the guy (who is a genuinely nice guy) was like "OMG I HAD KJ TOO I THOUGHT U HAD SOMETHING BETTER BY THE WAY U FLIPPED UR HAND UP SO I JUST MUCKED."
I looked him in the eye, "are you serious?" "Yes!" He was not lying to me. I then counted the pot and gave him half of it.
BUT!!! I guess not everyone can be the man.
this thread is about how other people made wrong decisions, not about how much of a man you are
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On June 29 2009 23:04 Shizuru~ wrote:
Replace Liptons name with Kespa in almost every post made in this thread.... see the similarity?
i don mean to bash lipton, but this is what happens when u have someone who doesn't have full knowledge on the tourneys he's working on...
so, now that Strelok is out, is the broadcast getting delayed again?
i kinda feel bad for tasteless and SDM on how Valor is turning into waves and waves of dramas and problems...
true drama :/
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i guess that Strolok is angry not with the results os the decision... but, as he said, with the change of the result after 5 days, and is worse when you know that you cant do a shit about.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On June 29 2009 23:07 nebffa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2009 22:47 Rekrul wrote:
Example 1:
I was playing in a poker tournament in Macau. I was going pretty far and had a big stack. I put out a huge bluff on this guy but he called me. I showed my hand. Then he showed me a hand that beat mine but then accidentally flipped it upside down and threw it into the muck. The rules state that if you do this your hand is dead. That means I win the hand. This pot was worth a lof of money in equity for me. One faggot kid chimed up and he's like "YO THATS UR POT MAN HE MUCKED IT." I looked at the kid like he was a fucking idiot. The dealer was trying to ship me the pot. "Give him the pot." I said. Kids like "no dude thats ur pot..."
"GIVE HIM THE FUCKKKKING POT."
The idiot that mucked his hand had no idea what was going on. But justice was had. I did not deserve those chips. He made the right call. Some other guy at the table said "WOW, respect." Just another day in the life.
Example 2:
Similar situaion. I called a huge turn bet with a straight flush draw (king jack high) on a QTssxx board and then missed on the the river. I checked and the other guy checked. I slammed my hand down face up as always do. He then just like insta mucked his hand. The dealer shipped me the pot then the guy (who is a genuinely nice guy) was like "OMG I HAD KJ TOO I THOUGHT U HAD SOMETHING BETTER BY THE WAY U FLIPPED UR HAND UP SO I JUST MUCKED."
I looked him in the eye, "are you serious?" "Yes!" He was not lying to me. I then counted the pot and gave him half of it.
BUT!!! I guess not everyone can be the man. this thread is about how other people made wrong decisions, not about how much of a man you are
Wrong decisions were made. Wrong decisions were corrected and balance was restored. Now this little girl is whining.
While I do possess male genetalia and am a man, what I said is that I am THE man.
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On June 29 2009 23:11 Baytuts wrote:
i guess that Strolok is angry not with the results os the decision... but, as he said, with the change of the result after 5 days, and is worse when you know that you cant do a shit about.
He can be a man and finish what he started or he can be childish about it and drop out. Sorry to put it so brutally honest but its the truth. I wanted to see him play and possibly win.
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Regarding this blind "lets just replay if we get d/ced" is that not just playing into the hands of whoever disconnected. That's probably why Daniel and Lipton chose to do it this way. I mean, does that mean next time im playing a bo5 and I feel like my apm is not at its peak, or my mind isn't in the game, things that are very hard to see by the replay, mind you, I can just d/c because I don't like the conditions that I'm playing in and can do so with no repercussion?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 29 2009 22:54 WhuazGoodNjaggah wrote:
Rekrul your analogy is really fail.
its more like this:
you steal a candy.
the officer gets you and says: "you little fucker, if you ever do that again you pay 100$, NOW GO HOME!"
[now you should go back and give that candy back, but strelok just walked away with it (his fail)]
but, the next day you come again and the officer walks up to you and says: "you've stole a candy yestardy you gotta pay 100$ now"
thats just fucked up logic.
@topic
i think for such a case no admin is needed, because if there is not a very clear advantage towards a player the game is still open. if there are just slight advantages you can always come back and win the game. so you as players should be good and manly enough to just replay the fucking game.
"fail" is not an adjective don't bring 4chan vernacular here
your username is unacceptable, PM me with an acceptable name to have it changed to
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 29 2009 23:23 epicdoom wrote:
Regarding this blind "lets just replay if we get d/ced" is that not just playing into the hands of whoever disconnected. That's probably why Daniel and Lipton chose to do it this way. I mean, does that mean next time im playing a bo5 and I feel like my apm is not at its peak, or my mind isn't in the game, things that are very hard to see by the replay, mind you, I can just d/c because I don't like the conditions that I'm playing in and can do so with no repercussion?
most people have some sense of fair play and wont do that
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On June 29 2009 23:23 epicdoom wrote:
Regarding this blind "lets just replay if we get d/ced" is that not just playing into the hands of whoever disconnected. That's probably why Daniel and Lipton chose to do it this way. I mean, does that mean next time im playing a bo5 and I feel like my apm is not at its peak, or my mind isn't in the game, things that are very hard to see by the replay, mind you, I can just d/c because I don't like the conditions that I'm playing in and can do so with no repercussion?
The basis of having such an agreement to just replay is founded on the ideal that both players are willing to play fairly and would not stoop to such lows.
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Rekrul, those rules aren't examples of poor rules. Those are examples what happens if you have very clear rules that are enforced very clearly. If you muck, your hand is dead. That's how it should be. you can't muck a hand and then take it back even if you won.
Otherwise you should make it so your hand can't ever be dead unless you have to have to put more money in the pot and you don't.
You always have the freedom to give people back their money, if that itself isn't against the rules.
Also, this has nothing to do with the Strelok case.
If they have the principle: "Lipton makes a final decision and that stands no matter what." then they have that rule. and then if Lipton makes a bad decision that can't be reversed.
If they have a rule stating "We aim to make the most fair ruling possible and only the last ruling will be the final one." then they have that as a rule.
If they have a general rule for a disconnect then they have that. "Game is played again unless Lipton rules game was unequal enough to award a win."
Replaying game 1 because of game 2 makes no sense. I guess at some point Strelok took the the "I don't accept this, I demand to replay the entire Bo3 or I will refuse to play" position.
This would be an attempt at blackmail and it should never fly. He should expect to accept the ruling. You never get to decide you deserve a win because you suffered an unfair ruling. And even if this is a rule, then Fenix would get the autowin because he was ruled against unfairly, apparenently.
Does Strelok even claim that in game 2 he had enough of an advantage to get a win? If not and he refuses to replay game 2, he forfeits.
If Lipton claimed his ruling was final and it wasn't he has a problem. Strelok has what Lipton claims is his final ruling. But now Lipton wants to go back on it? He can try but if Strelok refuses then that's probably not very manner. But then Strelok has a point. Lipton would be breaking his own rules to correct his unfair judgment. And you aren't allowed to break rules.
Both players accept the rules by entering the tournament. If the rules fuck them over then that's the risk they are taking.
Lipton can always claim game 2 has to be replayed if the rules state disconnects where the game is equal need to be replayed. That rule also has to be enforced. Lipton also can't ignore that rule even when he claimed he made a 'final ruling'. Strelok also accepted this.
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EPT
