EPTTLPD / ELO Change - Page 3
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darkemperor
Turkey725 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Honestly, I think that's the most fair choice.. | ||
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Bormac
Belgium122 Posts
On April 02 2009 15:19 benjammin wrote: eh, why do people care about the kespa sanctioned? a check doesn't need to be kespa sanctioned, and iirc the gom prize was a big fat one edit: by this i mean why would some teams not participate i guess ogn and mbc make sense because of competing networks, but why not skt1? Yeah, I don't get this either. It'd be nice if the only tournament that's cast in English got a bit more legitimacy, not to mention all teams on board. | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
So the only other real solution would be to add all the old leagues we're missing (quite a lot imo) and decide (ourselves) which ones should be counted towards ELO and which ones shouldn't. That'd require tons of grunt work tho. | ||
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Jumbalumba
Australia118 Posts
I believe I speak not only for myself when I say we want a database that is complete or able to be complete to as reasonable an extent as possible. If going through the past is unreasonable then so be it. However, ignoring such significant events (for which the data is readily available) based on the whim of a body like Kespa does not do justice to the actual records of the players we want to build a database about. If you feel that the factor about Kespa sanctioning is so important, at least allow us the data and the analysis that flows from that data that is invalid due to not being Kespa sanctioned to be available through options or some other such means. I, myself, prefer accurate and whole data that reflects the competitive environment of televised starcraft as opposed to data only for those that Kespa sanctions. | ||
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gravity
Australia1961 Posts
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SeBASTa
China1147 Posts
so it's hard to say what's the right thing to do unless you consider Kespa is always right | ||
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
On April 02 2009 15:05 Fr33t wrote: Meh, even though I am a Jaedong fan I consider this good news. With GOM S2 not counting, Jaedong will have the highest ELO after he rapes fantasy and not Bisu. But at least this factual statement makes me happy  | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
great news | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
They had tough lineups and it was a valid tournament, season 1 was missing like 2 or 3 teams (oh no!) whatever.. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 02 2009 19:40 PoP wrote: The reason we care about "Kespa sanctioned" is because the original game list brought into TLPD was only composed of such leagues. If we start counting every single one of them now, the stats would be skewed until we add all the previous ones as well. So the only other real solution would be to add all the old leagues we're missing (quite a lot imo) and decide (ourselves) which ones should be counted towards ELO and which ones shouldn't. That'd require tons of grunt work tho. I can't think of a single league the size of GOM from the past.. Hell, even ITV and GhemTV are counted, and they are smaller. WCG isn't counted (the national prelims are tho!). I don't think we'd be missing almost anything by just saying "starting from Gom S1, we will be tracking their games". Meh. | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On April 02 2009 19:08 FrozenArbiter wrote: Hrm, how about saying "fuck the KESPA" (corrupt organization that they are), and adding all the Gom leagues? Honestly, I think that's the most fair choice.. I think FA just proved why he is my most favourite TL moderator. In any case, I agree with him. KESPA sanctioned or not, the GOM leagues are too big of events to be ignored when it comes to player performance. TeamLiquid is a fansite, not a KESPA outpost outside Korea. | ||
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Ideas
United States8128 Posts
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On April 03 2009 00:11 Ideas wrote: man KESPA is so fucking stupid. There's no reason that the GOMs shouldn't be sanctioned. I guess with enormous proleague and non-stop msl, osl action, schedule is way too tight on players another official league would dilute starcraft or something like that. I can see how it is not accepted yet. | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
i just find it impossible to keep up nowadays | ||
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snapcrackle
United States568 Posts
Not only because of this: On April 02 2009 19:40 PoP wrote: The reason we care about "Kespa sanctioned" is because the original game list brought into TLPD was only composed of such leagues. If we start counting every single one of them now, the stats would be skewed until we add all the previous ones as well. So the only other real solution would be to add all the old leagues we're missing (quite a lot imo) and decide (ourselves) which ones should be counted towards ELO and which ones shouldn't. That'd require tons of grunt work tho. But also because of the following reason: Currently Season 3 contains no SKT players as well as OGN and MBC (correct me if i'm wrong on OGN and MBC please) i believe there are more. Season 1 and 2 also had teams that did not participate. This in effect would also skew the TLPD elo stats. It would create an imbalance where teams aren't playing against all teams fairly (proleagues)/randomly(OSL/MSL). An example so you can get a better view of it. Lets say Person A and Person B are on fire right now. Person A is allowed to play in GOM while Person B is not allowed to play in GOM. Person A gets a high number of games played thereby his ELO rose significantly. Person B however is an ace for his team and ONLY gets to play around 2-3 televised matches a month. Had he been in GOM he might have had a chance to establish a higher peak ELO but sadly he isn't. To bring another example with said reason above: Imagine a tournament with only 2 or 3 or 4 teams participating in it... would you count that into the ELO? Don't wanna edit the second reason to make it sound easier/better but i'm sure if you read it enough times you can get what i mean | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 03 2009 00:21 snapcrackle wrote: I personally don't care about the Kespa hate thing or whether or not it should be hated. But in my opinion what the mods are doing seems like the right choice. Not only because of this: But also because of the following reason: Currently Season 3 contains no SKT players as well as OGN and MBC (correct me if i'm wrong on OGN and MBC please) i believe there are more. Season 1 and 2 also had teams that did not participate. This in effect would also skew the TLPD elo stats. It would create an imbalance where teams aren't playing against all teams fairly (proleagues)/randomly(OSL/MSL). An example so you can get a better view of it. Lets say Person A and Person B are on fire right now. Person A is allowed to play in GOM while Person B is not allowed to play in GOM. Person A gets a high number of games played thereby his ELO rose significantly. Person B however is an ace for his team and ONLY gets to play around 2-3 televised matches a month. Had he been in GOM he might have had a chance to establish a higher peak ELO but sadly he isn't. To bring another example with said reason above: Imagine a tournament with only 2 or 3 or 4 teams participating in it... would you count that into the ELO? Don't wanna edit the second reason to make it sound easier/better but i'm sure if you read it enough times you can get what i mean So the last MSL and OSL don't count because they had no ACE players? I disagree with this decision, couldn't care less about Kespa. Why so serious... | ||
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snapcrackle
United States568 Posts
On April 03 2009 00:29 Shikyo wrote: So the last MSL and OSL don't count because they had no ACE players? I disagree with this decision, couldn't care less about Kespa. Why so serious... Did they have no ACE because ace wasn't recognized? Or because no ACE qualified? Very big difference | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
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