I think also part of this is the demand for help...playing Zerg is basically unique among RTS race designs, so just really broad RTS concepts don't necessarily apply to playing Zerg.

One of the main reasons I play Zerg is because of that uniqueness. And also because I, too, like making drones.

Jayme

United States5866 Posts

March 18 2009 18:22 GMT

#23

I'm much like chill in that I really just headfirst kept smashing with game after game until (with goals obviously) things started falling into place. It takes... a lot of time.

Zerg is just much harder to balance in the beginning when you start playing, it is a truly unique race among RTS platforms and that's why I like it so much.

My point is though that I wouldn't wish that on anyone again, if they are willing to learn I don't see why I wouldn't at least help out.

raga4ka

Bulgaria5679 Posts

March 18 2009 18:32 GMT

#24

I really need to lurn standart ZvT

I practise my muta micro and do a lot of 2 hat muta in to lurker or the other way around , but i normaly suck at controling large armys middle game vs terran i end up losing a lot of lings ... Well at least until C - i don't have eny problems . if there is eny vods on standart ZvT i would be happy to see them : / .

Spyfire242

United States715 Posts

March 18 2009 20:44 GMT

#25

I don't think any race is harder to learn than another race, I do believe however that certain races suit certain players better, for example I played zerg for a very long time before I realized that Terran is better suited to my style of play and that I am much better with them, for me they are easier to learn and control than zerg but for someone else terran may be harder. And to the OP, maybe you are just unlucky I am sure there are many terrans out there willing to teach, id offer to but I am still learning myself so I am D+ at best.

Jayme

United States5866 Posts

March 18 2009 21:05 GMT

#26

On March 19 2009 03:32 raga4ka wrote:
I really need to lurn standart ZvT

Luxury doesn't play standard ZvT much at all, I think he's doing pretty good

. You probably just need more unit control practice with large armies, at least that's what helped me. My muta control still sucks something fierce but at least my lurker/ling hydra/lurker (read everything else :/) is starting to get quite decent.

To Spyfire, yes zerg is 100% most difficult to learn when you're just BEGINNING. I'm talking about like people that barely have the basics down. The balance between larva management and drone -> building type mechanics make it quite a lot of thinking for a brand new player.

That's why it's usually suggested you at least start with Terran/Protoss with the workers and units separated so you at least get a feel for the game. I didn't listen and I paid for it dearly for awhile

After basics though it evens out yes.

ramen247

United States1256 Posts

March 18 2009 21:12 GMT

#27

there is no terran help cuz

1. the foreigner terrans (idra is korean, so he is not included) dont have any idea how to ~~play terran~~ unlock terran's true potential.
2. terran is hard.
3. most terran advice only applies after you get pretty good and fast...
4. the best foreigner tvz still loses horribly to korean muta harass.

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

March 18 2009 21:15 GMT

#28

On March 19 2009 05:44 Spyfire242 wrote:
I don't think any race is harder to learn than another race, I do believe however that certain races suit certain players better, for example I played zerg for a very long time before I realized that Terran is better suited to my style of play and that I am much better with them, for me they are easier to learn and control than zerg but for someone else terran may be harder. And to the OP, maybe you are just unlucky I am sure there are many terrans out there willing to teach, id offer to but I am still learning myself so I am D+ at best.

Protoss is by far the easiest to learn. I started with them and stayed with them for a season and a half a second season on iCCuP before switching to Zerg.

I've tried switching to Terran but my mechanics aren't the best. The way I see it...

Protoss is good learning the fundamentals of the game.
Zerg requires the highest gamesense on what to do and when to do it.
Terran requires the strictest mechanics, such as in terms of micro and macro.

By no means am I saying toss is an easy race to play... just easIER.

YPang

United States4024 Posts

March 18 2009 21:23 GMT

#29

On March 19 2009 06:15 FabledIntegral wrote:

By no means am I saying toss is an easy race to play... just easIER.

EasIER out of the 3 means easIEST

United States6173 Posts

March 18 2009 21:25 GMT

#30

Zerg is different from toss and terran due to their macro. Terran and zerg and considerably more mechanically demanding than toss, however. A lot of learning terran is just improving your macro and learning how to micro properly.

AttackZerg

United States7577 Posts

March 18 2009 21:25 GMT

#31

On March 19 2009 01:26 Chill wrote:
Yes Zerg is the hardest race to learn. If people are at a reasonable level I really like helping them because I know how long it takes to learn from experience only.

This.

Terran requires so many different skills before strategy even matters. Zerg is more like protoss in that you can get away with worse mechanics, but hard to grasp timing wise like terran.

Also I think terran can be learned easier threw observation while when I try to mimmic zerg strats I generally fail because they are so situational (and I suck)

Spyfire242

United States715 Posts

March 18 2009 21:27 GMT

#32

Everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess, I still think difficulty of a race depends on the person playing.

checo

Mexico1364 Posts

March 18 2009 21:34 GMT

#33

Terran players help i do but i sucks... D+ so i can really just tell you some advice, i know a lot of the game but don't have the skill to use my knowledge....yet

Clasic

Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts

March 18 2009 21:36 GMT

#34

Dude, protoss never help me lawl.

Sadist

United States7328 Posts

March 18 2009 21:42 GMT

#35

Terran is less situation dependent and reactionary in most circumstances imo. Combine that with the fact that late game its incredibly hard to play/hold expansions etc. Zerg to me feels more like managing the game at least for the most part, I mean obviously you need decent enough control but at the lower-moderate level you dont really need to be fast or anything. Drone management and maybe defiler use would be the only real difficult tasks. Protoss is similar to zerg in that respect as well. With Terran IMO it feels like you have to attack THEM and that puts you at a disadvange a bit because you can get caught unsieged or out of position and cant run away and save your shit like the other races .Late game terran units are just difficult to control/use. Ultras basically rape shit with little effort and can run around the map, whereas toss can recall or have carriers or stuff that can snipe your expansions. Its also very difficult to come back in games since terrans harass is stopped relatively easy so you gotta try to goad the person into attacking you in an unfavorable position for them.

I dunno to me Terran is less about a guide and more playing mechanically perfect with micro/macro than the other races at least at lower levels. Early game Terran is far and away the least forgiving of the 3 races. I guess there are just little intricacies I dont really understand and I feel most if not all non-koreans dont understand. It seems to be that with zerg and toss you can kinda just do something and you can make it work out or at least not make you lose (unless its something retarded like going entirely goon vs 4 fact pure tank or something)whereas terran you can get fucked really hard early because of your build and be basically dead unless the opponent fucks up bad.

Ive definitely noticed more zerg players help each other out though, but above is my reasoning behind why terran is more difficult to get help with.

Chill

Calgary25998 Posts

March 18 2009 21:47 GMT

#36

I agree with your analysis. I've always thought that the hardest part of learning each race is:
Terran - raw mechanics
Zerg - Larve management and army composition
Protoss - intuition

SkepTicAL

Canada872 Posts

March 18 2009 22:09 GMT

#37

Ya terran is not much strategic thinking to it, just repetition of situations until you get good at it. There isn't much room to be creative mid/late game. That's why people make the joke terrans are robots, when in fact they need to be robots in order to consistently win. In the foreigner scene, I do believe terran is the hardest race to master because of the lack of insight we get compared to the koreans. Not trying to be bias or anything, but look at gg.net's ranking system(of course not terribly accurate but generally it gives decent insight), there are only 3 terrans in a list of 30 players, that says something right there.

ramen247

United States1256 Posts

March 18 2009 22:11 GMT

#38

On March 19 2009 07:09 SkepTicAL wrote:
Ya terran is not much strategic thinking to it, just repetition of situations until you get good at it. There isn't much room to be creative mid/late game. That's why people make the joke terrans are robots, when in fact they need to be robots in order to consistently win. In the foreigner scene, I do believe terran is the hardest race to master because of the lack of insight we get compared to the koreans. Not trying to be bias or anything, but look at gg.net's ranking system(of course not terribly accurate but generally it gives decent insight), there are only 3 terrans in a list of 30 players, that says something right there.

thats not true. terran creativity is much more subtle, and cant be seen with foreinger eyes.

SkepTicAL

Canada872 Posts

March 18 2009 22:12 GMT

#39

..... Ok progamer, how can it not be seen by the good foreign terrans than but somehow you have god's gift of seeing what the koreans do.

TvZ is the only m/u that comes to me where you can be creative with builds lately like fantasy and oov, but TvP and TvT are a pretty strict guideline that you cannot stray away from unless you wanna get skull bashed.

Naib

Hungary4904 Posts

March 18 2009 22:18 GMT

#40

On March 19 2009 06:47 Chill wrote:
I agree with your analysis. I've always the hardest part of learning each race is:
Terran - raw mechanics
Zerg - Larve management and army composition
Protoss - intuition

See, that's why Protoss is the hardest race - because you get a feel how the game flows, but you can't learn intuition unlike mechanics and army composition.