On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
Well not really. I did specify you. Plenty of other people are disagreeing with me here and I’m not considering them trolls.
On May 30 2025 22:11 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: I think Dewalt, xiaoshuai, and Mihu are close to hitting Movie's level, if they are not already on it.
I think they are already better than Movie, no? The guy lost to some random players during ASL qualifiers iirc. Or you mean Motive? Of course if Movie grinds hard I think he can crawl back into his ASL Ro24 level but he probably won't.
No. I meant Movie. Movie's improved a fair bit since that ASL Qualifier's loss. Motive is better than all foreigners. But Motive's weakest is MU is PvP. So there's a chance for Dewalt to edge him out in PvP. But Motive's better at PvT and PvZ.
Also Movie lost to Skey. Skey > all foreigners. Skey's a light version of Speed.
it would take someone who has tons of passion for the game, and is a billionaire to sponsor another guy who's talented and is crazy to give it a full time shoot.......................
In which case is a 1/(2^billion)*1/(2^billion) chance that would happen. Yes I am trolling math here
If there wasn't AI I might give it a shoot personally???? Out of pure childhood dream?
I'm retired at 37. Dropped out of high school for brood war at 17 xD.
But I think there are just a lot more interesting thing to do at this very moment in our human history.
On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
How you can say someone like idra or mondragon is more talented than a guy who broke the mold completly and after 20 years finally took a world championship beating Koreans at a Starcraft game in 2018.
Serral is infinitely more talented than any of them. Mondragon was a very good player for his time but he never stopped playing the game over a period of at least 10 years and during almost any given time except maybe 2005-2006 there were even other foreigners definitely better than him.
But you can't compare those scenes anyway. Foreign brood war pre sc2 were really just a bunch of passionate amateurs, nobody was playing the game full time, and nobody was making any real money. SC2, people made real money. The stakes mattered. And even if the Korean scene started dying off the last couple of years, there were still many household names with tons of kespa experience and in their mid 20's playing the game and competing with Serral. He destroyed all of them.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
On May 31 2025 19:09 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: Hands down Idra was really talented for sure.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
They were there trying at a good time honestly.
technically speaking we already have a foreign success story in Scan. He learned BW in America during his teenage years. While korean born he only went back to Korea after pretty much already being the best player not currently in Korea. He is a "foreign" talent in that sense because he spent a long time in America.
On May 31 2025 19:09 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: Hands down Idra was really talented for sure.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
They were there trying at a good time honestly.
technically speaking we already have a foreign success story in Scan. He learned BW in America during his teenage years. While korean born he only went back to Korea after pretty much already being the best player not currently in Korea. He is a "foreign" talent in that sense because he spent a long time in America.
This is not true. Scan was already insane when he went to the US. He just farmed from the US. I remember someone saying he was an online T1 practise partner but im not sure how real that was.
On May 31 2025 19:09 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: Hands down Idra was really talented for sure.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
They were there trying at a good time honestly.
technically speaking we already have a foreign success story in Scan. He learned BW in America during his teenage years. While korean born he only went back to Korea after pretty much already being the best player not currently in Korea. He is a "foreign" talent in that sense because he spent a long time in America.
Some what true, he also studied in China and speaks quite fluent Chinese too.................
Scan is the complete package, lol.
But I think being able to speak Korean really gave him a great edge in learning the game.
I donno if anyone recall how Pj was so dominate in foreign BW scene, but he told me iloveoov play him in practice game while he was training in SKT, iloveoov give him vision while practicing, and he can't do shit to iloveoov.......... the gap of the player skill back then was insane, and I think it still is. While mihu and some folks can take a game or two here and there, you would really have to factor in how serious the Korean player is.
It's nice to have pipe dreams If Artosis couldn't crack it given how much resource he is given due to his casting gig in Korea, I highly doubt if others can really do it, if anyone will be able to have that sort of privilege in the forseeable future. Granted some would argue Artosis isn't as talented as some of the others pro play wise.
long answer: While historically there have been foreigners who tried their hand in competing against KR players (and actually beat them), the fact is that the KR players in general are on a much higher level than any foreigner right now. Even guys like Mihu and Dewalt have difficulty fighting against KR players. It also doesn't help that we don't have a lot of younger blood who want to join the bw scene, and we dont really have stuff like team houses to help out with training.
Realistically, the only time foreigners have a good shot at beating the kr bw players is when these kr players are probably at their 40's/50's and are not as capable to pull off actions fast enough like in their prime. But that's a long way off, and even then it is still uncertain.
On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
How you can say someone like idra or mondragon is more talented than a guy who broke the mold completly and after 20 years finally took a world championship beating Koreans at a Starcraft game in 2018.
Serral is infinitely more talented than any of them. Mondragon was a very good player for his time but he never stopped playing the game over a period of at least 10 years and during almost any given time except maybe 2005-2006 there were even other foreigners definitely better than him.
But you can't compare those scenes anyway. Foreign brood war pre sc2 were really just a bunch of passionate amateurs, nobody was playing the game full time, and nobody was making any real money. SC2, people made real money. The stakes mattered. And even if the Korean scene started dying off the last couple of years, there were still many household names with tons of kespa experience and in their mid 20's playing the game and competing with Serral. He destroyed all of them.
So did Neeb when he first won anything as a white guy.... just right after all Kespa teams disbanded and almost everyone retired while the rest dis not give a fuck in 2016 anymore, or even earlier because the signs of a dead game was already evident when sc2 proleague had 5 live audience (with 3 cheer girls hired to cheer because it was so depressing) and like 1k stream viewership.
I like how the entire SC2 scene in these discussions conveniently ignore that the SC2 competition declined massively in 2014, and finally in 2016. For 20 years, no white guy won anything in SC2 and you guys hype up suddenly white guys dominating the game post 2016 as 'finally breaking the mold'? When suddenly all of pro soccer teams disband, you dont declare the random scrubs in the third league as the GOATs better than Messi or Pele lmao.
Bro there was no future for sc2 in korea and people already realized this in 2014 the latest. What a complete joke.
I swear SC2 guys would have hyped up earthlings like Yamcha and Krillin as the earth GOAT after non-earthlings Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten died.
On May 31 2025 20:43 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote: short answer: no
long answer: While historically there have been foreigners who tried their hand in competing against KR players (and actually beat them), the fact is that the KR players in general are on a much higher level than any foreigner right now. Even guys like Mihu and Dewalt have difficulty fighting against KR players. It also doesn't help that we don't have a lot of younger blood who want to join the bw scene, and we dont really have stuff like team houses to help out with training.
Realistically, the only time foreigners have a good shot at beating the kr bw players is when these kr players are probably at their 40's/50's and are not as capable to pull off actions fast enough like in their prime. But that's a long way off, and even then it is still uncertain.
Even in their 50s that would not happen. They did transition from childhood to teenagehood to adulthood with broodwar; the brain is so hard wired that they can play with great speed even to their 70s easy peazy. Just take a look at professional pianists, they can be old that doesn't prevent them from displaying outstanding speed.
This is 61 years old Sokolov (he even accelerates in second part). It is fair to assume that they will permanently kick everyone's ass until they pass away.
On May 30 2025 22:11 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: I think Dewalt, xiaoshuai, and Mihu are close to hitting Movie's level, if they are not already on it.
I think they are already better than Movie, no? The guy lost to some random players during ASL qualifiers iirc. Or you mean Motive? Of course if Movie grinds hard I think he can crawl back into his ASL Ro24 level but he probably won't.
No. I meant Movie. Movie's improved a fair bit since that ASL Qualifier's loss. Motive is better than all foreigners. But Motive's weakest is MU is PvP. So there's a chance for Dewalt to edge him out in PvP. But Motive's better at PvT and PvZ.
Also Movie lost to Skey. Skey > all foreigners. Skey's a light version of Speed.
In the Show Matches, Mihu, Zhanhun and XiaoShuai all won Movie. 20241207 XiaoShuai 4:0 Movie. However, it's true that Skey is stronger. Chinese players have hardly ever beaten him. The best result I've found recently is 20241214 Zhanhun 3:4 Skey
On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
How you can say someone like idra or mondragon is more talented than a guy who broke the mold completly and after 20 years finally took a world championship beating Koreans at a Starcraft game in 2018.
Serral is infinitely more talented than any of them. Mondragon was a very good player for his time but he never stopped playing the game over a period of at least 10 years and during almost any given time except maybe 2005-2006 there were even other foreigners definitely better than him.
But you can't compare those scenes anyway. Foreign brood war pre sc2 were really just a bunch of passionate amateurs, nobody was playing the game full time, and nobody was making any real money. SC2, people made real money. The stakes mattered. And even if the Korean scene started dying off the last couple of years, there were still many household names with tons of kespa experience and in their mid 20's playing the game and competing with Serral. He destroyed all of them.
So did Neeb when he first won anything as a white guy.... just right after all Kespa teams disbanded and almost everyone retired while the rest dis not give a fuck in 2016 anymore, or even earlier because the signs of a dead game was already evident when sc2 proleague had 5 live audience (with 3 cheer girls hired to cheer because it was so depressing) and like 1k stream viewership.
I like how the entire SC2 scene in these discussions conveniently ignore that the SC2 competition declined massively in 2014, and finally in 2016. For 20 years, no white guy won anything in SC2 and you guys hype up suddenly white guys dominating the game post 2016 as 'finally breaking the mold'? When suddenly all of pro soccer teams disband, you dont declare the random scrubs in the third league as the GOATs better than Messi or Pele lmao.
Bro there was no future for sc2 in korea and people already realized this in 2014 the latest. What a complete joke.
You take something with a grain of truth in it and take it to absolutely insane extremes.
Your rants do not just a disservice to the likes of Serral, but also to Kespa players at the same time. Who apparently cannot function outside a certain structure, have no motivation and forget how to play StarCraft entirely within 2 years.
"with a grain of truth" yeah right. The rise of foreigners absolutely has little to do with korean SC2 imploding and nobody giving a fuck anymore, while they absolutely would have all expected to get 0-4 the first round of WCS, which consisted of 1-2 foreigners while the remaining ones were all koreans.
The extreme levels of delusions the SC2 community suffers must be studied.
Seriously its all a bunch of Artosises at this point and the sane ones are long gone
On June 01 2025 02:19 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: "with a grain of truth" yeah right. The rise of foreigners absolutely has little to do with korean SC2 imploding and nobody giving a fuck anymore, while they absolutely would have all expected to get 0-4 the first round of WCS, which consisted of 1-2 foreigners while the remaining ones were all koreans.
The extreme levels of delusions the SC2 community suffers must be studied.
Seriously its all a bunch of Artosises at this point and the sane ones are long gone
Yes, and something most, or at least many, many SC2 fans agree with to some degree. It’s the grain of truth in a silo of nonsense
Crudely, a very, very common combo 1. SC2 dipped a bit in top end depth for sure. 2. Serral especially is so good they’d have been competitive anyway.
How much that dip was, and how good Serral is in alternate reality, will fluctuate, but I think most people accept those to some degree.
Your position 1. Without Kespa to hold their hand, veteran programmers forgot how to play within 2 years. 2. Serral isn’t as talented at RTS as Idra
If my partner puts on a few pounds, it is correct to say they’ve stuck on some weight. If we go by the Expensive-Law-9830 School of Hypberbole, I would be writing posts seeking advice on Reddit or w/e where I’d be claiming she is now literally the size of an Abrams Tank.
At best your positions are preposterously exaggerated. At worst, completely nonsensical.
On May 31 2025 19:09 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: Hands down Idra was really talented for sure.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
They were there trying at a good time honestly.
technically speaking we already have a foreign success story in Scan. He learned BW in America during his teenage years. While korean born he only went back to Korea after pretty much already being the best player not currently in Korea. He is a "foreign" talent in that sense because he spent a long time in America.
This is not true. Scan was already insane when he went to the US. He just farmed from the US. I remember someone saying he was an online T1 practise partner but im not sure how real that was.
I don't think Scan was a T1 practice partner during those iccup times when he first arrived. He was playing protoss and doing proxy gates only for quite some time.
On May 31 2025 19:09 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: Hands down Idra was really talented for sure.
And he really tried, I think Special(Major) was also possible to break through if given more time back in the days if SC2 didn't come out and everyone swapped.
They were there trying at a good time honestly.
technically speaking we already have a foreign success story in Scan. He learned BW in America during his teenage years. While korean born he only went back to Korea after pretty much already being the best player not currently in Korea. He is a "foreign" talent in that sense because he spent a long time in America.
This is not true. Scan was already insane when he went to the US. He just farmed from the US. I remember someone saying he was an online T1 practise partner but im not sure how real that was.
I don't think Scan was a T1 practice partner during those iccup times when he first arrived. He was playing protoss and doing proxy gates only for quite some time.
Now im joining here in unkown ground since i was a mediocre c rank with bad stats in 2009.
was A- 9400 rating not impressive at all ? cuz back then i could only dream about getting in that Only B rank channel LOL.
If Scan indeed reached that insane level in Usa that is truly impressive. But the word back then is that he was already freaking good when he went to the US. In fact didnt join a pro team for that reason.
On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote: This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved?
Thanks for your input Wombat
Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice.
One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that..
If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical.
Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit.
The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder.
Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL.
Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience.
No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good.
But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
Because everyone who disagreed with your points are automatically trolling. Great argument.
How you can say someone like idra or mondragon is more talented than a guy who broke the mold completly and after 20 years finally took a world championship beating Koreans at a Starcraft game in 2018.
Serral is infinitely more talented than any of them. Mondragon was a very good player for his time but he never stopped playing the game over a period of at least 10 years and during almost any given time except maybe 2005-2006 there were even other foreigners definitely better than him.
But you can't compare those scenes anyway. Foreign brood war pre sc2 were really just a bunch of passionate amateurs, nobody was playing the game full time, and nobody was making any real money. SC2, people made real money. The stakes mattered. And even if the Korean scene started dying off the last couple of years, there were still many household names with tons of kespa experience and in their mid 20's playing the game and competing with Serral. He destroyed all of them.
So did Neeb when he first won anything as a white guy.... just right after all Kespa teams disbanded and almost everyone retired while the rest dis not give a fuck in 2016 anymore, or even earlier because the signs of a dead game was already evident when sc2 proleague had 5 live audience (with 3 cheer girls hired to cheer because it was so depressing) and like 1k stream viewership.
I like how the entire SC2 scene in these discussions conveniently ignore that the SC2 competition declined massively in 2014, and finally in 2016. For 20 years, no white guy won anything in SC2 and you guys hype up suddenly white guys dominating the game post 2016 as 'finally breaking the mold'? When suddenly all of pro soccer teams disband, you dont declare the random scrubs in the third league as the GOATs better than Messi or Pele lmao.
Bro there was no future for sc2 in korea and people already realized this in 2014 the latest. What a complete joke.
Dude, SC2 came out in 2010, why are u talking about 20 years? The game had literally been out for 6 years in 2016.
And since you have a weird obsession for white boys, you’d be happy to know that both grr and slayer won Korean tournaments and were considered the best players at some point, so skin color doesn’t prevent you from being the best.
Also I’m surprised that Idra gets mentioned and not Nony. Nony came second in courage and imo is the player who would benefit most from strategical insight, so if the knowledge we have now had been available when he played, he’d gotten a lot further imo.
EPT
