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Northern Ireland25103 Posts
On May 29 2025 07:15 CicadaSC wrote:
"ever" means all of time, correct? well we already had that with IdrA... i heard when he was in estro he was regularly beating all the top koreans it was only when he joined cj did he have so struggles as a b teamer
Never did it in a tournament setting.
Even being a practice monster in a pro setup is in and of itself impressive, he didn’t push on though
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On May 29 2025 06:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2025 05:57 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote:This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved? Thanks for your input Wombat  Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice. One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that.. I lack SC2 knowledge. Would you say Serral is way stronger mechanically than Soo ? Im asking that question cuz Soo has comeback to BW but i have the feeling those SC2 mechanics not necessarily transfered to BW. Or atleast didnt show an impact i would say. (even if Soo had a BW background and a decent BW career before SC2). So Basically Serral would require to start from nothing. In SC2 he was, soO was a monster, Serral’s lategame with technical armies, on another level. Peak soO, if he’s just macroing and pumping out midgame armies, at his best, possibly better than anyone. But Serral would be close to his main strength, soO wasn’t really close when it came to Serral’s strengths I’m trying to think of a BW equivalent to how soO played SC2, it’s maybe Best. Crazy midgame macro, if he can roll you, he often would. If not, maybe that’s gonna be a tough game for him. A stylistic Serral equivalent? I really don’t know. It’s probably Flash. Not comparing the two levels, but they’re both at worst 8/10, generally 9/10 thru 10/10 at basically every element of the game. And the smartest players going. Nobody else has that package. Someone might beat Flash in a specific area if we were to do Top Trumps. He wins every other part of the card. Serral’s pretty similar to those not familiar with SC2. He’s not just rounded, and balanced, he beats most in the scene in every category.
This is interesting. Honestly i wasnt expecting you to compare Serral to FlaSh cuz he is more a build order optimizer. And i think Serral shines a lot with Multitasking while FlaSh is more a wrecking ball with a remote control. Overall like u said FlaSh is very solid in every area tho. And serral i would agree with that. But if he was to pick BW would be interesting what race he picks. Scarlett for example picked Protoss and i found She could use her multitask a lot while using shuttles and multitasking making units etc. Now i wonder If Serral is not a good fit for zerg then. And would need The Protoss or Terran aproach to really exploit his mechanics. Need to remember that zerg muta micro is by himself a thing to master and not easy by any means. Every matchup. Requires different muta micro. Sometimes attacking buildings or workers. Marines. Scourge all of them requires different techniques. I wonder if Terran would be a better fit to Serral tbh.
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Northern Ireland25103 Posts
On May 29 2025 07:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2025 06:28 WombaT wrote:On May 29 2025 05:57 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote:This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved? Thanks for your input Wombat Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice. One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that.. I lack SC2 knowledge. Would you say Serral is way stronger mechanically than Soo ? Im asking that question cuz Soo has comeback to BW but i have the feeling those SC2 mechanics not necessarily transfered to BW. Or atleast didnt show an impact i would say. (even if Soo had a BW background and a decent BW career before SC2). So Basically Serral would require to start from nothing. In SC2 he was, soO was a monster, Serral’s lategame with technical armies, on another level. Peak soO, if he’s just macroing and pumping out midgame armies, at his best, possibly better than anyone. But Serral would be close to his main strength, soO wasn’t really close when it came to Serral’s strengths I’m trying to think of a BW equivalent to how soO played SC2, it’s maybe Best. Crazy midgame macro, if he can roll you, he often would. If not, maybe that’s gonna be a tough game for him. A stylistic Serral equivalent? I really don’t know. It’s probably Flash. Not comparing the two levels, but they’re both at worst 8/10, generally 9/10 thru 10/10 at basically every element of the game. And the smartest players going. Nobody else has that package. Someone might beat Flash in a specific area if we were to do Top Trumps. He wins every other part of the card. Serral’s pretty similar to those not familiar with SC2. He’s not just rounded, and balanced, he beats most in the scene in every category. This is interesting. Honestly i wasnt expecting you to compare Serral to FlaSh cuz he is more a build order optimizer. And i think Serral shines a lot with Multitasking while FlaSh is more a wrecking ball with a remote control. Overall like u said FlaSh is very solid in every area tho. And serral i would agree with that. But if he was to pick BW would be interesting what race he picks. Scarlett for example picked Protoss and i found She could use her multitask a lot while using shuttles and multitasking making units etc. Now i wonder If Serral is not a good fit for zerg then. And would need The Protoss or Terran aproach to really exploit his mechanics. Need to remember that zerg muta micro is by himself a thing to master and not easy by any means. Every matchup. Requires different muta micro. Sometimes attacking buildings or workers. Marines. Scourge all of them requires different techniques. I wonder if Terran would be a better fit to Serral tbh.
Yeah those kind of questions are super interesting.
Hopefully we’ll see them answered sometime! I’m
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Biggest struggle for SC2 pros returning to BW has been late game, controlling large armies with 12 selection cap, and needing to select each building individually for production. That's the one core difference between the two games. At least I've been seeing both Soo, MC and TY struggle with late game.
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Its theoretically possible but will never happen in this timeline
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many SC2 pros have top mechanic in the RTS worlds also in Aoe2 like Hera has. They are not less talented like top SC1 pros. They are can do same level just as Scarlett said, theoretically possible but will never happen in this timeline because impossible for another reason. So i think the best what they can do its ASLro24 and top1 Foreign level of course, if they tried.
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Zerg would be by far the worst choice to engage with bw. You die in the most miserable ways possible, end-game is heavily unfavored, you need Bruce Lee speed and Omniscience level multitasking to just keep up with S rank kor Terran, mu are extremely different requiring a very wide range of skills, and its most likely you will not be consistent in all of them. Dealing with mech build is so hard that the shit could be a research subject for academics for the next 100 years. You are always behind in upgrades, you are always behind in supply. Playing zerg on fish server was pure masochism. You guys don't want to go down this path. Better go Protoss, much smoother and uniform race that allows you to brute force your way out to high rank much quicker.
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Step 1 - Get a lot of money from sponsors
Step 2 - Make Foreigner Team House based in Korea (combine with other games)
Step 3 - Get all the top foreigners in the Foreigner Team House
Step 4 - Play in every possible tournament and league for 12 to 24 hours a day
Step 5 - Qualify for ASL and be the first person eliminated
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what do "foreigners" have to prove?
trying to do this....why? just to prove it possible?
BW is such an individual (man-vs-self) game, at least as much as "man-vs-man"
but here with this stupid "foreigner" concept, we turn it into "man-vs-idea" (we'll defeat the "foreigner" < koreans ideology)
a foreigner non-korean in ASL will happen exactly at this time: when a non-korean individual decides they want a trophy for themself badly enough
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Northern Ireland25103 Posts
On May 30 2025 01:46 tankgirl wrote:
what do "foreigners" have to prove?
trying to do this....why? just to prove it possible?
BW is such an individual (man-vs-self) game, at least as much as "man-vs-man"
but here with this stupid "foreigner" concept, we turn it into "man-vs-idea" (we'll defeat the "foreigner" < koreans ideology)
a foreigner non-korean in ASL will happen exactly at this time: when a non-korean individual decides they want a trophy for themself badly enough
Why not? It’s a discussion purely within the hypothetical realm.
There’s not a sport around that’s properly dominated by one nation/region that there’s not some hype and interest if someone outside that tradition breaks through and is competitive.
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you would need to setup a team house in Korea and have a good group of foreigners with a few very very high level bilingual'ish Koreans (Scan type guys helping out) practicing daily for 1-2 years, they need to live the life (talking about the game together etc) and have an inhouse competitive setting to level up to compete vs top players
problem is most of these guys are 30 years+ so it's hard to commit that much time (especially with no monetary return, it would have to be 100% passion which is actually a good filter to have strong players emerge but you need to surround them with other similar players, it can't just be 1-2 ppl, more like 4-5) and having a team house costs $$, it would have to be sponsored and the return would have to be making content etc.
ideally you would have this setup with some younger players but that doesn't exist in foreign BW yet xd
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Hmm... the chinese scene probably can do it...setting a pro house in korea i mean.
then u can get Dewalt and Artosis + Show Spoiler +no troll, he said he wants to win ASL and i trust this man, hes been living off starcraft for 15 years...
that would be some epic content
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Nah you need someone younger and faster with a fresh mind set imo.
Artosis had his shot and he was nowhere near the top.
We need some new, hungry teenage nerds tbh bro
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I will say this, there are more resources now than there ever was thanks to streaming, vods, and cwal. However, everyone playing this game is older and with age comes more responsibilities. I just I don't know where people would reasonably find the time to play 24/7 when you have responsibilities in your life. Maybe there is some 30+ year old that made a bagillion off bitcoin and can sit on his ass and play SC 24/7 for the rest of his life and just grind ... but outside of that, I don't know where people will really find the time to catch up to Korean pros. You would literally have to be super financially set and have literally nothing going on in your life in order to give that a realistic try. That OR you would have to be a kid who's super passionate about a 25+ year old dead game.... which is a long shot.
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On May 30 2025 01:46 tankgirl wrote:
what do "foreigners" have to prove?
trying to do this....why? just to prove it possible?
BW is such an individual (man-vs-self) game, at least as much as "man-vs-man"
but here with this stupid "foreigner" concept, we turn it into "man-vs-idea" (we'll defeat the "foreigner" < koreans ideology)
a foreigner non-korean in ASL will happen exactly at this time: when a non-korean individual decides they want a trophy for themself badly enough
I actually think this is a great perspective. I am bearish foreigners but if there was someone deranged and intense enough to "decide" to do it, out of love for the game, I bet they could. Hypothetically.
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Even with 1 million BTC, the commitment is just not worth the gain, we aren't 15 years old anymore, there are things more valuable in life.
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I think Dewalt, xiaoshuai, and Mihu are close to hitting Movie's level, if they are not already on it.
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On May 30 2025 22:11 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
I think Dewalt, xiaoshuai, and Mihu are close to hitting Movie's level, if they are not already on it.
I think they are already better than Movie, no? The guy lost to some random players during ASL qualifiers iirc. Or you mean Motive? Of course if Movie grinds hard I think he can crawl back into his ASL Ro24 level but he probably won't.
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On May 29 2025 06:49 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote:This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved? Thanks for your input Wombat Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice. One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that.. If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical. Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit. The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder. Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL. Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience. No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good. But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level?
Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are.
And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
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Northern Ireland25103 Posts
On May 30 2025 23:48 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2025 06:49 WombaT wrote:On May 29 2025 05:49 Timebon3s wrote:This entire thread is literally people saying Koreans are way better than everyone else. Nobody said Serral would dominate the scene, it was just a question of how good he could get. So I don’t know where you get «constant glazing of white dudes» from. Sir, do you have some issues you need resolved? Thanks for your input Wombat Artosis has taken games off of progamers in bw, and he lost pretty hard against Scarlett, so it’s not entirely impossible that Serral could at least qualify for ASL with enough time and practice. One of the key differences now and during KESPA era is the wast amount of knowledge available after people started streaming, so there’s that.. If I was a rich man, which is a problem as I am not for this hypothetical. Assuming they’re actually interested and motivated, I think it’s borderline inconceivable that, with an actual coaching setup you couldn’t get Serral, or Clem, or Reynor to an ASL after a bit. The talent is obviously there, Clem was doing business after like a week versus people who’d been playing nothing but Stormgate. Serral streamed AoE4 for like a week to two and he was already up there on ladder. Give those guys a year+ with a coaching team, come on they’re making an ASL. Getting to a Ro8 or beyond, unless they’re actually prodigious at BW rather than ‘very good RTS player playing a new game’, I think probably takes a lot longer. You’re competing against programing legends with years of experience. No diss whatsoever, I miss his occasional casting these days, and he’s clearly fucking good. But really? In a hypothetical. Which this obviously is. Not just the greatest foreigner but arguably the greatest in SC2 history, with a coaching team couldn’t get to Scan’s level? Bro there are no sc2 pros right now. You saying how Serral did nothing and came back and dominated again is only a testament of how dead the scene is, not how talented these guys are. And yes, we had foreigners actually more insane and talented who trained out of pure passion for the game. Mondragon and Idra are infinitely more talented than whatever foreign sc2 ever produced, and at most they would be b teamers
You are just trolling at this point
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EPT
