EPTCrazy Zerg - Page 11
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TMNT
2939 Posts
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Timebon3s
Norway731 Posts
To me at least. And we act like the strategies and build orders they had in that time are somehow obsolete? The game hasnt changed one bit since those days so they are just as valid now as they were back in the days. I believe this game is so mechanincally dependent that a pro from 2010 would beat an asl champion of todays day and age. The mechanics of 12-15 hours of practice in a teamhouse with other super good pros cant be swept under the rug imo. | ||
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Puosu
6986 Posts
On August 08 2021 05:48 Timebon3s wrote: If you look at the game from the kespa times, the macro, army controll and overall tempo of the game looks much better than the ASL games. To me at least. And we act like the strategies and build orders they had in that time are somehow obsolete? The game hasnt changed one bit since those days so they are just as valid now as they were back in the days. I believe this game is so mechanincally dependent that a pro from 2010 would beat an asl champion of todays day and age. The mechanics of 12-15 hours of practice in a teamhouse with other super good pros cant be swept under the rug imo. but it seems that at least flash, zero and scan disagree with you ? | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway731 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On August 08 2021 02:11 krooked wrote: But new talent will have way better tools to learn the game, and stand on the shoulders of the work laid down by the Kespa pros of yore. That's exactly right. Armchair posters frequently downplay the contributions of theorycrafters who may be strategically-minded but not have the mechanics to execute at a pro level, when in fact it is those theorycrafters who are the true gateway toward innovating solutions in order to continue evolving the metagame. For example, on Grubby's War3 streams, he has a paid incentive to follow certain build directives. Most of the time they're silly (play your next game using only casters), but there is a guy in his chat named SaveOrcas who frequently donates to this incentive with new legitimate tryhard build order ideas. Grubby is known as an innovative player himself, so when he was playing many of SaveOrcas' request builds which were centered around Farseer first + mass Headhunters and found initial success, Grubby acknowledged that "there may be something viable here, let's try this in a few more high-skill games and see if we can develop it further". It eventually shifted game balance in multiple matchups and became a core build option for world-class Orc players, born in the year 2020 from the mind of a guy in the chat who did his research. The ideas for beating a strategy can come from anywhere, and although only pros will be able to optimize them, outright dismissing them with gatekeeper language like "you're not S-Rank so you don't get it" does nothing to further the cause and only contributes to circular logic and continued frustration for viewers and players alike. | ||
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GuiBz
Canada108 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
BW top players are purely koreans and who can speak to them? Only koreans. So brainstorming new strats without koreans playing em wont help anyone. So in the end you invent a strat which works vs noobs. Also there are plenty more ways of punishing new bold strats in BW. | ||
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LinYu_roy
Germany21 Posts
On August 08 2021 05:13 TMNT wrote: Not sure how the comparison between kespa and modern players was brought into this topic, but I think Flash himself said that kespa players have higher skill but players nowadays have more understanding of the game, so the latter would probably beat the former, but if you give the former some time to learn the new knowledge, they would beat modern players. +1 Zero has said the same, if I remember correctly. He said he used to play 30+ games per day back then, and if he played any less than that he could feel that his micro was off. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On August 09 2021 02:35 GuiBz wrote: I think it is all about delaying that 3rd base. Everything is gas expensive for the zerg. There's that little timing that anyone knows where T go out with stim and 2 medics before the Mutas. I think we should use that little timing to find the 3rd base and denying it. This can be strong, but its a complete gamble. If Z makes enough units and wipes it out, you're extremely far behind. | ||
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engineNOVA
United States67 Posts
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superovermind
4 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3400 Posts
On September 01 2021 14:52 superovermind wrote: What's the build order for this? Crazy zerg is more a type of transition and not really a build order. Essentially you get ground carapace upgrade when you can, then transition to hive during the muta phase (when your 3rd is up) while skipping lurkers and aim for ultras/defilers/cracklings with strong carapace upgrade and try to get more bases. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On September 01 2021 22:54 WGT-Baal wrote: Crazy zerg is more a type of transition and not really a build order. Essentially you get ground carapace upgrade when you can, then transition to hive during the muta phase (when your 3rd is up) while skipping lurkers and aim for ultras/defilers/cracklings with strong carapace upgrade and try to get more bases. Another way to look at it is as a playstyle, like mech vs bio. Crazy zergs most defining trait is imo 1) ultras 2) lack of defilers 3) fast carapace upgrades. Within these parameteres, players like ZeLoT gets some lurkers, others skip mutas entirely, or get a fair number of mutas. Some take 3rd before gas, other do it from 2H mutas and so on. | ||
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iopq
United States972 Posts
On August 03 2021 09:11 TT1 wrote: BW isn't black or white like that, a lower lvl player can't execute this b.o as good (relative to an equal player) because it requires good muta micro. They'll just get punished by bio pushes. There's a certain skill lvl threshold needed to make a b.o like this viable for Z. It's funny because this same concept applies to 2 base 5 fact 1-1 pushes, the style is easy to execute and you can beat players better than you. That said 5 fact 1-1 doesn't scale up well to higher lvls. Only make 7 mutas then? Terran has to respect the initial mutalisk production anyway, I had a guy not make that many turrets and he still lost like 10 SCVs to only 7 mutas. Not like he can counter when I have 7 sunkens in the front You can literally do it without mutas as well, but you need a ton of sunkens and some zergling/scourge for patrolling drops | ||
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des
United States507 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines583 Posts
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Jealous
10198 Posts
On October 23 2021 11:11 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: never has been and never will be, soma did everything artosis complained about and still lost to rush. crazy zerg being OP is terran propaganda People keep making the mistake of listening to Artosis, nothing new. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 23 2021 12:14 Jealous wrote: People keep making the mistake of listening to Artosis, nothing new. Man, its going to be weird when his kids can read english and start exploring TL and see us all BMing him and then wonders why and then discovers all the finely aged vintage artosis whine threads from the early to mid 2000s. Would probably have an identity crisis if I was one of those Artosilings. | ||
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flashimba
225 Posts
On October 23 2021 11:11 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: never has been and never will be, soma did everything artosis complained about and still lost to rush. crazy zerg being OP is terran propaganda Guardians are part of crazy zerg now? | ||
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