EPTBGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ - Page 18
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badbeatpete
25 Posts
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HaN-
France1920 Posts
Poll: Do you want 'BGH MMR' to add other maps to the map pool? No, I'd prefer it to stick to Big Game Hunters only. (26) Yes! I'd love to play on other maps aswell. (21) I'm not sure, it's worth a try I guess (3) 50 total votes Your vote: Do you want 'BGH MMR' to add other maps to the map pool? (Vote): No, I'd prefer it to stick to Big Game Hunters only. (Just testing the water with this poll, it's up to D3AD-R3TARD to decide whatever he wants.) As for maps suggestions: (6) Night Python + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/3LzGPcx.png) (8) Jungle Fortitude + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/374Ep6h.png) | ||
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Qvark
Sweden185 Posts
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Jealous
10253 Posts
On December 29 2020 16:18 t1mz_ wrote: The maps I posted are probably the best candidates. There are some others I didn't include due their similarity and obvious bugs. There are also blizzmaps, some of them are playable, but I believe community maps are superior to be considered. "people don't play these maps" is totally wrong. These maps are definitely being playing less than hunters, but still do. I hosted (6) Anti-Hunters for FFA and 3v3, and sometimes game lobby filled with people very fast. (Though I didn't include this map in the list above cause the map is very similar to (6) Sixth Sense and in my opinion Sixth Sense is better). BGH has monopoly and it is sad. When someone hosts a team game with a non-hunters map, people rarely join cause the fear of new and cognitive inertia (the similar story with korean players and Fighting Spirit for 1v1 ladder), so the hoster then forced to join hunters-game, thus feeding the monopoly. As a result people don't play other maps cause everyone plays hunters, and cause everyone plays hunters no one tries to play other maps - a vicious circle. The bghmmr bot actually has a power to break this circle. JUST. TRY. IT. Select two decent 3v3 maps from broodwarmaps.net (or do a pol to see what people like), make a pool with BGH and these two maps, rotate them on one bot and look what happens. My BW background is heavily laden with Blizz maps, weird maps, FFA, 3v3's not on BGH/Fastest, etc... That being said, I think that this is a bad idea. 1. BGH MMR will NOT translate well into "regular" 3v3 maps. The approach to these maps is, in general, vastly different to BGH or even Hunters play. This is perhaps the most important failing of this suggestion. 2. "Oh but tons of people join my games sometimes when I host non-BGH maps." Good for you, keep hosting them? Or perhaps make your own bot and do the same thing? Why bother trying to piggyback on someone else's project which is going well, but can't even support tiered matchmaking (D+/C+ and above games, etc.)? If the playerbase can't even be split up within BGH maps, why do you think it would be beneficial to anyone to split it up between different maps? Or is this entirely self-motivated because you don't like BGH, like non-money maps, etc.? 3. You say that "BGHMMR bot has the power to break this cycle" but I think that's a pipe dream. Anecdotal evidence may make it seem like people can fill up your games, but how often do you see these same players then hosting the maps on their own because they liked it? People may hop into your games because there are not many other options, or they want to try something new, but I suspect there is little staying power. Back in the mid-00s, when I played Blizz maps on East, it was generally the same 10-15 people who would join them from within our own Blizz map community, occasionally some total noobs or curious people would join, with very little retention over time. I suspect this is what you are experiencing too. There are plenty of reasons (you've touched upon some of them) why BGH has been the dominant 3v3 map for decades. It's incredibly embedded in the community, and there is a long history of BGH-exclusive communities as well. Instead of this change bringing people into new maps, it will just force people out to host their own BGH games. Even if everything else you say is true, it won't change the way that people like to play (and have liked to for years), nor will you change human nature (since you seem to be using that as part of your argument). New maps have been pushed on the Korean scene for over a decade since FS/CB release, but most games are still on those maps, I'm willing to bet they are the least veto'd, etc. So while there are people like yourself who continue to make new maps, push new initiatives, so on and so forth, it is quite clear where the community stands on these things as a whole. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean that others don't like it, and I think the proof is in the pudding here. You could suggest a hypothetically perfect 3v3 map and people still won't play it, just like people don't listen to their guidance counselors in school, parents, and government laws. Perhaps more importantly, they don't have to in order to enjoy the game. What percentage of enjoyment gain, on average, do you think this would bring to BGH players if they have fewer lobbies to play BGH and are presented with maps they have never seen before? Think about it. 4. Even if the poll seems divided above, the reality is that TL hardly represents the casual BGH gaming population. For the most part, BGH players are not interested in competitive play, don't have accounts on StarCraft websites/forums (at least not anymore - I believe there were sites in the past) - they just hop on to play BGH and that's it. | ||
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t1mz_
Russian Federation16 Posts
On December 30 2020 02:37 Jealous wrote: The approach to these maps is, in general, vastly different to BGH or even Hunters play. That is the point of diverse mappool - have different maps. And I believe balanced matches on the new maps can possibly "gain percentage of enjoyment" for an average BGH player as well. On December 30 2020 02:37 Jealous wrote: but can't even support tiered matchmaking (D+/C+ and above games, etc.) I believe this problem is related to how the games are organized. In another universe, where D3AD-R3TARD found a couple of people who can host the bot's virtual machines, matches could be organized by demand - whisper the bot with a command (other players do the same), bot sorts/splits players, creates a lobby, players join it - sort of automatic matchmaking. With such organizing it is easy to keep different tiers/leagues and reduce dodging. | ||
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Jealous
10253 Posts
On December 30 2020 15:38 t1mz_ wrote: That is the point of diverse mappool - have different maps. And I believe balanced matches on the new maps can possibly "gain percentage of enjoyment" for an average BGH player as well. I believe this problem is related to how the games are organized. In another universe, where D3AD-R3TARD found a couple of people who can host the bot's virtual machines, matches could be organized by demand - whisper the bot with a command (other players do the same), bot sorts/splits players, creates a lobby, players join it - sort of automatic matchmaking. With such organizing it is easy to keep different tiers/leagues and reduce dodging. Perhaps you can DM the bot* author to set it up yourself? Could be a good experiment  | ||
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Deleted User 556753
126 Posts
besides, Bot seems to cause Lag today. Had 2 games where bot disconnected, and after that, lag was gone | ||
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Deleted User 556753
126 Posts
and "Eusebiu" disconnects 3 out of 4 games | ||
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D3AD-R3TARD
Poland310 Posts
On December 30 2020 15:38 t1mz_ wrote: That is the point of diverse mappool - have different maps. And I believe balanced matches on the new maps can possibly "gain percentage of enjoyment" for an average BGH player as well. I believe this problem is related to how the games are organized. In another universe, where D3AD-R3TARD found a couple of people who can host the bot's virtual machines, matches could be organized by demand - whisper the bot with a command (other players do the same), bot sorts/splits players, creates a lobby, players join it - sort of automatic matchmaking. With such organizing it is easy to keep different tiers/leagues and reduce dodging. Is there a way to invite people to games in Brood War? So that only certain people can join other than password protection? I thought about a system like that, but creating password protected games and whispering password/game name to players seems kinda weak system. What I see with those games is that players don't want to wait for 3v3 match and want experience to be as close to a normal game as possible, so a system like that must work really fast and be easy to use. I work on getting more bots running, but I don't know how much time it will take. But then choosing players based on matching MMR and not just who enters the lobby the quickest might be an option. But again it needs to be easy to use because most bghmmr players will not go through a 5-step process of joining a custom game that takes 10 minutes - they will just join any other BGH lobby... On January 02 2021 02:25 IAMTHEONEO wrote: just spotted a D+ game, nice! besides, Bot seems to cause Lag today. Had 2 games where bot disconnected, and after that, lag was gone Yeah, there were some problems with connections, but I think I've figured it out. As for D+ games they run between 18.00 and 20.00 on one of the bots. On January 06 2021 20:41 IAMTHEONEO wrote: ban "maniek142" plz, random leaves game after 4min without saying a word or anything happening, replay available and "Eusebiu" disconnects 3 out of 4 games I saw a game and indeed there was nothing that justified leaving, but I don't know if leaving a game for some other reason (like kid crying or whatnot) should result in permanent ban. As for disconnects they are counted as leaving the game, so it makes no difference - it is reflected in player's MMR, so I see no reason to additionally punish people for this. | ||
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Deleted User 556753
126 Posts
I for myself have a personal blacklist meanwhile, and I just leave before start when they are in the game, especially ending up in my team. Better wait for the next game then, stuff like that just fucks me up. Would love to see some of the guys fucking games up regularly just not in there anymore, but in the end, not my decision. I think the D+ games just solve most of those problems by itself. Would love to see a permanent D+ or even C+ game running | ||
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Deleted User 556753
126 Posts
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Jealous
10253 Posts
On January 06 2021 23:09 IAMTHEONEO wrote: lol, just happened again, out of nowhere after 3min guy "e36m" just writes "bye bye" and leaves If you had to leave a game, how would you do it? | ||
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Deleted User 556753
126 Posts
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Timebon3s
Norway751 Posts
When people just write «bye» it’s probably some balance whine or bullshit going on | ||
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re4rum
2 Posts
I live on the West Coast and want to join. Am I able to do so? I try loading up the euro server but don't see this bot/game in UMS. Can anyone show me how? Thanks. | ||
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Jealous
10253 Posts
On January 08 2021 06:44 re4rum wrote: Hi all, I live on the West Coast and want to join. Am I able to do so? I try loading up the euro server but don't see this bot/game in UMS. Can anyone show me how? Thanks. 1. Need an account on Europe with 20+ wins. 2. Need to be online when the bot is online, which seems to be pretty early in the day Pacific time (something like 11 am to 4 pm your time). 3. You won't see the game up if the games are running. 4. They are Top vs. Bottom mode, not sure how you arrived at UMS. 5. If you want to add the bot as a friend to track when it hosts games, you have to change your actual gateway to Europe in the launcher, not just in-game. And you will need to wait for the bot author to add you back. | ||
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re4rum
2 Posts
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stawik
4 Posts
Such system promotes players who plays as little matches as possible and punishes players who plays a lots of matches. But this is only my opinion. | ||
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Jealous
10253 Posts
On January 11 2021 17:10 stawik wrote: Hi. I'm no expert but in my opinion there is something wrong with the MMR scoring point algorithm. I think so because recently for every lost match I get about minus 40-60 mmr points, and for every won match I get only +20 mmr point. In this situation, I need to have almost 75% won matches (!!!) only to keep my current position in the ranking. With such high win / loss ratio it is very hard to keep current position in the ranking and almost impossible to move up. Such system promotes players who plays as little matches as possible and punishes players who plays a lots of matches. But this is only my opinion. You just don't understand the system. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11687 Posts
On January 11 2021 17:10 stawik wrote: Hi. I'm no expert but in my opinion there is something wrong with the MMR scoring point algorithm. I think so because recently for every lost match I get about minus 40-60 mmr points, and for every won match I get only +20 mmr point. In this situation, I need to have almost 75% won matches (!!!) only to keep my current position in the ranking. With such high win / loss ratio it is very hard to keep current position in the ranking and almost impossible to move up. Such system promotes players who plays as little matches as possible and punishes players who plays a lots of matches. But this is only my opinion. The classic reason for something like this is that you play in games with distinctly lower rated players. In that case, the behavior you see is exactly what a sane system should do. Another possibility is that your side is generally higher rated than the other side. Imagine if Flash were playing in some of these games against random other people. You would expect him to win a very large percentage of games against lots of scrubs. So if he is at his expected high rating, playing in games with far lower rated players, he would lose a lot of points should he lose, and not win a lot if he wins, because the expected result is that he wins. | ||
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