EPTDay[9] talks Brood War hype, plans for new series - Page 7
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I'd ask you to back that up but we both know you can't and made it up.. jesus. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On April 16 2017 02:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I don't know if this is how Day[9] feels, but I can't play SC (1 or 2) without playing seriously. Like REALLY seriously... Trying to play five 1v1s every few months... I can't do that. When I quit BW in 2007 to play poker, I quit 100%, probably went a couple of years before I even played a game. When I quit SC2 in 2012, same story. I got to high masters a couple of times in HotS by just spending a couple of weeks playing super seriously and studying builds etc (actually in some ways more systematically than I did as a pro) and then quit again because it takes too much time, and I can't play the game without taking it super seriously. I love BW more than any other game I've ever played, but because I don't have time to play the game seriously I don't play at all  (I hope I'll find some time to play but I don't have high hopes)Maybe it's something similar for Day[9]. Yeah, that's a reason I thought of as well. When thinking about it I am like 'Yeah, this definitely applies to me as well' as in order to perform well several serious games on fish are a must for me while having less time to do it. But in reality I have several sessions every 3-4 months, offracing a lot, playing on setups I feel really uncomfortable in and so on alongside the feeling "I know I can play much better and I don't like that I just lost because of it". Yet I am still excited to play a bunch of PvZs as P (my main is z). There are other ways to have fun with BW too - plenty of UMS games, team games on hunters, micro polishing maps or w/e maps. I thought that should apply to others that were passionate and/or dedicated to the game as well. And as he streams frequently, it comes natural to think he will play once in a while. I don't even have to be playing or watching to enjoy BW. I mean, if you catch me in a good day, I will gladly dive into a hours long discussion about how FlaSh and Jaedong should be adapting to each other in various circumstances by build orders, micro management and so on and feel really good about it. Or tune in briefly in an LR or any BW related thread here and say something. Maybe he is more into more structured and comprehensive stuff than into scattered stuff chiming in here and there with an analysis of a game or series he really really liked. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On April 16 2017 06:42 iNcontroL wrote: btw telling people to not attack someone is NOT THE SAME as telling them to worship him Cele.. pull your fucking head out of your ass. i got tons of respect for day9, for Tasteless and for Artosis. I said it in my first post and second post and where i replied to you. Yet all you read is "im attacking Tasteless/Day9. I don't. I don't enjoy your attitude, coming into this forum after seven years and telling people who deserves credit and who doesn't. Because you have not the slightest clue about those seven years. Try to address what im saying please. I used to love your content and im very eager to do it again. I still have big respect for everybody who did stuff up to 2010. But please show some respect for those people who did stuff here when you were not around and don't brush it of by saying something like this: On April 16 2017 03:56 iNcontroL wrote: This thread has some really disgusting shit in here. Most of the people you guys are talking about did more for the BW scene than any one of you have ever done by a order of magnitude on levels you'd probably not like to hear about. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5588 Posts
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On April 16 2017 06:51 Cele wrote: i got tons of respect for day9, for Tasteless and for Artosis. I said it in my first post and second post and where i replied to you. Yet all you read is "im attacking Tasteless/Day9. I don't. I don't enjoy your attitude, coming into this forum after seven years and telling people who deserves credit and who doesn't. Because you have not the slightest clue about those seven years. Try to address what im saying please. I used to love your content and im very eager to do it again. I still have big respect for everybody who did stuff up to 2010. But please show some respect for those people who did stuff here when you were not around and don't brush it of by saying something like this: Dude but there is a limit being a fan and support for a scene and being obssesed by it... iNcontrol might moved on, but it helped to estabilish his career... but for you, you might want to breathe some fresh air and read what you wrote after some time... | ||
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FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
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TheEmulator
28085 Posts
On April 16 2017 06:51 Cele wrote: i got tons of respect for day9, for Tasteless and for Artosis. I said it in my first post and second post and where i replied to you. Yet all you read is "im attacking Tasteless/Day9. I don't. I don't enjoy your attitude, coming into this forum after seven years and telling people who deserves credit and who doesn't. Because you have not the slightest clue about those seven years. Try to address what im saying please. I used to love your content and im very eager to do it again. I still have big respect for everybody who did stuff up to 2010. But please show some respect for those people who did stuff here when you were not around and don't brush it of by saying something like this: I'm so lost, what does the last 7 years have to to with Day[9] coming back? He's not going to diminish what anyone has done in the last 7 years. No one is saying anything about those guys tbh. Incontrol's comment was directed at the people who have done nothing for BW unless I'm mistaken. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On April 16 2017 03:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: The idea that 'they could have at least played a couple games a year or whatever', that's nonsense too. Bw is no fun to pick up for two games every 4 months, especially if you're used to playing on a high level. And while yeah, the scene wasn't 'dead' from 2010-2016, but the activity isn't remotely comparable to how it was between 2007-2009, and for anyone living in a western country, the money you could possibly make from bw is completely negligible. Winning _every single_ defiler.ru tournament between 2010 and 2013 would make you what, $5000? Add every other tourney outside korea, I guess you can double that? I am unsure whether that relates to my comments, as I wasn't quoted, but in the case it was something that I wrote to provoke this response, I think there's some misinterpretation going on that I want to clarify. In relation to day9: The idea that I shared is that his tweets should not be praised as BW content. He can play any game he wants, and he can make a living out of everything he chooses to. He streams frequently. It only comes natural to wonder why he didn't discuss any BW on his stream for so long. Analyzing in-depth some series he really really liked on his stream once in a while wouldn't require too much time and resource involvement on his part and IMO wouldn't diminish his chances of making a living out of whatever he wants to. The "a couple of games/discussions every 3-6 months" apply here, and not to the foreigner scene part. in relation to the foreigner BW scene 2010-2015: Offline - there were absolutely no major LAN BW international events. (edit: besides the WCG 2010 which unfortunately had very low amount of BW players involved) Online - I do not argue that in this time period there were enough BW online tournaments to make a living out of BW. In terms of BW history, there were plently of sponsored tournaments online for foreigners in this time period even though the prizepools were relatively smaller. Mashing together the lack of offline events with the online foreigner scene by labeling the foreigner scene as a whole "completely dead" sounded disrespectful to me. I think ret meant no disrespect here and could have said it in a better, more respectful way. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On April 16 2017 07:59 LRM)TechnicS wrote: I am unsure whether that relates to my comments, as I wasn't quoted, but in the case it was something that I wrote to provoke this response, I think there's some misinterpretation going on that I want to clarify. In relation to day9: The idea that I shared is that his tweets should not be praised as BW content. He can play any game he wants, and he can make a living out of everything he chooses to. He streams frequently. It only comes natural to wonder why he didn't discuss any BW on his stream for so long. Analyzing in-depth some series he really really liked on his stream once in a while wouldn't require too much time and resource involvement on his part and IMO wouldn't diminish his chances of making a living out of whatever he wants to. The "a couple of games/discussions every 3-6 months" apply here, and not to the foreigner scene part. in relation to the foreigner BW scene 2010-2015: Offline - there were absolutely no major LAN BW international events. Online - I do not argue that in this time period there were enough BW online tournaments to make a living out of BW. In terms of BW history, there were plently of sponsored tournaments online for foreigners in this time period even though the prizepools were relatively smaller. Mashing together the lack of offline events with the online foreigner scene by labeling the foreigner scene as a whole "completely dead" sounded disrespectful to me. I think ret meant no disrespect here. agreed with everything said actually. Well said sir. | ||
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
We used to pride ourselves in playing a game that everyone else considered to be 'dead'. We used to pride ourselves in that our game survived WC3, outlived WC3, and was far far better than any more recent RTS. We played an old game no 'shallow' teenager would consider playing, because back then almost no teenager would start playing a game released many many years ago. Then SC2 happened. There was a short boom in popularity as SC2 was the most recent most novel RTS. And even for a short while, SC2 was the latest AAA PC gaming title around. So yes, Artosis and Day9 realized they could find a job in gaming, but that they would have to adjust to what is popular. So Day9 now does Hearthstone, even though he likes SC BW AND Magic more. That's fine. It is their job. But that does mean they are no longer a crazy passionate person doing something special. They are just like any other journalist out there, trying to get viewers for their own niche. Fine. But the elitism we prided ourselves with, that does no longer apply. So when Artosis or Day9 go back and try to invoke their old now lost elitism, they no longer have it. There are people who saw SC2 was inferior to SC BW, and they stuck with SC BW. There are people that saw SC2 wasn't so good, and they quit gaming, graduated college, got a PhD, and now have a job and can speak freely in SC BW or SC2. Day9 or Artosis could have done the same. Now, Artosis has no education. But Day9 has. He could have gotten a job, and be indepedent in his free time, and make Twitch/Youtube content. Artosis always talks about his Wallmart job. Let's also be real. Some of these people in SC BW, they ruined their teenage years and their education, pursuing their passion with almost no hope for any career in that field. Artosis was the only SC BW English caster that knew the game. And he adjusted to all other things. He is talented at that, so he was lucky and he escaped a professional disaster. I understand he understands how privileged he is to be having a nice paying job doing something for a job that isn't completely what he would be doing in his free time, but is very close in terms of fun. And he gets paid to do it. And he needs to be smart about keeping a job in a changing industry. So yes, these people 'sold out'. Let's not deny it. But that's not that bad of a thing. But it does force a certain amount of hypocrisy. When a personality claims they are really excited about this new game, because they believe that game will be a nice job opportunity for them, it isn't genuine. And if the game they depend on for their career isn't that good, they cannot go out and speak truth on that, bashing the game that is their livelihood. And that also means that a 'defense' for all these people that did the same thing, be it Incontrol or ret or whoever, they are also 'defending' their own actions. These top foreigner SC BW amateurs, they knew there would be opportunities with SC2. And they took them. Many had quite a few nice and unique experiences that wouldn't have happened in their life otherwise. I mean, even someone like FrozenArbiter, who wasn't even good at SC BW, managed to get a career in SC2 somehow. Of course that was also because of the Blizzard vs Kespa war, but it did give them unique opportunities. I played games with all these people back in the day, but I went my own way. Many of us weren't made for practicing hardcore like a Korean, or trying to carve out a niche as an internet personality. But some f us saw the commercial opportunity that was SC2, and it was very big. And they ran with it, even though they realized very early on that the game was very flawed, and kept very silent about it. Day9 or Artosis won't bite the hand that feeds them. And we cannot expect them to do so. If we want honest genuine independent opinions, we have to rely on amateurs. Oh, and what I always found annoying is that Day9 acted like he was a great SC2 player when he tried to become famous as a SC2 personality. He used to be the best American in SC BW. But he never had a career in SC2. He learned about SC2 by casting, not by playing. In SC BW, that would have been completely unacceptable. But in SC2, we SC BW people somehow accepted that from Day9. In the same way it pains me to see my SC BW heroes having switched to SC2, now switching back to SC BW again, to play games on Twitch. I cannot for the life of me understand Twitch. Why would I want to watch random practice games? I want to watch a finals with a 10 000+ people audience. It saddens me to see these people sitting in some cheap apartment, playing random games, when they have the talents to have a successful professional career. How many people actually had success in SC BW, quit, and had a great career? (btw being a poker player isn't a great career, no matter how much money you lost, and won). That saddens me a bit, and makes me satisfied in my own choices, but it still saddens me. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
imo I think his streams and videos of other games are pretty dog tier, but his BW content was one of the best things the English community ever had, period. The amount of depth in analysis of so many progames was a rare treat and he did it simultaneous with his studies and somehow didn't burn out. If he still remembers half the stuff he knew about BW before he will be an excellent caster. I would love to hear that kind of analysis again. And actually, he did a really good job with his SC2 videos too, especially in the beginning year, they were basically his BW analysis but more trying to understand the new game. Besides all that, even though I've played a tonne of BW, Day9 has probably played like 100 times as much, so I can never really say I love the game more than him even if he did make his money streaming other games lol. On some level you gotta appreciate that there's a difference between still loving a game you never mastered, and loving a game you feel satisfied you played at your highest realistic level. Plus I give no street cred to sour pusses. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 16 2017 06:42 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Yeah, that's a reason I thought of as well. When thinking about it I am like 'Yeah, this definitely applies to me as well' as in order to perform well several serious games on fish are a must for me while having less time to do it. But in reality I have several sessions every 3-4 months, offracing a lot, playing on setups I feel really uncomfortable in and so on alongside the feeling "I know I can play much better and I don't like that I just lost because of it". Yet I am still excited to play a bunch of PvZs as P (my main is z). There are other ways to have fun with BW too - plenty of UMS games, team games on hunters, micro polishing maps or w/e maps. I thought that should apply to others that were passionate and/or dedicated to the game as well. And as he streams frequently, it comes natural to think he will play once in a while. I don't even have to be playing or watching to enjoy BW. I mean, if you catch me in a good day, I will gladly dive into a hours long discussion about how FlaSh and Jaedong should be adapting to each other in various circumstances by build orders, micro management and so on and feel really good about it. Or tune in briefly in an LR or any BW related thread here and say something. Maybe he is more into more structured and comprehensive stuff than into scattered stuff chiming in here and there with an analysis of a game or series he really really liked. I did that too (random ums and 2v2 3v3 4v4), but I wouldn't want to stream it tbh. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
I think to paraphrase what Cele is trying to say: it feels a bit disingenuous when famous figures/casters jump on the SC:R hype train as if they were still equally as interested in it during the 7 or some odd years when they weren't in the scene. I don't think that diminishes who they are or what they've done for the scene, though. There really aren't that many negative posts in this thread, just people defending their views of personalities like Artosis/Tasteless/Day9 using excessive hyperbole to hype up games. We can have a civil discussion without throwing insults and challenges everywhere (iNcontroL). Chill the fuck out people. @Eridanus: Day9 does have a job. | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
On April 15 2017 15:33 ninazerg wrote: I like how he's like "StarCraft is the best game ever!", "I've been playing it since 5th grade!", "I can't wait for Brood War to come out!" ...dude, you left for SC2. So did everyone. Liking one thing doesn't mean you can't like other things. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On April 16 2017 08:17 EsportsJohn wrote: Well this thread blew up lol. I think to paraphrase what Cele is trying to say: it feels a bit disingenuous when famous figures/casters jump on the SC:R hype train as if they were still equally as interested in it during the 7 or some odd years when they weren't in the scene. I don't think that diminishes who they are or what they've done for the scene, though. There really aren't that many negative posts in this thread, just people defending their views of personalities like Artosis/Tasteless/Day9 using excessive hyperbole to hype up games. We can have a civil discussion without throwing insults and challenges everywhere (iNcontroL). Chill the fuck out people. you indeed summed up what im trying to say quite well. And people who demand respect should show some.  Nuff said, im done here. This thread is for Sean's content. Despite my feelings regarding casting "style", i repeat myself, im genuinly happy to see his new content coming up. This thread needs no further derailing, so i'll let it rest. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
On April 16 2017 02:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I don't know if this is how Day[9] feels, but I can't play SC (1 or 2) without playing seriously. Like REALLY seriously... Trying to play five 1v1s every few months... I can't do that. When I quit BW in 2007 to play poker, I quit 100%, probably went a couple of years before I even played a game. When I quit SC2 in 2012, same story. I got to high masters a couple of times in HotS by just spending a couple of weeks playing super seriously and studying builds etc (actually in some ways more systematically than I did as a pro) and then quit again because it takes too much time, and I can't play the game without taking it super seriously. I love BW more than any other game I've ever played, but because I don't have time to play the game seriously I don't play at all (I hope I'll find some time to play but I don't have high hopes)Maybe it's something similar for Day[9]. seriously... I was never great at bw... but it scares me how much i would need to dedicate myself to find enjoyment in playing again. I am allowing myself to enjoy the ASL and will probably pick up SC:R.. Still... its hard to explain this to friends that never knew about bw, or competitive gaming. | ||
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