LoveTV Starleague Season 3 AKA Korean Brood War 3.0
LoveTV Starleague is back and while the past two seasons were already ranking high in the top Brood War leagues to follow, the third is shaping up to become the biggest Korean Brood War league hosted in post-televised history of the game.
Players Terran - The Triumph of War Mind, HiyA, PianO, Mong, Sharp TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
Thirty one players are confirmed as of now and we are still waiting for the final announcement, but the little we were told should cheer up the heart of any Brood War fan: Once everything is prepared, the sixteen ex-progamers who have yet to stream on Afreeca will be announced one by one on a daily basis as a countdown to an offline group selection ceremony (not yet set in stone, a consensus with the players has to be reached as well).
The rest of the tournament is also going to be 100% offline, starting from the round of 32 all the way to the finals. Reserving the right studio is also what's currently causing the "delay" - as the organizer sOoL calls it, despite there never being any set date to begin with. Three commentators will bring you this epic action, two being already confirmed and the third being either an Afreeca BJ or someone else (work in progress).
Prizepool 1st Place ~ $50 000 2nd Place ~ $30 000 3rd Place ~ $5 000 4th Place ~ $1 000 Plus a bonus $100 for each win in round of 32, with the bonus gradually rising in each round.
As for the scale of the league, the prizepool is roughly ten times that of the 9th SonicTV Starleague. This means the organizers will require a Blizzard license to stream the event; sOoL is aware of this and is taking the necessary steps.
The sponsor of the Starleague is yet to be revealed, as is the schedule. Any further questions you may have will probably not be answered as this is all the information released as of now, but feel free to ask anyway~ Welcome to Brood War 3.0!
Note: The $50 000 (50 000 000원) isn't actually $50 000 but $49 118.33; same rounding has been applied to all cash values.
Seriously though, I hope the games are played on weekend so I can cast them live. The past couple of LoveTV leagues seemed to feature a lot of weekday games :S
On August 28 2014 23:44 Sayle wrote: inb4 Eywa is the sponsor
Seriously though, I hope the games are played on weekend so I can cast them live. The past couple of LoveTV leagues seemed to feature a lot of weekday games :S
Even if they are on weekdasy, will you still do English Rebroadcasts like SSL9? Those were still very enjoyable.
On August 28 2014 23:44 Sayle wrote: inb4 Eywa is the sponsor
Seriously though, I hope the games are played on weekend so I can cast them live. The past couple of LoveTV leagues seemed to feature a lot of weekday games :S
Even if they are on weekdasy, will you still do English Rebroadcasts like SSL9? Those were still very enjoyable.
Unlikely. My company moved offices so I now have a 1.5-hour commute, meaning no time on weekdays
Terran: Sea, Ssak, Ample Zerg: Kwanro, beast, Cola Protoss: Tyson, Mini, Jaehoon, Pusan, Guemchi Would be so nice if these players would be playing in the tournament too! :O
Could you imagine if the sponsor was OGN? They don't seem to have any interest in SC2 anymore and the OGN casters are casting a lot of BW events on the side.
On August 29 2014 00:20 Qikz wrote: Could you imagine if the sponsor was OGN? They don't seem to have any interest in SC2 anymore and the OGN casters are casting a lot of BW events on the side.
So, if there is such a big prize pool that they need a blizzard licence, it means that blizzard will be making money from brood war again, and that they might me interested in it again? So if there are such big event on brood war with big sponsoring, it means we could see many new players be interested in playing brood war in Korea, and thus new faces and a new professional scene? And if the sponsors are investing so much in brood war, it means there is still a lot of demand from the public, and thus a lot of potential profit, right? So brood war might very well get very big again in Korea, right? And if it gets very big in Korea, we could see new interest from foreigners, right?
I am dreaming of a brood war new patch or something, with a new unit in every race, new maps, new social possibilities from the game. All that without making the game more casual and less perfect. I am really dreaming of fresh air actually. Can all that happen?
If only blizzard got interested again in their best game, and if only the public as well.
EDIT : forget about the new units, just an automatch making, 10 k people playing the game, and new maps every season huhu #dreamingdreamingdreaming
^^ sonic had a license so i dont think much will change
Even had a friendly interaction with blizzard after like 1 day of pitchfork raising. Papa blizzard was going to shut sonic down, then got cool about it
The money Blizzard makes from the licenses is nowhere near the money they're operating with. The most you can expect from them is to make some PR out of it.
In other news there's a new post explaining some players missing in the lineup. For example, do not expect Bisu. He denied participation in both previous seasons stating he has no interest in afreeca leagues and since they had a lot of players eager to play they crossed him out.
bisu doesnt act like a competitor anymore, but as a lazy ass only streaming on afreeca. Well he's free to do what he wants, and he has already shown so much skills in many different tournaments, but common nothing's better than tournaments
The better news this brings is that this pushes the BW envelopes once again.
Sonic will most likely try to outdo this event with SSL10 in terms of production, getting more reputable players, and/or increasing the price pool. This in turn will generate more buzz, getting more views, and will catch more media attention. Next thing you know, more sponsors will look in at the still potential of BW to be invested in, LoveTV's next season can be even more lucrative and the cycle continues.
On August 29 2014 00:48 Xiphos wrote: The better news this brings is that this pushes the BW envelopes once again.
Sonic will most likely try to outdo this event with SSL10 in terms of production, getting more reputable players, and/or increasing the price pool. This in turn will generate more buzz, getting more views, and will catch more media attention. Next thing you know, more sponsors will look in at the still potential of BW to be invested in, LoveTV's next season can be even more lucrative and the cycle continues.
I'm only wondering what 41SL and BCTV are going to do about this. Maybe if they can't get the money, they can form their own smaller tournament for up and coming amateurs?
And what happened to Zeus Starleague anyway? Is that dead as Mong Starleague?
Love this news though I'm still a bit cautious about what it means for the future. I wish the prize distribution was changed just a bit since 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd difference are huge but then again, it'll at least provide motivation for players to prepare builds and such. Having said that, I'm excited for this. Group selection! Offline games! Big Prize pool! Unannounced Players! All sound great to me! :D
On August 29 2014 00:58 Xiphias wrote: This is fantastic news! Flash, time to come back!
not while he has an 80% winrate in SC2 over the last few months
Flash singlehandedly destroying sc2 so that they all other kespa players come back to bw as they cant win shit anymore.
That's actually a really good point considering that currently the competition is so stacked in Korea that more former successful BW players may be given another option, assuming Sonic and LoveTV can keep the momentum.
On August 29 2014 01:24 ninazerg wrote: Is it 50,000 dollars or 50,000 won?
Read the post:
On August 28 2014 22:24 Stratos wrote: Note: The $50 000 (50 000 000원) isn't actually $50 000 but $49 118.33; same rounding has been applied to all cash values.
On August 29 2014 00:58 Xiphias wrote: This is fantastic news! Flash, time to come back!
not while he has an 80% winrate in SC2 over the last few months
Flash singlehandedly destroying sc2 so that they all other kespa players come back to bw as they cant win shit anymore.
That's actually a really good point considering that currently the competition is so stacked in Korea that more former successful BW players may be given another option, assuming Sonic and LoveTV can keep the momentum.
I am switching more to the feeling that blizzard should ruin sc2 more and more. I am hoping that protoss will continue winning with bullshit and that blizzard will majorly screw up Lotv with more bullshit units (they do not really have a good track record considering HOTS). Its complicated: I do not have much hope anymore for blizzard and on the other hand I am happy that they screw up.
That being said: I think for many former BW and now SC2 players, Broodwar is like your ex-gf you had amazing fun with amazing personality and character. She was the ONE you always imagined to be with forever until you die. Then some new girl on the town arrived who was arguably hotter and you left your ex-gf for this new girl. The first few weeks may have been exciting and thrilling as everything was new. However it became repetitive and boring after a while and you had to deal with same bullshit all the time. You thought to yourself: "Everything is gonna be better, our relationship is not figured out yet". But the deeper you got into the relationship, the more you realize how much you miss your ex-gf, how much your current relationship is going nowhere and wanting to have everything as it has been before you left her.
Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
That beautiful story will prove that the passion for the greatest RTS in the world will triumph over anything.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
Also we shouldnt forget the people who grew up watching boxer vs yellow, oov vs july, jaedong vs flash... They are now are going to be the new middle class and the majority in korea now. Its not just kids who play games, whose majority prefer to play LOL. Adults who are working the whole day would rather want to watch BW than play it since it is kinda demanding. They rather play LOL to relax after a long day or watch some good ol BW.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
That's like saying: "Oh everybody in the states or in my country is playing football, hockey, and/or basketball."
While yes there were over 30 players in my high school football team but there are also tennis teams, swim teams and etc. While yes LoL is insanely popular over there, people will ALWAYS like to have more varieties in terms of esports. So there will definitely be kids that would want to play BW instead with different special set of skills.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
That's like saying: "Oh everybody in the states or in my country is playing football, hockey, and/or basketball."
While yes there were over 30 players in my high school football team but there are also tennis teams, swim teams and etc. While yes LoL is insanely popular over there, people will ALWAYS like to have more varieties in terms of esports. So there will definitely be kids that would want to play BW instead with different special set of skills.
Ok fair enough, but do we have any stats? I think lol is at the top of the games being played by such a huge margin that i don't see kids trying to become pro in BW tbh. Without Kespa itself i just can't see how the scene can really become "sustainable" again. But hey, maybe i am completely wrong (and tbh i would like it to be that way, i never "had the chance" to follow BW in the glory days) and BW really rises to the place where it belongs.
the teenagers 15 years ago ( old friends of mine) still refer to starcraft broodwar as THE PC game that dominated their childhood lives they can still tell lively stories about legendary grudge matches , epic battles or funny anecdotes about players in their bw scene of that time
broodwar sticks with anyone who plays it for a decent amount of time
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
I don't care if sc2 dies or not. I only want KESPA to switch back to BW. I also want blizzard to not interfere in BW and try to keep it down or to subsidize SC2 even further. I want Bunkie back, the cute bisu fangirl, extremely exciting die hard fans and fangirls. Have you seen the GSL broadcast? It is sometimes so sad how they feel the need to pay girls to cheer in order to keep the illusion alive that people care for sc2. People care for the players they grew up watching in bw, not about the game. I only watch sc2 if Flash, Stats, Soulkey, Jaedong, Stork etc are playing. I couldn't care less for the ESF players. I hope that Kespa will one day go back to BW after seeing how much people still care, how many die hard fans there still are. You can have SC2. But please let me have my BW back...
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
That's like saying: "Oh everybody in the states or in my country is playing football, hockey, and/or basketball."
While yes there were over 30 players in my high school football team but there are also tennis teams, swim teams and etc. While yes LoL is insanely popular over there, people will ALWAYS like to have more varieties in terms of esports. So there will definitely be kids that would want to play BW instead with different special set of skills.
Ok fair enough, but do we have any stats? I think lol is at the top of the games being played by such a huge margin that i don't see kids trying to become pro in BW tbh. Without Kespa itself i just can't see how the scene can really become "sustainable" again. But hey, maybe i am completely wrong (and tbh i would like it to be that way, i never "had the chance" to follow BW in the glory days) and BW really rises to the place where it belongs.
No esports game is sustainable right now except Dota and LOL and I don't even know how long this will be. SC2 is only sustainable because of blizzards money. The BW scene will learn from the past that too much prize money will not be sustainable. Also running a TV broadcast 24/7 is extremely expensive itself. And BW had two of them (for a short period even 3 TV stations broadcasting BW). Why shouldnt it be sustainable without Kespa? I don't see your line of reasoning there... I think that LOVETV and SSL should merge. We only need one prestigious starleague. Maybe they should push it into amateur leagues and pro leagues.
On August 29 2014 02:41 broodwar2.0 wrote: the teenagers 15 years ago ( old friends of mine) still refer to starcraft broodwar as THE PC game that dominated their childhood lives they can still tell lively stories about legendary grudge matches , epic battles or funny anecdotes about players in their bw scene of that time
broodwar sticks with anyone who plays it for a decent amount of time
This reminds of SSBM and why Melee is doing so well now compared to Brawl. People played melee in their childhood; and watching the 5 Gods of Smash duke it out will draw out even the deepest memories.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
That's like saying: "Oh everybody in the states or in my country is playing football, hockey, and/or basketball."
While yes there were over 30 players in my high school football team but there are also tennis teams, swim teams and etc. While yes LoL is insanely popular over there, people will ALWAYS like to have more varieties in terms of esports. So there will definitely be kids that would want to play BW instead with different special set of skills.
Ok fair enough, but do we have any stats? I think lol is at the top of the games being played by such a huge margin that i don't see kids trying to become pro in BW tbh. Without Kespa itself i just can't see how the scene can really become "sustainable" again. But hey, maybe i am completely wrong (and tbh i would like it to be that way, i never "had the chance" to follow BW in the glory days) and BW really rises to the place where it belongs.
its all speculation IF something starts snowballing... sky is the limit thats how it works more viewers more sponsors more moneey more legends ETCETC
I think the second coming of broodwar will both depend on how this tournament turns out and how sc2 will be after lotv. While I hope for a broodwar return, I certainly don't see any other RTS game, that is threatening starcrafts place in esports. Inb4 warcraft 4.
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
I don't care if sc2 dies or not. I only want KESPA to switch back to BW. I also want blizzard to not interfere in BW and try to keep it down or to subsidize SC2 even further. I want Bunkie back, the cute bisu fangirl, extremely exciting die hard fans and fangirls. Have you seen the GSL broadcast? It is sometimes so sad how they feel the need to pay girls to cheer in order to keep the illusion alive that people care for sc2. People care for the players they grew up watching in bw, not about the game. I only watch sc2 if Flash, Stats, Soulkey, Jaedong, Stork etc are playing. I couldn't care less for the ESF players. I hope that Kespa will one day go back to BW after seeing how much people still care, how many die hard fans there still are. You can have SC2. But please let me have my BW back...
On August 29 2014 01:56 adymus wrote: Duke91 i really understand you men but to be clear of something :D If SC2 dies , starcraft 1 wont take its place , the amount of people thath will play starcraft 1 its 0 and i mean for kids 13-14 years now or younger/older. I really dont see the hate for blizzard and starcraft 2 .
Ok SC2 dies then you will never see any dreamhack or other tournament for starcraft ! why ? well people dont like thath old game , people love CSGO , DOTA 2 , LOL games thath are new and eazy to play , not an RTS old and ugly for them , not a game so hard thath its boring to play
I get the feeling bro , i love Starcraft 1 too , i played from start to finish evry week watched evry tournament i could , even now i watch the new ones , but to hope for thath its a stupid thing really
Dont get me wrong , i dont want starcraft 1 to disapear , but SC1 wont reapear in KOREA , why ? because new koreans kids love other games , ya its fun to see it once but its not fun to play a game so hard for them
Anyway sorry for this long post , I really hope all will be good with SC2 nad SC1 <3 much love and hypeeee!!!!!! for this cash
SC2 dies, the pros either retire, go to army, or stream BW for some cash. With the old favorite back, this very likely will trigger the big sponsors to host another huge BW league. The narrative will be huge: "Korea progaming goes back to its root." BW progaming will get lucrative again and will generate a lot more interests and therefore get more people playing.
Cmon, just enjoy what is happening right now and don't be so naive about this kind of stuff. Sc2 won't die over night, if anything we hear it is growing in korea (proleague) and the new addon will probably help too. Also korea is allin on lol right now, why should any kid play BW instead? It just doesn't make any sense man...
That's like saying: "Oh everybody in the states or in my country is playing football, hockey, and/or basketball."
While yes there were over 30 players in my high school football team but there are also tennis teams, swim teams and etc. While yes LoL is insanely popular over there, people will ALWAYS like to have more varieties in terms of esports. So there will definitely be kids that would want to play BW instead with different special set of skills.
Ok fair enough, but do we have any stats? I think lol is at the top of the games being played by such a huge margin that i don't see kids trying to become pro in BW tbh. Without Kespa itself i just can't see how the scene can really become "sustainable" again. But hey, maybe i am completely wrong (and tbh i would like it to be that way, i never "had the chance" to follow BW in the glory days) and BW really rises to the place where it belongs.
No esports game is sustainable right now except Dota and LOL and I don't even know how long this will be. SC2 is only sustainable because of blizzards money. The BW scene will learn from the past that too much prize money will not be sustainable. Also running a TV broadcast 24/7 is extremely expensive itself. And BW had two of them (for a short period even 3 TV stations broadcasting BW). Why shouldnt it be sustainable without Kespa? I don't see your line of reasoning there... I think that LOVETV and SSL should merge. We only need one prestigious starleague. Maybe they should push it into amateur leagues and pro leagues.
Actually, I would love it if they stayed separated but alternated. There would be one every 6 months(SSL then LoveTV then SSL etc...) and in between there can be smaller tournaments like atm. The smaller tournaments could help new players get into the scene and the two bigger tournaments would resemble the OSL/MSL with their higher prize pool and open qualifiers (if there are enough people).
On August 29 2014 02:59 Ttrome wrote: I think the second coming of broodwar will both depend on how this tournament turns out and how sc2 will be after lotv. While I hope for a broodwar return, I certainly don't see any other RTS game, that is threatening starcrafts place in esports. Inb4 warcraft 4.
Warcraft 4 won't be coming anytime soon. Blizzard botched the franchise I loved with their cash cow WoW Yes, as it stands, there aren't many RTS games and nothing that really compared to BW.
Also I think we now don't need more prize money. Take away 10000 dollar of that and someone decent make us a server with automated match-making and well functioning auto-portforwarding (even if portforwarding doesn't work, make something like auto lat trick as I discussed before. I think this should be easy to implement but I could be wrong)
1st Place ~ $50 000 2nd Place ~ $30 000 3rd Place ~ $5 000 4th Place ~ $1 000 Plus a bonus $100 for each win in round of 32, with the bonus gradually rising in each round.
[/big][/big] is this real life? isn't this even bigger than the old osl/msl/gom/wcg prizepools??
On August 29 2014 00:48 Xiphos wrote: The better news this brings is that this pushes the BW envelopes once again.
Sonic will most likely try to outdo this event with SSL10 in terms of production, getting more reputable players, and/or increasing the price pool. This in turn will generate more buzz, getting more views, and will catch more media attention. Next thing you know, more sponsors will look in at the still potential of BW to be invested in, LoveTV's next season can be even more lucrative and the cycle continues.
My thoughts exactly. Nothing quite like a little competition to stir things up.
Maybe Sonic can take some production pointers from the PLU Shanghai event... more cameras, teasers/trailers, studio lighting/smoke. I'd love to see a bit more cash go into the production elements, alongside a larger money pot. Hopefully to draw in the casual fan, beyond those, like us, just seeking strong game play.
1st Place ~ $50 000 2nd Place ~ $30 000 3rd Place ~ $5 000 4th Place ~ $1 000 Plus a bonus $100 for each win in round of 32, with the bonus gradually rising in each round.
is this real life? isn't this even bigger than the old osl/msl/gom/wcg prizepools??
[/big][/big]
Yes. But we need to keep in mind that production of a OSL was higher in cost due to having TV broadcast.
1st Place ~ $50 000 2nd Place ~ $30 000 3rd Place ~ $5 000 4th Place ~ $1 000 Plus a bonus $100 for each win in round of 32, with the bonus gradually rising in each round.
is this real life? isn't this even bigger than the old osl/msl/gom/wcg prizepools??
In comparison the 2011 Jin Air OSL has
Total prize pool: 108K Winner: 40k Runner-up: 20k Ro36 - 1st/2nd/3rd: $250/$150/$100 Ro16 - 8 players who didn't make it to Ro8: $2000 each Ro8 - 4 players who didn't make it to Ro4: $3000 each 3rd/4th place: $7000 each
On August 29 2014 12:42 Caladbolg wrote: FANTASY PLS (yeah he kinda sucks in SC2 now)
yeaaaah exacly they suckass in sc2 just like bisu rite ive heard fantasy/bisu multitask was to high for sc2 they had to be forced to stop clicking so much
you know, they could quite easily have had the prize money be 40/25/10/10, have equal levels of hype, and not have the tournament have under the table deals when it gets to the last 4
with 16 ex-pros it pretty much is guaranteed some have to be some current progamers (eg Turn or honsin (aka bravo) or skyhigh for terrans) and the event organizers are clearly taking the philosophy that they want things 100% confirmed before deciding to release other TBAs
because some of the TBAs such as the very-likely-to-be-announced Leta will build hype but no one is going to be surprised if Leta shows up and announcing Leta wouldn't cause any PR issues with announcing players that have yet to retire officially. But the organizers must want one big hype announcement of sponsor(s) + new players rather than releasing in chunks.
Eg even if people in-the-know knew Zero was retiring after woongjin fell, people waited for the formal retirement announcement. I forgot when he started streaming to afreeca after his retirement though.
quick edit-- and I'm sure many progamer contracts are up for renewal/resigning/cancellation given that proleague ended in august. I'm sure many players have contracts for X years or Y months but I have to imagine contracts with the kespa teams will also be built around proleague years to some extent. No point forcing someone who wants to retire to sit around for 3 months without proleague or drafting up the contract like that in the first place.
There are no dates or estimates. They'll just release the dates when they know, at least that's how they operated until now.
There is a new announcement from sOoL however.
To sum it up, there's still been quite a lot of posts about ppl like sSak and others being left out for not showing interest until they heard about the prizepool. sOoL and sponsor monitored the situation and eventually decided to move 2 TBAs and 1 TBA to the event league/super matches (probably some weaker/unreliable ones) and replace them with Lazy, GuemChi and sSak. The 2 protosses are confirmed, sSak not yet.
On September 02 2014 03:53 Stratos wrote: There are no dates or estimates. They'll just release the dates when they know, at least that's how they operated until now.
There is a new announcement from sOoL however.
To sum it up, there's still been quite a lot of posts about ppl like sSak and others being left out for not showing interest until they heard about the prizepool. sOoL and sponsor monitored the situation and eventually decided to move 2 TBAs and 1 TBA to the event league/super matches (probably some weaker/unreliable ones) and replace them with Lazy, GuemChi and sSak. The 2 protosses are confirmed, sSak not yet.
Seems like sSak didn't want to pass up a great opportunity.
The new TBA 2 Protoss and 1 Terran probably wasn't prepared enough. But are they still going to be part of the countdown?
On September 02 2014 17:41 Phyanketto wrote: It seems like it'd be sort of stupid of exclude people because they didn't jump at the chance to play until they heard about the prizepool.
Yeah exactly, the quality of the games is what counts here!
Btw it's Chuseok in Korea so that means ppl go home to see parents, go up mountains to take care of graves etc. So probably not much being done these last few days.
On September 09 2014 23:55 Stratos wrote: There's nothing, ketizens are slowly getting impatient as well. I'd ask Love but she hasn't been talking to me ever since the EleGant incident
haha well, it was just for fun and she knew that so I doubt she's mad or anything seeing as that was a long time back.
I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
Most likely an organisation which disappears in a few months without paying their stuff :/
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
Most likely an organisation which disappears in a few months without paying their stuff :/
Sick burn.
I'm more concerned over the other SKT Terran sSak, with Sea probably not making it, what could possibly taking sSak so long to be confirmed? Has anyone spoken to him lately?
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
Most likely an organisation which disappears in a few months without paying their stuff :/
Sick burn.
I'm more concerned over the other SKT Terran sSak, with Sea probably not making it, what could possibly taking sSak so long to be confirmed? Has anyone spoken to him lately?
I don't think he's joking >.> There's been some shady organization in SCII that don't pay players for months then disband etc...
Maybe he is confirmed already, but there's not been any updates from Love for the past ~10 days. I'm guessing (hoping) they're super busy trying to secure the place and finish the deal etc.
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
Most likely an organisation which disappears in a few months without paying their stuff :/
Sick burn.
I'm more concerned over the other SKT Terran sSak, with Sea probably not making it, what could possibly taking sSak so long to be confirmed? Has anyone spoken to him lately?
I don't think he's joking >.> There's been some shady organization in SCII that don't pay players for months then disband etc...
Yeah i was not joking... I don't even understand the context if "sick burn" tbh :D
This is so great that im actually posting a message since ive been lurking for some time. Hope some of the teamliquid community will commentate it in english. Great news!!!!!
On September 12 2014 00:27 eviltomahawk wrote: I still think Fantasy and Hydra will keep playing sc2, especially since Fantasy is streaming sc2 right now and Hydra already laid out plans to join a foreign team and play in WCS EU/NA.
However, I don't think this completely rules out their participation in LoveTV. It wouldn't hurt to play a few matches even if they're rusty.
It's possible. I just don't see who would pick up either players tbh. Fantasy isn't even Code S (even if he can still play well) and though Hydra is a better player, he's not in a position to bargain his way into a foreign team either.
Most likely an organisation which disappears in a few months without paying their stuff :/
Sick burn.
I'm more concerned over the other SKT Terran sSak, with Sea probably not making it, what could possibly taking sSak so long to be confirmed? Has anyone spoken to him lately?
I don't think he's joking >.> There's been some shady organization in SCII that don't pay players for months then disband etc...
Yeah i was not joking... I don't even understand the context if "sick burn" tbh :D
lol ya, I dunno what HyralGambit was talking about either XD I've seen many such organization in my time in the SCII forum so yep, just hoping Fantasy is careful about what he does next.
^ Rain is still pretty solid so I can see him getting picked up. It's hard to see Fantasy and hydra though because there's both less accomplished than Rain (or Parting or the other ones that need a team like Squirtle etc...).
On September 12 2014 11:32 digmouse wrote: Both Fantasy and Hydra expressed the desire to join a foreign team so very unlikely.
that seems like the typical 'statement' nowadays. Not saying it's not true but who knows what their thoughts are atm.
Well, various contract negotiations and terminations keep occuring so as expected, Love probably had to wait on some upcoming names to formally announce before going forward
granted big names may still continue as sc2 progamers, some of those TBA's just have to be on current kespa rosters
What if... Kespa is going to full switch back to BW and the progamers recently becoming free agent wanted to stay in SC2 so that they are now looking for a foreign team?
foreign teams are not a haven like what some all of these "sheltered" kespa players may think...for players less accomplished like fantasy and hydra its not very likely they would succeed even if they are signed by a foreign team...people like inno, trap,genius,sea have all left those teams after a while, every korean that been to eg slumps to rot.
well "consolation" is that it would might hasten their exit to BW.
to quote from nerchio :"Looks like they heard too many fairy tales before going to bed."
On September 12 2014 15:02 N.geNuity wrote: Well, various contract negotiations and terminations keep occuring so as expected, Love probably had to wait on some upcoming names to formally announce before going forward
granted big names may still continue as sc2 progamers, some of those TBA's just have to be on current kespa rosters
my thoughts too, has to be the reason she is waiting to announce the players.
On September 12 2014 19:04 duke91 wrote: What if... Kespa is going to full switch back to BW and the progamers recently becoming free agent wanted to stay in SC2 so that they are now looking for a foreign team?
LoL is Kespa's new BW :/
On September 12 2014 20:41 Probemicro wrote: foreign teams are not a haven like what some all of these "sheltered" kespa players may think...for players less accomplished like fantasy and hydra its not very likely they would succeed even if they are signed by a foreign team...people like inno, trap,genius,sea have all left those teams after a while, every korean that been to eg slumps to rot.
well "consolation" is that it would might hasten their exit to BW.
to quote from nerchio :"Looks like they heard too many fairy tales before going to bed."
It's probably the thoughts of just traveling and moving away from a strict training schedule though ya, it's totally different and it won't fit some of them. Sea didn't like the game and retired soon after though I don't think he should be used as an example.
On September 12 2014 20:41 Probemicro wrote: foreign teams are not a haven like what some all of these "sheltered" kespa players may think...for players less accomplished like fantasy and hydra its not very likely they would succeed even if they are signed by a foreign team...people like inno, trap,genius,sea have all left those teams after a while, every korean that been to eg slumps to rot.
well "consolation" is that it would might hasten their exit to BW.
to quote from nerchio :"Looks like they heard too many fairy tales before going to bed."
It's probably the thoughts of just traveling and moving away from a strict training schedule though ya, it's totally different and it won't fit some of them. Sea didn't like the game and retired soon after though I don't think he should be used as an example.
Considering that their skill will decline with a foreign team, it could mean that: 1) They will join the army soon after their time abroad 2) Retire completely but earn some more money before/see the world, then join the army 3) Want to earn money before switching back part-time to BW
On September 12 2014 15:02 N.geNuity wrote: Well, various contract negotiations and terminations keep occuring so as expected, Love probably had to wait on some upcoming names to formally announce before going forward
granted big names may still continue as sc2 progamers, some of those TBA's just have to be on current kespa rosters
my thoughts too, has to be the reason she is waiting to announce the players.
Exactly what I thought. Waiting for the KESPA contracts to run out to invite 1-2 KESPA player
On September 15 2014 17:52 Probemicro wrote: you would think at least a few of them have started practicing in fish already, though I haven't seen a 2port wraith gosu on an afreeca stream yet
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
But those teams had parent companies in financial trouble.
SKT should be the most stable team out of all of them. SK Telecom has and seems to continue to support the SC2 Proleague as a title sponsor. Heck, SK Telecom had supported Brood War out of its own pocket for its final year with the BW SK Planet Proleague Season 1. Out of all the teams, they should be the last ones to run into trouble considering how much the parent company has invested in Starcraft.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
But those teams had parent companies in financial trouble.
SKT should be the most stable team out of all of them. SK Telecom has and seems to continue to support the SC2 Proleague as a title sponsor. Heck, SK Telecom had supported Brood War out of its own pocket for its final year with the BW SK Planet Proleague Season 1. Out of all the teams, they should be the last ones to run into trouble considering how much the parent company has invested in Starcraft.
I beg to differ: Because they invested in so much, they have by far the highest incentives to get out of SC2, considering also that investing in SC2 doesn't give much compared to LoL. SC2 seems to be a moneysink: much less viewers than BW in its later years, but with the same investment. I think it shows right now that SK Telecom will withdraw, KT will follow as they don't have any rival anymore, then the others.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
Underestimating SKT imo. STX and Woongjin have been known to be having problems. Infact, go do a search on it on TL. There's been several threads about the possibility of either team disbanding even before they got to PL finals. At that point, it was too late for the teams anyways.
SKT is solid so far, same with KT. Samsung and CJ seems to be fine as well. From what I've read, PL attendance is up a bit etc... I doubt SK will quit anytime soon so I wouldn't hold out hope, same with Roro and sin though I have no clue about his performance. In short, SKT looks to be going the distance and seeing as Fantasy, Rain and Parting left, they likely have a lot more money available for future hirings etc...
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
Underestimating SKT imo. STX and Woongjin have been known to be having problems. Infact, go do a search on it on TL. There's been several threads about the possibility of either team disbanding even before they got to PL finals. At that point, it was too late for the teams anyways.
SKT is solid so far, same with KT. Samsung and CJ seems to be fine as well. From what I've read, PL attendance is up a bit etc... I doubt SK will quit anytime soon so I wouldn't hold out hope, same with Roro and sin though I have no clue about his performance. In short, SKT looks to be going the distance and seeing as Fantasy, Rain and Parting left, they likely have a lot more money available for future hirings etc...
SC 2 is going downhill. It is following the same path as BW. When you see Kespa open tourny to foreigner and the public you know something is wrong. Remember when programers were required to obtain a license?
Just cuz SKT is solid doesnt mean they wont leave the sc2 scene. Remember MBC? A large and popular korean industry decided to pull out of the gaming industry. I wouldn't be surprised SKT dropped sc2 and they decided to invest their money into a LOL league.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
Underestimating SKT imo. STX and Woongjin have been known to be having problems. Infact, go do a search on it on TL. There's been several threads about the possibility of either team disbanding even before they got to PL finals. At that point, it was too late for the teams anyways.
SKT is solid so far, same with KT. Samsung and CJ seems to be fine as well. From what I've read, PL attendance is up a bit etc... I doubt SK will quit anytime soon so I wouldn't hold out hope, same with Roro and sin though I have no clue about his performance. In short, SKT looks to be going the distance and seeing as Fantasy, Rain and Parting left, they likely have a lot more money available for future hirings etc...
SC 2 is going downhill. It is following the same path as BW. When you see Kespa open tourny to foreigner and the public you know something is wrong. Remember when programers were required to obtain a license?
Just cuz SKT is solid doesnt mean they wont leave the sc2 scene. Remember MBC? A large and popular korean industry decided to pull out of the gaming industry. I wouldn't be surprised SKT dropped sc2 and they decided to invest their money into a LOL league.
When the SC2 ship sinks, SKT will be the last one to pull out. They're the biggest sponsor with the biggest fanbase. They've always been the biggest. The other KeSPA teams will go before SKT goes, and the entire scene will basically need to be completely collapsed by then. Their sponsorship of Proleague since 2011 and future sponsorship of this upcoming season shows how committed they are to Starcraft outside of running a team for the time being.
So after two weeks of no news and some random guy spamming it's not happening, Love streamed some team play yesterday and there's no change to the announcements so I take it all is well and the lack of activity was probably just Chuseok.
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
Underestimating SKT imo. STX and Woongjin have been known to be having problems. Infact, go do a search on it on TL. There's been several threads about the possibility of either team disbanding even before they got to PL finals. At that point, it was too late for the teams anyways.
SKT is solid so far, same with KT. Samsung and CJ seems to be fine as well. From what I've read, PL attendance is up a bit etc... I doubt SK will quit anytime soon so I wouldn't hold out hope, same with Roro and sin though I have no clue about his performance. In short, SKT looks to be going the distance and seeing as Fantasy, Rain and Parting left, they likely have a lot more money available for future hirings etc...
SC 2 is going downhill. It is following the same path as BW. When you see Kespa open tourny to foreigner and the public you know something is wrong. Remember when programers were required to obtain a license?
Just cuz SKT is solid doesnt mean they wont leave the sc2 scene. Remember MBC? A large and popular korean industry decided to pull out of the gaming industry. I wouldn't be surprised SKT dropped sc2 and they decided to invest their money into a LOL league.
No, SCII is doing fine as is though obviously not to BW's level but the KR scene is said to have grown a bit. Kespa opening tourney to foreigners? What are you talking about? You mean PL? If that's the case, they are talking about WCS points and such. Besides, PL was always technically open to foreigners but how many would decide to take a trip to Korea to train and live in a team house? not many. That and many teams weren't as interested in a foreigner when their own B teamers have similar or better skills.
MBC's director or whoever he was, was a bigger fan of kpop so he closed MBCGame for that. BW was the only thing that was apparently making the channel money but there was much more to be made being a Kpop channel. The source for this was on TL in some thread but that's 'apparently' the reason they closed. Also, the switch liked prompted them as well seeing as they were bound to switch if Blizzard's demands in court were true. Either way, I think it's wrong to say that SKT will just leave PL altogether like the post above Stratos' states.
can anyone give an update on Fantasy status ? i got from the sc2 forum that apparently he is streaming sc2 after he left skt.. anyone know his afreeca.com or twitch profile?
On September 17 2014 06:19 broodwar2.0 wrote: can anyone give an update on Fantasy status ? i got from the sc2 forum that apparently he is streaming sc2 after he left skt.. anyone know his afreeca.com or twitch profile?
On August 29 2014 00:58 Xiphias wrote: This is fantastic news! Flash, time to come back!
not while he has an 80% winrate in SC2 over the last few months
Flash singlehandedly destroying sc2 so that they all other kespa players come back to bw as they cant win shit anymore.
That's actually a really good point considering that currently the competition is so stacked in Korea that more former successful BW players may be given another option, assuming Sonic and LoveTV can keep the momentum.
I am switching more to the feeling that blizzard should ruin sc2 more and more. I am hoping that protoss will continue winning with bullshit and that blizzard will majorly screw up Lotv with more bullshit units (they do not really have a good track record considering HOTS). Its complicated: I do not have much hope anymore for blizzard and on the other hand I am happy that they screw up.
On September 12 2014 19:04 duke91 wrote: What if... Kespa is going to full switch back to BW and the progamers recently becoming free agent wanted to stay in SC2 so that they are now looking for a foreign team?
On September 12 2014 19:04 duke91 wrote: What if... Kespa is going to full switch back to BW and the progamers recently becoming free agent wanted to stay in SC2 so that they are now looking for a foreign team?
Wishful thinking at it's finest.
If I told you the next LoveTV Starleague would have over a $86,000 prize pool a month ago, you would've said the same exact thing.
You cannot stop Brood War. You cannot stop the future.
On August 29 2014 00:58 Xiphias wrote: This is fantastic news! Flash, time to come back!
not while he has an 80% winrate in SC2 over the last few months
Flash singlehandedly destroying sc2 so that they all other kespa players come back to bw as they cant win shit anymore.
That's actually a really good point considering that currently the competition is so stacked in Korea that more former successful BW players may be given another option, assuming Sonic and LoveTV can keep the momentum.
I am switching more to the feeling that blizzard should ruin sc2 more and more. I am hoping that protoss will continue winning with bullshit and that blizzard will majorly screw up Lotv with more bullshit units (they do not really have a good track record considering HOTS). Its complicated: I do not have much hope anymore for blizzard and on the other hand I am happy that they screw up.
On September 12 2014 19:04 duke91 wrote: What if... Kespa is going to full switch back to BW and the progamers recently becoming free agent wanted to stay in SC2 so that they are now looking for a foreign team?
Wishful thinking at it's finest.
If I told you the next LoveTV Starleague would have over a $86,000 prize pool a month ago, you would've said the same exact thing.
No I wouldn't have. I don't really follow BW that much so I wouldn't be in a position to comment. I don't really know the state the BW scene is in so how would have I judged the comment if you told be LoveTV Starleague would have over a $86,000 prize pool.
What I do know is is that the idea that the reason that FanTaSy and PartinG left SKT1 is because they want to continue with SC2 before an impending KeSPA switch over to BW is totally fucking ridiculous. I know it, you know it and duke91 knows it. That's why it's wishful thinking in its finest.
The Korean SC2 is finally starting to see some long-awaited growth again and the last Proleague was the best it's been for a long time. Still not a scratch on the BW glory-days of StarCraft in its heyday but heading in the right direction.
On September 19 2014 12:42 HyralGambit wrote: [You cannot stop Brood War.
For anyone who wants the link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/467520-effort-retires#6 Effort! Effort! Quite likely a TBA imo. What's he got to lose anyways? He's retired from SCII so even if its the army, he'll likely take a short break and have fun. Streaming BW on afreeca = lots of balloons = lots of fun
edit: or maybe this instead, we'll see:
On September 22 2014 04:11 monk wrote: He wants to spend as much time as he can with his sick mother before he does military. -wax
On September 22 2014 04:06 Paljas wrote: effort no longer in sc2, one of the TBA?
Duuude, he's retiring from progaming altogether because his ma is ill...
True, which does make it much less likely he will play in LoveTV.
Doesn't mean he won't Afreeca stream though, as he obviously won't spend every waking moment with his mom, and if BW is something he enjoys I could seem him streaming on occassions.
On September 22 2014 04:06 Paljas wrote: effort no longer in sc2, one of the TBA?
Duuude, he's retiring from progaming altogether because his ma is ill...
True, which does make it much less likely he will play in LoveTV.
Doesn't mean he won't Afreeca stream though, as he obviously won't spend every waking moment with his mom, and if BW is something he enjoys I could seem him streaming on occassions.
Or, hopefully, his mom gets better What better way to make your mom proud by winning the biggest Brood War event in the post televised era of the game, right?
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Well considering that we have so few info on... pretty much everything right now, it's not a surprise. But if you want to gain more posts, get on reddit, twitter, facebook, etc. and spread the word
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Well considering that we have so few info on... pretty much everything right now, it's not a surprise. But if you want to gain more posts, get on reddit, twitter, facebook, etc. and spread the word
I'm sure it's already been spread lol. I'm sure we'll get more reads once we get more information on those TBAs so just gotta hold on for now
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Well considering that we have so few info on... pretty much everything right now, it's not a surprise. But if you want to gain more posts, get on reddit, twitter, facebook, etc. and spread the word
I'm sure it's already been spread lol. I'm sure we'll get more reads once we get more information on those TBAs so just gotta hold on for now
Yeah, let's spam more pure speculations post about absolutely nothing concrete based on no new information xD
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Well considering that we have so few info on... pretty much everything right now, it's not a surprise. But if you want to gain more posts, get on reddit, twitter, facebook, etc. and spread the word
unlike AoE, the pinnacle of scBW are still concentrated in Korea, so i would think this tourney has gathered plenty of hype in korea at least?
On September 12 2014 23:55 HyralGambit wrote: EffOrt, please... boster the SoSPA Zerg line-up plz
This would be beyond awesome.
Only thing more awesome would be Soulkey, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I believe there were rumours starting last week that Soulkey would be retiring and would start streaming on afreeca. Same with hOn_sin. Could be possible.
I really can't imagine that SKT, possibly the richest of the KeSPA teams, would let either of that happen. If those two leave in addition to the already confirmed leaving of Rain, Parting, and Fantasy, who does SKT really have left? Paralyze, soO, Classic, and a bunch of B-teamers/no-namers are what's left. Unless SKT is going for a bigger shakeup, I would think that they would fight hard to retain the players they have left.
But then again, remember when people thought STX and Woongjin were going to do fine? And now look at PianO, ZerO, Mini and Last.
Never underestimate how fragile the Korean SC2 scene actually is, I say.
Yes but the Korean SC2 scene is thankfully growing for the first time since like forever. It's small growth but at least it's in the right direction. There's actually more teams joining Proleague this year than quitting. StarTale and Prime have both secured a nice new sponsor.
SKT1 are totally fine. They are about to sign INnoVation, not exactly the signing you'd make if you're struggling financially.
There is even rumour of OSL returning which stem from the return of OGN's Star Hangshow.
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Actually, last I looked our thread has 254 posts and 24856 views while their thread has 178 posts and 11845 posts
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Actually, last I looked our thread has 254 posts and 24856 views while their thread has 178 posts and 11845 posts
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
ah wow, such a large prize pool for AOE T.T Maybe we need our own rich prince lol. thanks! + Show Spoiler +
Saddest part about this is that, that thread reached so many posts in a few days while this thread which has a humongous prize pool (even if smaller than the AOE one) had less posts in a longer duration. Of course, can't compare the two games or anything since I enjoyed both and I'm sure community size is much different (bigger there I think) but was hoping that we would've gotten a lot more posts in this thread seeing its content.
Actually, last I looked our thread has 254 posts and 24856 views while their thread has 178 posts and 11845 posts
would be really disappointing if the sponsor is just a rich person.. but from reading lovetv posts it doesnt seem like its just one rich person investing..
His identity is actually just a rumor, but the basic gist is that a sponsor who has been organizing many previous AoE2 tournaments has recently organized a $120,000 prize pool tournament. So basically anything can happen when a rich guy is generous enough.
On October 03 2014 07:07 Wombat_NI wrote: Is it beyond possibility that Bisu can't reverse his decision not to play in more tournaments for something as potentially huge as this?
It's already sick and I'm not going to complain, but he would add that little bit of extra sparkle.
as said before bisu is going to leave for army thats why he cant participate
On October 03 2014 07:07 Wombat_NI wrote: Is it beyond possibility that Bisu can't reverse his decision not to play in more tournaments for something as potentially huge as this?
It's already sick and I'm not going to complain, but he would add that little bit of extra sparkle.
Personally, I don't buy the army excuse lol. ya, he will go to the army eventually but I think it's two possible reasons, first which is plausible and second which isn't as plausible lol. First, he just doesn't want to prep for tournaments. I think he said something like that after SSL9. Even though he'll always be one of the best Protoss players in BW and he's no doubt top Protoss and top player atm, I doubt he'll want to lose a tournament at this time. We've seen Hiya, Killer, Sea, hero and so on beat him before. With so much on the line (money wise), I'm sure most will be fired up and practice hardcore. Though I don't doubt his abilities to get passed any of the current BW players, there is always a chance of him getting knocked out if he ends up in a difficult group (Killer, Hiya and hero for ex).
Second one, I think he just felt sorry for other Afreecan BJs lol. Anyone else remember Mind's drunken rant about how he doesn't get respect, only had like 100 viewers to Bisu's thousands and other stuff? As it stands, Bisu is likely raking in the cash from Afreeca and probably doesn't need/wants to give a chance to other players to earn something seeing as they stayed in the scene after PL moved over. Of course, this is pure speculation but it's also a possibility if Bisu heard about Mind's rant and such.
On October 03 2014 07:07 Wombat_NI wrote: Is it beyond possibility that Bisu can't reverse his decision not to play in more tournaments for something as potentially huge as this?
It's already sick and I'm not going to complain, but he would add that little bit of extra sparkle.
Personally, I don't buy the army excuse lol. ya, he will go to the army eventually but I think it's two possible reasons, first which is plausible and second which isn't as plausible lol. First, he just doesn't want to prep for tournaments. I think he said something like that after SSL9. Even though he'll always be one of the best Protoss players in BW and he's no doubt top Protoss and top player atm, I doubt he'll want to lose a tournament at this time. We've seen Hiya, Killer, Sea, hero and so on beat him before. With so much on the line (money wise), I'm sure most will be fired up and practice hardcore. Though I don't doubt his abilities to get passed any of the current BW players, there is always a chance of him getting knocked out if he ends up in a difficult group (Killer, Hiya and hero for ex).
Second one, I think he just felt sorry for other Afreecan BJs lol. Anyone else remember Mind's drunken rant about how he doesn't get respect, only had like 100 viewers to Bisu's thousands and other stuff? As it stands, Bisu is likely raking in the cash from Afreeca and probably doesn't need/wants to give a chance to other players to earn something seeing as they stayed in the scene after PL moved over. Of course, this is pure speculation but it's also a possibility if Bisu heard about Mind's rant and such.
if you read bisu's interview/stratos translation on TL you would know a few reasons why he doesnt compete in LSL3
he said his goal was ssl9 and to take time off and relax after that second he is going to army... by the end of this year (was translated on TL earlier) so you will see bisu only enjoying life for now (pretty obvious)
soo youre not ''buying the army excuse'' ? whats that suppose to mean he is dodging somehow for a tourney that has no date set at all? with his small time frame before the army 2 months its really illogical to sighnup and spend all youre time practicing prepping for a tourney that probably wont start before march next year (as lovetv said tratosj translations). when he will be in the army o.o ?
On October 03 2014 12:57 EarthwormJim wrote: When is this supposed to happen? How are we supposed to watch it? Thanks.
Some time after Asian Games and lol world cup are over. Dunno when that is. In any case when there's schedule, there's going to be a new thread, everything will be in the calendar and we should have HQ restreams as well, so just follow TL.
On October 03 2014 12:57 EarthwormJim wrote: When is this supposed to happen? How are we supposed to watch it? Thanks.
Some time after Asian Games and lol world cup are over. Dunno when that is. In any case when there's schedule, there's going to be a new thread, everything will be in the calendar and we should have HQ restreams as well, so just follow TL.
Yeah, make a new thread so it might be put under Community News to spread the word.
On September 13 2014 15:13 HyralGambit wrote: I was thinking that too... and hyvaa probably given all the other STX players that still bands together even now.
But even if that's the case, there's still 3 more mystery Zergs... hm...
When is JulyZerg done with military service? Another STX Zerg would rock my world.
On September 13 2014 15:13 HyralGambit wrote: I was thinking that too... and hyvaa probably given all the other STX players that still bands together even now.
But even if that's the case, there's still 3 more mystery Zergs... hm...
When is JulyZerg done with military service? Another STX Zerg would rock my world.
he went military on 30th march 2013. so add about 2 years to that
On October 03 2014 12:57 EarthwormJim wrote: When is this supposed to happen? How are we supposed to watch it? Thanks.
Some time after Asian Games and lol world cup are over. Dunno when that is. In any case when there's schedule, there's going to be a new thread, everything will be in the calendar and we should have HQ restreams as well, so just follow TL.
On September 13 2014 15:13 HyralGambit wrote: I was thinking that too... and hyvaa probably given all the other STX players that still bands together even now.
But even if that's the case, there's still 3 more mystery Zergs... hm...
When is JulyZerg done with military service? Another STX Zerg would rock my world.
he went military on 30th march 2013. so add about 2 years to that
On October 09 2014 09:45 Siz)Beggar wrote: i think we can safely say soulkey is one of the zergs possibly effort also
EffOrt's mother just died. I know LS3 is along way of and while I would absolutely love to see EffOrt play, his retirement was probably legitimately due to his mom. Dunno if he will go back to sc2 or not.
On October 09 2014 09:45 Siz)Beggar wrote: i think we can safely say soulkey is one of the zergs possibly effort also
EffOrt's mother just died. I know LS3 is along way of and while I would absolutely love to see EffOrt play, his retirement was probably legitimately due to his mom. Dunno if he will go back to sc2 or not.
On October 09 2014 09:45 Siz)Beggar wrote: i think we can safely say soulkey is one of the zergs possibly effort also
EffOrt's mother just died. I know LS3 is along way of and while I would absolutely love to see EffOrt play, his retirement was probably legitimately due to his mom. Dunno if he will go back to sc2 or not.
EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
On October 09 2014 18:43 broodwar2.0 wrote: ure forgetting that sc2 is really only populair with a bunch of teenage foreign kids like urself nobody in kr watches it
posts like this are the reason people refer to bw as elitist stuff. I really like BW, but some people who post in these forums, srsly... No wonder a lot of sc2 people who would maybe be interested in BW never give it a real shot when there is bs like that post representing the community (for example on reddit)
If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
and what broodwar2.0 says is true, In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
young people nowadays would play sc2 first and think its the greatest RTS ever despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
On October 09 2014 19:06 Probemicro wrote: If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
and what broodwar2.0 says is true, In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
young people nowadays would play sc2 first and think its the greatest RTS ever despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
If you are just starting to watch a game and wanna be part of a community and realize that this community "shits" on other games you like , it isn't really hard to understand why you won't be that enthusiastic in the first place
and what broodwar2.0 says is true
Yes i am sure it is true that only, i quote "a bunch of teenage foreign kids" watch sc2. Absolutely true, oh wait maybe not.
In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
Sure, BW might be more popular still, that is completely irrelevant to his comment though. He says "nobody watches sc2 in korea", that is just a retarded thing to say when numbers got better for the last proleague season and the gsl is more packed too. Nobody says the numbers are as great as the BW numbers were, but it is simply ignorant to say that sc2 has no viewers in korea when we can clearly see that this is not true.
despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
Yeah sure, the reality is a little bit different though. There is literally no thread about a sc2 player retiring where no "bw elitist" feels the need to post some passive aggressive stuff. You make it look like it is the other way around, but that couldn't be further from reality imo.
I just don't understand the need to shit on another community really, i mean i hope for BW to get big again too, that doesn't mean that i pray for sc2 to die though...
Duh you don't take it literally when he says "nobody watches sc2 in korea". Its just an exaggeration, but its really the undeniable reality that sc2 is at most just a very niche game in KR. walk into any PCbang you will hardly see anyone play sc2, its all LoL or some F2P/MMO stuff.
In its golden era BW was a much more popular game than SC2 can ever hope to be, BW does not just reach LoL levels of popularity but its also the game every gamer in korea plays and talks about, almost like a culture even.
nobody wants to shit on another community, but when you have an sc2 fan posting flame inciting comments with his own passive aggressive (:, someone is bound to say something.
I didn't see much of that, only passive-aggressive anti-SC2 posts.
Rather than complain 'oh they do it it to' take the high ground and stop posting crap where it's not warranted, it's pretty simple. Some people only know Soulkey through SC2, of course they're going to want him go stick around in their game.
On October 09 2014 20:03 Wombat_NI wrote: I didn't see much of that, only passive-aggressive anti-SC2 posts.
Rather than complain 'oh they do it it to' take the high ground and stop posting crap where it's not warranted, it's pretty simple. Some people only know Soulkey through SC2, of course they're going to want him go stick around in their game.
Yeah and because they only have experience with SC2 they also do not know that soulkey have spent substantial years in BW too and was essentially one of the A teamers for Woongjin and demonstrated potential to be one of the top Zergs in BW if not for the sc2 switch.
Thats why there are people clamoring for him to come back to BW, where his roots are.
On October 09 2014 19:06 Probemicro wrote: If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
and what broodwar2.0 says is true, In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
young people nowadays would play sc2 first and think its the greatest RTS ever despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
If you are just starting to watch a game and wanna be part of a community and realize that this community "shits" on other games you like , it isn't really hard to understand why you won't be that enthusiastic in the first place
In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
Sure, BW might be more popular still, that is completely irrelevant to his comment though. He says "nobody watches sc2 in korea", that is just a retarded thing to say when numbers got better for the last proleague season and the gsl is more packed too. Nobody says the numbers are as great as the BW numbers were, but it is simply ignorant to say that sc2 has no viewers in korea when we can clearly see that this is not true.
despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
Yeah sure, the reality is a little bit different though. There is literally no thread about a sc2 player retiring where no "bw elitist" feels the need to post some passive aggressive stuff. You make it look like it is the other way around, but that couldn't be further from reality imo.
I just don't understand the need to shit on another community really, i mean i hope for BW to get big again too, that doesn't mean that i pray for sc2 to die though...
gtfo and stop stirring up shit in BW threads artificially. It's annoying.
On October 09 2014 20:03 Wombat_NI wrote: I didn't see much of that, only passive-aggressive anti-SC2 posts.
Rather than complain 'oh they do it it to' take the high ground and stop posting crap where it's not warranted, it's pretty simple. Some people only know Soulkey through SC2, of course they're going to want him go stick around in their game.
Yeah and because they only have experience with SC2 they also do not know that soulkey have spent substantial years in BW too and was essentially one of the A teamers for Woongjin and demonstrated potential to be one of the top Zergs in BW if not for the sc2 switch.
Thats why there are people clamoring for him to come back to BW, where his roots are.
I would quite like to see him make the switch myself, just I don't see it as productive for fans of either game to be bashing the respective title is all.
On October 09 2014 19:06 Probemicro wrote: If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
and what broodwar2.0 says is true, In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
young people nowadays would play sc2 first and think its the greatest RTS ever despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
If you truly like a game you wouldn't give a damn about what others might think.
If you are just starting to watch a game and wanna be part of a community and realize that this community "shits" on other games you like , it isn't really hard to understand why you won't be that enthusiastic in the first place
and what broodwar2.0 says is true
Yes i am sure it is true that only, i quote "a bunch of teenage foreign kids" watch sc2. Absolutely true, oh wait maybe not.
In KR sc2 barely registers any blip in popularity when games like LoL, sudden attack and even BW constantly far exceeds sc2 in PCbang rankings. there are korean people who have lived through the golden era of BW willing to donate shitton of money to ex-pros to stream and showcase great games. I doubt you can say the same for sc2 15 years after its final expansion release.
Sure, BW might be more popular still, that is completely irrelevant to his comment though. He says "nobody watches sc2 in korea", that is just a retarded thing to say when numbers got better for the last proleague season and the gsl is more packed too. Nobody says the numbers are as great as the BW numbers were, but it is simply ignorant to say that sc2 has no viewers in korea when we can clearly see that this is not true.
despite never touching or playing brood war once with ignorant sentiments like "old ded game", "ugly graphics" etc. its only natural for BW fans would want to lambast ignorant kids like these, but almost all don't out of mature restraint.
Yeah sure, the reality is a little bit different though. There is literally no thread about a sc2 player retiring where no "bw elitist" feels the need to post some passive aggressive stuff. You make it look like it is the other way around, but that couldn't be further from reality imo.
I just don't understand the need to shit on another community really, i mean i hope for BW to get big again too, that doesn't mean that i pray for sc2 to die though...
gtfo and stop stirring up shit in BW threads artificially. It's annoying.
No cause i follow BW too. It is fucking annoying that there is that much elitism going on though, that's the reason i decided to make a comment.
yeah the initial post you replied too wasn't really fair. But put it into context pls:
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
basically this guy is saying: BW is over, deal with it. Honestly, those kinda comments make me mad too. And while it is exaggerated, it is true that the age demographic of sc2 is different from BW and that BW is more popular in Korea than Sc2. €: Elitism? if your only referring to demeaning remarks, i agree. But most users here simply like Sc1 over Sc2 for a couple of reasons, that is just how many of us feel about the game(s). And many do so with good reason, as they have played their fair share of both games, which you can't claim for the elitists on the other side of the table often enough in short i feel:Expressing that opionion in the BW subforum is a legit thing.
On October 09 2014 20:40 The_Red_Viper wrote: No cause i follow BW too. It is fucking annoying that there is that much elitism going on though, that's the reason i decided to make a comment.
"ure forgetting that sc2 is really only populair with a bunch of teenage foreign kids like urself nobody in kr watches it"
is elitism?
yes its hyperbole but its not a totally false statement either. ask any kid and most of them would favour sc2 more over BW due to sc2 being a more "modern" game and also inexperience with BW. And I don't feel elitist about that, only pity for these kids for not being able to appreciate BW.
and ignore pharophobia, hes obviously ignorant and loves to passive aggressive flame/insult others (look at his history)
On October 09 2014 21:13 Wombat_NI wrote: It is patently false, most of my friends who play are 22-26, many of whom missed the boat on competitive Brood War/were unaware of places like TL etc.
You said it was only popular with kids, which isn't borne out by my experience.
People still forget quite how difficult and time-intensive it is to be competent at SC2. Less so than Brood War but a lot harder and stressful than most other modern big titles.
There are teens who play it, obviously. I'd still say the majority of players who are very invested are older, people who grew up with BW, AoE, CnC and WC3 and still love to play RTS
On October 09 2014 21:21 Wombat_NI wrote: You said it was only popular with kids, which isn't borne out by my experience.
People still forget quite how difficult and time-intensive it is to be competent at SC2. Less so than Brood War but a lot harder and stressful than most other modern big titles.
There are teens who play it, obviously. I'd still say the majority of players who are very invested are older, people who grew up with BW, AoE, CnC and WC3 and still love to play RTS
i already said its a hyperbole, so its not "only". and that was not my statement.
anyway back on topic, any updates on lsl3? there has been a dearth of korean individual tourneys since BCTV ended
On October 09 2014 21:17 Zealously wrote: Please stop this stupid game vs. game discussion immediately before we have to start warning and banning people. Keep it civil.
...kay boss ^^
So... quick change in topic: Who is going to be announced, what do you guys think? i didnt read the whole thread and a lot of names might have been mentioned yet, but i'd say:
Bisu sSak Modesty beast ((soulkey)) Jangbi
could be reasonable guesses? i dunno whats up with jangbi though. Is he playing atm?
On October 09 2014 21:17 Zealously wrote: Please stop this stupid game vs. game discussion immediately before we have to start warning and banning people. Keep it civil.
...kay boss ^^
So... quick change in topic: Who is going to be announced, what do you guys think? i didnt read the whole thread and a lot of names might have been mentioned yet, but i'd say:
Bisu sSak Modesty beast ((soulkey)) Jangbi
could be reasonable guesses? i dunno whats up with jangbi though. Is he playing atm?
lovetv specifically mentioned the TBAs are people who have not streamed on afreeca yet. so its none of the above other than soulkey (the statement was made before soulkey pop up on guemchi stream)
On October 09 2014 21:17 Zealously wrote: Please stop this stupid game vs. game discussion immediately before we have to start warning and banning people. Keep it civil.
...kay boss ^^
So... quick change in topic: Who is going to be announced, what do you guys think? i didnt read the whole thread and a lot of names might have been mentioned yet, but i'd say:
Bisu sSak Modesty beast ((soulkey)) Jangbi
could be reasonable guesses? i dunno whats up with jangbi though. Is he playing atm?
lovetv specifically mentioned the TBAs are people who have not streamed on afreeca yet. so its none of the above other than soulkey (the statement was made before soulkey pop up on guemchi stream)
The only real issue with a BW Revival is there's no new blood because no one can compete with the ex-progamers. :\ That's really the main thing killing the scene, there doesn't seem to be anyway to break in because the level of mechanics is so crazy high.
I'm not sure this is the place to ask but I didn't see a thread on it. Are any VODs going to be put up for the LoveTV Bo5 between ZerO and HiyA? Are they just in the archive of a snipealot stream? (I would be happy with that if I can find it just like that, I just wasn't sure)
On October 15 2014 17:46 Antisocialmunky wrote: The only real issue with a BW Revival is there's no new blood because no one can compete with the ex-progamers. :\ That's really the main thing killing the scene, there doesn't seem to be anyway to break in because the level of mechanics is so crazy high.
the amateurs are not exposed to the prolonged Kespa regimented training the ex-pros used to have, so its obvious barely any of them can reach the same level of proficiency.
Still even the average Fish player is nothing to be scoffed at, they are good enough to hold their own and even take a few games off expros.
well there is a point to be made a few seasons ago we had alot of highly skilled amateurs climbing the top ladder (taking games from streamers) into top 30..
sad thing is these amateurs are being bullied/flamed by fans of streamers, claiming they streamhack maphack vs ex-pros' on many occasions
some highlyskileld amateurs just stopped playing after that
sonic promised 'courage 2.0'' but there is no sign of that happening soon so thats also not helping
im seeing way less amateurs in the top 50/100 fish ladder nowardays
On October 15 2014 18:18 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure this is the place to ask but I didn't see a thread on it. Are any VODs going to be put up for the LoveTV Bo5 between ZerO and HiyA? Are they just in the archive of a snipealot stream? (I would be happy with that if I can find it just like that, I just wasn't sure)
Take a look through the past one-two day's snipe archives (snipes1,2,3,4) and both players FPVODs should be there. I just took a quick glance and ZerO's FPV of first 2 games are here. Game 3/etc are in the next file after it:
Speaking of Bo5 showmatches, it looks like LoveTV just hosted another show match between Killer and Mind. I imagine our man vhvx777 will be posting it in Recommended snipealot games soon...
If that's any indication of maps for the Starleague:
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
On October 15 2014 18:18 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure this is the place to ask but I didn't see a thread on it. Are any VODs going to be put up for the LoveTV Bo5 between ZerO and HiyA? Are they just in the archive of a snipealot stream? (I would be happy with that if I can find it just like that, I just wasn't sure)
On October 16 2014 04:12 Masheyoon wrote: Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
Very interesting links. Well said, very much agree.
Beyond those Proleague anecdotes, it's worth noting the Afreeca viewership of BW exceeds every other game (from what I can tell), except LoL. Although LoL gets something like 2-10x the audience, BW is still a dominant force, far outpacing the likes of DotA and SC2.
Individually, looking at the highest echelon of streamers, the top 100 rankings, which is largely made up of eaters/singers/scantily-clad women, we have Bisu, Larva, and Pusan right there in the mix.
Then, following close behind, we have Shuttle, leto, Zeus, Sea, hero, Mong, PianO, ZerO, sAviOr, jat.tv, LoveTV, Movie, Sonic, and Killer -- all in the top 500. Cumulatively they attract a very sizable audience, so hopefully sponsors will recognize this as they strive to target that elusive young consumer demographic
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
I remember reading somewhere on teamliquid about that one of the higher ups had a personal vendetta with broodwar and closed it down on mbc game I think even thou it was still profitable
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
Excellent post. Perfect understanding of the situation.
A while ago I had the intention of making a post in this thread, containing the exact same main points - but it is good that I don't have to anymore.
Judging by the posts here and elsewhere, there are people who lack basic knowledge/understanding concerning BWs potential viability as an esport. That post should help them.
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
I think you're cherry picking data a little here. First of all you're picking only BW's premier events which happen but a few times a year. That's the time when everyone comes out including old fans. But what's important to sponsors is consistent viewership throughout the season, how many people are actually following the league? That's important because unless you're KT or SKT your players and your team aren't making it that far all that often. The teams we saw disbanding that really set off the gloom in the community were the less glamorous teams, naturally. Unlike other big sports where even crappy teams have the support of their home towns and manage to fill at least half a stadium every other week, normal proleague games were trying to fill a small room with maybe 40 people and if the teams weren't popular it wouldn't be full. Top onto that that it is in one place and the schedule for matches was incredibly frequent, and you might actually get a different perspective. Of course for foreigners who just watch for the top players, it seems insanely popular, but it was only those top players who could draw audiences.
Not to defend Pharaphobia. Just saying that while a BW proscene was probably still maintainable, I'm not so sure it was pulling the numbers year round and sponsors had a lot of reasons to duck out including the difficulties with negotiations between KeSPA and Blizzard, the match fixing scandal (I think actually kind of negligible, but it certainly wasn't good; just another motivator in the other direction). For those who didn't duck out, they probably didn't fight all that hard against Blizzard's esports plan, LoL and other big games, which it's hard to say didn't work. We can laugh all we want that SC2 is not adored by every Korean, but they still pull foreign $$$ which is just in general good for South Korea's economy. The Koreans are poor, that's why you don't even have to pay to see a finals Better to take money from people who have too much, like American teenagers and college students.
As for BW being on Korean TV regularly again (my arbitrary standard for what a revival would probably look like), I'm not holding my breath but I don't think it's totally impossible. More in the case of Sonic getting studio space, getting TV casters, and the like. It's really hard to look at that and say it has no potential. It's also kinda hard to look at all the names that are around right now and not think that there aren't a lot of new ones, and there are a whole lot that were the proscene still going on, probably would have vanished into the ether. Like what's the next generation of pro players actually supposed to be? All the names that seem unfamiliar are only unfamiliar because they were B teamers.
I wrote a lot of garbage here. In the end I think it's actually kinda hard to get a good synthesis of information. Sonic keeps investing more and more and you think he must have a reason, but being totally honest it looks kinda bad long term. These guys aren't gonna stream BW from their parents' houses forever lol. They're just spending time with their family before military, it seems in a lot of cases.
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
I think you're cherry picking data a little here. First of all you're picking only BW's premier events which happen but a few times a year. That's the time when everyone comes out including old fans. But what's important to sponsors is consistent viewership throughout the season, how many people are actually following the league? That's important because unless you're KT or SKT your players and your team aren't making it that far all that often. The teams we saw disbanding that really set off the gloom in the community were the less glamorous teams, naturally. Unlike other big sports where even crappy teams have the support of their home towns and manage to fill at least half a stadium every other week, normal proleague games were trying to fill a small room with maybe 40 people and if the teams weren't popular it wouldn't be full. Top onto that that it is in one place and the schedule for matches was incredibly frequent, and you might actually get a different perspective. Of course for foreigners who just watch for the top players, it seems insanely popular, but it was only those top players who could draw audiences.
Not to defend Pharaphobia. Just saying that while a BW proscene was probably still maintainable, I'm not so sure it was pulling the numbers year round and sponsors had a lot of reasons to duck out including the difficulties with negotiations between KeSPA and Blizzard, the match fixing scandal (I think actually kind of negligible, but it certainly wasn't good; just another motivator in the other direction). For those who didn't duck out, they probably didn't fight all that hard against Blizzard's esports plan, LoL and other big games, which it's hard to say didn't work. We can laugh all we want that SC2 is not adored by every Korean, but they still pull foreign $$$ which is just in general good for South Korea's economy. The Koreans are poor, that's why you don't even have to pay to see a finals Better to take money from people who have too much, like American teenagers and college students.
As for BW being on Korean TV regularly again (my arbitrary standard for what a revival would probably look like), I'm not holding my breath but I don't think it's totally impossible. More in the case of Sonic getting studio space, getting TV casters, and the like. It's really hard to look at that and say it has no potential. It's also kinda hard to look at all the names that are around right now and not think that there aren't a lot of new ones, and there are a whole lot that were the proscene still going on, probably would have vanished into the ether. Like what's the next generation of pro players actually supposed to be? All the names that seem unfamiliar are only unfamiliar because they were B teamers.
I wrote a lot of garbage here. In the end I think it's actually kinda hard to get a good synthesis of information. Sonic keeps investing more and more and you think he must have a reason, but being totally honest it looks kinda bad long term. These guys aren't gonna stream BW from their parents' houses forever lol. They're just spending time with their family before military, it seems in a lot of cases.
While it is true, that the post you are referring to had some cherrypicking in it, i think your playing down the importance of Blizzards agenda, to replace Starcraft with Starcraft2 in Korea. I think that, let's say if there hadn't been any trouble at all, Bw would have stayed commercially interesting in the eyes of potential sponsors and associations. Not only Kespa but perhaps also GomTV. Of course the scene would have shrunk with the release of Starcraft 2 and even more with the upcoming prominence of Lol and other games as it did, but as long as the market is still viable, i can't see why Kespa for instance wouldn't still run OSL's, given of a smaller scale.
I think that the recent developments, spearheaded by Sonic, but luckily branching out and getting bigger and more professional indicate, that a worthwile market was given up hasty and under external influence, to say the least. I can see Broodwar getting big and possibly even televised (to pick up your criterium) again, if the foundations will be made middle-term to sustained growth, meaning to incorporate new players, give them decent training facities and exposure. As you mentioned, some of these ex pros are not going to stream forver, but that's the nature of every gaming scene. With the current hype in Korea and the fan and playerbase it is not our of line to see growth on the horizon.
To sum it up, i think that the labeling of "BW 2.0" "3.0" is a bit over the top, but recent development's have shown, that there is potential to crawl back to a stable as somewhat of a niche "Esport"-title. What puzzles me more is, why the foreign scene is so lackluster to pick up any impulse that comes from korea. In the last year or so, the playerbase has been diminishing quite a bit i think. Now im aware of issues regarding accesibilty and attraction level of Broodwar, but it doesn't explain to me why the remaining scene has become rather passive as of late.
No reason for foreign scene to pick up BW again when big MOBAs like LoL Dota and casual friendly games like Hearthstone gather huge audiences making them much more appealing for sponsors/investors. Most of the people that follow BW in the past have moved on to those games or with their lives, barely any left to espouse the appeal of BW or help sponsor/hold tournaments to keep the scene going.
In Korea there's still a sizable audience that still follows BW thanks to its huge fanaticism and popularity in the past there, people like sonic are willing to sponsor tourneys due to their love of the game
On October 15 2014 18:18 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure this is the place to ask but I didn't see a thread on it. Are any VODs going to be put up for the LoveTV Bo5 between ZerO and HiyA? Are they just in the archive of a snipealot stream? (I would be happy with that if I can find it just like that, I just wasn't sure)
Take a look through the past one-two day's snipe archives (snipes1,2,3,4) and both players FPVODs should be there. I just took a quick glance and ZerO's FPV of first 2 games are here. Game 3/etc are in the next file after it:
Ahh, damn, I just realised why I didn't find anything recent when I checked - it defaults to Highlights and I didn't notice! It seems to be at 1 hour 32.
On October 15 2014 18:18 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure this is the place to ask but I didn't see a thread on it. Are any VODs going to be put up for the LoveTV Bo5 between ZerO and HiyA? Are they just in the archive of a snipealot stream? (I would be happy with that if I can find it just like that, I just wasn't sure)
Sense to place the 3 five-minute games?
Where's the sense (or decency) in unnecessarily spoiling that all games are short? (If you meant something else by your comment, I have no idea what)
i think your playing down the importance of Blizzards agenda, to replace Starcraft with Starcraft2 in Korea.
If I did, I didn't mean to, because I also think that was the primary factor. But I think far from antagonizing Blizzard, sponsors were interested in the global market Blizzard was trying to create for esports, and of course that market was not going to include Brood War. So it's like your options are fighting a company who basically holds all the cards and can just say 'you're not allowed to use our games anymore,' or you can cooperate and probably get a lot of money too and give at least some of your workers somewhere to go. It's pretty hard to stand by Brood War in that case And of course it doesn't feel fair to people who really liked Brood War, and it seems like the callous destruction of something that had true value, but to Blizzard it was a product and to everyone else it was just a video game.
As for why the foreign scene is not lively in light of Sonic's efforts... I dunno. I've gotta say the Brood War matches today feel like watching people play a game, and maybe it's hard to understand what I mean but that's not what watching an OSL or MSL match felt like. Among other factors like it being really annoying to set up Brood War, installing it on modern operating systems is not always easy, lots of monitors refuse to display at 4:3 resolution, iCCup has been stigmatized for really not that good reasons, Fish is not easy to get working, there's random sketchy launchers people keep pushing even tho the threads are full of complaints they don't always work, for some people Brood War will just crash every other game... Holy shit, the list of things that make BW a pain to play in 2014 are endless lol. Not to mention we all got older, got jobs, have things to actually do, and having not played much in years, feel really stiff trying to wield the magnificent beast that is BW When it's that much work to get into a scene you know isn't very lively, there's pretty much no motivation you know? The sensible people have all let go.
As for BW being on Korean TV regularly again (my arbitrary standard for what a revival would probably look like), I'm not holding my breath but I don't think it's totally impossible. More in the case of Sonic getting studio space, getting TV casters, and the like. It's really hard to look at that and say it has no potential. It's also kinda hard to look at all the names that are around right now and not think that there aren't a lot of new ones, and there are a whole lot that were the proscene still going on, probably would have vanished into the ether. Like what's the next generation of pro players actually supposed to be? All the names that seem unfamiliar are only unfamiliar because they were B teamers.
I wrote a lot of garbage here. In the end I think it's actually kinda hard to get a good synthesis of information. Sonic keeps investing more and more and you think he must have a reason, but being totally honest it looks kinda bad long term. These guys aren't gonna stream BW from their parents' houses forever lol. They're just spending time with their family before military, it seems in a lot of cases.
I don't think a dedicated BW television channel is a necessity in today's entertainment landscape. SC2 is surviving with big money despite only an occasional presence on SpoTV Games and none on OGN. I think the paradigm has really evolved over the years...
Lots of content generators on Youtube, whether gamers, make-up gurus, comedians, etc have succeeded in making millions from viewership and sponsorship deals. Then we have folks tuning to Netflix, Amazon, and other non-traditional media.
Korea is incredibly well-connected online, so if the sponsorship money is there, a new gaming network along the lines of Hungry App or Kongdoo, or a few Afreeca channels, can easily thrive. Or if BW just gets broadcasted on some of the existing online E-Sports network. The Korean market is just too small to support BW from direct viewership alone (Afreeca balloons, ad space, monetized rates based on # of views), so I imagine it's all about sponsors. If marketers are finding it difficult to reach their target demographics and see BW as an alternative, they can turn to sponsoring leagues like LoveTV and Sonic, then channels/networks and players directly, basically just like any other successful E-Sport.
I'm curious how Korean marketers gauge BW's value, as Afreeca viewership and offline league attendance numbers don't seem to suffice.
i think your playing down the importance of Blizzards agenda, to replace Starcraft with Starcraft2 in Korea.
If I did, I didn't mean to, because I also think that was the primary factor. But I think far from antagonizing Blizzard, sponsors were interested in the global market Blizzard was trying to create for esports, and of course that market was not going to include Brood War. So it's like your options are fighting a company who basically holds all the cards and can just say 'you're not allowed to use our games anymore,' or you can cooperate and probably get a lot of money too and give at least some of your workers somewhere to go. It's pretty hard to stand by Brood War in that case And of course it doesn't feel fair to people who really liked Brood War, and it seems like the callous destruction of something that had true value, but to Blizzard it was a product and to everyone else it was just a video game.
As for why the foreign scene is not lively in light of Sonic's efforts... I dunno. I've gotta say the Brood War matches today feel like watching people play a game, and maybe it's hard to understand what I mean but that's not what watching an OSL or MSL match felt like. Among other factors like it being really annoying to set up Brood War, installing it on modern operating systems is not always easy, lots of monitors refuse to display at 4:3 resolution, iCCup has been stigmatized for really not that good reasons, Fish is not easy to get working, there's random sketchy launchers people keep pushing even tho the threads are full of complaints they don't always work, for some people Brood War will just crash every other game... Holy shit, the list of things that make BW a pain to play in 2014 are endless lol. Not to mention we all got older, got jobs, have things to actually do, and having not played much in years, feel really stiff trying to wield the magnificent beast that is BW When it's that much work to get into a scene you know isn't very lively, there's pretty much no motivation you know? The sensible people have all let go.
I'm not doubting anyone, but I'm wondering if anyone has some hard proof how the savior etc incident actually affected sponsorship of Korean BW. To me, the large majority of BW's death was due to Blizzard pushing Sc2, and whether it was done for monetary reasons or simply Blizzard saying so, Kespa swapping over pretty much sealed the deal. While the betting scandal would not have helped the industry, especially with how scandalous such a thing would be in a place like SK, I think there was definitely enough money to be made from BW that the important sponsors would not have walked (and didn't until Kespa did). Then again I don't check Korean sites at all, so I may have missed some pretty obvious stuff.
On October 19 2014 22:59 shizzz wrote: I'm not doubting anyone, but I'm wondering if anyone has some hard proof how the savior etc incident actually affected sponsorship of Korean BW. To me, the large majority of BW's death was due to Blizzard pushing Sc2, and whether it was done for monetary reasons or simply Blizzard saying so, Kespa swapping over pretty much sealed the deal. While the betting scandal would not have helped the industry, especially with how scandalous such a thing would be in a place like SK, I think there was definitely enough money to be made from BW that the important sponsors would not have walked (and didn't until Kespa did). Then again I don't check Korean sites at all, so I may have missed some pretty obvious stuff.
I don't know why we keep having this conversation but what ever.
it simply doesn't matter if there is still money to be made. the important thing is the how people view the scene, so if there is a lot of talk about how many scandals there are in bw, it doesnt matter if your team is pure or not, it will be viewed as the same. so sponseres pulled out.
and then teams like stx and woojin pulling out because the main company is nearly bankrupt
On October 19 2014 22:59 shizzz wrote: I'm not doubting anyone, but I'm wondering if anyone has some hard proof how the savior etc incident actually affected sponsorship of Korean BW. To me, the large majority of BW's death was due to Blizzard pushing Sc2, and whether it was done for monetary reasons or simply Blizzard saying so, Kespa swapping over pretty much sealed the deal. While the betting scandal would not have helped the industry, especially with how scandalous such a thing would be in a place like SK, I think there was definitely enough money to be made from BW that the important sponsors would not have walked (and didn't until Kespa did). Then again I don't check Korean sites at all, so I may have missed some pretty obvious stuff.
I don't know why we keep having this conversation but what ever.
it simply doesn't matter if there is still money to be made. the important thing is the how people view the scene, so if there is a lot of talk about how many scandals there are in bw, it doesnt matter if your team is pure or not, it will be viewed as the same. so sponseres pulled out.
and then teams like stx and woojin pulling out because the main company is nearly bankrupt
See, why do these sponsors then invest into the lol scene? Cause lol =/= bw? I don't really buy that.
On October 19 2014 22:59 shizzz wrote: I'm not doubting anyone, but I'm wondering if anyone has some hard proof how the savior etc incident actually affected sponsorship of Korean BW.
On October 09 2014 16:42 Pharaphobia wrote: EffOrt retired because he want to spend as much time with his mother before military, unfortunately that bad thing happen (rest in piece) and I think i can safely say that the LAST thing in his mind atm is StarCraft.
Rumors, about SoulKey are gone as he said himself many times in stream he likes to play SC2.
I love the idea of LoveTV with big prizemoney and there should be cups like that for more oldschool games (original quake 3,WarCraft 3, DotA 1 or CS1.6), but it's nothing else than few shots and I can safely say that no revival will happen. All of the guys are playing it because of nostalgy,memories and fact that they can meet with some of the retired players (TT1,HayprO etc...)
It is not a hate,regardless Im already pissed of those guys who are going around koreans SC2 streams and constantly spamming come back to BW!... BW era is done its more like good old game to play (:...
Just accept the fact even if smthing like that happen u never get a constant profitable models to attract sponsors in EU and NA
Well, I'm going to chime in with my opinion (as I've done since the BW pro scene sank): I can safely say that it's currently not possible to tell whether or not a full revival will happen (in South Korea). Pro BW did not die because of a lack of general interest and/or declining viewership.
(EDIT: Stupid firefox flags those links as "badware" when they are harmless.)
Pro BW died for two reasons: 1) the match-fixing scandal had sponsors worried about associating themselves with a tainted product, and 2) SC2's release along with Blizzard doing their best to kill BW. Sponsors ignored the fact that people were as interested as ever in watching professional BW, but left the BW scene anyway in favor of a new, shiny product simply because they thought it would be a safer investment.
With all of that said, what makes these things happen is money. The sponsors bring in money for the product and people bring in money for the sponsors. Without people, sponsors would have nothing to gain, and people have shown that they are still interested in watching BW. The crowd turnout for the previous SSL was great, ex BW pros are making a good enough living by simply streaming BW, and this prize pool is enormous especially for a "dead game". That's enough to get a lot of people's hopes up. If sponsors would only wise up, they would see that there is still money to be made.
I think you're cherry picking data a little here. First of all you're picking only BW's premier events which happen but a few times a year. That's the time when everyone comes out including old fans. But what's important to sponsors is consistent viewership throughout the season, how many people are actually following the league? That's important because unless you're KT or SKT your players and your team aren't making it that far all that often. The teams we saw disbanding that really set off the gloom in the community were the less glamorous teams, naturally. Unlike other big sports where even crappy teams have the support of their home towns and manage to fill at least half a stadium every other week, normal proleague games were trying to fill a small room with maybe 40 people and if the teams weren't popular it wouldn't be full. Top onto that that it is in one place and the schedule for matches was incredibly frequent, and you might actually get a different perspective. Of course for foreigners who just watch for the top players, it seems insanely popular, but it was only those top players who could draw audiences.
Not to defend Pharaphobia. Just saying that while a BW proscene was probably still maintainable, I'm not so sure it was pulling the numbers year round and sponsors had a lot of reasons to duck out including the difficulties with negotiations between KeSPA and Blizzard, the match fixing scandal (I think actually kind of negligible, but it certainly wasn't good; just another motivator in the other direction). For those who didn't duck out, they probably didn't fight all that hard against Blizzard's esports plan, LoL and other big games, which it's hard to say didn't work. We can laugh all we want that SC2 is not adored by every Korean, but they still pull foreign $$$ which is just in general good for South Korea's economy. The Koreans are poor, that's why you don't even have to pay to see a finals Better to take money from people who have too much, like American teenagers and college students.
As for BW being on Korean TV regularly again (my arbitrary standard for what a revival would probably look like), I'm not holding my breath but I don't think it's totally impossible. More in the case of Sonic getting studio space, getting TV casters, and the like. It's really hard to look at that and say it has no potential. It's also kinda hard to look at all the names that are around right now and not think that there aren't a lot of new ones, and there are a whole lot that were the proscene still going on, probably would have vanished into the ether. Like what's the next generation of pro players actually supposed to be? All the names that seem unfamiliar are only unfamiliar because they were B teamers.
I wrote a lot of garbage here. In the end I think it's actually kinda hard to get a good synthesis of information. Sonic keeps investing more and more and you think he must have a reason, but being totally honest it looks kinda bad long term. These guys aren't gonna stream BW from their parents' houses forever lol. They're just spending time with their family before military, it seems in a lot of cases.
I honestly didn't intend to cherry pick. Two of the three examples I provided were of either opening or closing premier events, true, but the Yongsan Stadium at Full Capacity article states "SK Planet StarCraft Proleague Season 1 continues to fill up the Yongsan Stadium, from the opening match to the present" and "Yongsan eSports Stadium was packed with enthusiastic eSports fans who came out to watch Ace versus STX". And even for a premiere event, ranking 1st in viewership is a pretty big deal.
I'm going to try to dig up old articles, but even in BW's final year, viewership remained consistent throughout the proleague and OSL (I know this because I've paid close attention to the pro scene since I can remember, and my attention was especially fixed throughout BW's final year). Of course viewership and crowd turnouts weren't as great as premiere events, but that's to be expected. I even remember comparing a typical BW event stream to that of several SC2 events (both premiere and regular matches), and not only were BW crowd turnouts bigger, but it always had at least twice as many stream viewers. That's saying something considering how new SC2 was at the time and the fact that those numbers have only dwindled for SC2 since then (in Korea, of course).
Now, the teams that disbanded weren't necessarily all that less glamorous. Oz was very popular thanks to the golden boy that was Jaedong in his prime, yet that didn't mean anything. We might just have to agree to disagree, but what set off the "doom and gloom" atmosphere was the fact that sponsors were ditching BW, and as such, forcing teams to disband. I'm confident that, based on the numbers and evidence I've gathered, sponsors left BW for the two reasons I mentioned in my previous post.
From a business point of view, they actually made the correct decision. Sponsors take risks all the time, so they have to be sure that they're making the safest possible investment. They had no way of knowing whether or not SC2 was going to be a hit, but considering it was BW's successor being developed by the very company that made and was pushing for BW to be axed, it was the more logical thing to do. The match-fixing scandal in my opinion was a really big deal. It caused the talismanic CJ couch to retire and according to a liquipedia article, crippled Hite Sparkyz.
tl;dr- -----MBC closing is heavily rumoured with match fixing scandal/higher ups calling shots to change image -----OGN has frequently talked about it, but again, not hard evidence -----post-shinhan proleague BW era has had tons of rumour mills (there are always rumors, but the shinhan contract was a concrete one) -----personal opinion: OGN tried to "go big or go home" and ended up just having to go home
There's not really any hard proof because all we have is just discussions, and even those are very brief generally. And the realist/pessimist can always look at when OGN says "oh the match fixing scandal is hurting us getting sponsors" or "hurt the image of starcraft so badly" and simply say OGN could have been having more difficulty and just using the matchfixing as an easy out. Since it really is just the word of the organizers (eg OGN), you don't have "hard" facts--this is present all across all esports industries, people have their word vs my word and people don't follow up on contracts, just korea got real large companies involved. But it's hard to pinpoint if any potential sponsors shyed away.
One note is that some of the sponsors (eg STX, Air Force Ace) really would have been 100% more of an image thing than return on investment, and those that can get return on investment didn't focus on that. Most esports teams (probably all) definitely lost money. KT, SKT, CJ, Samsung, they were willing to pay $100,000 USD salaries to top players without even worrying if they got that money back (e.g. is paying Bisu that much really selling more SKT mobile apps or whatever? Is CJ sponsorship really causing more consumers of CJ media? Did Hite Entus really sell more Hite?). But that doesn't matter, it's essentially just part of the advertising budget.
Esports is not a financial gainer for the sponsors.
OGN What are the most accessible forms would be things from OGN discussing sponsorship, perhaps most notably this: OGN after talk on match fixing [edit: timestamp should be 13m 25 s]
specifically linked to a segment where discussion of "Honor" company mentality
still, that was RIGHT after the match fixing scandal, and heresay; the timestamp linked talked as if the sponsors were a little more hesitant than usual, but that doesn't really indicate anything real of "they specifically did not sponsor because of match fixing"
I don't think there is anything too "hard" facts around the MBC closing, but some of the MBC employees were quite outspoken at being mad how the game channel was dropped without real hesitation. This thread is the farewell MBC thread and has link to the caster kim min chul angry interview
So MBC closing, from the words of semi-angry ex-MBC employees losing their job, was based on a higher up's decision and image thing rather than financial. Of course, afaik the MBC kpop channel is doing fine so financially the company may have made the "right" decision anyways, but the thing is that it is really an "image" idea rather than money making.
Shinhan Proleague The end of bw (post-shinhan bank) /current bw is full of floating details; it's not as simple as just "Shinhan bank going for 3 year contract" that happened back in 2007 (an old post of mine just has text that at that time, the kespa english site said it was a 5 billion won contract w/ shinhan and that includes doing the special forces proleague, etc). You have very rumour situations with "is a sponsor coming?", "is MBC going to stay open?" [started a new MSL after ABC mart--MBC employees said it was "promised" to finish, didn't get sponsor, channel shut down], "a sponsor backed away because of sc2??" [this never confirmed and IMO unlikely], persisting all the way until now (LoveTV Starleague S3 announced a while ago but no details to come forward....)
Go big or go home
My personal opinion is that OGN never wanted to "scale back" on BW. Many of the major sponsors of BW (skt, kt, mbc, stx [I think], cj) had special forces teams, samsung and wemade had WC3 players with high salaries (uh wemade's closing is a bit odd, they were a game company and pulled out because I think they only wanted to promote their own games, though I don't know how the company ended up). The sponsors supported other esports to smaller scales, but BW was the "big name" and the highest paying.
There was a big hubbub about how team 8 was maintaining salaries of the players picked up by kespa, etc etc. I don't know how much was true, but I never really got the impression that BW ever wanted to "Scale back" or, perhaps equally important, to change it's model. It was always "big sponsors, big chaebols, they make the contracts, that's what we need". Edit- is it ever confirmed that match fixing made big sponsors more weary? Not exactly. It makes sense. But since BW relied only on that model, any minor reductions definitely hurt the scene more than perhaps if BW was just more flexible
For LoL, that is actually still working fantastic with korean scene. The big companies pour the money in, and there is a huge success. But as we see with afreeca (balloon donations), and outside korea with dota 2/twitch/etc, many small contributions from crowd funding are--although highly unstable comapred to having a committed parent company--remarkedly successful (referring to The International prize pool w/ dota 2)
GSL survived starcraft 2 because you had foreigners buy like 15$ tickets to watch + blizzard; the korean viewership of GSL is much smaller. For BW, getting 300,000 koreans watching on TV and sell that to a major sponsor (e.g. Korean Air) may be worth a significant portion less that having 50,000 viewers all willing to pay 5$ for content.
All OSLs continued with ~100,000,000 - 108,000,000 KRW price pool in total after batoo (I think). BW never scaled back. Then, blizzard came along to support proleague for sc2, but when that didn't work out for OGN, they switched over to full commitment to LoL (and, are having massive success). OGN tried to attract China w/ OSL and w/ proleague grand finals [even if rained out], they tried to reach their net out further in the "attract big sponsors" mentality, but they never either asked less of the sponsors or turned to the community at large.
OGN kind of talks about how they turned LoL into the successor to BW at the very start of LoL in korea. They planned to. I am a fan of OGN, and don't blame them (and the individuals involved still support BW, casting at sonic, etc etc), but if we could rewind time, I think BW definitely had many years left.
On July 05 2013 01:19 N.geNuity wrote: its actually very easy to know how LoL got big in korea: n00bs said chaos (korean dota) was too hard and bw was too hard so they went to LoL (turn on eng subs, video timestamped): + Show Spoiler +
which this short little series (3 episodes + first finals) also explains how LoL was totally a conspiracy by OGN in korea
^^ part of hite's crippling is just that a lot of their players were involved, and they weren't a team with a ton of depth in terms of b-team practice partners iirc
plus I don't think the um dream league was around when hite sparkyz was around, they really only had an A teamer squad afaik
OGN trying to go big w/ blizzards support on sc2 makes sense a bit; it's very disappointing to me personally and all bw fans, but remember, just a "little" while ago there was once proleague, OSL, MSL, and gomtv all happening.
Gomtv left, partly due to kespa junk (some teams boycotted last season of gomtv), and MBC getting closed down (potentially directly due to match fixing scandal) meant OGN was left as the only provider for proleague and an individual league. Their staff obviously wanted something to go big on, and seeing the potential for global growth in sc2 and direct support from blizzard is very appealing, rather than doing any scaling back. If they only maintained the status quo, even though the status quo was very large, they could fear for a similar fate for MBC--they wanted to carve out an ever larger presence.
What won out easily, of course, was LoL. In that sense OGN massively won. They wanted to grow into a global leader, and that wouldn't happen with BW. BW was, and still is, a korean product, if you want to get out of very niche audiences.
Bump for those who might not have noticed Stratos and Hyralgambit's calendar/tournament threads for several Bo5 match-ups taking place or recently completed
Really exciting to see all these map-test/show matches on LoveTV, really whets the appetite to what will surely be a wonderful Starleague
Today's update: They're finalizing the schedule with anon players and the offline location was narrowed down to two places - Gangnam stadium and east Sangam stadium. It should take in around 400 ppl.
In the meantime, as you have sure noticed, there are the ongoing "sponleague" matches on weekdays 9PM KST. This will give the players time to practice the maps and viewers to get used to them and everyone to give feedback.
They did expect to progress more quickly but since it's not just their project, they need to have a lot of meetings with the sponsoring company over all the details, including things like the finals.
On October 23 2014 22:59 Stratos wrote: Today's update: They're finalizing the schedule with anon players and the offline location was narrowed down to two places - Gangnam stadium and east Sangam stadium. It should take in around 400 ppl.
In the meantime, as you have sure noticed, there are the ongoing "sponleague" matches on weekdays 9PM KST. This will give the players time to practice the maps and viewers to get used to them and everyone to give feedback.
They did expect to progress more quickly but since it's not just their project, they need to have a lot of meetings with the sponsoring company over all the details, including things like the finals.
Wtf should I call these "sponleague" s on Liquipedia? :p
In less than an hour, there's another match, Guemchi vs Sharp. Kinda unexpected since she said they'd be on weekdays only, but clearly there's demand and various sponsors interested so yay! http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2014/10/#event_24266
On October 25 2014 20:05 Stratos wrote: Call them whatever ^^
In less than an hour, there's another match, Guemchi vs Sharp. Kinda unexpected since she said they'd be on weekdays only, but clearly there's demand and various sponsors interested so yay! http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2014/10/#event_24266
Yeah, too bad I missed it (was it posted on LoveTV's Notice Board on AfreecaTV before it went live?)
On October 23 2014 22:59 Stratos wrote: Today's update: They're finalizing the schedule with anon players and the offline location was narrowed down to two places - Gangnam stadium and east Sangam stadium. It should take in around 400 ppl.
In the meantime, as you have sure noticed, there are the ongoing "sponleague" matches on weekdays 9PM KST. This will give the players time to practice the maps and viewers to get used to them and everyone to give feedback.
They did expect to progress more quickly but since it's not just their project, they need to have a lot of meetings with the sponsoring company over all the details, including things like the finals.
On November 08 2014 07:15 Regis wrote: is this just me who think this tour will never start? Like birdie server or eywa tour
I'm very pessimistic, but it won't reach a level of never starting
I just expect that whatever the hell they're doing with the TBA's they'll throw up some more invites and backtrack on prize pool
because if there were like 12 former pros who thought they had a shot to do anything they would have been around on the fish ladder by now. I'm not following it, but I don't think there has been very much buzz.
sure, maybe leta is practicing with his old teammates or something and not a ton on ladder but I bet sool was trying to get some older school pros, but they'll all suck and lose first round
On November 08 2014 07:15 Regis wrote: is this just me who think this tour will never start? Like birdie server or eywa tour
I'm very pessimistic, but it won't reach a level of never starting
I just expect that whatever the hell they're doing with the TBA's they'll throw up some more invites and backtrack on prize pool
because if there were like 12 former pros who thought they had a shot to do anything they would have been around on the fish ladder by now. I'm not following it, but I don't think there has been very much buzz.
sure, maybe leta is practicing with his old teammates or something and not a ton on ladder but I bet sool was trying to get some older school pros, but they'll all suck and lose first round
Or just maybe Koreans are learning how to keep a secret haha
On November 08 2014 07:15 Regis wrote: is this just me who think this tour will never start? Like birdie server or eywa tour
I'm very pessimistic, but it won't reach a level of never starting
I just expect that whatever the hell they're doing with the TBA's they'll throw up some more invites and backtrack on prize pool
because if there were like 12 former pros who thought they had a shot to do anything they would have been around on the fish ladder by now. I'm not following it, but I don't think there has been very much buzz.
sure, maybe leta is practicing with his old teammates or something and not a ton on ladder but I bet sool was trying to get some older school pros, but they'll all suck and lose first round
Honestly there are a huge number of super strong players on Fish ladder that've been unidentified. I see the likes of Bisu and Killer been beaten badly almost every time they stream, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the "TBAs" are actively practicing.
Like I'll see a strong Zerg player just about every day, beating top guys like PianO or sSak 2-3 games in a row. Then when I /finger their usernames, they're IP addresses don't match up with any of the top active Zergs. It's scary how good random Fish players are.
On November 08 2014 07:15 Regis wrote: is this just me who think this tour will never start? Like birdie server or eywa tour
I'm very pessimistic, but it won't reach a level of never starting
I just expect that whatever the hell they're doing with the TBA's they'll throw up some more invites and backtrack on prize pool
because if there were like 12 former pros who thought they had a shot to do anything they would have been around on the fish ladder by now. I'm not following it, but I don't think there has been very much buzz.
sure, maybe leta is practicing with his old teammates or something and not a ton on ladder but I bet sool was trying to get some older school pros, but they'll all suck and lose first round
Honestly there are a huge number of super strong players on Fish ladder that've been unidentified. I see the likes of Bisu and Killer been beaten badly almost every time they stream, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the "TBAs" are actively practicing.
Like I'll see a strong Zerg player just about every day, beating top guys like PianO or sSak 2-3 games in a row. Then when I /finger their usernames, they're IP addresses don't match up with any of the top active Zergs. It's scary how good random Fish players are.
is that zt123? he usually goes for early aggressive builds, though strong that.
and damn bisu keeps playing that casul smartphone game or something onstream ;;. no wonder his skill kinda drop off a bit. his viewers probably don't like it too, seeing how his viewership drops dramatically everytime he does that.
On November 08 2014 07:15 Regis wrote: is this just me who think this tour will never start? Like birdie server or eywa tour
Just you. This is quite a bit different from both of those other things.
for me is the same - big news and nothing happens later. How much time passed? Two months? Is enough time for organize all.
Then you don't understand the differences. Bird server and Eywa tour were both big promises organized by one person. LoveTV, thought one person, has actual sponshorship. That alone is pretty significant, as she isn't trying to sell hockey cards to get money. There is already money secured. Nor is it like Bird server, with one person attempting a massive task. LoveTV has successfully organized star-leagues before, and thus has a proven pedigree.
Moreover, the wait time is intentional, to avoid conflicting with other major tours. If you're a sponsor investing significant change in a tour, you don't want it at the same time as another major "esports" event. let alone alongside another BW event such as SSL.
Both Eywa tour and Bird server are things nobody really expected to get happen, and neither had any sort of proven track record. On the other hand LoveTV has a successful history with organizing tours, and corporate backing as well. That's a pretty solid combination for success.
well samsung's contracts i guess were set up differently than all the other teams I guess (maybe just did annual rather than to end of proleague, and for whatever reason was now)**
so now all the teams have their post pl shuffles
I'll always be happy to eat my words, we'll see who comes along
**edit-- actually see a thread with some kespa regulations on contract things for sc2 players (parting not fulfilling some 5 year contract or whatever)
wouldn't be the off season without mystical kespa regulations on player tranfers and bidding and renegotiating contracts and whatnot
so i guess other teams were not just "set up contract to end of pl season" but have junk like letting players leave early, etc
Since on of the statements says they're having anon players so that even the older fans can enjoy the league like in the old times, I'm still convinced that they'll be oldschoolers. If they practice it would make sense, too. Do you want to see Hiya crush Starcue or Yellow in the ro32?
im guessing they holding on the launch to accomodate TV channels because I'd be surprise that with the level of exposure they proved they can reach and the ability these individuals displayed at securing fundings for their operations, TV stations would not try and work out something to broadcast it on cable channels
not to even mention half of the people involved in both leagues use / still work at TV
also koreans usually hold on stuff for ages when the stuff is promised to be big
On November 13 2014 16:17 N.geNuity wrote: well samsung's contracts i guess were set up differently than all the other teams I guess (maybe just did annual rather than to end of proleague, and for whatever reason was now)**
so now all the teams have their post pl shuffles
I'll always be happy to eat my words, we'll see who comes along
**edit-- actually see a thread with some kespa regulations on contract things for sc2 players (parting not fulfilling some 5 year contract or whatever)
wouldn't be the off season without mystical kespa regulations on player tranfers and bidding and renegotiating contracts and whatnot
so i guess other teams were not just "set up contract to end of pl season" but have junk like letting players leave early, etc
Fantasy and Rain are also still under that same 5 year thing with SKT so they can't play in PL lol. Doubt we'll see either one in LoveTV but thought it's interesting nonetheless.
Sry for the bump, but are there any news about this? I get that there are 2 other offline leagues going on atm but still... Maybe this will be on OGN too and this causes the delay?
LoveTV still has the original announcements posted on her Afreeca forum, so hopefully nothing having been retracted is a good sign. She's still occasionally streaming and posting about streaming activities, too, so LoveTV is still active.
It doesn't, however, look like there are any recent updates regarding the Starleague itself. A few fans have posted on Afreeca inquiring, as well, but no responses yet...
I guess sOol would be the fellow to talk to. I find it hard to imagine a big tourney like this just disappearing, but like everyone else would love to know it's still happening..
On August 28 2014 22:24 Stratos wrote: This means the organizers will require a Blizzard license to stream the event; sOoL is aware of this and is taking the necessary steps.
On August 28 2014 22:24 Stratos wrote: This means the organizers will require a Blizzard license to stream the event; sOoL is aware of this and is taking the necessary steps.
Soon™
Sonic got the licence within a month orso for ssl8/9?
I get that they probably don't wanna hold the tournament at the same time as ssl and ksl, but no news at all is pretty disappointing :/ I am still optimistic that in the end it will happen (i hope for effort to participate as well now), but the hype is pretty much gone at this point...^^
I don't want to be pessimistic but it doesn't look like anything is happening. I'm sure we would have heard something by now if this was still going to happen. Please come and do anouther season LovETV. Even if it's only anouther online tournment with a small prize pool. I just want to see more games and competitions.
They may be waiting for all the hype of the KSL and SSL to die down after they both finish (just one to go on March 1). Currently, my bet is on it still coming in some form. If we haven't heard anything by the end of March, it might be time to panic.
Do we have any korean speakers here who have actually watched the lovetv afreeca stream recently (I'm assuming it has been on from time to time with something) or have read her twitter/other with any information on it? lemmata? JohnChoi?
On January 20 2015 17:37 prech wrote: LoveTV still has the original announcements posted on her Afreeca forum, so hopefully nothing having been retracted is a good sign. She's still occasionally streaming and posting about streaming activities, too, so LoveTV is still active.
It doesn't, however, look like there are any recent updates regarding the Starleague itself. A few fans have posted on Afreeca inquiring, as well, but no responses yet...
All the original announcements are still posted and stickied to the top of LoveTV's forum
Also, after taking a few weeks off from streaming and/or casting, LoveTV posted a brief notice today, Feb24, that she's resuming her activities. Looks like she just posted a ~2 hour long gaming session. I have no idea if there was any talk about the league
Probably just announced when there was like 5% agreed upon and it died
It would be silly to announce literally for nothing (and not particularly go ahead and all-in on the scam like asking for further balloon donations to increase prize pool or something) but humans have done stupider
On June 04 2015 22:41 Probemicro wrote: no league but lovetv sponmatches are back, piano vs effort tonight
Oh awesome! Would you mind making some kind of combined LR thread for it so there's some place to keep track of the upcoming matches and hopefully we can get them on the calendar as well.
LoveTV's announcement effectively cancelled Season 3 as we know it. She apologized, says she's sorry for the absence, and that she's been busy. In Dec 2014, the sponsor already said they would not sponsor the Starleague, so they were looking for a different sponsor all this time, but were unable to find one.
Can't reveal sponsor name due to the contract. Wants to post contract details for all to see as evidence, but worried about legal ramifications and damage to the sponsor's reputation if more information is revealed.
So all the Season 3 announcements have been wipe from her board
안녕하세요 BJ사랑e입니다. 한동안 이래저래 좀 힘든 시간이 되어 한동안 방송으로 찾아뵙지 못했는대요. 우선 죄송하다는 말씀을 먼저 드리고 싶습니다. 많은 분들이 제 방송국에서 준비되고 있는 리그에 대해 우려반 응원반의 시선을 보내주셨었는대요. 우선 결론부터 말씀드리자면 작년 12월 기업측으로부터 최종적으로 리그 진행을 할 수 없다는 최종통보를 받았습니다. 그후로 다른 기업 한두곳 정도와 접촉을 해보았으나 그 또한 여의치 않게 되어 리그가 무산되었습니다. 이 글을 보시면서 또 사기꾼이라고 욕을 하실 분들이 훨씬 많겠다는 생각이 들지 않는건 아니지만 솔직하게 상황을 말씀드리고 뭐 욕을 하시면 달게 받고 이 또한 제가 겪어야 할 일인 것 같아 글을 올립니다. 그동안 리그를 준비하면서 제 그릇에 넘치는 큰 규모 때문에 제 자신도 너무 힘들었던 것도 사실이고 특히나 제 주장은 거의없이 기업측에서 시키는대로 모두 따를 수 밖에 없었던 것이 화근이 된 것 같습니다. 일정이 온전히 나올때까지 기업 이름을 공개하지 못하게 했던 것이 어쩌면 기업에서는 어느 정도 리그를 하지 않을 상황을 대비한게 아니었나 하는 생각이 뒤늦게 들었습니다. 사실 저에게는 계약내용등이 적혀 있는 가계약서가 있습니다. 리그가 무산되고 난 뒤에 가계약서 공개를 해서라도 거짓이라고 하시는 분들께 이런 일이 진행되고 있었다는 사실을 증명하고 싶었습니다. 하지만 그 쪽 기업측에서 가계약서를 공개할 시 기업측에서 받을 이미지 타격을 운운하며 저에게 책임을 질 수 있느냐고 되물었습니다. 저라는 한 개인이 기업을 상대로.. 할 수 있는 것이 아무 것도 없었습니다. 물론 현재도 할 수 있는 일이 없는건 마찬가지입니다.. 그동안 믿고 기다려 주셨던 분들과 지지해 주셨던 분들께 진심으로 사죄드립니다. 앞으로 어떤 형태가 될지는 모르겠지만 다시 찾아뵙게 된다면 초심으로 겸손한 BJ로 돌아오도록 하겠습니다.
With this unfortunate news, LoveTV's credibility has most likely plummeted along with any high hopes of any possible big events related to BW from her....
So in terms of big picture and big BW scene as a whole, our best hope for BW leagues lies to Kongdoo, Sonic, OGN and technically left to two big leagues (plus the smaller events by other parties). Lukcily Kongdoo is owned by YellOw so support for BW will go on for a bit, same said with Sonic, let's hope Sonic lobbied OGN enough to supply BW for years to come.
On June 05 2015 07:56 QuickStriker wrote: Thanks for the info/news prech and jingyung2.
With this unfortunate news, LoveTV's credibility has most likely plummeted along with any high hopes of any possible big events related to BW from her....
So in terms of big picture and big BW scene as a whole, our best hope for BW leagues lies to Kongdoo, Sonic, OGN and technically left to two big leagues (plus the smaller events by other parties). Lukcily Kongdoo is owned by YellOw so support for BW will go on for a bit, same said with Sonic, let's hope Sonic lobbied OGN enough to supply BW for years to come.
I feel Sonic is almost at the level where he doesn't even need OGN anymore if they were to stop support. He's so huge now. I don't think he will ever let BW go either.
On June 05 2015 07:56 QuickStriker wrote: Thanks for the info/news prech and jingyung2.
With this unfortunate news, LoveTV's credibility has most likely plummeted along with any high hopes of any possible big events related to BW from her....
So in terms of big picture and big BW scene as a whole, our best hope for BW leagues lies to Kongdoo, Sonic, OGN and technically left to two big leagues (plus the smaller events by other parties). Lukcily Kongdoo is owned by YellOw so support for BW will go on for a bit, same said with Sonic, let's hope Sonic lobbied OGN enough to supply BW for years to come.
I feel Sonic is almost at the level where he doesn't even need OGN anymore if they were to stop support. He's so huge now. I don't think he will ever let BW go either.
Can I ask how you feel he's near 'that' level? ^^ I feel slightly differently.
On June 05 2015 07:56 QuickStriker wrote: Thanks for the info/news prech and jingyung2.
With this unfortunate news, LoveTV's credibility has most likely plummeted along with any high hopes of any possible big events related to BW from her....
So in terms of big picture and big BW scene as a whole, our best hope for BW leagues lies to Kongdoo, Sonic, OGN and technically left to two big leagues (plus the smaller events by other parties). Lukcily Kongdoo is owned by YellOw so support for BW will go on for a bit, same said with Sonic, let's hope Sonic lobbied OGN enough to supply BW for years to come.
I feel Sonic is almost at the level where he doesn't even need OGN anymore if they were to stop support. He's so huge now. I don't think he will ever let BW go either.
My opinion differs about Sonic in growth and his investment. Aside from BW we all know, Sonic also invested in LoL, SC2 and whatever else that's related to games or entertainment.
But at the end of the day, his company is a shoe company that's basically equivalent to Nike, Converse or any other shoe company. He's still just starting out with his business too, his company has at best hundreds of workers (compared to tens of thousands of employee in major shoe companies) and his company isn't a publicly traded stock corporation yet. Compared that to Samsung, SKT, KT, CJ (CJ owns movie industry, food, OGN, etc), Sonic's SBENU dwarf in that comparison since there's only one focus/department: shoes. But Korean corporations have/own multiple entities and spread its business to multiple sections.
So Sonic's business still has a long way to go and also has a limit to how much he can spend $$$ to invest for PR uses like BW. And because he only has few hundreds employees at most to manage his company, he can invest mostly however he want with little to no opposition. Once and if his business grows to the point there's stockholders and other investors to please to, they may advise Sonic to cut BW off completely someday...
I don't think sbenu is going public anytime soon. Also I would guess at least some, if not all, of the money Sonic spends on esports comes out of pocket.
It's coming back, LoveTV Starleague. Tomorrow, preparations for the > 본격 - real, genuine, full-fledged, full-blown, full-scale, genuine[regular] style < league begin.
There's nothing on her afreeca page yet, but the original LSL3 announcement disappeared, so I don't think it'll be exactly the LSL we were promised. Maybe it's a new sponsor?
bonus legs. i think she aims to become the next-gen sorim nuna
EPT
Mind, 
TBA, 
Killer, 
TBA, 
Shuttle, 
TBA, 
9th SonicTV Starleague. This means the organizers will require a Blizzard license to stream the event; sOoL is aware of this and is taking the necessary steps.
flabbergasted really amazing job organizing this event getting sponsors etc
Bisu, 
Larva, and 
Sea, 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qwW5eOx.jpg)
--![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WMBxBXa.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KIrSIWJ.jpg)
