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Mumei
United States254 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:16 loveeholicce wrote: Fine, situational  . I've never seen it work though aside from Jaedong vs Flash on uh....some map. It seems most agree that lurker ling is a better way to play though, unless Terran opens wraiths | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:07 loveeholicce wrote: Well it depends on the matchup, and even in the matchup it depends on the situation. Some units are just universally useless (ex. the scout). Some units are useless but have niche roles (ex. valkyries can be used in rare situations in TvZ to combat mass muta, especially when you go mech) Most units though are just highly matchup specific. For example: - you only see MnM in TvZ - Hydras are worthless vs bio TvZ - Corsairs in anything but PvZ suck, but in PvZ theyre a staple unit - Science vessels don't get used in TvT 90% of the time - Battlecruisers are bad in everything but TvT (and VERY rarely TvZ) - Arbiters are only used in PvT Etc  Deep Six is a not that uncommon. I've at least seen it more times than scouts. The only real example I've seen of actual use of the scout is in the Kal vs. Forgg game linked earlier. I think all other units have use in certain strategies. | ||
Aesop
Hungary11284 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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Aesop
Hungary11284 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:41 JohannesH wrote: Scouts have some use, they can take down carriers and battlecruisers effectively. Of course those are not units you see in vP almost ever, but that's thanks to the threat of scouts partly. I'd rather MC the Carriers and BCs if I was Protoss. Can still be seen in the 2006 pimpest plays (look for "Grand Theft Carrier at about 23:30) | ||
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
I remember one game where Flying creatively used a scout for its greater line of sight, so that he could scout the terran's defenses before going in with carriers. To be fair, his opponent was a rookie and Flying didn't play all that well, but the scout was effective nonetheless. Link: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/43418_Flying_vs_SungEun/vod | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:07 loveeholicce wrote: Well it depends on the matchup, and even in the matchup it depends on the situation. Some units are just universally useless (ex. the scout). Some units are useless but have niche roles (ex. valkyries can be used in rare situations in TvZ to combat mass muta, especially when you go mech) Most units though are just highly matchup specific. For example: - you only see MnM in TvZ - Hydras are worthless vs bio TvZ - Corsairs in anything but PvZ suck, but in PvZ theyre a staple unit - Science vessels don't get used in TvT 90% of the time - Battlecruisers are bad in everything but TvT (and VERY rarely TvZ) - Arbiters are only used in PvT Etc Vessels are SO key in long TvTs, both for detecting wraiths, d-matrix, and emp on BCs. | ||
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Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
Ghosts are usually useless. Valks, Dark Archons, and Devourers have potential use. I think ghosts and DA are under rated and could be used to pull some sweet shit off. DA's maelstrom is just extremely good, too bad it costs an arm and a leg in energy. Ghosts lock down would be great against carriers and potential recalls, but there are more cost effective solutions (Science vessels). | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:27 garbanzo wrote: Deep Six is a not that uncommon. I've at least seen it more times than scouts. The only real example I've seen of actual use of the scout is in the Kal vs. Forgg game linked earlier. I think all other units have use in certain strategies.It's pretty uncommon. Last year and this year I've seen Flash use it 3 times, Midas fail with it vs Best on grandline, and light fail with it in his MSL group last year. Probably missing 3 or 4 other cases but thats about it, and think about the hundres of TvPs that have been played the last 2 seasons | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2747 Posts
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Arkqn
France589 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:16 loveeholicce wrote: Fine, situational . I've never seen it work though aside from Jaedong vs Flash on uh....some map. It seems most agree that lurker ling is a better way to play though, unless Terran opens wraithsWatch Hero vs Hwasin Ro8 set 2(or 3 i don't remember), some OSLs back then. Edit: Ok, found it. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10125 Posts
Sair only really vs Z. Sometimes vs T for the d-web on tanks. MM only vs Z, unless Deep 6 (and apparently Fantasy recommends it against queens in TvZ. Get it?) BC's only TvT, BM by fbh vs Z Wraiths only vs T, sometimes used vs Z to pick off ovs... Valks vs T if mass wraiths, vs Z if you're Fantasy xD Scouts just suk in general. Carriers only PvT, hardly used vs Z nemore. Arbiters only vT, seldom in other M/U Devourers only in ZvZ Hydras only in PvZ... sometimes in vT and Hivetech vZ | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:16 loveeholicce wrote: Fine, situational . I've never seen it work though aside from Jaedong vs Flash on uh....some map. It seems most agree that lurker ling is a better way to play though, unless Terran opens wraithsEr, I was under the impression that hydra/lurk/defiler was still the go to composition against SK terran. | ||
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Ideas
United States8084 Posts
Devourers are really good in lategame zvz, but that's about it. Really I would say scouts and sorta ghosts are the only unused units in the game, although ghosts still havea lot of potential. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On May 01 2011 02:17 white_horse wrote: pros occassionally use dark archons in PvZ against defilers And in PvP against High Templars. Anyway, the only really useless unit is the Scout. Even infested terrans aren't totally useless, they're just really hard to get and only good in certain situations. But, if you do get them, bombing a mineral line of a newly claimed expansion is pretty good. Even if turrets are up, you can land them on the ground and then run to the SCVs. Also, about the scout, I've actually seen one pro game where the scout won the game for the Protoss. P went 12 nexus on colosseum, T went 2 fact contain. P broke out of it with scouts, forcing the terran to get goliaths and to start building turrets, but he kept killing the SCVs building the turrets. By the time goliaths came out (you really don't want to get goliaths when you're doing a 2 fac) it was too late. Having to go goliaths meant a weaker contain. Also, he lost many SCVs trying to build turrets. This let the P break out with zealots and dragoons + the 3 or 4 scouts he made. If he hadn't made scouts, he would have lost. | ||
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fatfail
United States386 Posts
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Pizza_man
20 Posts
On May 01 2011 01:59 eviltomahawk wrote: Although Scouts are usually useless, I do remember this one instance of them being useful, even saving the player from near defeat: Yes, Scout would work as useful. But there is only one shot like your example in e-sports history. | ||
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deafhobbit
United States828 Posts
On May 01 2011 03:27 Ideas wrote: Dark archons are actually really good in lategame pvp and pvz. Feedbacking HTs and delifers is so useful, and maelstorm is great vs ultraling. Devourers are really good in lategame zvz, but that's about it. Really I would say scouts and sorta ghosts are the only unused units in the game, although ghosts still havea lot of potential. Agreed, ghosts and scouts are the only unit that doesn't seem to have a place in modern BW. Many units are only useful in rare circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a place. Queens - Even if terran figures out a way to shut them down vs mech, they will always have a place in late game ZvZ. This might not happen that often, but when it does they are amazing. Guardian - Surprise tech switch unit vT. Devourer - Useful in late game ZvZ and late game PvZ when P went for a lot of sairs. Wraith - Very good in TvT, sometimes useful in TvZ. Valk - Useful in some TvZ openings to handle muta's, and in TvT to handle mass wraiths. BC - Lategame TvT, and possibly some late game TvZ for base sniping. DA - Useful in lategame PvZ when Z has big air, and and in PvP. Just because these units are situational, that doesn't mean they're not useful. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2257 Posts
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