All units minus workers Terran - marine, medic, firebat, ghost, vulture, tank, goalith, science vessel, wraith, valk, dropship, bc Protoss - zealot, dragoon, ht, dt, dark archon, archon, obs, shuttle, reaver, scout, corsair, carrier, arbiter Zerg - ling, hydra, muta, guard, devourer, lurker, queen, cow, defiler, scourge
TvT Standard units - marine, vulture, tank, goalith, dropship (for standard builds) wraiths are somewhat common too, there are a couple openings with them medics and firebats are basically never seen. ghosts can be used for nukes but thats it valks are used to counter mass wraith, so theyre kinda rare late game can go into bc, and science vessels are used to emp the bcs
PvP Standard units - zealot, dragoon, ht, dt, archon, obs, shuttle, reaver dark archons are sometimes used to snipe ht scouts are virtually useless carriers are never reached either... i think ive seen them once by Anytime (lol one base carriers) arbiters are too late game too... but ive seen them twice i think
ZvZ Standard units - ling, muta, ling, muta, scourge every other unit is potentially used in late game
TvP T Standard - marine, vulture, tank, goalith, science vessel (counter arbs), dropships MnM is basically only used as a surprise IMA KILL YOU play. otherwise they get raped by ht and reavers. medics are sometimes used to blind obs. ghosts sometimes lockdown or nuke (hiya) wraiths get raped by goons... but hiya used them valks are worthless.. and bcs are not cost effective P Standard - zealot, goon, ht, dt, obs, shuttle, reaver, carrier arbiter (late game) dark archons are basically useless as are scouts archons melt to science vessel emps, but they are sometimes used... corsairs have been used before i think? for the dweb... but very rare nowadays
TvZ T Standard - marine, medic (MnM), goalith, tank, vulture (mech), science vessel, dropship wraiths are sometimes used on 2port openings, valks are used in some openings too against mutas firebats are mixed in sometimes against swarm, ghosts are only for nukes bcs are very rare but occasionally used Z Standard - ling, muta, lurker, defiler, scourge, cow hydras used for lurkers... and also against mech or late game hydra+swarm combo guardians are used for surprise buttsecks. devourers are very rarely used... queens arent used very often, but zero/soulkey have been using them recently against mech
PvZ P Standard - lot, goon, ht, dt, archon, obs, shuttle, reaver, corsair dark archons are sometimes used for feedback or maletrom on muta stacks scouts just blow carriers/abs are rarely ever used Z Standard - ling, hydra, muta, lurker, cow, defiler, scourge queens serve almost no purpose, maybe to slow an army but i havent seen them guards are used rarely in tech switches or super turtle toss... but rarely devourers are useless mostly (maybe seen once??)
I thought it was Much who did 1 base carrier vs Bisu. We also saw Bisu using scouts to counter the carriers that game. Carriers used to be used quite a lot in pvps, but not now. Maybe pvp has evolved to the stage where the timing window that can build carriers are very small.
On May 01 2011 01:57 GG.NoRe wrote: Infested Terrans
lol completely forgot about infested terrans. command centres are infested all the time but infested terrans are so rarely used. i think i've only ever seen them in PvZ on holy world lol
How on earth did you see them in a PvZ O.o
Scouts are great units because unlike ghosts and devourers they have no legitimate use, at least the others fit into a niche no matter how small. As soon as you see scouts you know its to make fun of the opponent
On May 01 2011 01:57 GG.NoRe wrote: Infested Terrans
lol completely forgot about infested terrans. command centres are infested all the time but infested terrans are so rarely used. i think i've only ever seen them in PvZ on holy world lol
How on earth did you see them in a PvZ O.o
It may seem like it's impossible, but ZerO made it happen
On May 01 2011 08:45 phosphorylation wrote: How about 4-5 valks to "soften" the interceptors and the rest goliaths to clean them up?
The reason valkyries arent really used is because once the map gets filled out with sprites they wont fire, and this can happen quite frequently, leaving you with some 3 supply units that cant even shoot
Is there a reason Blizzard never patched this?
It is a bug, or maybe a limit, in the engine, they would have to rework the whole game to fix it
its an engine limit, BW cant handle more than a certain amount
I saw a super late game pvp a year or 2 ago where the map was mined out and both players were basically relying on da mind controls to steal the other guy's carriers.
i think someday we will see more scout use. Gotta remember that 2 years ago, wraith to counter shuttle harass was considered laughable. I think scouts can be used to protect the shuttle and counter the wraith.
i also think they could see more use in pvz. Starcraft 무환도전 on MBC broadcast a game where some amateur massed scouts and proceeded to rape every zerg unit thrown at it. If you have enough scouts, like 24, they can kill everything zerg has to defend against it besides mass devourers + mutas.
On May 06 2011 11:11 d_so wrote: i think someday we will see more scout use. Gotta remember that 2 years ago, wraith to counter shuttle harass was considered laughable. I think scouts can be used to protect the shuttle and counter the wraith.
i also think they could see more use in pvz. Starcraft 무환도전 on MBC broadcast a game where some amateur massed scouts and proceeded to rape every zerg unit thrown at it. If you have enough scouts, like 24, they can kill everything zerg has to defend against it besides mass devourers + mutas.
The problem is the existence of the corsair, sair shuttle reaver is already a known build, scouts are slower (until you get upgrade) and has no splash, the vs ground damage is too low especially if you're using it to protect a shuttle reaver.
On May 06 2011 11:11 d_so wrote: i think someday we will see more scout use. Gotta remember that 2 years ago, wraith to counter shuttle harass was considered laughable. I think scouts can be used to protect the shuttle and counter the wraith.
i also think they could see more use in pvz. Starcraft 무환도전 on MBC broadcast a game where some amateur massed scouts and proceeded to rape every zerg unit thrown at it. If you have enough scouts, like 24, they can kill everything zerg has to defend against it besides mass devourers + mutas.
wasnt a single wraith a pretty standard counter to shuttle harass going way back? I could of swore i remember watching some old PvTs (like 2002-2005) where terran (either nada/boxer/cloud/midas i think) made a wraith to counter shuttle. i think it went a little out of style for a while during 2007-2008, but came back.
Scouts are the only useless unit, all other units have potential uses in certain situations. I think infested terrans are really under rated. I think they are never used because its usually a rare event to see a queen, but a queen that actually infests a command center, that has gotta be 1 in a hundred thousand. And then building an infested terran? Either a joke or the point in the game were it doesn't really matter. But if they were more accessible, I'm sure they would be used much more frequently. I mean hold position lurkers are bad enough for bio, but burrowed infested terrans would drive you nuts, or even infested terran drops. I mean the only thing SC2 did with the infested terran is made it easier to obtained (banelings), and they are used very frequently.
On May 06 2011 11:11 d_so wrote: i think someday we will see more scout use. Gotta remember that 2 years ago, wraith to counter shuttle harass was considered laughable. I think scouts can be used to protect the shuttle and counter the wraith.
i also think they could see more use in pvz. Starcraft 무환도전 on MBC broadcast a game where some amateur massed scouts and proceeded to rape every zerg unit thrown at it. If you have enough scouts, like 24, they can kill everything zerg has to defend against it besides mass devourers + mutas.
wasnt a single wraith a pretty standard counter to shuttle harass going way back? I could of swore i remember watching some old PvTs (like 2002-2005) where terran (either nada/boxer/cloud/midas i think) made a wraith to counter shuttle. i think it went a little out of style for a while during 2007-2008, but came back.
maybe, since my history only goes back to 2007 you're probably right
dark archons, ghosts, devolours, valks and queens all have their role in the game,
-dark archons can end stalmates and hard counter mass carriers in pvp -ghosts with nukes help end stalmates in tvt and lockdown can be used to counter carriers to some extent -devourers counter mass cosairs with carriers -valks counter mass mutas and other air units. -queen usage as gone up lately to counter mech, before it was used for ensnare to counter cosair carrier
scouts are the only unit that seem to lack any type of role, i suppose scouts are kinda good against guardians, well at least better than sairs since guardians have 2 armor which makes sairs take ages to kill them. other than that scouts are pretty much useless.
I'm not sure but has Terran Structures lifting off and then landing down on Interceptors (destroying them) ever been used in a televised match?
If you did not know or simply forgot, Terran structures could destroy intercepts by landing on them >.> (or that is by landing while interceptors are occupying the same space as the landing structure).
On May 08 2011 08:48 Goldfish wrote: I'm not sure but has Terran Structures lifting off and then landing down on Interceptors (destroying them) ever been used in a televised match?
If you did not know or simply forgot, Terran structures could destroy intercepts by landing on them >.> (or that is by landing while interceptors are occupying the same space as the landing structure).
Only seen that in a boxer highlight movie from years ago. It was probably televised but doubt there's a vod. I'm pretty sure the glitch still exists and afaik there is no iccup or kespa ruling against it.
can anyone recall that pvz it was g5 v some korean pro zerg i think it was in g5's TSL1 reppack but not sure. g5 used awesome scout micro against muta/devourer/guardian i think.
EPT
Anytime (lol one base carriers)
valks are worthless.. and bcs are not cost effective
