EPTiloveoov...most dominant of all time? - Page 7
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On January 14 2011 10:47 StylishVODs wrote: Everyone pretty much vanished when Flash started to dominate, or atleast it looked like it. fantasy gave him one hell of a fight in the bigfile msl semis. effort gave him good fights and even beat him in the korean air osl finals. jd made it to 4 of 6 finals that season and set a new personal elo peak during the process. kal had a very good season, but was stopped at the semis by flash or jd again and again. its not like he had no opposition at all. the fact that jd also had a very good and dominant season just meant that many other potentially dangerous players were taken out before flash could play em. | ||
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etch
Canada176 Posts
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Musou
1375 Posts
On January 14 2011 10:40 LG)Sabbath wrote: Remember when jaedong was #1? Fantasy, leta, jangbi, much, hwasin, mind, sea, calm, luxury were all doing good. Guess who wasn't winning starleagues? Flash. But then all those players pretty much vanished for 2 years. It was then that Flash started slapping people around. Eventually he figured JD out and that was it. It's getting pretty obvious that you're just hating on Flash instead of looking at it objectively. Fantasy had the best year of his career in 2010 in terms of win rate. Sea got past the round of 16 for the first time in 2010. Leta has been relatively consistent and one of the non-S-class players to be called an S-class indicator. Calm and Kal were also considered S-class indicators as of 2010 by Korean media. Flash has had to defeat the toughest opponents consistently to get to finals in individual leagues, all while maintaining a nearly 90% win ratio in Proleague before his string of ace losses in R5. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
You can't just compare about league finals and achievements, because winning a starleague now and then probably held different status. Some may say that its blasphemy to think this way as playing standards are at a much higher level now, but i would probably credit it to flash's nature of undying determination to do well. After all, newer generations of progamers have to conform to playing standards. Flash is without a doubt the most dominant player now, but i wouldn't compare since theres just too many factors involved for an accurate comparison to be made to sieve out thw most dominant player of all time. | ||
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dras
Kazakhstan376 Posts
On January 14 2011 10:45 GTR wrote: i did, and i will comfortably say that flash > oov. noted, thank you  would you say flash crushes oov, or is it splitting hairs? | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Oov's dominance is scary because, as stated, he came out of nowhere and dominated the greatest players in the world. 2010 Flash did not come out of no where - he won an OSL two years prior. Oov became a Bonjwa (even if the term wasn't in high use back then) in literally a matter of months out of beginning his professional career. That's impressive as all hell. And it was scary as all hell back then. Sure Boxer chose him... but he had a completely different style - he was _not_ Boxer's apprentice like Fantasy is to oov. Oov came out of BNet and destroyed everybody. Oov dominance shattered beliefs about what could be done. That's why he is even considered to compare with Flash. But shock and awe is not the same as dominance. After those first few months he continued to win golds, but never dominated enough to make dual finals the same season. Flash is late 2009 to early 2010 has nearly as good win/loss record as Oov from late 2003 to early 2004. Oov gets the nod in pure win loss in their respective periods. But he still wasn't doing anything in the OSL. Flash picked up another loss or two but traded them for a silver. This is far more impressive. Meanwhile, after these few months, Flash continued to dominate 2010 and go to 4 more finals and get 3 more golds. Oov's record for the latter half of 2004 is inferior to Flash's from the latter half of 2010. He got 3 more golds, but he faltered in several leagues and didn't make dual finals. Here's something that will show you true dominance. OSL and MSL listed in order of tournament completion. Gold and Silver only listed. Oov - 7 tournaments - 4 golds - 0 silvers  iloveoov >  YellOw Kingdom > Nal_rANal_rA > Zeusiloveoov > NaDaJuly > Reachiloveoov > Kingdomiloveoov > BoxeRFlash - 6 tournaments - 4 Golds - 2 Silvers Flash > MovieJaedong > FlashEffOrt > FlashFlash > JaedongFlash >JaedongFlash > JaedongFlash's dominance didn't pause to allow other players to make the finals. 'Nuff said. Oov's scariness from being dominant so quickly perhaps clouds people's memories of following the Starleague finals that oov watched on TV. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Pro starcraft is all about winning, or placing very high in leagues. Starleagues, proleague and wcg (wich probably is far less important). The skill level of the opponents at the time should have nothing to do with it. It's more impressive, but not more dominating if the opponents were better. Oov might have "roflstomped" alot of his opponents, something I'd say Flash also has done with a few exeptions, but he still didn't even make it to half as many finals as Flash did. Oov was consistantly knocked out of one league at a time, while flash remained in both and flash accomplished far more than oov did during their prime year. Flash was in more finals than oov and won more finals than oov. Thats it. Edit: Nice post crisium, pretty much sums it up. | ||
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dras
Kazakhstan376 Posts
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
I'd have to agree with the OP, though I think that Flash DOES have more of an "aura" of dominance than oov, he's certainly not as dominant. | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
On January 14 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote: really? oO well, it was the de facto finals, as kal has been flash´s and jaedong´s bitch forever. he has an atrocious winrate against both of them... Sort of derailing here, but every BW fan needs to watch that FvJ series. Because of WCG's lack of prestige compared to the OSL and MSL (like Olympics is to the NBA), those games got far less attention (or at least it seemed like it). | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
I think what also increases Flash's dominance over all others is that he had to compete with Jaedong the whole time (including 4 finals). The only thing bad you could say about Flash's past year was the Ace match slump. On January 14 2011 14:49 Kimaker wrote: Honestly...the issue remains, that Flash has The Tyrant to worry about. Sure, he may be the best (a contested point to some die hard JD fans), but if Jaedong, or Stork were to play him, no one is going to bet all their marbles on Flash. Period. The potential for loss against these two remains a constant. For oov, who was there? July? That was the beginning of him mortality. I'd have to agree with the OP, though I think that Flash DOES have more of an "aura" of dominance than oov, he's certainly not as dominant. If i had seen a Flash vs Jaedong anytime in the past year, i would definitely have bet my marbles on Flash. Vs stork is slightly different but I would still favor Flash above stork. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
On January 14 2011 13:36 StylishVODs wrote: I don't understand why it's so hard to compare the two. Pro starcraft is all about winning, or placing very high in leagues. Starleagues, proleague and wcg (wich probably is far less important). The skill level of the opponents at the time should have nothing to do with it. It's more impressive, but not more dominating if the opponents were better. Oov might have "roflstomped" alot of his opponents, something I'd say Flash also has done with a few exeptions, but he still didn't even make it to half as many finals as Flash did. Oov was consistantly knocked out of one league at a time, while flash remained in both and flash accomplished far more than oov did during their prime year. Flash was in more finals than oov and won more finals than oov. Thats it. Edit: Nice post crisium, pretty much sums it up. Aren't you that guy that did the FPVODs for Terran and did some Flash build thing, I watched those in 2008 ^^ Yeah the stats don't lie, and Flash still maintains his godliness aura when he plays, when you watch him you just don't feel like he can lose, of course this is slightly biased because I only followed the scene in 2008, but this is still important because of the impression he gives even to newer followers of the scene, because ultimately, how much he dominates is based on public opinion. NaDa may have more titles at the moment, but I feel that in time Flash will easily surpass that unless TaekBangLee pull out the god-mode, he's easily playing the best games of Starcraft anyone has seen - and no I don't find them boring However, if I were a progamer and saw that I was playing someone with those stats on the OP screenshot I'd shit my pants. EDIT: I'd bet my marbles on Flash vs anyone at the moment with his current form. (Though I'd pray for Jaedong to somehow pull through ^^) | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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Dingotrold
Denmark622 Posts
Without Boxer, no oov. Boxer obv most dominant player of all time. Problem debaters? User was warned for this post | ||
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weiliem
2073 Posts
Remember July's existence in Oov's domination period, and where July 3-0ed Oov in 1 of the finals during Oov's domination..... | ||
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weiliem
2073 Posts
On January 14 2011 15:59 Dingotrold wrote: Without oov, no Flash. Without Boxer, no oov. Boxer obv most dominant player of all time. Problem debaters? Without Blizzard, no starcraft without starcraft, no boxer so blizzard is the most dominant? xP | ||
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
On January 14 2011 08:51 Roffles wrote: The guy made people look BAD. Fuck, we're talking about a guy who used to be credited with the longest TvZ winstreak at 27 games. Opened his career with 27 TvZ victories. He pretty much shit on everyone in the day, and he made them look SILLY. Crushed Nada, the Terran genius of the day. This guy was undoubtedly the best player for a year, and he made everyone look really really bad. If you had a finals between Oov and anyone else, I'd pick Oov simply cause that guy was a champ when it mattered. If you had a finals between Flash and anyone else, there are times where I'd actually pick other players. Like if Flash played Jaedong on better maps, I'd pick JD to win over Flash. But back in those days, there was absolutely 0 doubt in anyone's mind that iloveoov was going to win the finals once he got there. Because he was that good. Same here. When I watch oov that time, it made me feel like the game was really broken and there is no way to fix it. I can't feel the same for flash. Maybe because of the ceiling the game has reached today. But anyways, oov was really really scary during that time. And also, Ma Jae Yoon!! | ||
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GG_NO_RE
Japan238 Posts
On January 14 2011 15:59 Dingotrold wrote: Without oov, no Flash. Without Boxer, no oov. Boxer obv most dominant player of all time. Problem debaters? trolling? please learn the difference between dominant and influential | ||
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