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iloveoov...most dominant of all time? - Page 9

Forum Index > BW General
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Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
January 14 2011 13:21 GMT
#161
On January 14 2011 18:42 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 23:18 Holgerius wrote:
I think Flash's 2010 is more ridculous.


Flash's '10 run is enough for me to call him one of the best and most dominant players.
If just he wouldn't have lost to fucking EffOrt i would actually call him the best


Really, you hold Flash back for losing to Effort in the finals? What about Oov losing even before the OSL Ro16 twice during his dominant period? Or losing to July in a semi-finals? So it is more dominate to lose early in the tournament, usually to non-champions?

On January 14 2011 19:40 J1.au wrote:
I keep hearing that iloveoov more dominant than Flash because of the way he won. Supposedly he made his opponents "look bad". If all iloveoov was doing during his prime was rolling over people with ease then he should have better results to show for it. The fact remains that iloveoov was regularly dropping individual leagues in his prime. He was getting knocked out of one individual league a season by other players. He obviously didn't make those players "look bad", nor he did he "dominate" them.


Indeed.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1031 Posts
January 14 2011 14:03 GMT
#162
oov is the most dominant, how can you even argue against someone dethroning Boxer. Btw I don't buy the 'it was easier back then' story, the fact is that oov shifted the whole meta-game with his new method of playing, while Flash already had all possible strategies and perfected matchups served to him on a gold plate.

And btw Flash played for a lot longer...
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
January 14 2011 14:15 GMT
#163
On January 13 2011 23:09 dras wrote:
- Had a stretch from 2003.10.23 to 2004.02.03, in which he went 33–3 (according to TLPD). This is the best streak by a player of all time.

What does this mean, exactly? I went 3-0 once. Rate-wise, surely that's better.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 14 2011 14:20 GMT
#164
The fact that Oov innovated the game the way he did is actually not very relevant when talking about how dominant he was. If we are discussing influence, sure, but that is not the topic.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
January 14 2011 14:26 GMT
#165
On January 14 2011 23:20 Holgerius wrote:
The fact that Oov innovated the game the way he did is actually not very relevant when talking about how dominant he was. If we are discussing influence, sure, but that is not the topic.


I think its quite the opposite. The new level of play that oov introduced is the reason why his domination was so strong. His style was something new and gamebreaking and people didnt know what to do against it.

Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1031 Posts
January 14 2011 14:28 GMT
#166
On January 14 2011 23:20 Holgerius wrote:
The fact that Oov innovated the game the way he did is actually not very relevant when talking about how dominant he was. If we are discussing influence, sure, but that is not the topic.

Yes it is very relevant or else there is no discussion about who is the most dominant, if you only look at stats.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 14 2011 14:30 GMT
#167
On January 14 2011 23:26 mdb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2011 23:20 Holgerius wrote:
The fact that Oov innovated the game the way he did is actually not very relevant when talking about how dominant he was. If we are discussing influence, sure, but that is not the topic.


I think its quite the opposite. The new level of play that oov introduced is the reason why his domination was so strong. His style was something new and gamebreaking and people didnt know what to do against it.

It is the reason why, yes, but it doesn't make him more dominating than if he had gotten the same results by any other means. Fact; Oov didn't reach dual finals despite having this style that ''people didn't know what to do against''.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
January 14 2011 14:37 GMT
#168
I dont think that this fact, that you mention is relevant to the topic of discussion. You can say it in another way :

Fact: oov is 5-0 in finals - total dominance
Fact: flash is not 5-0 in finals - not total dominance
Bisu-Fan
Profile Joined January 2010
Russian Federation3339 Posts
January 14 2011 14:38 GMT
#169
I wanna say oov is the most dominant player of all time...
I mean, he had such a short time where he came straight off the bat and dominated until his untimely injury which led to his retirement and (i think) exemption from the army~
The Revolutionist Shall Rise Again! No. 1 Kim Taek Yong Fan 어헣↗ GO JAEDONG!!!!!!! GO ACE!!! 태연 <3 윤아 <3 승연 <3
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 14 2011 14:40 GMT
#170
On January 14 2011 23:37 mdb wrote:
I dont think that this fact, that you mention is relevant to the topic of discussion. You can say it in another way :

Fact: oov is 5-0 in finals - total dominance
Fact: flash is not 5-0 in finals - not total dominance

What the fuck? This is just so stupid. Are you serious?
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
tabula rasa
Profile Joined December 2010
360 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-14 14:46:32
January 14 2011 14:45 GMT
#171
On January 14 2011 23:37 mdb wrote:
I dont think that this fact, that you mention is relevant to the topic of discussion. You can say it in another way :

Fact: oov is 5-0 in finals - total dominance
Fact: flash is not 5-0 in finals - not total dominance

Fact: flash is 6-0 in reaching a year's worth of finals.
Fact: oov is not 6-0 in reaching a year's worth of finals.

It can go both ways.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6574 Posts
January 14 2011 14:46 GMT
#172
On January 14 2011 23:37 mdb wrote:
I dont think that this fact, that you mention is relevant to the topic of discussion. You can say it in another way :

Fact: oov is 5-0 in finals - total dominance
Fact: flash is not 5-0 in finals - not total dominance

Honestly? Have you read any of my posts about this?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-14 14:51:50
January 14 2011 14:50 GMT
#173
I was being ironic (failed attempt).What I was trying to say, is that the fact that oov didnt reach dual finals does not mean a lot when talking about dominance.
dras
Profile Joined August 2010
Kazakhstan376 Posts
January 14 2011 15:08 GMT
#174
what about flash losing in the msl and osl last month though? his decision making was pretty terrible in those games.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-14 15:13:15
January 14 2011 15:11 GMT
#175
Oh, but it does. It is very common when discussing Savior or Oov for people to make it sound as though they were unbeatable, when clearly they weren't. There's always this talk about ''People just knew he was gonna win before the games even started''. Well, guess people were wrong quite a lot. 4 golds (and golds in WCG+WL+PL) and 2 silvers is better and more dominant than 4 golds.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
January 14 2011 15:36 GMT
#176
Just as it takes someone as smart as Boxer or Flash to cheese at the right times, it takes someone as smart as oov or Savior to see it coming every single time.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81288

Ohh.. things are so different now..
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
January 14 2011 15:51 GMT
#177
It really can't be questioned that Flash dominated more. It also can't be questioned that Oov did far more for the BW scene that Flash (or damn near anyone else) did.

I mean really, when Flash gets it to the point where he makes BW boring by making every final the same thing for a year, that's just pure fucking domination.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
January 14 2011 15:57 GMT
#178
On January 15 2011 00:08 dras wrote:
what about flash losing in the msl and osl last month though? his decision making was pretty terrible in those games.



We're talking about Flash's 2010 up until the beginning of those starleagues (since those leagues actually finish in 2011).
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
January 14 2011 16:37 GMT
#179
16-3 vs protoss over that period of time LOL........
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 14 2011 17:10 GMT
#180
On January 15 2011 01:37 dangots0ul wrote:
16-3 vs protoss over that period of time LOL........

Roughly the same win-rate as Flash had during 2010 vs Protoss (with around 50 games played).
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
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