I was trolling... Thought the last sentence would give away my intentions. There is a point to be made though, in terms of understanding why any comparison will never be definite.

United States6173 Posts

January 14 2011 08:06 GMT

#143

On January 13 2011 23:23 oBlade wrote:
iloveoov ultimately took the H.O.T-Forever route of team welfare > selfish individual attempts at stardom. Also, he got married. But I'd agree with Holgerius, how can you look at sAviOr's measly run and ignore Flash? A whole host of Zergs were ZvP gods.

He didn't get married until like a year and a half ago, which was far before he fell off the radar.

moopie

12605 Posts

January 14 2011 08:34 GMT

#144

On January 13 2011 23:23 oBlade wrote:
iloveoov ultimately took the H.O.T-Forever route of team welfare > selfish individual attempts at stardom.

ultimately he became a coach because the alternative was just retiring after his wrist injury. He didn't really have too many attempts left at stardom so this wasn't about being selfish/non-selfish.

Mindcrime

United States6899 Posts

January 14 2011 08:39 GMT

#145

On January 14 2011 16:26 weiliem wrote:
Y nobody seems to (T)

Remember

July's existence in (T)

Oov's domination period, and where (Z)

July 3-0ed (T)

Oov in 1 of the finals during (T)

Oov's domination.....

That might be because that never happened.

July beat him 3-1 in the ITV finals, but that was after what I consider to be Oov's period of invincibility.

rift

1819 Posts

January 14 2011 09:03 GMT

#146

Talk is cheap, peak ELO is not.

(T)

Flash 2443
(T)

iloveoov 2355 (-88)
(T)

NaDa 2326 (-29)
(Z)

sAviOr 2326

Sqq

Norway2023 Posts

January 14 2011 09:06 GMT

#147

For me he is the most dominant player of all time. When he played he went 5-0 in major tournament finals, he also did it in a shorter span than anyone. His periode of dominance is by far the best.

nayumi

Australia6499 Posts

January 14 2011 09:08 GMT

#148

the thing is oov went from battle.net to osl winner just like that

everyone was like who the fuck is this guy and bam ... boxer cried ...

its like force and pressure ... oov might have a less significant force, but it was applied over a smaller area (i.e period of time) -> the pressure felt is greater ...

whereas every knows flash has been great all along and it comes to little surprised that he dominated the scene when there was literally only jaedong who had a shot at taking him down ... (bisu and stork slumped hard core) ... in short, flash was consistently good, and eventually became god while oov ate banana and bagged 5 golds ...

BatTheMan

Canada759 Posts

January 14 2011 09:25 GMT

#149

Papvin

Denmark610 Posts

January 14 2011 09:40 GMT

#150

I'm not oldschool enough to comment on Oov in detail, but as a zerg player and enthusiast (I've like always been cheeing for zerg lol, so biased), Flash 2010 was some of the most depressing in my life of pro starcraft watching. Whenever a game included Flash, I sometimes didn't even wanna watch because it was like being spoiled from the get go; it was that unlikely that Flash would lose.
Of course watching him play (whenever I didn't blindly rage "omg tvz imba ffs!!!") was beautiful, such brilliance and technical mastery have never been seen before, and probably never will. Oov was good (understatement, I know), but Flash is imo, the best a bw player will ever be. Noone can top that monster!

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

January 14 2011 09:41 GMT

#151

4 golds, 2 silvers, WCG gold, winner's league gold being MVP, proleague gold being MVP. Flash made it to EVERY finals, and won almost all of them. Iloveoov was knocked out of multiple leagues.

KinosJourney2

Sweden1811 Posts

January 14 2011 09:42 GMT

#152

On January 13 2011 23:18 Holgerius wrote:
I think Flash's 2010 is more ridculous.

Flash's '10 run is enough for me to call him one of the best and most dominant players.
If just he wouldn't have lost to fucking EffOrt i would actually call him the best

mdb

Bulgaria4059 Posts

January 14 2011 10:02 GMT

#153

In his peak, there was no doubt that oov will roll over his opponent like he is some newb. A lot of people claimed that this is the end of bw as he was just making the game uninteresting with his unparallel dominance. Boxer and Nadas best moments of domination are not even close when oov was doing his thing. If you search for older live report threads you can see that the games went like that "oov sending wokers to mine, oov getting out of his base, gg". It was ridiculous.

You never know what is going to happen when flash plays jd.

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17733 Posts

January 14 2011 10:34 GMT

#154

Thinking about this over for awhile I think I would actually say Flash is most dominant. My reasoning is that Oov's era was him mostly winning against people who didn't know how to play against the new macro play he introduced and after he got figured out he didn't reach the same dominance. While with Flash he came out on top of an already developed game and still brings new stuff time after time. When one thing gets figured out he brings another. During oov's time he was just so far ahead over everyone else which is why he won so many games. Influential I will say iloveoov is still the most but dominance will probably be considered Flash. Though I think Iloveoov had harder runs for his msl and osl wins while Flash never really had to face anyone besides Jaedong in the finals except his first osl win which was just absurdly insane. Its a hard call.

J1.au

Australia3596 Posts

January 14 2011 10:40 GMT

#155

I keep hearing that iloveoov more dominant than Flash because of the way he won. Supposedly he made his opponents "look bad". If all iloveoov was doing during his prime was rolling over people with ease then he should have better results to show for it. The fact remains that iloveoov was regularly dropping individual leagues in his prime. He was getting knocked out of one individual league a season by other players. He obviously didn't make those players "look bad", nor he did he "dominate" them.

Wolf

Korea (South)3290 Posts

January 14 2011 10:45 GMT

#156

I have to admit it's pretty amusing that most Brood War threads nowadays are about which player is best overall.

There's even another iloveoov thread on the first page;;

mdb

Bulgaria4059 Posts

January 14 2011 11:45 GMT

#157

On January 14 2011 19:40 J1.au wrote:
I keep hearing that iloveoov more dominant than Flash because of the way he won. Supposedly he made his opponents "look bad". If all iloveoov was doing during his prime was rolling over people with ease then he should have better results to show for it. The fact remains that iloveoov was regularly dropping individual leagues in his prime. He was getting knocked out of one individual league a season by other players. He obviously didn't make those players "look bad", nor he did he "dominate" them.

Why are you are arguing about something, which apparantly you cant comprehend? He made players look bad and he dominated everyone. Of course he didnt have 100% win record lol. Dominant is not equal to "the best".

clayn

Germany444 Posts

January 14 2011 11:47 GMT

#158

On January 13 2011 23:18 Holgerius wrote:
I think Flash's 2010 is more ridculous.

###
Flash is the beast!

mnesthes

5433 Posts

January 14 2011 13:09 GMT

#159

Just because oov can make other players look bad doesn't mean Flash can not. Check out the Flash vs Free series in KA OSL S2. Free was a potential Royal Roader, on a 9-game winning streak in the OSL and Flash said before the match that he would break Free's streak. Flash vs Best @ Fortress was also worth checking imo, as it was one of the worst beatdown ever.

oBlade

United States5956 Posts

January 14 2011 13:11 GMT

#160

On January 14 2011 18:06 Sqq wrote:
For me he is the most dominant player of all time. When he played he went 5-0 in major tournament finals, he also did it in a shorter span than anyone. His periode of dominance is by far the best.

On January 14 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:
the thing is oov went from battle.net to osl winner just like that

everyone was like who the fuck is this guy and bam ... boxer cried ...

its like force and pressure ... oov might have a less significant force, but it was applied over a smaller area (i.e period of time) -> the pressure felt is greater ...

whereas every knows flash has been great all along and it comes to little surprised that he dominated the scene when there was literally only jaedong who had a shot at taking him down ... (bisu and stork slumped hard core) ... in short, flash was consistently good, and eventually became god while oov ate banana and bagged 5 golds ...

Between the Trigem MSL and EVER 2004 OSL, iloveoov won a league every season. This is over a period of about 14 months. During this time, he appeared in four finals and got four golds. He never made two finals (I say two instead of both/dual because back then there were some GhemTV leagues and other stuff) in one season.

On the other hand, between EVER 2009 and Korean Air S2, over a period of 12 months (this is important because it was 3 seasons, shorter than iloveoov's 4 seasons), Flash appeared in six finals. He appeared in *all* finals. He made dual finals three seasons in a row. In that shorter time he matched iloveoov's achievement of 4 golds and on top of that got two silvers.

While Flash got his 4 golds faster than iloveoov's 4 golds, iloveoov got his 5th gold quicker than Flash. He won Shinhan OSL over July about a year after EVER. But Flash won Bacchus like 1.6 years before his streak.

Don't forget back then Shinhan wasn't sponsoring the PL forever. Individual leagues still held more prestige. I can't really fit this into the analysis because it means that other players would be focused more on individual leagues, meaning iloveoov's lack of dual leaguing is more excusable. But it also means that you have to give another point to Flash for crushing the PL on top of 6 finals and WCG.