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Russian Federation327 Posts
Wow, most biased writeup ever.
It always amaze me how people cant understand that if Flash is so bad at skills then JD is even worse. You cant say one without another.
SC is strategy game, not micro game. And with all you complains about timing pushes, specially prepared builds and exploitation of mind game you imply that strategy is not part of strategy game. I mean What?
Flash is most round-around player, he doesn't posses superb micro but strong in all part of the game and have exceptional strategic play and map control. There are a lot of good mechanical players on current SC scene but a very few people with good strategic thinking. Thats why he can easily cover his weakness and exploit vulnerable points of other players.
You call Flash lucky but I feel otherwise. With some luck he should have won all finals in 3-0 fashion.
Don't write analytic if you can't be more-or-less objective, calm down first.
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I really hope some big changes in the meta-game where Terran is involved will appear now. Flash is just so good, the other races have to think about new things that might become standard to fight against him.
Particularly in PvT where Protoss is supposed to have more options.
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The scary thing is he's still so young. If he was older we might have the hope that he would start to lose some of his skills but I think he has about another three years of being at his peak to go.
I think it's going to take someone playing really special to beat him in a best of now and deny him another two titles in the next season.
JD is getting older so I don't think we can look to him to come back against Flash now. I get the feeling that he has already peaked as all players eventually do.
Effort has moments of absolute brilliance against Flash and seems to really raise his game when they play but overall he's too inconsistent to get into the finals most of the time.
I can't see any other current player having a chance of winning a best of against him at the moment- OK Fantasy I guess is capable if he brings his AAA+ game and gets lucky.
The only real hope IMO is some new younger player who we haven't even heard of rising up, but that would most likely take a few seasons of development.
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On September 14 2010 10:24 drewbie.root wrote:
YES HE IS
NO HE ISNT. flash is just in the prime of his career just like jaedong was 2-3years ago. he is mortal, he will age and he will slow down. unless progamers can innovate a new strat against him, we will just have to wait and see how jaedong will get even with flash.
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he isnt, but he IS the best starcraft player ever IMO, he havent won as much as Nada yet, but his play is the most skillfull ive ever seen
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Flash is heads and shoulders above everyone else in this day and age. He isn't invincible, but it's hard to conceive anyone beating him consistently if even JD can't run with him.
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I'm hoping this season a new protoss will emerge like bisu and completely destroy everybody in his path since we need another dominant protoss.
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I think Effort hinted in one of his interviews that there were ways to use Flash's game sense against him. The problem is that the players who could do this best, probably Effort, Stork, Leta, maybe Zero, are too far behind in some other areas to really beat him consistently.
I'm not sure what it was but something must have tipped off Flash in game 1 about the burrowed lings. If Jaedong could have created the exact same situation for Flash as in a normal game Flash probably would have moved out earlier to force sunkens, lost a group of MnM and would have been behind. In any case, I think the key is to negate Flash's game sense by understanding how he reaches his decisions and using that against him, while keeping up a high level of play otherwise.
edit:+ Show Spoiler + Effort on beating Flash in the Bigfile MSL Ro32
-Your mind game was exceptionally strong, and you seem to be unusually confident against the (T)Flash, who has 100 dan vision. (T/N: probably means flash sees all aka hax)
▲ Recently I tried alot of different freestyle strategies, and I discovered alot of pretty good plays. In one particular, it doesn't matter how good (T)Flash's vision is, if I could act well, I could definitely fool him. And since my acting skill is better than flash's vision, I'm very confident.
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edit: waaaa sorry double post.. slow internet connection >.<
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so therefore it JvF is like KiravLight in DeathNote? haha its as if you need to know what flash is thinking so you can destroy his gameplay, that is if he wouldnt read what you read about his play in the game. dang confusing X_X
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As long as his motivation and drive stays up he will continue to collect titles. He plays as close to a perfect terran as I've ever come across. And I really doubt we'll ever see similiar level of play in any other player.
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On September 14 2010 17:59 Yodo wrote:
Wow, most biased writeup ever.
It always amaze me how people cant understand that if Flash is so bad at skills then JD is even worse. You cant say one without another.
SC is strategy game, not micro game. And with all you complains about timing pushes, specially prepared builds and exploitation of mind game you imply that strategy is not part of strategy game. I mean What?
Flash is most round-around player, he doesn't posses superb micro but strong in all part of the game and have exceptional strategic play and map control. There are a lot of good mechanical players on current SC scene but a very few people with good strategic thinking. Thats why he can easily cover his weakness and exploit vulnerable points of other players.
You call Flash lucky but I feel otherwise. With some luck he should have won all finals in 3-0 fashion.
Don't write analytic if you can't be more-or-less objective, calm down first.
Yea I understand my viewpoints are basically what Flash did wrong. Why I did this was because Flash is undisputedly the best, and has received so much praise, I really don't need to give him more. I am offering some counter-evidence, pointing out what I personally think to be some weaknesses or overhype in the past games where people have just blindly declared him "better", when he has to utilize one-time-use builds to beat jaedong.
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On September 15 2010 00:00 [Azn]Nada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 17:59 Yodo wrote:
Wow, most biased writeup ever.
It always amaze me how people cant understand that if Flash is so bad at skills then JD is even worse. You cant say one without another.
SC is strategy game, not micro game. And with all you complains about timing pushes, specially prepared builds and exploitation of mind game you imply that strategy is not part of strategy game. I mean What?
Flash is most round-around player, he doesn't posses superb micro but strong in all part of the game and have exceptional strategic play and map control. There are a lot of good mechanical players on current SC scene but a very few people with good strategic thinking. Thats why he can easily cover his weakness and exploit vulnerable points of other players.
You call Flash lucky but I feel otherwise. With some luck he should have won all finals in 3-0 fashion.
Don't write analytic if you can't be more-or-less objective, calm down first. Yea I understand my viewpoints are basically what Flash did wrong. Why I did this was because Flash is undisputedly the best, and has received so much praise, I really don't need to give him more. I am offering some counter-evidence, pointing out what I personally think to be some weaknesses or overhype in the past games where people have just blindly declared him "better", when he has to utilize one-time-use builds to beat jaedong.
Uh, yeah... So Flash has defeated Jaedong in three consecutive Starleague finals and people who call Flash better are doing so "blindly".
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Flash was always one of the most talented boys out there, already at 15 a terran powerhouse. Besides that he resides at one of the two best training environments in starcraft ( those being KT and SKT obviously), with a very respectable coaching staff aiding him and his team. KT has been one of the most stable teams out there, has a good lineup in all races though their zergs have taken a hit lately, and has a very competitive and hardworking atmosphere. Flash is the indisputed ace of his team and aided by all these little factors has been growing at an astounding rate over the last few years.
Specifically for these season, Flash had to content with only one comparable rival, that being Jaedong. From the protoss side no danger would have to be expected. For some reason, Korea has never produced many talented protoss and beyond Garimto, Reach, Nal_Ra, Stork and Bisu no S-class tosses have come about. This year is one of the darkest for the protoss race ever, with the dragons losing their dominant position, with Bisu slumping and the other dragons not reaching their potential. Only Stork is still as competitive as before but does not have the peace and support that Flash can count on. Snow is the greatest talent for protoss but for various reasons is not quite there yet. Finally, the maps of the last year have been decidedly anti-protoss with only Polaris Rhapsody in recent memory to provide a protoss favoured haven.
The zerg has a lot more talent with Jaedong, Effort, Calm and Zero all S-class zergs. However, the maps of this season are mostly terran favoured, often heavily, and that makes it hard for the zergs to provide competition. Calm has been slumping while Zero still can't keep his choking under control, while Effort and Jaedong have had to content with team related troubles. Jaedong for yet another season has had to carry his team almost by himself, and this time Oz could not reach the playoffs, a big disappointment. Then, having his coach fired just before the OSL finals against Flash is terrible timing and puts Jaedong in a very disadvantageous position. For these reasons Flash's biggest rival couldn't muster his A-game and lost both finals were in previous situations the Dong had been able to go toe-to-toe with Flash.
Finally, besides Flash there are a couple of good terrans like Fantasy, Hiya, Light, Sea, and Leta that can give the Ultimate Weapon a run for his money. The problem however is that even if the skill level would be comparable, one should not forget that Flash strongest match-up actually is his tvt. The previous mentioned terrans all are stronger in different match-ups (Fanta and Hiya tvp, Light, Sea, and Leta tvz) while the other tvt specialists like Skyhigh, FBH, Upmagic, Baby or Mind are either slumping, retired, or too young. Fantasy lost in a close bo5 to Flash, while Light lost to Jaedong. At the moment Flash seems to be without terran rival, but that has more to do with Flash being a tvt specialist than anything else.
One can say that Flash is invincible. Given however, that the situation for his direct opponents worsens and for him further improves. If the next batch of maps will be protoss favoured (or even neutral!), if CJ Entus and Hwaseung Oz get their shit together, if Leta, Snow and Zero continue to grow and get even better, then Flash won't be that invincible anymore. Everything came out right for Flash last season, but it is unlikely that that will happen again. Even then, Flash had a spell of consecutive Ace losses in July that made him look not all that invincible after all...
Broodwar has seen a couple of "invincible" players in it's history. The four bonjwas obviously, Bisu and Jaedong more recently and now Flash. There have been periods without a dominant player, and periods with multiple. Now we've got an era were Flash is the strongest under the sky but I think it's obvious that even this period will come to an end, if it will not be prematurely shut off by the death of broodwar as a competitive sport.
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Arent the koreans calling him "God Young-Ho" now?
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Bisutopia19368 Posts
All I noticed was your a KT fan with a WeMadeFox Logo...
[Azn]Nada casted confusion.
Nada hurt himself in his own confusion.
ON a serious note, thanks for making a bunch of excuses for why JD could have played better. It really proved your point on how JD is a great player still and that without any mistakes JD could have won. I see it clearly now.... Grats on your first topic LOL.
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Flash is certainly the best right now, but I'll hold back on calling him a bonjwa until he wins a finals where 4/5 maps are heavily zerg favored over terran, and not one where 4/5 maps are heavily terran favored over zerg.
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Wow, a FlaSh fan with some brains! Cheers mate! It's obvious they're both bonjwas.
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On September 14 2010 23:23 hypercube wrote:
I think Effort hinted in one of his interviews that there were ways to use Flash's game sense against him.
Dude, this is what any higher level players are doing, not only progamers. using opponents game sense against themselves. Flash is just the best in this.
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On September 14 2010 23:23 hypercube wrote:
I'm not sure what it was but something must have tipped off Flash in game 1 about the burrowed lings. If Jaedong could have created the exact same situation for Flash as in a normal game Flash probably would have moved out earlier to force sunkens, lost a group of MnM and would have been behind.
I'm not sure wth you mean by "normal game" :O nothing from outside the booth tipped flash if that's what you mean. Any player would have known that it wasn't safe to move out before flash actually did.
Flash went 1rax CC and then +1. He scouted JD 3hatch play but I think he saw only four lings, then he saw the speed upgrade. Who upgrades speed for four lings? Flash didn't have shells ready so he couldn't move out when the mutas were already morphing. He is not stupid so he didn't move out becouse that group could have been killed with ling+muta even without burrow.
if you mean why he didnt move out before mutas, then the reason would be that he had way too few marines to both defend his base and to survive from ling flank.
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EPT
