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Usurper
Macedonia283 Posts
P.S. Nice response from KeSPA and the Proteams. With such an attitude, we can all forget seeing current great SC:BW progamers in SCII because they will identify the game as "the enemy" of their current existential situation. P.P.S. Blizzard, use your brains - not your economics/marketing team. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On September 07 2010 15:51 T0fuuu wrote: [...] PL, despite being a league that players and viewers dont really care abt. [...] I cant believe someone wrote this.. You, sir, are either insane, or blatantly lying to yourself, or were born with an intelligence that make earthworms look like Einsteins in comparison. Thousands of fans came to watch Proleague finals live, hundreds of thousands of them watch them through TV or Livestream. Players practiced for MONTHS for it, giving it priority over both MSL n OSL.. And here you are saying that players and viewers dont care about it.. I am hoping that you can provide a single shed of proof in the form of anyone (outside of insane ones like yourself) saying that they do not care of Proleague. GSL, being the new shiny thing needs to make a sound to be heard. its not gonna be heard if its put on at 10am or midnight. anyone can see this is a huge sign of disrespect to gsl and gom by the established scene. Considering gsl is also the current flagship of the sc2 scene it also is under huge pressure to succeed. I think you got it wrong.. GSL in fact can broadcast during prime time.. They just know that they dont stand a fighting chance as their ball-vs-ball-after-20-minute gameplay cant even begin to compare to Brood War in all of its glory. Thats why they are trying to kill off competition through this underhanded means rather than competing openly. As a viewer, i would have thought that you would prefer the freedom to choose, rather than being forced to watch SC2 just cos there is no PL to be watched. Lastly, i would like to mention the fact that GOM said they would like to do away with the current team format for e-Sports, and keep it to a everyman-for-himself tournament format. Other than some SC2 fans who are blinded by their shiny new toys, any other blind guy and his grandma can see that this is reverting e-Sport back to its infantile stage. Face it, even for top players, if one slump means no food and no shelter for the coming months (until you unslump), nobody is willing to devote all their time n effort to make a living out of this. And for lesser players who would nvr reach the top (read A-team standard but not S-class), theres no hope to make a living at all.. And if nobody makes a living out of it, its not a "sport". | ||
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DatTheMighty
Vietnam122 Posts
/end rage | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On September 07 2010 16:35 ffreakk wrote: I think you got it wrong.. GSL in fact can broadcast during prime time.. They just know that they dont stand a fighting chance as their ball-vs-ball-after-20-minute gameplay cant even begin to compare to Brood War in all of its glory. Thats why they are trying to kill off competition through this underhanded means rather than competing openly. As a viewer, i would have thought that you would prefer the freedom to choose, rather than being forced to watch SC2 just cos there is no PL to be watched. Brood War's main appeal is definitely the fan base formed around the players. It's not hard to find someone to claim that Brood War is just flat out a better game, but you'd be hard-pressed to find one of them for every two in the bush watching high level SC2. On September 07 2010 16:39 DatTheMighty wrote: Progamers dont give a rat ass about sc2. You might want to explain that to JulyZerg and Nada, they didn't get the memo. On September 07 2010 16:33 Usurper wrote: P.S. Nice response from KeSPA and the Proteams. With such an attitude, we can all forget seeing current great SC:BW progamers in SCII because they will identify the game as "the enemy" of their current existential situation. We should remember here that the people supporting this unified boycott are businessmen, the players are just the victims no matter which side you're watching from. There are plenty of players who would like to be able to play SC2, not to mention switch to it if it didn't jeopardize their livelihood. | ||
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Rokkysan
United States32 Posts
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DatTheMighty
Vietnam122 Posts
/tilt | ||
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JayDee_
548 Posts
On September 07 2010 14:33 Milkis wrote: You directly implied money was the issue. Hrm after reading the first post... No, no I didn't. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On September 07 2010 16:39 urashimakt wrote: Brood War's main appeal is definitely the fan base formed around the players. It's not hard to find someone to claim that Brood War is just flat out a better game, but you'd be hard-pressed to find one of them for every two in the bush watching high level SC2. I believe i have read many people claiming "i watch SC2 because im a new player and needed to learn the strategy, but i watch SC:BW because its just awesome to watch from a spectator PoV". So yes, even among SC2 viewers, there are in fact many that believe SC:BW is a better game. There are plenty of players who would like to be able to play SC2 Until you can quote someone saying that they want to switch to pro-SC2, i ll have to treat it as a baseless claim that u cook up. And no, NADA were allowed to train for SC2 for 10 days before the show match.. So up until Blizz/Gretech elevate the situation to this level, players werent "strictly forbidden" to play SC2 in their spare time/holidays. Regarding your response to sAAvior's post, i believe you are mistaking his point. What he is trying to say, is not whether changes are good, or bad, but whether companies should be allowed to force those changes on us viewers. If the new sport is better, it WILL get viewers, and more of them as time to come, since it is just better. You are arguing that GSL should be shown in the prime time slot since you are an SC2 fan, but you can always watch it im the Prime slot anyway, nobody stops you, and if there are many like you SC2 can grow. But forcing everyone else to follow suit even if they dont like it? I would like to recycle my analogy in another post of mine: If Blizz now make World of Starcraft and saying " We need all the current WoW servers for our new WoS, so WoW is no more.. So basically fk you and ur lvl 80 characters, and your hard-earned gears (accumulated after many months, even years), and honors, and achievements, and everything".. Will people still be saying these things like "the old must make space for the new", "its Blizzard's intellectual property, so they have rights"? I wonder.. | ||
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Novac
Denmark23 Posts
On September 07 2010 16:32 urashimakt wrote: We're talking about the company that takes 10 years to release sequels, I don't think we need to worry about them pushing product faster than we can take it. That is exactly what is happening. The eSports community surrounding SC:BW is clearly not dead but Activision/Blizzard is already very well engaged in "pushing product faster than we can take it". When talking eSports, SC:BW and SC2 are two very different things. It's like comparing soccer and handball. No one should be able to decide how their game is used. If they wanted full control over it, they should not have sold it to consumers. Instead of claiming IP rights, Activision/Blizzard should just have asked for compensation for continued support and patching of the game. If this was not about it being considered an eSport but rather someone had found a way to use the game to achieve world peace, then I bet you wouldn't want Activision/Blizzard to be able to pull the plug whenever they felt like it, simply because they wasn't happy with money they received for the 10 million copies they sold. | ||
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sAAvior
Poland248 Posts
Yes, change is a very scary thing. I can see here you're trying to sling anything you can to let us know how much you dislike SC2, but if there's one thing you shouldn't try to fault Blizzard on it is making a good game. The players don't need to put on 250 pounds and slow down, they need to learn the new terms of engagement to the degree that only 10 years of practice can bring. I am not afraid of new at all. I want normal free market competition though. In normal world it works like this: I promote my product, you promote yours and consumers decide which wins. If you try to promote your product by killing mine without asking consumers about their opinion it's not healthy situation. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On September 07 2010 17:00 Novac wrote: That is exactly what is happening. The eSports community surrounding SC:BW is clearly not dead but Activision/Blizzard is already very well engaged in "pushing product faster than we can take it". When talking eSports, SC:BW and SC2 are two very different things. It's like comparing soccer and handball. No one should be able to decide how their game is used. If they wanted full control over it, they should not have sold it to consumers. Instead of claiming IP rights, Activision/Blizzard should just have asked for compensation for continued support and patching of the game. If this was not about it being considered an eSport but rather someone had found a way to use the game to achieve world peace, then I bet you wouldn't want Activision/Blizzard to be able to pull the plug whenever they felt like it, simply because they wasn't happy with money they received for the 10 million copies they sold. Yes, it would be awful if that were how Blizzard works. Yes, it's scary to think that a company could try to shut down something we like. That's not what I commented on, though. I only said that Blizzard has never operated like that and there's no reason to think they would in the future. I did not try to refute anything else. On September 07 2010 17:06 sAAvior wrote: I am not afraid of new at all. I want normal free market competition though. In normal world it works like this: I promote my product, you promote yours and consumers decide which wins. If you try to promote your product by killing mine without asking consumers about their opinion it's not healthy situation. Well, yes. Most people in the U.S. like that market. I think the point of contention there would be whether or not "you" (not really you) can sell footage of someone else's product and then get angry when the person who paid for that right tells "you" to stop. It's not really "your" product, it's someone else's. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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DatTheMighty
Vietnam122 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On September 07 2010 16:55 ffreakk wrote: I believe i have read many people claiming "i watch SC2 because im a new player and needed to learn the strategy, but i watch SC:BW because its just awesome to watch from a spectator PoV". So yes, even among SC2 viewers, there are in fact many that believe SC:BW is a better game. Until you can quote someone saying that they want to switch to pro-SC2, i ll have to treat it as a baseless claim that u cook up. And no, NADA were allowed to train for SC2 for 10 days before the show match.. So up until Blizz/Gretech elevate the situation to this level, players werent "strictly forbidden" to play SC2 in their spare time/holidays. Regarding your response to sAAvior's post, i believe you are mistaking his point. What he is trying to say, is not whether changes are good, or bad, but whether companies should be allowed to force those changes on us viewers. If the new sport is better, it WILL get viewers, and more of them as time to come, since it is just better. You are arguing that GSL should be shown in the prime time slot since you are an SC2 fan, but you can always watch it im the Prime slot anyway, nobody stops you, and if there are many like you SC2 can grow. But forcing everyone else to follow suit even if they dont like it? I would like to recycle my analogy in another post of mine: If Blizz now make World of Starcraft and saying " We need all the current WoW servers for our new WoS, so WoW is no more.. So basically fk you and ur lvl 80 characters, and your hard-earned gears (accumulated after many months, even years), and honors, and achievements, and everything".. Will people still be saying these things like "the old must make space for the new", "its Blizzard's intellectual property, so they have rights"? I wonder.. I don't know how to respond to this. Basically, you start off responding to me saying "there are people who claim BW is better, and there are people who don't" by saying "many people who play SC2 feel BW is better". I was momentarily startled as though by an echo. Then you continue by framing me as an SC2 fan boy even though I thoroughly enjoy watching both games and proceed to put words in my mouth that never fit to begin with. I didn't say Nada prefers SC2, I said he has played it and apparently enjoyed it by his words with TLO following their showmatch. JulyZerg is a very prominent convert that you just glossed over because I guess that's what you did with most of what I said. I never "argued" that GSL should be in the prime time slot. I never wanted to force everyone else to follow suit. I see that you then finished off with an analogy that is completely out of place. Where exactly did you want to converse here? I'm really at a loss. To clarify: While it's very possible that players are blocked from playing SC2 now, I don't know where you got that they were blocked from playing previously. Seeing as how some of them already were playing SC2 in their spare time and Nada was requested to practice for the showmatch, not allowed. | ||
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_awake_
196 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
It could've been so huge. Blizzard shouldve given the game to OGN and MBC for free and within a matter of days, the whole country would've been sucked back in PC rooms playing the game with the same furious attitude they had when Starcraft was first released. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On September 07 2010 17:27 _awake_ wrote: You can think of it like Blizzard killing off BW (their child/parent) to claim their life insurance payout. Who would have thought they would have sunk so low? These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On September 07 2010 17:31 urashimakt wrote: These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways. Blizzard decided it could take the rights to broadcast BW away from the people who broadcast BW, and give it to a company of noobs (Gretech) who don't want BW to be broadcast at all. Yes, Blizzard fucked it up. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On September 07 2010 17:38 Severedevil wrote: Blizzard decided it could take the rights to broadcast BW away from the people who broadcast BW, and give it to a company of noobs (Gretech) who don't want BW to be broadcast at all. Yes, Blizzard fucked it up. The post I replied to was insinuating Blizzard was intentionally trying to kill BW, but your view on this parallel subject is appreciated. | ||
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