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On September 07 2010 17:31 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:27 _awake_ wrote:
You can think of it like Blizzard killing off BW (their child/parent) to claim their life insurance payout. Who would have thought they would have sunk so low? These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways.
you couldn't disprove that they arent either. in my eyes once they sold the rights to gretech, blizzard and gretech are on the same side. If everything went smoothly and broodwar survived i woulda been silent and content but i would be praising gretech AND BLIZZARD for showing leniency towards broodwar and esports. but its pretty fucking naive to think people who love esports wont hate blizzard for what is happening to broodwar right now between gretech and kespa. YOU REAP WHAT U SOW. Doesn't matter if the knife is in gretech's hand, blizzard fucking gave it to gretech wrapped in ribbons.
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When did Blizzard and Activision sided together? I didn't know blizzard have a partnership with some other company.
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On September 07 2010 17:43 DatTheMighty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:31 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 17:27 _awake_ wrote:
You can think of it like Blizzard killing off BW (their child/parent) to claim their life insurance payout. Who would have thought they would have sunk so low? These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways. you couldn't disapprove that they arent either. in my eyes once they sold the rights to gretech, blizzard and gretech are on the same side. If everything went smoothly and broodwar survived i woulda been silent and content but i would be praising gretech AND BLIZZARD for showing leniency towards broodwar and esports. but its pretty fucking naive to think people who love esports wont hate blizzard for what is happening to broodwar right now between gretech and kespa. YOU REAP WHAT U SOW. Doesn't matter if the knife is in gretech's hand, blizzard fucking gave it to gretech wrapped in ribbons.
I hate to quote philosophy textbooks, but "burden of proof" and all that mess. Man I'm so good at quoting.
On September 07 2010 17:46 stambe wrote:
When did Blizzard and Activision sided together? I didn't know blizzard have a partnership with some other company.
"On July 9, 2008, Activision officially merged with Vivendi Games, culminating in the inclusion of the Blizzard brand name in the title of the resulting holding company, though Blizzard Entertainment remains a separate entity with independent management."
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On September 07 2010 17:47 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:43 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 17:31 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 17:27 _awake_ wrote:
You can think of it like Blizzard killing off BW (their child/parent) to claim their life insurance payout. Who would have thought they would have sunk so low? These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways. you couldn't disapprove that they arent either. in my eyes once they sold the rights to gretech, blizzard and gretech are on the same side. If everything went smoothly and broodwar survived i woulda been silent and content but i would be praising gretech AND BLIZZARD for showing leniency towards broodwar and esports. but its pretty fucking naive to think people who love esports wont hate blizzard for what is happening to broodwar right now between gretech and kespa. YOU REAP WHAT U SOW. Doesn't matter if the knife is in gretech's hand, blizzard fucking gave it to gretech wrapped in ribbons. I hate to quote philosophy textbooks, but "burden of proof" and all that mess. Man I'm so good at quoting.
prolly gonna get ban for this
YOURE A FUCKING MORON TOO
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I don't know why people are defending Kespa. Seriously, they are the ones who are monopolistic and unionist trying to make sure to boycott GSL and other sc2 events. Here's a different example.
You write a book and you sell a lot of copies of it, but that's where it ends, but you find the book is really popular in some foreign country and they make a tv show out of it. Now you signed a contract with some person in the country a long time ago, but now you realize you have a huge fanbase there. Ok so now you write a sequal to the book and you tell the people in that country that you have a publisher who is responsible for publishing any derivatives of your work in that country. So what happens, the people on the TV show decide to boycott it because they want to keep the TV show alive. The author likes the TV show, but wants to make a new show based on the new book. She says "ok, you can have the tv show if you give me money and let me have the prime slots", the other group says "no, and we will stop your new show from being broadcasted or allowing any of our actors from participating in your show".
See it from this perspective? Blizzard owns the IP. They have a moral right to the game and its derivatives. Sure Kespa spent a lot of money on pro-gaming, but it's not like they didn't make any profit, they did. And now sc2 is a big threat to the monopoly kespa has on programing in korea. When companies are threatened they react awkwardly. The answer is though that kespa loses. They should have negotiated rights from gretech 7 years ago and made the deal permanent or at least have better communication. There is no reason that both leagues can't continue right now except that kespa refuses to acknowledge blizzard's IP. Like I said in a different thread, 3 things have to happen for PL to not die. 1. GSL gets all mon-fri primetime spots. leaving other leagues for sat/sun or latenights. 2. Kespa has to give gretech -> blizzard a significant portion of its revenue. Probably 20-30% or more. 3. Kespa has to agree to not force teams to not participate in sc2 tournaments and kespa has to not allow teams which pressure their players into not playing sc2.
Yes, kespa will not be same after the end of this season, but that's how things are. kespa can either get on board or be left behind.
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i'd boycott the book if the author wanted to burn the original book
blizzard is the one that needs to hop on or be left behind 
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On September 07 2010 17:56 _awake_ wrote:i'd boycott the book if the author wanted to burn the original book blizzard is the one that needs to hop on or be left behind
Wait....what. Are we supposed to boycott BW? I'm super confused.
Edit: Nevermind, I got it. Only took me a minute!
On September 07 2010 17:57 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:56 _awake_ wrote:i'd boycott the book if the author wanted to burn the original book blizzard is the one that needs to hop on or be left behind haha blizzard doesn't gain anything from destroying the pro-league, but they do lose potential players and fans. I'm sure they are weighing this decision to see if it's worth it to deal with kespa or not. Blizzard i'm sure really appreciates the scbw pro leagues, but they are angry that kespa thinks they own scbw in korea.
Again! Gretech's the one taking actions that are harming pro-league, whether that's their intent or they solely wish to protect GSL and it's an unfortunate byproduct. Blizzard hasn't been shown to have done anything besides possibly make a mistake in a business partner.
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On September 07 2010 17:56 _awake_ wrote:i'd boycott the book if the author wanted to burn the original book blizzard is the one that needs to hop on or be left behind
haha blizzard doesn't gain anything from destroying the pro-league, but they do lose potential players and fans. I'm sure they are weighing this decision to see if it's worth it to deal with kespa or not. Blizzard i'm sure really appreciates the scbw pro leagues, but they are angry that kespa thinks they own scbw in korea. If I write a book and you make it popular I still own the book.
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I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright.
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sc2 is in no way or shape a threat to esports/broodwar w.e u wanna call it. broodwar and esports are seperate. broodwar is just a game. esports is more than broodwar. If every progamer switched to sc2 we wouldn't even be raging so hard over nothing to be honest. Its the threat of blizzard and their ridiculous demands of control over esports that revolves around their game that is threatening to esports. To conform to blizzards standard for "esports" would be the death of esports itself. their model sucks they have no fuckign idea about esports. they're a game maker tryign to control their content which i understandable from their standpoint and perspective. But i am going to side with kespa because i am an ESports fan.
p.s. ur shitty mlg sc2 shit aint esports plz dont bring shit up about esports succeeding in the west
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Really, arent both sides just acting absolutely understandable from their own point of views?
Blizzard/Gretech doesnt get much from the BW scene currently. Either they want to keep the BW scene going and profit from it, and unless thats possible, they rather dont have any BW scene at all since it will probably make the SC2 scene grow larger when theres no competing BW scene around. So this is how they are maximizing their profit. And after all they're a business company, the LIVE off profit. The more profit the better. Can you really blame them for what they're doing?
And Kespa is in the same boat, though it might be more of a fight for survival over a fight for profit. But they dont get anything from SC2. They want to keep BW as big and popular for as long as possible, thats how they get the most profit. So they're stopping their players from participating in SC2 and trying to keep their league going even with lawsuit threats. Can you really blame them for what they're doing?
Somehow I think settling it in court might be the best thing really. Both parties are acting in the way they benefit most from it. Neither Blizzard nor Kespa have some kind of greater goal to please the community, they both want as much benefit as possible and they're acting accordingly. And taking it to court would finally determine who is right and who is wrong.
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On September 07 2010 15:48 Maul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 15:39 kiryah wrote:
If KeSpa vs Gretech really goes to court then KeSpa will win easily.
Business deals and court decisions are done a little differently in Korea. It's all about who you know and how much of a "fun night" you can give them. Back room negotiations and room salon parties will be the deciding factor for the court decision, and I think teams linked with the mega-corps in Korea are going to have more connections then one company such as GreTech. I wouldn't be surprised if Gretech doesn't even try to take it to court, knowing they have no chance. With your country displaying Italy and no sources or examples given, are you able to back any of this up?
I think it's obvious he knows something about Korean and Asian culture, people are very corrupt in countries like Korea and China. I've spent a few years here in China and the 'law' is not something follow here. When you look at Korea there is also a VERY long list of Koreans being corrupt to the point of no return, President being tossed in jail, Seoul olympics and starcraft match-fixing scandal. A funny thing is their ex-president is still held a hero by many, despite being what in a country as mine would be described as a corrupt thug.
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On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue Dat, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright.
Remember this is a business decision. I'm sure they are weighing the possible options.
Maybe
1. No PL, GSL only will produce X dollars profit.
2. contract for 20% revenue, produces Y dollars profit
3. Just let them be, produces Z dollars profit.
obviously #3 is out of the question since it doesn't profit gretech in any way. so it's between 1 and 2. Does blizzard think that they can win the battle of the wills and get progamers to jump on board with sc2 and fans as well, or do they think that they need to let the PL run for a few more seasons and if so, how much should they let it run.
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^ KeSPA is a non profit organisation. Any money they make is further invested into eSports.
I stand on KeSPA's side because if it sinks then it's very likely ProLeague will follow and i don't want that.
After all the KeSPA board members are mainly reps from the sponsors on ProTeams.
KeSPA has also contributed to legitimising Progaming as a some what stable career by establishing a system of teams which provide their players with salarys and such.
Naysayers should find out about how tough it was for even the Emperor Boxer in the dark pre-salary days when aspiring progamers had to live together in cramped apartments and scrung up money for equipment all the while living off cup ramen.
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On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright.
We can assume anything we like! Nothing wrong with that.
On September 07 2010 17:59 DatTheMighty wrote:
sc2 is in no way or shape a threat to esports/broodwar w.e u wanna call it. broodwar and esports are seperate. broodwar is just a game. esports is more than broodwar. If every progamer switched to sc2 we wouldn't even be raging so hard over nothing to be honest. Its the threat of blizzard and their ridiculous demands of control over esports that revolves around their game that is threatening to esports. To conform to blizzards standard for "esports" would be the death of esports itself. their model sucks they have no fuckign idea about esports. they're a game maker tryign to control their content which i understandable from their standpoint and perspective. But i am going to side with kespa because i am an ESports fan.
p.s. ur shitty mlg sc2 shit aint esports plz dont bring shit up about esports succeeding in the west
I'm not sure who you're arguing with because no one has said anything in support of Blizzard's failures or about MLG. You might just be bored I guess.
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pretty sure blizzard already made their decision when they sold the rights to gretech
1. blizzard wants maximum profit
2. maximum profit when SC2 takes over OGN/MBC channels during primetime
3. use their IP to try to force OGN/MBC to bend to their will
4. sold rights to gretech to act as their proxy
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On September 07 2010 18:05 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright. We can assume anything we like! Nothing wrong with that. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:59 DatTheMighty wrote:
sc2 is in no way or shape a threat to esports/broodwar w.e u wanna call it. broodwar and esports are seperate. broodwar is just a game. esports is more than broodwar. If every progamer switched to sc2 we wouldn't even be raging so hard over nothing to be honest. Its the threat of blizzard and their ridiculous demands of control over esports that revolves around their game that is threatening to esports. To conform to blizzards standard for "esports" would be the death of esports itself. their model sucks they have no fuckign idea about esports. they're a game maker tryign to control their content which i understandable from their standpoint and perspective. But i am going to side with kespa because i am an ESports fan.
p.s. ur shitty mlg sc2 shit aint esports plz dont bring shit up about esports succeeding in the west I'm not sure who you're arguing with because no one has said anything in support of Blizzard's failures or about MLG. You might just be bored I guess.
obviously i am not arguing against you so u dont need to be such a whiny defensive lil bitch. i am just telling all the people who thinks esports is shit like MLG which is like fucking mostly geared toward gaming nerds.
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On September 07 2010 18:07 _awake_ wrote:
pretty sure blizzard already made their decision when they sold the rights to gretech
1. blizzard wants maximum profit
2. maximum profit when SC2 takes over OGN/MBC channels during primetime
3. use their IP to try to force OGN/MBC to bend to their will
4. sold rights to gretech to act as their proxy
Profits are pretty much the business motivator, that's true. Bad press is pretty detrimental to it, though, most companies try to avoid making asses of themselves unless it really pays huge dividends.
On September 07 2010 18:08 DatTheMighty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:05 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright. We can assume anything we like! Nothing wrong with that. On September 07 2010 17:59 DatTheMighty wrote:
sc2 is in no way or shape a threat to esports/broodwar w.e u wanna call it. broodwar and esports are seperate. broodwar is just a game. esports is more than broodwar. If every progamer switched to sc2 we wouldn't even be raging so hard over nothing to be honest. Its the threat of blizzard and their ridiculous demands of control over esports that revolves around their game that is threatening to esports. To conform to blizzards standard for "esports" would be the death of esports itself. their model sucks they have no fuckign idea about esports. they're a game maker tryign to control their content which i understandable from their standpoint and perspective. But i am going to side with kespa because i am an ESports fan.
p.s. ur shitty mlg sc2 shit aint esports plz dont bring shit up about esports succeeding in the west I'm not sure who you're arguing with because no one has said anything in support of Blizzard's failures or about MLG. You might just be bored I guess. obviously i am not arguing against you so u dont need to be such a whiny defensive lil bitch. i am just telling all the people who thinks esports is shit like MLG which is like fucking mostly geared toward gaming nerds.
I was pretty certain you weren't, I'm just confused why you're on TL.net if your goal is to go into random threads and post irrelevant knee-jerk reactions that weren't prompted until an admin stumbles onto your trail.
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On September 07 2010 18:07 _awake_ wrote:
pretty sure blizzard already made their decision when they sold the rights to gretech
1. blizzard wants maximum profit
2. maximum profit when SC2 takes over OGN/MBC channels during primetime
3. use their IP to try to force OGN/MBC to bend to their will
4. sold rights to gretech to act as their proxy
Lol i wonder if blizzard can buy those channels. I bet they are pretty cheap.
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On September 07 2010 18:02 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue Dat, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright. Remember this is a business decision. I'm sure they are weighing the possible options. Maybe 1. No PL, GSL only will produce X dollars profit. 2. contract for 20% revenue, produces Y dollars profit 3. Just let them be, produces Z dollars profit. obviously #3 is out of the question since it doesn't profit gretech in any way. so it's between 1 and 2. Does blizzard think that they can win the battle of the wills and get progamers to jump on board with sc2 and fans as well, or do they think that they need to let the PL run for a few more seasons and if so, how much should they let it run.
I understand it's a business decision, I think that's probably part of the issue too. If Blizzard wasn't so entranced by wanting to make a buck from BW, I don't think there demands for Kespa would have been so harsh. While I realize Kespa has some blame to bare on all of this, as they didn't make it easier, Blizzard/Gretech is more at fault now. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, as I have always seen both Gretech/Blizzard and Kespa all to bare blame on this.
I really do want to hear Blizzard's side of the story, I can really careless of Gretech, as they are generally blockheads for trying to strong arm Kespa into giving up. if you can convince so many big companies and sponsors to simply give in and lose that much then someone needs to give them a gold medal.
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EPT
