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On September 07 2010 18:11 Seraphic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:02 darmousseh wrote:On September 07 2010 17:58 Seraphic wrote:
I think I should probably try to point out that if Blizzard is truly not part of this whole Gretech and Kespa/Proteams issue Dat, then why haven't Blizzard try to just settle this issue by simply stepping in?
You can assume because they haven't basically said a single word that, they are agreeing with Gretech on this issue, or at least support them. Simply, if they aren't, and Blizzard is letting this completely fall apart, then they are outright negligent and stupid for not doing, OR saying anything at this point.
I'm still damn curious on what Blizzard themselves think of all of this, they stay silent much longer, we can all just assume that they are basically supporting Gretech and what they want to do with BW, which is basically push the game aside outright. Remember this is a business decision. I'm sure they are weighing the possible options. Maybe 1. No PL, GSL only will produce X dollars profit. 2. contract for 20% revenue, produces Y dollars profit 3. Just let them be, produces Z dollars profit. obviously #3 is out of the question since it doesn't profit gretech in any way. so it's between 1 and 2. Does blizzard think that they can win the battle of the wills and get progamers to jump on board with sc2 and fans as well, or do they think that they need to let the PL run for a few more seasons and if so, how much should they let it run. I understand it's a business decision, I think that's probably part of the issue too. If Blizzard wasn't so entranced by wanting to make a buck from BW, I don't think there demands for Kespa would have been so harsh. While I realize Kespa has some blame to bare on all of this, as they didn't make it easier, Blizzard/Gretech is more at fault now. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, as I have always seen both Gretech/Blizzard and Kespa all to bare blame on this. I really do want to hear Blizzard's side of the story, I can really careless of Gretech, as they are generally blockheads for trying to strong arm Kespa into giving up. if you can convince so many big companies and sponsors to simply give in and lose that much then someone needs to give them a gold medal.
Part of me thinks it's payback for forcing progamers not to play in past gom tournaments or in gsl.
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if this is payback lol, it's probably the most overkill payback I have seen in years.
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On September 07 2010 17:48 DatTheMighty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 17:47 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 17:43 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 17:31 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 17:27 _awake_ wrote:
You can think of it like Blizzard killing off BW (their child/parent) to claim their life insurance payout. Who would have thought they would have sunk so low? These threads seem to cause more misinformation than they clean up. Blizzard isn't even a part of this post. It's a clarification on what's going on between Gretech and KeSPA/the proteams. Saying that Blizzard is controlling Gretech's actions is pretty baseless, anyways. you couldn't disapprove that they arent either. in my eyes once they sold the rights to gretech, blizzard and gretech are on the same side. If everything went smoothly and broodwar survived i woulda been silent and content but i would be praising gretech AND BLIZZARD for showing leniency towards broodwar and esports. but its pretty fucking naive to think people who love esports wont hate blizzard for what is happening to broodwar right now between gretech and kespa. YOU REAP WHAT U SOW. Doesn't matter if the knife is in gretech's hand, blizzard fucking gave it to gretech wrapped in ribbons. I hate to quote philosophy textbooks, but "burden of proof" and all that mess. Man I'm so good at quoting. prolly gonna get ban for this YOURE A FUCKING MORON TOO
Dude, there is absolutely no need to flame, best to keep things in a nice tone.
I think the mods made this topic, in order to lessen the flaming and arguing.
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I don't think blizzard is trying to make a buck out of a 12 year old game. they are trying to protect their game because it has their logo on it. they dont want it associated with an organization like kespa which has a bad track record to be honest, without having control over what kespa can and cant do. People assocate things, they see kespa ass fucking their players in the ass with broodwar in the background and they think blizzard is in the action too, therefore a dirty company too. blizzard makes alot of fucking money regardless esports die or live, but its image has a far wider reaching effects. Not only in korea but all over the world because esports does have coverage in the west on news channels from time to time. And i doubt the evil boss at activision really gives a fuck about esports monetary wise. its like a fucking drop of water in the ocean compares to what activision makes. fucking 1.6 billion in sales dollar just from cod:mw2 and with part 3 coming activision is rich no matter what. But they more prestige u are the more u care about ur image. its like a small red stain on ur fuckign expensive white suit. it stix out like a sore thumb.
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Thanks Milkis for summarizing the situation.
- Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
This is how Blizzard tries to promote eSports in Korea. Destroying the Korean eSports. Awesome strategy.
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
KeSPA are ballers. Since it's composed of representative from the biggest korean companies, a lawsuit would be probably heavily biased in their favor :D Unless it's not a korean court, but it should be.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Where can I send my donations to this association ?
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
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On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P
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On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P
lmao gtfo of our tree
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On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:Thanks Milkis for summarizing the situation. Show nested quote +- Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
This is how Blizzard tries to promote eSports in Korea. Destroying the Korean eSports. Awesome strategy. Show nested quote +
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
KeSPA are ballers. Since it's composed of representative from the biggest korean companies, a lawsuit would be probably heavily biased in their favor :D Unless it's not a korean court, but it should be. Show nested quote +
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Where can I send my donations to this association ? It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
I'm 100% certain blizzard will win any IP battle in korea. Korea has to abide by IP laws it agreed to. Also the networks aren't stupid. They don't want to be liable in a lawsuit. I enjoy the pro-league, but Kespa is really insane if they believe they can continue without gretech's blessing.
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On September 07 2010 18:28 DatTheMighty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P lmao gtfo of our tree
Thank you. I didn't know how to reply to him, you handled it perfectly.
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On September 07 2010 18:30 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:28 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P lmao gtfo of our tree Thank you. I didn't know how to reply to him, you handled it perfectly.
I didn't mean to offend you, I've enjoyed Starcraft for way longer than any of the more recent games. But siding with the ban happy troll? That's a little vindictive.
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On September 07 2010 18:32 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:30 endy wrote:On September 07 2010 18:28 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P lmao gtfo of our tree Thank you. I didn't know how to reply to him, you handled it perfectly. I didn't mean to offend you, I've enjoyed Starcraft for way longer than any of the more recent games. But siding with the ban happy troll? That's a little vindictive.
no hes not siding with me, hes just siding with the statement, ur mentioning wow and halo in this forum and on this website in this argument is an obvious troll, anything u said and will say had just loss its credibility. double gtfo!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 07 2010 18:35 DatTheMighty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:32 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:30 endy wrote:On September 07 2010 18:28 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P lmao gtfo of our tree Thank you. I didn't know how to reply to him, you handled it perfectly. I didn't mean to offend you, I've enjoyed Starcraft for way longer than any of the more recent games. But siding with the ban happy troll? That's a little vindictive. no hes not siding with me, hes just siding with the statement, ur mentioning wow and halo in this forum and on this website in this argument is an obvious troll, anything u said and will say had just loss its credibility. double gtfo!
I'm done helping you derail the thread. I'm ashamed for having gone this far.
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On September 07 2010 18:29 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:Thanks Milkis for summarizing the situation. - Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
This is how Blizzard tries to promote eSports in Korea. Destroying the Korean eSports. Awesome strategy.
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
KeSPA are ballers. Since it's composed of representative from the biggest korean companies, a lawsuit would be probably heavily biased in their favor :D Unless it's not a korean court, but it should be.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Where can I send my donations to this association ? It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree. I'm 100% certain blizzard will win any IP battle in korea. Korea has to abide by IP laws it agreed to. Also the networks aren't stupid. They don't want to be liable in a lawsuit. I enjoy the pro-league, but Kespa is really insane if they believe they can continue without gretech's blessing.
I think that if Blizzard was 100% sure to win a lawsuit, and after they started complaining about IP rights in 2007, they would have already sued KeSPA for a long time, probably after the first failed negociation. But they didn't. If the whole story was taking place in the US, it would have sued them instantly. Just look at Activision's lawsuits record. It's incredible.
On September 07 2010 18:32 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:30 endy wrote:On September 07 2010 18:28 DatTheMighty wrote:On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P lmao gtfo of our tree Thank you. I didn't know how to reply to him, you handled it perfectly. I didn't mean to offend you, I've enjoyed Starcraft for way longer than any of the more recent games. But siding with the ban happy troll? That's a little vindictive.
First, what the hell are Halo and WoW doing on this topic. It was totally unrelevant. We are talking serious business about endangered Proleague and you ...
Second, my sentence was a reference to the match fixing scandal 'After Talk'. Many people on TL know what I am refering to. I you don't, you should have a look to the korean TV show I mentioned above. TL subs team made a great job, profit.
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double post, missclick. sorry.
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On September 07 2010 18:40 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:29 darmousseh wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:Thanks Milkis for summarizing the situation. - Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
This is how Blizzard tries to promote eSports in Korea. Destroying the Korean eSports. Awesome strategy.
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
KeSPA are ballers. Since it's composed of representative from the biggest korean companies, a lawsuit would be probably heavily biased in their favor :D Unless it's not a korean court, but it should be.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Where can I send my donations to this association ? It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree. I'm 100% certain blizzard will win any IP battle in korea. Korea has to abide by IP laws it agreed to. Also the networks aren't stupid. They don't want to be liable in a lawsuit. I enjoy the pro-league, but Kespa is really insane if they believe they can continue without gretech's blessing. I think that if Blizzard was 100% sure to win a lawsuit, and after they started complaining about IP rights in 2007, they would have already sued KeSPA for a long time, probably after the first failed negociation. But they didn't. If the whole story was taking place in the US, it would have sued them instantly. Just look at Activision's lawsuits record. It's incredible.
Yes, but Activision's lawsuit record is in the States mainly. I think we need to keep in mind that this is in Korea. While B-A (or Gretech) has a stronger stance in general if they take it to court, Kespa has the backing of the sponsors. If Blizzard/Gretech continues to alienate the sponsors any futher, just think, would they even WANT to bother sponsoring SC2 when Blizzard/Gretech simply strong armed them and SC:BW away?
I sure as hell won't. Why would I want to support that?
What I mean by this is Proleague is what the sponsors want, and where the main problem comes from. Blizzard/Gretech winning in the courts wouldn't mean they would automatically get the sponsors from BW to switch over to SC2. (Although the possibility of it would obviously depend on the sponsors themselves.) And of course, if they (Korea) lets Blizzard basically BOSS them around from across the seas, you are already giving way too much control to Blizzard. Gretech might be the one's talking, doing the problems, but Blizzard has said nil in regards to all of the issues besides them wanting absolute control of everything.
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On September 07 2010 18:27 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:
It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree.
Well, maybe the root that it grew from but I don't think branches like Halo and WoW care what we think. :-P
Excuse my ignorance but please enlighten me as to what Halo and WoW have to do with e-Sports.. As far as i know, those were mere games, e-Sport on the other hand is a completely different concept.
Edit: I would like to also mention that it is nearly impossible to argue that Blizzard does not know of all these negotiations going on. And if they know and said nothing, i dont see it as any different from Blizzard directly do all these.
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id love to hear players interviews about this....
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On September 07 2010 18:50 Seraphic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 18:40 endy wrote:On September 07 2010 18:29 darmousseh wrote:On September 07 2010 18:23 endy wrote:Thanks Milkis for summarizing the situation. - Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
This is how Blizzard tries to promote eSports in Korea. Destroying the Korean eSports. Awesome strategy.
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
KeSPA are ballers. Since it's composed of representative from the biggest korean companies, a lawsuit would be probably heavily biased in their favor :D Unless it's not a korean court, but it should be.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Where can I send my donations to this association ? It's time to show how we, Proleague fans, are the root of the unshakable eSports tree. I'm 100% certain blizzard will win any IP battle in korea. Korea has to abide by IP laws it agreed to. Also the networks aren't stupid. They don't want to be liable in a lawsuit. I enjoy the pro-league, but Kespa is really insane if they believe they can continue without gretech's blessing. I think that if Blizzard was 100% sure to win a lawsuit, and after they started complaining about IP rights in 2007, they would have already sued KeSPA for a long time, probably after the first failed negociation. But they didn't. If the whole story was taking place in the US, it would have sued them instantly. Just look at Activision's lawsuits record. It's incredible. Yes, but Activision's lawsuit record is in the States mainly. I think we need to keep in mind that this is in Korea. While B-A (or Gretech) has a stronger stance in general if they take it to court, Kespa has the backing of the sponsors. If Blizzard/Gretech continues to alienate the sponsors any futher, just think, would they even WANT to bother sponsoring SC2 when Blizzard/Gretech simply strong armed them and SC:BW away? I sure as hell won't. Why would I want to support that?
That was almost exactly my point actually, we are in Korea, not in US. But it's not only about the sponsors. I think that millions of koreans will be pissed at Blizzard for destroying the current BW scene. It's all about the fans. As long as there will be BW fans, huge korean companies like STX, KT, SKT, Korean Air, CJ will keep sponsoring.
I've already said that earlier in the thread, but basically, Blizzard's strategy to promote eSports in Korea, is destroying the current eSports structure which was made by koreans with great effort. I don't think koreans are going to welcome Blizzard.
If the players line up with KeSPA, they can have a big impact on the fans. Imagine Boxer making a short public speach saying that what Blizzard is doing is unacceptable and destroying a part of the korean heritage....
edit : Just saw your edit. I understand better what you initially meant. I agree.
hard to have debate with edits ^_^
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How I think it will go is:
Kespa loses in court so no more pro-league.
In the beginning everyone is against the sc2-league (all pro-teams) but after a while (a few months) the pro's will have to choose between playing sc2 or doing something else. First a few will step over, after a while more and more. In the end they will have to choose between sc2 and what will be there other choice maybe wc3 I don't know.
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hehe  thought of it after I typed it in. ^_^
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EPT
