|
Basically here we have the devil we know (KeSPA), the devil we don't know (Gretech et al), and the devil we thought was an angel (Activision-Blizzard).
And they're all playing strong-arm/bluff tactics.
On IP grounds, A-B/Gretech have the legal standing. On the basis of actual practice (what you might think of as "common law" grounds), KeSPA holds all the cards.
From my POV, MBC, KeSPA, etc. are perfectly justified in considering Blizzard's demands re. BW to be ridiculous, too much, etc. since Blizzard's essentially ignored the proscene 1999-2007, and didn't push that hard even after 2007. (The argument: silence implies consent.)
If KeSPA/MBC/whoever was declaring rights to broadcast/manage SC2 leagues, that's completely different, since Blizzard's been very clear from the beginning that SC2 esports were going to be overseen by Blizz itself. But I don't think this is what KeSPA is saying.
|
after fully reading that article where Kespa explained there side of the story, I'm...extremely curious on if Blizzard/Gretech would ever try to explain themselves. The more silent they stay on this to the fans, the more it'll look like there the enemies on all of this. Or at least the more evil between the two.
|
Better the devil we know than the ones who clearly doesn't give two shits about fans of BW.
|
On September 07 2010 14:34 So no fek wrote:
Seriously, this entire thing is one giant clusterfuck.
When Kespa pretty much killed GOM, I was really sad, and pissed at Kespa. I was even hoping that GOM would manage to make a comeback and still keep their tournament alive somehow. I was even slightly hopeful when Gretech was given the right to sort everything out. Kespa has screwed up a lot of shit over the years, but I don't deny that they're probably at least somewhat beneficial to ESPORTS in the long run. I hoped that they would work something out, and everyone would be happy; Blizzard would get some money from Kespa continuing to broadcast BW, and GOM would do their own thing with SC2. Instead, Gretech/Blizzard are being a bunch of dicks and trying to kill the only game I love.
e-Sports wouldn't exist without KeSPA. Who would sponsor BW if there wasn't a governing body for it?
|
On September 07 2010 14:38 ohN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 14:27 xBillehx wrote:
From what I understand with this summary, both BW and SC2 would have been able to air freely with permission and cooperation if KeSPA had just accepted the timeslot move (since BW is the older game) and threw in some GSL commercials. Both the BW fans and SC2 fans would have been happy freely able to watch their respective entertainment (and possibly both) without all this drama.
Obviously KeSPA wouldn't be happy taking the backseat and I'm sure the proteams wouldn't be happy with it either, since they've been the source of fantastic Starcraft entertainment for years. However, a new potential esport game came along and if the primary concern was for the growth of esports as a whole, wouldn't embracing that new potential be a goal?
Instead, no one wanted to budge and now we have "boycotting" (Did KeSPA ever intend on touching the Starcraft 2 market anyway?) and angry fans.
Of course, that ideal situation of both leagues operating together is probably never going to happen now, but really- the possibility for it to all work out was there and just passed right over.
Heres to hoping for as little damage to both BW and SC2 professional scenes as possible. Well why does Kespa have to give up their timeslot? They've had it for years and there's plenty of people who enjoy bw. Shouldn't the NEW game air at a different time and try to EARN that primetime slot by showing it could be more popular? I'd say gretech's at fault here.
Because Gretch owns the rights to both BW + SC2. And Proleague on a different day is better than no proleague at all. Honestly I feel that Gretch are asking for a lot, but KESPA are just fucking stubborn and greedy too. They don't want to give up the prime slot because of advertising money. If they truly were doing it for the sake of e-sports and all that they would have backed down. In fact, what they should have done was to buy the rights from blizzard in the first place, and not let Gretch get them. Again they didn't do that because of greed and their hatred of blizzard, nothing to do with saving e-sports. Now it will go to court and he only people that will really benefit from all this will be the lawyers.
Both sides are at fault imo.
|
I cheer for whatever side will give us Proleague. There seems to be a lot of people anti-KeSPa or anti-Blizzard/Gretech for what they did in the past. Both companies seem really freakin greedy though, so I can't see it being a win-win situation =/.
I can't see Gretech's model of doing things being good for esports in the long run, I don't think it'll induce as many fans or reasons for companies to be sponsoring players.
Are the monday/tuesday slots really that prime? As in, are they actually prime or are they called prime because both companies want it?
The other thing is that I hope it doesn't get so ugly that people just stop caring for either entirely....
|
From the looks of it, it's KeSPA that's sealing ProLeague's fate into its grave because of their stubborn attitude. They need to just shut up and concede that they're fighting a losing battle and that they need swallow their pride and accept that the ProLeague isn't going to get the "Hero" role in E-Sports anymore.
At the same time, the negative aspects of "intellectual property rights" that are biting the consumer in the ass are showing up really badly here. I can accept a request for the old to make way for the new and the old to be pushed to a different time slot, but in the case where KeSPA wants to compete directly...to demand payment for "lost profits" on viewers who would watch classic Brood War instead is disgusting business practice. Instead of "demanding payment" Gretech needs to get off their lazy asses and make the tournament more exciting and have better quality that will attract more customers over from the Brood War side.
|
Blizzard has been extremely greedy since WoW became their flagship project, it's not because of activision.
Also blizzard is not some innocent party here, gretech is basically just their korean proxy, do you honestly think blizzard would have given gretech complete power over what to do with SC2 and BW in korea? No, gretech is just executing what blizzard wishes them to.
I'm still baffled how some people can think blizzard is some innocent company in all this and that gretech is just warping all the sc licensing rights on their own.
|
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On September 07 2010 13:05 Milkis wrote:
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
I'm glad to read that.
|
On September 07 2010 14:59 Magic84 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 13:05 Milkis wrote:
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
I'm glad to read that.
Yeah me too, hope it works out well for them and that Gretech and Blizzard find themselves royally fucked. Maybe if that happens, Blizzard will come back to the table to discuss bringing sc2 to korea under favorable terms and not to try to muscle out the current structure.
|
How can people complain that the companies are only interested in the money? Everything on the pro-scene is about money, hence where the term pro-gamer comes from. A professional gamer is someone who plays games for a living, and by living it means money. That means the players need to earn enough money to focus solely on the game, to get that money they need sponsors, sponsors need viewers, to get viewers you need infrastructure and marketing, for that you need employees and equipment, etc etc Of course these companies are after money because firstly that is what a business is about and secondly it is simply required to bring the games to your computer screen.
Also, how long can KeSPA hold onto their teams if they have no broadcasting rights and get sued for broadcasting illegally? When some of the higher profile players contracts expire, are they going to resign or make the jump to SC2? Either way, if we do lose some of the stars of BW to SC2, it will be sad but ultimately new stars will be born.
Saying all that, having players have to fight over huge top tier prizes and much smaller lower tier ones will definitely not help SC2 as an e-sport moving forward. But also, can anyone blame Gretech's hostility towards KeSPA after they've screwed them over in the past?
|
If KeSpa vs Gretech really goes to court then KeSpa will win easily.
Business deals and court decisions are done a little differently in Korea. It's all about who you know and how much of a "fun night" you can give them. Back room negotiations and room salon parties will be the deciding factor for the court decision, and I think teams linked with the mega-corps in Korea are going to have more connections then one company such as GreTech. I wouldn't be surprised if Gretech doesn't even try to take it to court, knowing they have no chance.
|
On September 07 2010 15:39 kiryah wrote:
If KeSpa vs Gretech really goes to court then KeSpa will win easily.
Business deals and court decisions are done a little differently in Korea. It's all about who you know and how much of a "fun night" you can give them. Back room negotiations and room salon parties will be the deciding factor for the court decision, and I think teams linked with the mega-corps in Korea are going to have more connections then one company such as GreTech. I wouldn't be surprised if Gretech doesn't even try to take it to court, knowing they have no chance.
With your country displaying Italy and no sources or examples given, are you able to back any of this up?
|
That was a pretty dirty move on Gretech's part. I really hope everything backfires in their faces.
|
can someone correct me on what the fuck blizzard has anything to do with this current situation? its just kespa's control of the bw scene vs goms.
its like the blind leaving the fucking blind in all the threads and disinfomation is spread virally. ppl saying blizzard are init for the $$$ fuck kotick etc should just be banned cos they obv cant be bothered keeping up with the topic. if anyone can prove beyond reasonable doubt that blizzard, and in particular activision are actively participating in these negotiations then i will shut my mouth but its fucking obvious that its gom making the decisions on how to negotiate with kespa and uses blizzard as a supporting leg to argue their case on. do you really think activision is bothered abt potential money when they could be screwing their current game developers out of bonus money or pumping official sequels from studios unrelated to the original game?
the negotiations got to the stage where gom doesnt give a flying shit abt monetary reimbursement provided they can get their program onto OGN or MBC at a primetime slot and not the 12am shift they had been offered previously.
PL, despite being a league that players and viewers dont really care abt. (no, some bs from postmatch interviews will not dissuade me, its your job to support ur team and sponsor and say absolutely nothing fruitful in an interview) is really the backbone of modern bw in how the teams can sell to sponsors A TEAM instead of A PLAYER. This lets proteams get away with large benches but it also gives room for the old dogs of the team with only 1 trick or are past their prime. That is pretty rare in a competitive environment and its one of the only positives that kespa brings to the scene. stability.
GSL, being the new shiny thing needs to make a sound to be heard. its not gonna be heard if its put on at 10am or midnight. anyone can see this is a huge sign of disrespect to gsl and gom by the established scene. Considering gsl is also the current flagship of the sc2 scene it also is under huge pressure to succeed.
so gom mean it when they say proleague has no value to them if it is the perceived thing blocking them from primetime. (which its not, if its not pl im sure it will run into something else) the refusal to negotiate around pl resulted in a deadlock. i am not convinced that proleague deserves the big spotlight all the time and neither am i convinced gsl is at the standard where it would be received well in the spotlight.
imo they should just strike a compromise with kesp and give them pl, but in exchange secure the ro16 onwards of GSL on somewhere close to primetime. if they fucking sync it properly gsl will only take priority over pl a few days a month.however if ogn do it they will be jealous of the other company, mbc who dont need to, and it just adds another layer of complexity. and becomes even more complex if the channels want to do their own sc2 leagues.
|
On September 07 2010 15:51 T0fuuu wrote:
[...] PL, despite being a league that players and viewers dont really care abt. [...]
Stopped reading here. Do you realize how completely, utterly wrong that statement is?
|
On September 07 2010 15:51 T0fuuu wrote:
can someone correct me on what the fuck blizzard has anything to do with this current situation? its just kespa's control of the bw scene vs goms.
its like the blind leaving the fucking blind in all the threads and disinfomation is spread virally. ppl saying blizzard are init for the $$$ fuck kotick etc should just be banned cos they obv cant be bothered keeping up with the topic. if anyone can prove beyond reasonable doubt that blizzard, and in particular activision are actively participating in these negotiations then i will shut my mouth but its fucking obvious that its gom making the decisions on how to negotiate with kespa and uses blizzard as a supporting leg to argue their case on. do you really think activision is bothered abt potential money when they could be screwing their current game developers out of bonus money or pumping official sequels from studios unrelated to the original game?
the negotiations got to the stage where gom doesnt give a flying shit abt monetary reimbursement provided they can get their program onto OGN or MBC at a primetime slot and not the 12am shift they had been offered previously.
PL, despite being a league that players and viewers dont really care abt. (no, some bs from postmatch interviews will not dissuade me, its your job to support ur team and sponsor and say absolutely nothing fruitful in an interview) is really the backbone of modern bw in how the teams can sell to sponsors A TEAM instead of A PLAYER. This lets proteams get away with large benches but it also gives room for the old dogs of the team with only 1 trick or are past their prime. That is pretty rare in a competitive environment and its one of the only positives that kespa brings to the scene. stability.
GSL, being the new shiny thing needs to make a sound to be heard. its not gonna be heard if its put on at 10am or midnight. anyone can see this is a huge sign of disrespect to gsl and gom by the established scene. Considering gsl is also the current flagship of the sc2 scene it also is under huge pressure to succeed.
so gom mean it when they say proleague has no value to them if it is the perceived thing blocking them from primetime. (which its not, if its not pl im sure it will run into something else) the refusal to negotiate around pl resulted in a deadlock. i am not convinced that proleague deserves the big spotlight all the time and neither am i convinced gsl is at the standard where it would be received well in the spotlight.
imo they should just strike a compromise with kesp and give them pl, but in exchange secure the ro16 onwards of GSL on somewhere close to primetime. if they fucking sync it properly gsl will only take priority over pl a few days a month.however if ogn do it they will be jealous of the other company, mbc who dont need to, and it just adds another layer of complexity. and becomes even more complex if the channels want to do their own sc2 leagues.
You sir, are a fuckign moron. thats all i have to say.
actually i had alot more but fucking i quoted and it fucked me over. basicly the gist of what i was just pure rage on how someone can possible think OGN AND MBC should push their primetime slots so SC2 wouldn't have competition over viewship. that statement is just so fuckign rediculous. I am gonna rage sleep tonight.
|
Imagine that some kind of billionaire decides to kill competitive tennis by introducing "tennis for fat people" the game is like normal tennis but with bigger, slower balls and only could be played by people who are 250+lbs. Billionaire is rich and sponsors tournaments with 5x prizes of grand slams and other tournaments. He also buys tv networks and make them not broadcast "old" tennis.
The players have no choice but to switch to new game and become fat because it's where the money is.
Viewers as much as they hate the situation has to watch tennis for fat people because there is no regular high level tennis anymore as all the money are in new game.
This is exactly what Blizzard tries to force over us. When the smoke is cleared and Blizzard stops pouring money into sc2 tourneys we will be left with dead scene and dead old game which was so great to watch and had so many fans.
This is not how free market works and this is not how you promote new stuff. I honestly hope more communities will join this "antiblizzard" thing KeSPA and pro teams forms. People should see that current EULA and Blizzard policy makes it impossible for this game to be esport success.
Go to hell blizzard and don't ruin my favourite entertainment.
|
I respect that Blizzard should get some sort of compensation for their game, although the increase in sales from it being on TV I would think would be enough.
However, it seems obvious to me that eSports will never really thrive if a game company can claim Intellectual Property rights without limitation. This means that any game company will be able to just not sell the broadcasting rights whenever they feel like it. Like for instance if they had a sequel to the game coming out and wanted people to switch to the new game by killing the old.
I'm not saying that this is exactly the motivation behind what Activision/Blizzard is doing here, but it very well could be.
I like both SC:BW and SC2 but to be fair, SC:BW is an established eSport and if SC2 has potential to become an eSport as well, then it should be able to do so on it's own and not by forcing the best TV time slots.
KeSPA might have done some pretty lame things in the past, but they really need to win the coming lawsuit for the good of all eSports.
|
On September 07 2010 16:23 sAAvior wrote:
Imagine that some kind of billionaire decides to kill competitive tennis by introducing "tennis for fat people" the game is like normal tennis but with bigger, slower balls and only could be played by people who are 250+lbs. Billionaire is rich and sponsors tournaments with 5x prizes of grand slams and other tournaments. He also buys tv networks and make them not broadcast "old" tennis.
The players have no choice but to switch to new game and become fat because it's where the money is.
Viewers as much as they hate the situation has to watch tennis for fat people because there is no regular high level tennis anymore as all the money are in new game.
This is exactly what Blizzard tries to force over us. When the smoke is cleared and Blizzard stops pouring money into sc2 tourneys we will be left with dead scene and dead old game which was so great to watch and had so many fans.
This is not how free market works and this is not how you promote new stuff. I honestly hope more communities will join this "antiblizzard" thing KeSPA and pro teams forms. People should see that current EULA and Blizzard policy makes it impossible for this game to be esport success.
Go to hell blizzard and don't ruin my favourite entertainment.
Yes, change is a very scary thing. I can see here you're trying to sling anything you can to let us know how much you dislike SC2, but if there's one thing you shouldn't try to fault Blizzard on it is making a good game.
The players don't need to put on 250 pounds and slow down, they need to learn the new terms of engagement to the degree that only 10 years of practice can bring.
On September 07 2010 16:29 Novac wrote:
I respect that Blizzard should get some sort of compensation for their game, although the increase in sales from it being on TV I would think would be enough.
However, it seems obvious to me that eSports will never really thrive if a game company can claim Intellectual Property rights without limitation. This means that any game company will be able to just not sell the broadcasting rights whenever they feel like it. Like for instance if they had a sequel to the game coming out and wanted people to switch to the new game by killing the old.
I'm not saying that this is exactly the motivation behind what Activision/Blizzard is doing here, but it very well could be.
I like both SC:BW and SC2 but to be fair, SC:BW is an established eSports and if SC2 has potential to become an eSport as well, then it should be able to do so on it's own and not by forcing the best TV time slots.
KeSPA might have done some pretty lame things in the past, but they really need to win the coming lawsuit for the good of all eSports.
We're talking about the company that takes 10 years to release sequels, I don't think we need to worry about them pushing product faster than we can take it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
