EPTare hotkeys really that great? - Page 2
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Pob
880 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33426 Posts
On April 15 2004 03:29 Hautamaki wrote: I can click my minimap to go to my gates and select them and press the keyboard shortcut, and then press space bar to go back to the fight, than you can press 1-z 2-d 3-z 4-k etc, I guarantee it. And Wax, when you call me slow, are you referring to my low apm? APM means nothing, what matters is how quickly you accomplish tasks. I accomplish the same number of tasks as you, I just use fewer clicks because I'm not wasting time setting hotkeys and cycling through them. Personally I'd say I'm faster than you, despite having lower apm. I think the pvp games that we play, where I consistantly outharass you, bear me out on that score. you can't guarantee that, that wasn't the wisest thing to say -_- I produce by clicking on gates too ;p | ||
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koehli
Germany350 Posts
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Socke
Germany451 Posts
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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Yarertz
Djibouti1891 Posts
w/o it i would be TERRIBLE slow | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28682 Posts
there's nothing that has made me improve as much as starting using hotkeys. it made a bigger impact than changing from trackball into a normal mouse. which is also incredibly significant. when you're zealotrushing someone, if you don't have your gateways and nexus hotkeyed, you will either fuck up zealot micro every 20 seconds (which kills you), or you won't be producing probes/zealots. (which unless you kill him, kills you.) maybe you just have really really really tiny hands or something. but personally I can do 0a with my left hand faster than I can mark 12 units with my mouse and press a. and 1a goes way faster than 0a. honestly you probably haven't used them enough to realize how beneficial they are. mostly everyone who struggles with bad macro do so because they lack hotkeyed buildings. :/ that's what my tvz lacks too, but im not really fast enough to do it through hotkeys either in lategame. basically when you have to watch your units most of the time, you really really need to have the buildings hotkeyed, but if there's no action going on then it's not important. | ||
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gravity
Australia1912 Posts
edit: I hotkey gates when rushing now, but not in mid-game. | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
You say clicking gates and hitting z is faster, and I agree, this is faster than some moron using 1z 2z 3z. I think that is the slowest possible way to macro, period. However..this is how I macro: 1(click unit), 2(click unit). The same principle applies for me, that does for you. I keep my hand on my mouse, AND I keep my hand on my hotkey numbers, so I can c ontrol my units much faster than you could having to bring your hand back up from hitting Z. Not only that, but macroing with hotkeys allows you to quickly build more units in the heat of battle. You can click 123456 along with clicking on a zealot faster than light (the only down side is that sometimes if you do this too fast, it'll skip a gateway  ) But it's worth it to macro and micro your units at the same time, never taking your eyes off the actual action.Using hotkeys to control your units is a big thing for mobility. If you're facing 20 hydras, and you have 5 dragoons and 10 zealots, you'll want to run your zealots up and try to surround, right? That's easy if you've got your Zealots hotkeyed to 1. You just click 1, and send them around. However, if you're just selecting a bunch of units at once, you'll tell your dragoons to surround too, making them lose shoots, take more damage than normal, and possibly lose. With high templar drops, you usually want to do these in the heat of battle..so your opponet hears he's under attack from the front, and you storm him from the back. You want to control all your units, so you don't lose the front, and you storm him. It'd take too long to click back and fourth to do both at the same time, you might take some big damage (say he storms your front attack, while you're storming his probes..you lose 10 dragoons or something because you couldn't micro it at the same time) hotkeys help. Or if you're going to attack a zerg, and you wind up in a lurker field..you want to get your units out of there as fast as possible, and clicking and selecting just wouldn't be as fast as 1(right click), 2 (rightclick). You said your fingers are too small for the F keys.. well, unless you're sporting half inch nubs(yes, NUBS, that spells nubs, not newbs, and anyone who says nub as newb is a fucking idiot) (now that that's said, I can move on) you can reach those. If you want to play fast and effecient, your hands should primarily be near your hotkeys..and your fkeys are right up from those, giving you access to both. I guess your hand might be somewhere else if you were macroing by pressing z or d way down oin the keyboard, but give 1click2click a shot and see how that works maybe. and F keys..you gotta have those f'in f keys(AHAHHAHA, I MAKE FUNNEY) (I just woke up.) The only and best use for F keys for me, is used on your bases. Bases meaning, where you mine from. Using the MAYNARD TRANSFER, YES IT IS THE MAYNARD TRANSFER, DIE!, you can save a lot of probes, as well as make probes quickly and send newly made ones to mine. As I've explained before, f2, select, f3, right click. Faster than light, save you about 20 probes from tank drops. If you get later in the game with more than 3 expos, then after your first ones are massed up with probes, switch them to new bases so you can macro probes from there easily, by just hitting F2, click nexus, click probe (or hit P) Fuck me... /end rant | ||
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Toff
Norway309 Posts
On April 15 2004 04:11 jca wrote: haha, that's a funny statement. It's like saying to a F1 driver that driving fast means nothing, what matters is winning the race. Any chance of a correlation between the two? Please stop staying "APM means shit". APM is a measurement that contains some information about your ability to accomplish tasks quickly. That's all it is, but it's not "nothing". I don't think you understood what he meant. As I understood it he said he was probably as fast or faster than wax even if he had lower APM. Is that a funny statement? | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
I just can't imagine someone being even average at this game without hotkeys :S. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28682 Posts
there are just some aspects you will be really really bad at. like zealot rushing. playing decent pvt without hotkeying anything is definitely possible. but anyone will benefit from using hotkeys. | ||
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Surv[CIA]
Belgium176 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
On April 15 2004 08:47 Frits wrote: Thread creator... are you any good at this game? :-) I just can't imagine someone being even average at this game without hotkeys :S. I did it for the longest time on regular starcraft..I remember microwaring some guy, and he tried to explain to me what hotkeys were lol. I don't know how I actually started using them. I didn't learn about the shift click toadd to a group until like.. probably 7 months ago  | ||
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jca
France273 Posts
On April 15 2004 08:39 Toff wrote: I don't think you understood what he meant. As I understood it he said he was probably as fast or faster than wax even if he had lower APM. Is that a funny statement? I don't care what he meant, i care about what he wrote which is very clear: "APM means nothing, what matters is how quickly you accomplish tasks" and even you should be able to read it and realize it's absurd. If you don't, go back to school and learn. | ||
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Probe (H)
Netherlands448 Posts
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Probe (H)
Netherlands448 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
I don't care what he meant, i care about what he wrote which is very clear: "APM means nothing, what matters is how quickly you accomplish tasks" and even you should be able to read it and realize it's absurd. If you don't, go back to school and learn. the distinction between the speed of accomplishing tasks and APM is absurd? what the fuck? apm doesn't count minimap, f2 f3 f4, alt+c, it counts many things the same despite that some are much easier to do quickly (despite that one needs to do both of them) ... it's so easy to imagine an example where one raises their apm while the speed at which they accomplish tasks remains the same or is lowered, i won't even give you one. It's far easier for me to click on my minimap than it is to use an Fkey to center on my procution centers. My fingers are too short to reach the Fkeys without moving my whole arm. To do it with my mouse I only need to flick my wrist. just how short are your fingers? i think this may be more a question of form than of ability. put your pinky on ctrl. put your ring finger on shift. can you reach f2 with your middle finger? is it hard? do it until it isn't hard. problem solved probably. it's much worth it in the right situations. clicking the minimap accurately and quickly is, well.. slower than hitting "11" or f2 or even scrolling. it's a death hole that kills your pace because of the way the mini map works (lets you drag, so you have to almost stop to get it where you want it). if the minimap is faster than everything else, that is very weird. your minimap is godly or everything else is.. slower than the minimap? as for producing from buildings you didn't hotkey, that is pretty good in most cases as long as you quickly get the buildings on your screen in the first place. a hotkey or a location seems fine, but if your minimap is better than those, then go for it i guess. i am wondering just how fast your minimap is though because it seems to me that one has to stop or drag for longer than it takes to press 11 or f2 in order to get an accurate spot on the minimap. combined with some scrolling it can get pretty quick but. mm. strange hotkeying is the quickest way to go build a bunch of stuff while keeping your screen on your units, which is sometimes the thing to do. it's also the quickest way to center your screen on while selecting some units, which is the fastest reaction, or even to select and give them an order without centering the screen. at different points in the game either of these will be very powerful and not having them will cost you | ||
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