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Russian Federation405 Posts
On KeSPA—GOMTV relationship. Three points.
1. On KeSPA’s website GOMTV listed as a standard Media:f. e-Sports Related Media
- Cable TV : Ongamenet, MBC Game
- Internet TV : Gom TV, Pandora TV
- Internet Portals : Naver, Daum
- IP TV : Hana TV
- Ground Waves, Satellite based DMB real-time broadcast
- e-Sports Reporters : 23 Media including Daily news, Sports daily, Free news, Game Magazines, Online media
2. GOMTV is broadcasting Proleague matches (see TL thread) while broadcasting rights belong to KeSPA—IEG.
3. The reason for termination of the GOMTV Classic was the decision of three other teams (KT, STX, and ACE) did not take part in it. Four teams are not allowed their players to participate more in the previous season (SKT, hite, HERO, and eSTRO). “Gom cannot risk themselves with 5 teams.” source
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KeSPA took a 'dead' game (i was playing it 20 years ago) and also managed to take care right some really harismatic players and created something from nothing!!? Well BRAVO.
What is happening in korea It's keSPAS development not Blizzards.
SC2? i dont like it 2 many grafics and you miss the action of the gameplay i hope Flash and the others will stay in brood war but in the end it their choise.
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On May 06 2010 00:46 Gtks wrote:
KeSPA took a 'dead' game (i was playing it 20 years ago) and also managed to take care right some really harismatic players and created something from nothing!!? Well BRAVO.
What is happening in korea It's keSPAS development not Blizzards.
SC2? i dont like it 2 many grafics and you miss the action of the gameplay i hope Flash and the others will stay in brood war but in the end it their choise.
Way to not read the thread or to understand a single thing that's been going on in Korea.
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2 many grafics
needs a demotivator, possibly with a mugshot of idra.
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I think this thread is more about people protecting Esports as a korean sport, rather than the creators of the game themselves. So blizzard goes on to create a game that has lasting value, but you guys are so caught up in your love for the current MBC/OGN support for the game that you guys are willing to give power to KESPA? If I made a game and people were using MY game, to make profits. I would definitely want control/ a piece of the chip for the money they were making off MY game.
Greedy is a loaded word, companies are in it to make profit (hands down). Whether it's KESPA or Blizzard, they both are in it to make some money, otherwise they would cease to exist.
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On May 06 2010 01:18 Zeridian wrote:
I think this thread is more about people protecting Esports as a korean sport, rather than the creators of the game themselves. So blizzard goes on to create a game that has lasting value, but you guys are so caught up in your love for the current MBC/OGN support for the game that you guys are willing to give power to KESPA? If I made a game and people were using MY game, to make profits. I would definitely want control/ a piece of the chip for the money they were making off MY game.
Greedy is a loaded word, companies are in it to make profit (hands down). Whether it's KESPA or Blizzard, they both are in it to make some money, otherwise they would cease to exist.
Read all the articles... KeSPA wanted to share. It's just that Blizzard wanted to take EVERYTHING. ;;
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Zeridian we also BUYING Blizzards DVD's just becouse we neen to join asias servers noowere else you find pleople playing the game anymore.
So the Blizzards 'rights' are ended in there.
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There's a huge difference between getting a piece of the profit and demanding that you have complete control and ownership of anything anyone ever does with your creation. If a company designed a bicycle, they have absolutely no right to claim ownership of every stunt performance ever filmed using that bicycle. Blizzard gets their share from the sale of the game. What people then create with the game or within it belongs to the individual creators. If Blizzard wants to control everything maybe they should invest their own money building studios, securing tv broadcasting licenses, and everything else that the corporations of KeSPA took on the risk to invest. Blizzard may have created the game, but they've contributed nothing to building the league and broadcasting infrastructure so what gives them the right to suddenly own and control something they've invested absolutely nothing in?
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On May 06 2010 01:18 Zeridian wrote:
I think this thread is more about people protecting Esports as a korean sport, rather than the creators of the game themselves. So blizzard goes on to create a game that has lasting value, but you guys are so caught up in your love for the current MBC/OGN support for the game that you guys are willing to give power to KESPA? If I made a game and people were using MY game, to make profits. I would definitely want control/ a piece of the chip for the money they were making off MY game.
Greedy is a loaded word, companies are in it to make profit (hands down). Whether it's KESPA or Blizzard, they both are in it to make some money, otherwise they would cease to exist.
They were paid to be able to broadcast BW and they probably sold a lot more copies due to the publicity. People should stop talking as if Blizzard gained nothing at all from the korean eSports scene.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:58 JinMaikeul wrote:
There's a huge difference between getting a piece of the profit and demanding that you have complete control and ownership of anything anyone ever does with your creation. If a company designed a bicycle, they have absolutely no right to claim ownership of every stunt performance ever filmed using that bicycle. Blizzard gets their share from the sale of the game. What people then create with the game or within it belongs to the individual creators. If Blizzard wants to control everything maybe they should invest their own money building studios, securing tv broadcasting licenses, and everything else that the corporations of KeSPA took on the risk to invest. Blizzard may have created the game, but they've contributed nothing to building the league and broadcasting infrastructure so what gives them the right to suddenly own and control something they've invested absolutely nothing in?
You can't compare ownership of physical things and software.
Technically, when you buy a game you don't own the said game, but own a license to use it in the ways provisioned by the EULA. Also, Blizzard provides an underlying service, Battle.net, that you have to use to play the game whether you want it or not. Which I suppose gives them enough rights to demand whatever it is they want from anyone related to SC if they wish to continue using SC.
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On May 06 2010 01:18 Zeridian wrote:Greedy is a loaded word, companies are in it to make profit (hands down). Whether it's KESPA or Blizzard, they both are in it to make some money, otherwise they would cease to exist.
That is simply not true, Blizzard would not case to exist without royalties from esport. That is why it is greedy they already make allot from selling games they don't need more IP rights.
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This is a really complicated situation, there a viable interrests on both sides.
This is a problem that only E-Sports have compared to other sports. No other sport has an inventor behind the sport that claims rights over the specific sport. I mean what do you think would happen if the inventor of football came out and said that he wanted money from every single football league since he invented it? That would not work out to anybody's benefit.
Im usually behind blizzard in these things but i really think that, for the sake of E-Sports, Blizzard should butt out of this. If E-Sport is to grow, there cant be big firms trying to squese money out of the sports. It should be the sponsers that have full say in such things.
In short: I think that this is very narrowminded by Blizzard, they should not try to get such a big piece of the cake from KeSPA. Blizzard needs to fuck seriously fuck off, this is not how you treat a sport. Blizzard should have enough from the revenue of the game being bought, just like someone who makes footballs would. Its still a lot of money.
We dont want Blizzard to butt in on the TSL, giving us crap terms if we want to broadcast starcraft? Fuck no.
This is actually a very serious issue and even though i think KeSPA is a badly run organisation, I think they have the right in the grand scheme.
Dont let KeSPA being a badly run organisation blacken your view of what is really going on here.
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On May 06 2010 03:10 Random() wrote:You can't compare ownership of physical things and software.
Technically, when you buy a game you don't own the said game, but own a license to use it in the ways provisioned by the EULA.
That is simply not true, companies can't made up they own laws if EULA goes against country laws then that part has no legal power.
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I don't think this should be any suprise to anyone. Bnet 2.0 is making a strong effort to eliminate possible 3rd parties. Blizzard is basically forcing the game to have a tournament system mostly through their services. ALSO is not including lan for SC2, despite having region locks (divisions). I think blizzard wants full control over their system, and ICCUP isn't gonna be out for SC2. Overall I don't find it that suprising that they want full control over their own product, that they never anticipated to be a "big deal" in South Korea. Even if they hid behind the scenes in their dealings with KESPA don't just read Korean Media and assume it's a blizzard take only situation and KESPA is innocent until the facts are straight. I don't know the facts, so I side with the creators.
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JinMaikeul you re bloody right. All these years many players in Europe, America were really good in that game but Blizzard never took advadage of them. In Europe and America the market is really 'dead' (thanks to Blizzard) the people got smarter you know.
What the "company" is really doing it found a new alive market (thanks to KeSPA) their real problem is "how to shell their new broduct (sc2)" nothing else and it's difficult for them while a league is going on in an older version, many people are attached to the old product and noone really cares about their 'new' product.
In the end Blizzard is trying to turn that market to absorbe any 'new' product without making questions and demands.
Put your minds to work a little.
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On May 06 2010 03:16 Kong John wrote:
This is a really complicated situation, there a viable interrests on both sides.
This is a problem that only E-Sports have compared to other sports. No other sport has an inventor behind the sport that claims rights over the specific sport. I mean what do you think would happen if the inventor of football came out and said that he wanted money from every single football league since he invented it? That would not work out to anybody's benefit.
Im usually behind blizzard in these things but i really think that, for the sake of E-Sports, Blizzard should butt out of this. If E-Sport is to grow, there cant be big firms trying to squese money out of the sports. It should be the sponsers that have full say in such things.
In short: I think that this is very narrowminded by Blizzard, they should not try to get such a big piece of the cake from KeSPA. Blizzard needs to fuck seriously fuck off, this is not how you treat a sport. Blizzard should have enough from the revenue of the game being bought, just like someone who makes footballs would. Its still a lot of money.
We dont want Blizzard to butt in on the TSL, giving us crap terms if we want to broadcast starcraft? Fuck no.
This is actually a very serious issue and even though i think KeSPA is a badly run organisation, I think they have the right in the grand scheme.
Dont let KeSPA being a badly run organisation blacken your view of what is really going on here.
This. I think we're being far too clouded with KeSPA's past; if BW was broadcasted (ie, over TV) in your country, I wouldn't imagine you'd be too happy if they suddenly stopped broadcasting because it wasn't cost-efficient: Blizzard demanded too much money, the small broadcasting company gets nudged out and Blizzard runs a monopoly of who to charge and who not to, hence effectively the whole e-sports industry (as the vast majority of money comes from BW) lies in the hands of Blizzard. If they pull the support on a small company that only broadcasts SC2, where will that company be? Down the drain, jobs lost, tears shed.
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I was always curious about the whole relationship between Blizzard and e Sports in Korea, this is interesting. I highly doubt Blizzard would do any aggressive actions though, just b/c of the huge fanbase in Korea and the riots that would come about when SC 2 comes out
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kespa made sc broodwar go on this level it is now - not blizzard.. blizzard made a game and it's great game but kespa made great competitions.. blizzard's job is to create games and shut up.. kespa will give them free marketing at huge market..
i just can't belive how far can go blizzard greed.. i hate that company coz i loved them before.. fkin greedy creeps.. they have WOW, isn't it enough?!
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On May 05 2010 21:01 KristianJS wrote:
Eh, I'm way too clueless about what laws are involved here and the powerplay between these companies. What I know is this:
Both Kespa and Blizzard are engaged in this standoff because of money, that's it. Neither Blizzard nor Kespa represent some idealistic vision (get the impression a lot of people think of Blizzard as pure and virtuous...), they're just big companies fighting over control of a market. I have no clue who will win or what the outcome will be, nor do I really know what's more "fair" (both sides can make a good case) but honestly I'm not too worried. There IS a market for SC and hopefully for SC2 soon as well, and 'market's abhor a vacuum' so at the end of the day it's not like everything will collapse.
I guess at worst things will be shifted around a bit. Maybe I'm being naive here, but that's what I reckon...
+1
On May 05 2010 22:25 maybenexttime wrote:
@Yurebis
The reason people think that a true esports scene won't flourish without KeSPA is becase KeSPA = corporate sponsors, broadcasting companies, regulatory body, etc.
Can you imagine a lively esport scene without 11 progaming teams, OGN & MBC and a governing body? You're talking about some mysterious company replacing KeSPA, but exactly what company do you think would be able to replace the corporate sponsors behind the progaming teams, the broadcasting TV stations and at the same time regulate the whole sport?
The companies who are already involved with the StarCraft esports scene, members of KeSPA for the most part, are some of the biggest corporations in Korea. It's not exactly easy to replace them.
Those sponsors and channels are not tied to kespa, kespa and them are a symbiotic profit relationship. The sponsors are tied to the fans, the source of its profit. If KeSPA goes away, they'll find another agency who can do what KeSPA did, to keep business model and therefore profits going.
For KeSPA to die, even if it meant all the corporations would never be able to enter the scene again (no such thing, unless blizzard for some stupid reason doesn't allow those specific corporations to pay them royalties for SC2, which would be counter-intuitive to Blizzard's profits), it doesn't mean the fans will cease to like starcraft. The demand is still there, Kespa and the sponsors were supplying that demand. With them gone (even if all the sponsors are gone), new sponsors can come in to seize the profit opportunity (unless again, Blizzard is being such douches so much that no one wants to do business with them)
I personally dislike Blizzard's attempt to control everything. I would just make a game and allow everyone to broadcast, play lan, do whatever. It costs a lot trying to control, and I would not even bother trying to.
However, they know what they're doing, if they're doing something like that, it's because they feel they can be a "better KeSPA" themselves. If you believe Blizzard would put itself in a position where they would become unpopular and therefore miss a profit, you better think again. They will figure out the best means to draw the fans and sponsors, without KeSPA if they judge it to be a burden or unnecessary.
Again, at worst, what can happen is, BW keeps going in korea while blizzard missed their chance to capture the sponsors (with or without KeSPA) due to their "abusive" business models.
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On May 06 2010 04:49 purgerinho wrote:
kespa made sc broodwar go on this level it is now - not blizzard.. blizzard made a game and it's great game but kespa made great competitions.. blizzard's job is to create games and shut up.. kespa will give them free marketing at huge market..
i just can't belive how far can go blizzard greed.. i hate that company coz i loved them before.. fkin greedy creeps.. they have WOW, isn't it enough?!
This epitomizes most of the posts in this thread. Blizzard is a big bad wolf, KeSPA must be in the right. WRONG. Honestly, if WOW were enough, Blizzard wouldn't make any other game and you'd have nothing to play. Be glad that your money, Korean money, and money all over the world is still appetizing enough to Blizzard to motivate them into making more amazing games. This is how the world works outside of the basements of progenitors.
KeSPA is not immune to US-based intellectual properties, as South Korean laws stipulate almost to a fault the same rights that the US upholds. KeSPA is not supported by their government, or even all of their sponsors. They may say this, but it is in their favor to say it. They are in a corner, NEED to re-open negotiations, and the only thing they could possibly do is spin the truth and try to garner public support.
It won't work. KeSPA is not the healthiest thing for eSports on a wider level. They want to dominate the scene like they have been in the past, threatening players and sponsors who even consider touching tournaments and networks outside of their own domain. Heck, they even tried to sell the rights to something they don't own just to fasten more control and more income.
If you think blindly supporting KeSPA is something you should be doing, you should research and reconsider.
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EPT
