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[Update] KeSPA Speaks Out On Intellectual Property Rights…

Forum Index > BW General
823 CommentsPost a Reply
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infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
May 05 2010 23:23 GMT
#581
The best thing for the players and spectators of Starcraft is just Blizzard to stay out of Korea and leave the successful eSports infrastructure already created to run itself. Blizzard doing this literally helps nobody, it doesn't even help themselves because now they are completely alienating the single most well developed eSports organization and therefore by proxy, Korea in general. I don't understand what they are thinking to gain from this move, with the demands that they MUST know will not be accepted.

If they are serious about eSports then why are they not focusing their efforts on the rest of the world instead of the one place it happens to already work? It undermines everything they say they are trying to do. Along with their actions such as removing Lan.. of course i understand why they did this, but is it really necessarily? The recent Star Wars tournament had lag because of it, an offline tournament having fucking lag. Along with no way to go onto foreign servers, is this REALLY aimed at competitive play in any way at all? Think about it, is any action Blizzard have chosen in the benefit of eSports in any way.. i don't see how anyone can support Blizzard in this at all.
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
May 05 2010 23:24 GMT
#582
On May 06 2010 06:58 JinMaikeul wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@ Yurebis

I think you have a serious misconception of what KeSPA actually is. These corporations are not sponsoring KeSPA. They ARE KeSPA. Blizzard could do nothing with GOM because GOM is owned by CJ Media, which is part of KeSPA. No TV network in Korea will work with Blizzard because they are either owned by KeSPA corporations or would not benefit from aggravating them. Simply put, Blizzard has absolutely no leverage in Korea at all. Fighting against KeSPA in Korea is directly warring against Samsung, CJ, MBC, OGN, pretty much all the major companies in broadcast, technology, and telecommunications along with all the influence they hold in business and politics... This carries serious implications and is not a simple matter at all. Even if Blizzard somehow got through those obstacles, they would find it difficult to find sponsors in Korea. Do you think Shinhan Bank or even Korean Air would want to irk any of the afformentioned KeSPA members? Companies like Korean Air which would sponsor events will at some point or another need to have good relations with a company like Samsung. They have no need for any relationship at all with Blizzard or Activision, which are really insignificant no-name companies by comparison. There's also no real way for Blizzard to "not give" SC2 to KeSPA for broadcasting either since the way Korean law is, if they just buy a legal copy of the game, they're permitted to broadcast it. There would be no realistic way for Blizzard to stop them either so that entire argument about competing in that manner is moot...

Blizzard's best course of action would really to be to leave KeSPA alone and forget about trying to control Korea altogether. It's too difficult as the eSports infrastructure there has grown too strong to be controlled in such a manner by a company as small as Blizzard. Just let KeSPA do what they want... Blizzard should instead focus its own efforts on developing somewhere outside of Korea from the ground up. It will be much easier for them to have influence on a smaller, more insignificant league like the MLG or a similar league. Once they have done this, they will have a little bit more bargaining power when it comes to Korea because they will have a voice in the non-Korean side of any negotiations in terms of international competition.

Just to put things into perspective. Imagine a conglomerate in the USA comprised of Time Warner, Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, most major broadcasting companies, and some far reaching company like Microsoft. Then imagine they had influence over half of Congress and also were on the board of pretty much any other major company... That's pretty much KeSPA because of the political environment in Korea and the way Korean corporations operate (everyone has their hand in everything). If NCSoft comes over from Korea to the USA and tries to strong arm that group of companies, do you think they'll take them seriously? Blizzard needs to stop trying here and spend their time on more productive things. Korea will not budge for them because they don't need to..


Sorry I was gonna leave this thread but I just had to reply to this nonsense.

"Blizzard has absolutely no leverage in Korea at all"? How about complete and absolute rights to Starcraft 2, a game Kespa would be hard pressed to survive without?

You should rather ask what leverage Kespa got on Blizzard. Even without a Korean Proleague, SC2 will still sell loads and loads of copies in Korea, there will be a pro-scene much like WC3(lots of players are already leaving Kespa in order to be allowed to play SC2). It would be unfortunate but on a global scale not a big deal, nothing they'd ever give in to Kespa for at this point.
Taku
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada2036 Posts
May 05 2010 23:28 GMT
#583
On May 06 2010 08:15 Yurebis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 06:58 JinMaikeul wrote:
@ Yurebis

I think you have a serious misconception of what KeSPA actually is.


And I think you have a serious misconception on who ultimately controls esports.
If every fan would be sick of SC and wanted to see SC2 matches, who would buckle? The fans, having to put up with the KeSPA's BW? Or would they just leave, "forcing" KeSPA to start including SC2 (be it with Blizzards' approval or not)?

I don't doubt for a second that all those oh soh powerful corporations would be the first to buckle, because their interest is in advertising, which in turn, depends on the fans interest. If the fans want SC2, they better deliver SC2, or suffer losses.

Thank you for explaining to me what KeSPA is, but I'm doubtful that it such an united corporate front as you pose it to be. Corporations only have profit as their goal, right? An alliance is only a circumstantial means to get to the costumers what the costumers want (conversely, to get $$$ from them). Whenever the fans want something else, they'll break.

Several problems with your position.

There are other games on the level of esports in korea besides SC. Not nearly as big as SC of course, but enough where the loss of SC isn't completely fatal.

Also, apparently the netizens in Korea are overwhelmingly backing kespa. And where would esports be without the major corporations paying the costs for the infrastructure required to broadcast progaming. It's the strength and charisma of the initial progamers which not only established esports as a viable media, but convinced companies that it was worth putting money into it. Just read about how ghetto it was back in the early days of SC progaming to see how different it would be without these major sponsorships.

As the other guy mentioned, the fact that blizzard is being confrontational with kespa, which is made up of *the* major corporations in Korea, means that it's doubtful any of them would sponsor something blizzard starts on its own, which makes it more likely that blizzard would be the one to be forced to resort to shady sponsors. Oh and because blizzard is basically trying to stomp all over them and not leaving much room to accommodate while saving face, especially by making it personal between blizzard and kespa, I wonder how accommodating said sponsors will really be in dealing with blizzard the foreigner company. Korea != America.
When SC2 came for BW, I cried. Now LoL/Dota2 comes for SC2, and I laugh. \o/
DrakanSilva
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Chile932 Posts
May 05 2010 23:28 GMT
#584
On May 06 2010 05:52 Yurebis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 05:14 maybenexttime wrote:
On May 06 2010 04:55 Yurebis wrote:
On May 05 2010 21:01 KristianJS wrote:
Eh, I'm way too clueless about what laws are involved here and the powerplay between these companies. What I know is this:

Both Kespa and Blizzard are engaged in this standoff because of money, that's it. Neither Blizzard nor Kespa represent some idealistic vision (get the impression a lot of people think of Blizzard as pure and virtuous...), they're just big companies fighting over control of a market. I have no clue who will win or what the outcome will be, nor do I really know what's more "fair" (both sides can make a good case) but honestly I'm not too worried. There IS a market for SC and hopefully for SC2 soon as well, and 'market's abhor a vacuum' so at the end of the day it's not like everything will collapse.

I guess at worst things will be shifted around a bit. Maybe I'm being naive here, but that's what I reckon...

+1

On May 05 2010 22:25 maybenexttime wrote:
@Yurebis

The reason people think that a true esports scene won't flourish without KeSPA is becase KeSPA = corporate sponsors, broadcasting companies, regulatory body, etc.

Can you imagine a lively esport scene without 11 progaming teams, OGN & MBC and a governing body? You're talking about some mysterious company replacing KeSPA, but exactly what company do you think would be able to replace the corporate sponsors behind the progaming teams, the broadcasting TV stations and at the same time regulate the whole sport?

The companies who are already involved with the StarCraft esports scene, members of KeSPA for the most part, are some of the biggest corporations in Korea. It's not exactly easy to replace them.


Those sponsors and channels are not tied to kespa, kespa and them are a symbiotic profit relationship. The sponsors are tied to the fans, the source of its profit. If KeSPA goes away, they'll find another agency who can do what KeSPA did, to keep business model and therefore profits going.

For KeSPA to die, even if it meant all the corporations would never be able to enter the scene again (no such thing, unless blizzard for some stupid reason doesn't allow those specific corporations to pay them royalties for SC2, which would be counter-intuitive to Blizzard's profits), it doesn't mean the fans will cease to like starcraft. The demand is still there, Kespa and the sponsors were supplying that demand. With them gone (even if all the sponsors are gone), new sponsors can come in to seize the profit opportunity (unless again, Blizzard is being such douches so much that no one wants to do business with them)

I personally dislike Blizzard's attempt to control everything. I would just make a game and allow everyone to broadcast, play lan, do whatever. It costs a lot trying to control, and I would not even bother trying to.

However, they know what they're doing, if they're doing something like that, it's because they feel they can be a "better KeSPA" themselves. If you believe Blizzard would put itself in a position where they would become unpopular and therefore miss a profit, you better think again. They will figure out the best means to draw the fans and sponsors, without KeSPA if they judge it to be a burden or unnecessary.

Again, at worst, what can happen is, BW keeps going in korea while blizzard missed their chance to capture the sponsors (with or without KeSPA) due to their "abusive" business models.


What do you mean by KeSPA then? Afaik those sponsors comprise KeSPA for the most part. If they leave "KeSPA" and form another coalition it'll still be KeSPA, just under a different name... ;; And that new coalition would still not agree to Blizzard terms.

So I'll repeat my question: what do you understand by KeSPA? What would be left of KeSPA if the corporate sponsors and OGN/MBC left it? As far as I know, not much.

But do you understand the issue at hand? It's not some imaginary KeSPA that has a gripe with Blizzard. It's the corporate sponsors and the broadcasting companies that oppose those ridiculous terms. KeSPA is just a name of their coalition that happens to be Korean esports governing body. The team owners will not give away the teams they're investing tons of money into just like that. OGN/MBC are not going to give the ownership of all the StarCraft (2) related content they produce to Blizzard either.

What Blizzard means by looking for a new partner is turning their back to the corporate sponsors who invested in the StarCraft esports sector, OGN and MBC - not the referees or whoever else.

KeSPA isn't doing too great, but I can only imagine Blizzard would screw everything up even more. They're already being extremely restrictive when it comes to having any sort of bigger initiative in the esports sector with SC2. They have all sorts of stupid policies and ideas and they removed some crucial features that are only gonig to hurt the esports scene. They can't even do any proper coverage for things like BlizzCon and they think they can gover the whole esports scene. Ridiculous.

OK if what you say is true, then you mean the transition between sponsors+channels -> KeSPA is quite flawless?
KeSPA has always been doing exactly that which the sponsors want?

I see what you mean then. Still,

The sponsors are only loosely affiliated, for if they see that there's a greater profit opportunity outside of KeSPA, don't doubt for a second, they'll leave KeSPA and go with it.

Say Blizzard doesn't give KeSPA SC2, and tries to establish it's new "BlizzeSPA" (what an ugly name) with separate licensing, separate tourneys obviously, separate channels (with GOM maybe). At first it starts slow, because KeSPA tightens it's grips on the players and channels, saying they can't play, broadcast, nor acquire licenses with BlizzeSPA if they want to keep their KeSPA ones. So KeSPA and BlizzeSPA are competing on the starcraft korean scene.
Then, if SC2 really is the superior game as blizzard says it is, it will inevitably, even with the restraints that the old sponsors put into the starcraft 1 players, loose the market share. Fans will like starcraft 2 better, the nerds will be playing sc2 more eventually, and sc1 will be a thing of the past. The KeSPA corporations then, are now on deficit, and once one or two of them leave kespa, they'll all break apart, or at best, they'll shrink in size a lot and become just a niche, or just another game league, w\ few to no teams anymore. All players and fans shifted to SC2. The corporations will want to join BlizzeSPA because that's where the money is at now.

Or, in the opposite perspective, SC2 and BlizzeSPA sucks so much balls that there won't be a transition ever and korea will stay w\ BW.

Point being, the corporations just go where the money's at, meaning, where the fans want to go.

So I wouldn't fear for KeSPA's death.


Absolutely agree with Yurebis.

I also don't fear for KeSPA's death because i am not from Korea, but KeSPA have a very good market position in the mind of thousands of korean proplayers, fans, and supporters.

If KeSPA dies it will die also with those untangible atributes like, Brand Positioning, Know-How, and Trust.
The problem is that if a new company appears to be the substitute of KeSPA, they will have to do a very huge marketing investment so they can be trusted by the sponsors, the proplayers, the fans, the broadcasting teams and all those intangible atributes that KeSPA have been building for years.

But our best bet if KeSPA dies is to have one of their members to create a new organization to work in cooperation with blizzard so this "new kespa" can be trusted by the consumers/providers/shareholders.


In the beginning there was nothing... and then exploded
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 23:41:31
May 05 2010 23:28 GMT
#585
On May 06 2010 08:15 Yurebis wrote:
And I think you have a serious misconception on who ultimately controls esports.
If every fan would be sick of SC and wanted to see SC2 matches, who would buckle? The fans, having to put up with the KeSPA's BW? Or would they just leave, "forcing" KeSPA to start including SC2 (be it with Blizzards' approval or not)?

I don't doubt for a second that all those oh soh powerful corporations would be the first to buckle, because their interest is in advertising, which in turn, depends on the fans interest. If the fans want SC2, they better deliver SC2, or suffer losses.

Thank you for explaining to me what KeSPA is, but I'm doubtful that it such an united corporate front as you pose it to be. Corporations only have profit as their goal, right? An alliance is only a circumstantial means to get to the costumers what the costumers want (conversely, to get $$$ from them). Whenever the fans want something else, they'll break.


KeSPA will no doubt include SC2 tournaments right alongside its BW tournaments once SC2 is released. It's not even a question. The only question that exists is what part Blizzard will play (if any) in the Korean eSports scene and that's what this entire debate is about. Where on earth did you get the impression that KeSPA was only interested in keeping BW alive while killing of SC2?

KeSPA is a completely united front right now because they realize that there is power in unity. The only way Blizzard gets a 1-up here is if it somehow gets KeSPA to break apart and begin infighting. This simply will not happen because there is nothing Blizzard can offer that KeSPA does not already have access to. My entire point really is that there is no need for KeSPA as it stands right now to buckle or give into anything because they are fully capable of delivering what the fans want be it SC:BW or SC2 without any need for Blizzard in the equation.

The scenario you're arguing is if somehow KeSPA doesn't offer SC2 and someone else does. This is a completely unrealistic scenario simply because there's absolutely no reason why KeSPA cannot or will not create its own SC2 league... I don't think there's anyone arguing anything at all under that premise.

____________

On May 06 2010 08:24 Longshank wrote:
Sorry I was gonna leave this thread but I just had to reply to this nonsense.

"Blizzard has absolutely no leverage in Korea at all"? How about complete and absolute rights to Starcraft 2, a game Kespa would be hard pressed to survive without?

You should rather ask what leverage Kespa got on Blizzard. Even without a Korean Proleague, SC2 will still sell loads and loads of copies in Korea, there will be a pro-scene much like WC3(lots of players are already leaving Kespa in order to be allowed to play SC2). It would be unfortunate but on a global scale not a big deal, nothing they'd ever give in to Kespa for at this point.


WC3 failed in Korea because of the map scandal. After this, Korean players were forced to look for competition in the international community since WC3 died as a major eSport in SK.

Blizzard has no leverage because in Korea if you buy a legal copy of the game, you are given the right to broadcast it. There's no way for Blizzard to stop KeSPA from creating and broadcasting their own SC2 league in Korea. So again, Blizzard has absolutely no leverage within the international boundaries of Korea in regard to this situation simply because the laws regarding intellectual property are not the same as a country such as the United States. You have to stop thinking of intellectual property rights as a foregone conclusion in order to understand the business maneuvering that's going on here...

Please understand that I'm being very specific and talking about only Korea here. Of course if it turns out that the international pro-scene becomes stronger than the Korean pro-scene, Blizzard will then have some leverage assuming that they are in control of the international scene. But this is something that only time will tell and also the reason I feel Blizzard should focus on this instead of trying to get KeSPA to roll over..
hhkx
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada757 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 23:45:50
May 05 2010 23:45 GMT
#586
On May 06 2010 08:24 Longshank wrote:

Sorry I was gonna leave this thread but I just had to reply to this nonsense.

"Blizzard has absolutely no leverage in Korea at all"? How about complete and absolute rights to Starcraft 2, a game Kespa would be hard pressed to survive without?

You should rather ask what leverage Kespa got on Blizzard. Even without a Korean Proleague, SC2 will still sell loads and loads of copies in Korea, there will be a pro-scene much like WC3(lots of players are already leaving Kespa in order to be allowed to play SC2). It would be unfortunate but on a global scale not a big deal, nothing they'd ever give in to Kespa for at this point.



KESPA has the power to block SC2 from distributing in Korea, to be more specific, they can influence the game rating board to give SC2 an adult only rating(19+). Blizzard is currently on its 3rd attempts to appeal that decision.
Gtks
Profile Joined March 2010
Greece135 Posts
May 05 2010 23:52 GMT
#587
JinMaikeul the only strong card Blizzard has to stop the production of BW nothing else.

NO dvd on the market you can't play all of them will be forced to move in SC2 you like it or NOT.
and the FUNS will be teached to love the new game.

So whats the point of speacking about fronts ? Samsung is inside Trilateral but they will take no action couse they really don't give a shit.

You are good i like you learn to give the sort version of thinks is better.
Thessaloniki - Greece
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 00:05:05
May 05 2010 23:53 GMT
#588
I think way too many people here are looking at this situation a bit simplistically. You can't just eliminate KeSPA because of the nature of KeSPA and how the member corporations relate to each other and the Korean business community. Large corporations in Korea hold much more sway in the political field than corporations in countries like the US so you can't look at it so simply by saying "Well Blizzard has intellectual property rights." or something like that. Intellectual property rights are not universal nor do they matter when they cannot be enforced.

Any illusion that Blizzard has some sort of voice or power here can immediately be discarded when you stop and actually consider realistic scenarios and consequences. For better or worse, KeSPA is here to stay as the dominant entity in the Korean eSports world. That's just fact... What happens outside of Korea? Only God knows... but any logical person will tell you that in Korea, KeSPA > Blizzard by a very, very large margin.

On May 06 2010 08:52 Gtks wrote:
JinMaikeul the only strong card Blizzard has to stop the production of BW nothing else.

NO dvd on the market you can't play all of them will be forced to move in SC2 you like it or NOT.
and the FUNS will be teached to love the new game.

So whats the point of speacking about fronts ? Samsung is inside Trilateral but they will take no action couse they really don't give a shit.

You are good i like you learn to give the sort version of thinks is better.


Well BW is a slowly dying game in Korea at this point. I doubt Blizzard stopping production of BW will do anything considering most of the serious gaming is done on private servers, requiring no CD key. So as long as the game can be downloaded it can stay alive...

If Blizzard really wanted to go extreme, I suppose they could IP block all of Korea or isolate Korea into its own region, thereby cutting off Korea from the international community. I highly doubt they would do something along these lines, though, simply because it wouldn't only be negative for Koreans, but for the whole community... Truth be told, Blizzard doesn't really have a whole lot of options aside from just taking royalties from KeSPA and being content with not having a say or owning everything KeSPA does or makes...
Gtks
Profile Joined March 2010
Greece135 Posts
May 06 2010 00:25 GMT
#589
There is no action in Europe and Usa regions so Blizzard will try to unite all regions the koreans are safe. I don't like sc2 couse they developed big graffics animated nooncens and you missing the real action.

I gave to a Frient of mine a Flash VOD to see and he was begging me for more finaly i gave him the link of Team liquit web side ccouse Blizzards web site sucks.

The truth is i don't take the 'nagotians' seriously Flash is having heavy schedule Blizzard is better to shut the fuck up until he finish and then will see.

I done from this threat.
Thessaloniki - Greece
Drekkonis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada286 Posts
May 06 2010 00:48 GMT
#590
I have to say, I am astonished at how some people are taking a "Blizzard can just erase Kespa with a thought" mentality, coupled by "they will just run their own SC2 stuff in Korea." .

eSports is an industry much like any industry and requires a investment in infrastructure and at the foundation of that infrastructure is Media. esports .... ALL major sports are powered and funded by the media in one way or another.

Sponsors don't pay to be associated with the players for the piddly 300 or even thousands of people watching live, they pay to have a potential access to 50 million people in Korea with television access. They pay good money too.

I don't think most people are grasping the gravity of the situation, because Kespa is made up of OnGameNet and MBC, Korea's major cable owners. Korea is not the United states where if Fox says no you can just turn around and say NBC here you go. If either are not appeased they just won't allow broadcasting and less you forget ... Broadcasting is what made SK esports what is today.

Don't make any mistake , if Blizzard fails to get Kespa to see eye to eye with them , they won't propel esports in Korea. Why would they? They arn't a marketing company, nor are they a broadcasting company. Blizzard makes VERY good games... thats what they are good at, why would they try to do something haphazard oversees and run the risk of loosing money... their stakeholders would fire their CEO if it failed.

If Blizzard saw what Korea was doing and thought "hey we don't really need you, we'll just replicate what your doing and displace you" , they could of mimic'd it here in North America (which is 4 times the potential market size of Korea) and just made it rich and be done with it, and begin plans to invade Korea markets. But thats not how the magic works... you need a media infrastructure to be able to execute something like that. That kind of opportunity would of only been available before the pre-activision merger when vivendi universal still had a stake in vivendi games..

Blizzard (activision) is not God and far from the acquisition power of something of the likes of say.. Google who if was putt in the situation I would agree that chances of them investing and just dusting Kespa away would be high.

Blizzard would be hard pressed to convince their stakeholders to create a television company from scratch over in Korea, seeing as its totally off the beaten track of their portfolio. GOMTV was a convenient backdoor seeing as GOMTV isn't traditional media base but new media based only using the GOM player which has a penetration of 8.4 million users in SK (wikipedia), made sense and I am sure Kespa saw this as a great way for blizzard to operate a shadow operation.

Do not delude yourself to think that Blizzard will a) setup shop in Korea , or B) bypass Kespa through any other means. Blizzard isn't taking the situation lightly, because the sales blackout in Korea to their stakeholder is the equivalence of being barred from selling ice cream to dessert folk.

BUT if their terms for them to acquire an overseas asset (yes, this is what they want, an asset to be able to make money with out putting no more resources than the cost of the paper the contract is written on) are not met, they will focus on other markets primarily their Canadian, U.S and European markets with population and market size towering over SK. Because for them to go over to Korea and operate anything will require them to invest their resources... resources which could be spent doing what? Thats right making VERY good games... which doesn't come cheap.
the difference between our skill is like heaven and hell
kmdarkmaster
Profile Joined January 2010
France188 Posts
May 06 2010 01:06 GMT
#591
On May 05 2010 07:47 urashimakt wrote:

Please don't make things up, you'll start rumors. The South Korean government does not back KeSPA in any substantial manner and the South Korean national sport is Tae Kwon Do.


If Blizz is so sure that Kespa is violating their IP rights, why not just sue them ? I'm pretty sure Korean court will back Kespa and Blizz will get nothing except the loyalties. The point is, no government will allow a foreign company to control most aspects of their country's popular sport, there is so much at risk if you let this thing happens : the power to broadcast/stop broadcast the sport (which can affect the population), to create idols, to change public opinions, to monopoly an economy domain... If e-sport is to be continued in Korea, it will be controlled by a Korean organization, if they are to accept foreign control they will only subdue to a bigger international association of e-sport (like FIFA of foorball), not a game company !

Blizz should just get the loyalties and focus on the international scene, where SC is still not classified as a sport (which means Blizz can monopoly everything), but when the game evolve into a popular sport governments will take over (even in Europe or the US).
eddiehobbes
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
May 06 2010 01:27 GMT
#592
There are some pretty ridiculous things thrown down in this thread.

My opinion is that Kespa doesn't have two legs to stand on. Kespa has limited options and they are missing out BIG on Starcraft 2. Starcraft has become so popular in South Korea, its amazing. It's thanks to coverage before Kespa, Kespa, the leagues, the broadcasting, the teams, the players and the fans. Kespa to me is turning its back on all of those by being stubborn and inflexible. Kespa needs to work with Blizzard. The free publicity and marketing they give to Blizzard games is a fine argument UNTIL the moment they started making substantial amounts of money off it, which changes the terms aka you need to pay royalties and work out terms with blizzard especially because you are broadcasting on television.

It is a mystery to me why people support Kespa. They're acting like a bunch of thugs. Strong-arming the GOMTV tourney, a massive sports fixing gambling scandal, influencing the government to rate Starcraft 18+ (Are you freaking serious? South Korea made Oldboy, which makes Starcraft look like LEGOs) and other scandals.

I disagree with idea Kespa is some kind of united corporate, broadcasting, team, player, sponsor front. Staples Corp. doesn't own the Los Angeles Lakers just because they play in the Staples Center for jimmys sake. Yeah real UNITED players leak their own team's replays to the other UNITED teams and secretly fix matches for money. Broadcasters, which are supposed to be united in Kespa torpedo GOMTVs tournament. The players and the fans deserve the most credit. A worst case scenario would be if there is some kind of Starcraft II season lockout. What Kespa does is highly overrated. It is more culture within south korea, the great fans and players that drive competitive e-sports. To me it is Kespa being stubborn because they want the same rights as they did with Starcraft, which was pretty much free reign, which is unfair to Blizzard.

Blizzard wants control of their intellectual property. They don't want their game being attached with the stigma of stupid scandals. All of us would be just as frustrated if someone took our creation and ran away with it and demanded to run away with part 2 or else.

Kespa stands to lose a lot more from this than Blizzard does, and they can pretend and delude themselves all they want, but they're hurting themselves, esports and fans. I don't think Blizzard want to do Kespas job, just more transparency and regulation on what broadcasters can do with Starcraft 2. If either side goes to extremes, the most damaging thing they can do, I think Kespa has showed its hand, the crap they do and is harming fans.
Drekkonis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada286 Posts
May 06 2010 01:28 GMT
#593
On May 06 2010 10:06 kmdarkmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2010 07:47 urashimakt wrote:

Please don't make things up, you'll start rumors. The South Korean government does not back KeSPA in any substantial manner and the South Korean national sport is Tae Kwon Do.


If Blizz is so sure that Kespa is violating their IP rights, why not just sue them ? I'm pretty sure Korean court will back Kespa and Blizz will get nothing except the loyalties. The point is, no government will allow a foreign company to control most aspects of their country's popular sport, there is so much at risk if you let this thing happens : the power to broadcast/stop broadcast the sport (which can affect the population), to create idols, to change public opinions, to monopoly an economy domain... If e-sport is to be continued in Korea, it will be controlled by a Korean organization, if they are to accept foreign control they will only subdue to a bigger international association of e-sport (like FIFA of foorball), not a game company !

Blizz should just get the loyalties and focus on the international scene, where SC is still not classified as a sport (which means Blizz can monopoly everything), but when the game evolve into a popular sport governments will take over (even in Europe or the US).


They can't just sue them because , the laws run different from country to country (this was mentioned in several above posts) . Blizzard can't just go around conquering esports... because Blizzard isn't a League lol, its a developer. If they could develop a league at the drop of a hat I am sure they would of told MLG "no" to using WoW their most successful franchise.
the difference between our skill is like heaven and hell
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 01:51:02
May 06 2010 01:33 GMT
#594
Blizzard could probably get around the rating by doing what other games have done in the past, removing blood from the game and changing the death animations to units fading out or something. If the rating board is specific about what they have problems with. But this would HAVE to be for only the korean version because if they do it to my version I will start lobbying for a full US withdrawl from S. Korea so N. Korea is free to begin shelling.

What does Sc2 have that is more graphic than this?
[image loading]

I call shenanigans!!
:)
Drekkonis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada286 Posts
May 06 2010 01:37 GMT
#595
On May 06 2010 10:27 eddiehobbes wrote:


It is a mystery to me why people support Kespa. They're acting like a bunch of thugs. Strong-arming the GOMTV tourney, a massive sports fixing gambling scandal, influencing the government to rate Starcraft 18+ (Are you freaking serious? South Korea made Oldboy, which makes Starcraft look like LEGOs) and other scandals.

I


I actually admired those moves they did, They are fighting over a game called Starcraft, a strategy game, I think it would be silly if either side didn't use cut throat tactics to get what they wanted.

Blizzard moved their queen(removing Lan) killing Kespa's rook and Kespa used their bishop to destroy blizzard's Pawn (GomTV)
the difference between our skill is like heaven and hell
Yurebis
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1452 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-06 01:47:21
May 06 2010 01:45 GMT
#596
On May 06 2010 08:28 JinMaikeul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 08:15 Yurebis wrote:
And I think you have a serious misconception on who ultimately controls esports.
If every fan would be sick of SC and wanted to see SC2 matches, who would buckle? The fans, having to put up with the KeSPA's BW? Or would they just leave, "forcing" KeSPA to start including SC2 (be it with Blizzards' approval or not)?

I don't doubt for a second that all those oh soh powerful corporations would be the first to buckle, because their interest is in advertising, which in turn, depends on the fans interest. If the fans want SC2, they better deliver SC2, or suffer losses.

Thank you for explaining to me what KeSPA is, but I'm doubtful that it such an united corporate front as you pose it to be. Corporations only have profit as their goal, right? An alliance is only a circumstantial means to get to the costumers what the costumers want (conversely, to get $$$ from them). Whenever the fans want something else, they'll break.


KeSPA will no doubt include SC2 tournaments right alongside its BW tournaments once SC2 is released. It's not even a question. The only question that exists is what part Blizzard will play (if any) in the Korean eSports scene and that's what this entire debate is about. Where on earth did you get the impression that KeSPA was only interested in keeping BW alive while killing of SC2?

[snip]

Blizzard has no leverage because in Korea if you buy a legal copy of the game, you are given the right to broadcast it. There's no way for Blizzard to stop KeSPA from creating and broadcasting their own SC2 league in Korea. So again, Blizzard has absolutely no leverage within the international boundaries of Korea in regard to this situation simply because the laws regarding intellectual property are not the same as a country such as the United States. You have to stop thinking of intellectual property rights as a foregone conclusion in order to understand the business maneuvering that's going on here...

Please understand that I'm being very specific and talking about only Korea here. Of course if it turns out that the international pro-scene becomes stronger than the Korean pro-scene, Blizzard will then have some leverage assuming that they are in control of the international scene. But this is something that only time will tell and also the reason I feel Blizzard should focus on this instead of trying to get KeSPA to roll over..


How about shutting down the KeSPA proleague games? Whenever KeSPA is playing a game, broadcasted or not you know, just drop them. Should be fun to be a blizz employee then, playing whack-a-mole against KeSPA. Is that enough leverage? Would the koreans still be able to play and broadcast games then?

They would need to use cracks... All pro teams and players, referees, all broadcasting channels and even the poor observers, would have to use a cracked version of SC2, on plain sight, hell, on TV even. The government would have to turn a blind eye to it all. Would KeSPA, no the Korean Government look good, by allowing such a massive use of a cracked piece of software? It wouldn't be just about broadcasting anymore, it would mean no software vendor would be safe in korea anymore. If the government is to allow KeSPA and related individuals to run a cracked SC2, then why not allow everyone to run any type of pirated software? The software industry would instantly tank as a whole. Every vendor is going to be out of SK overnight.

If KeSPA wants to play dirty, then the whole Korean Government will have to back it up. And then everyone's going to get dirty along with it. I don't think they want that to happen, unless they're fine with losing a whole industry just to play SC2 of course.

So you see, Blizzard does knows what it's doing and yes, they do have leverage. KeSPA will either come to agreements with Blizzard, or they'll stay with Broodwar (and shortly die?). I don't see it any other way. Is there any way for KeSPA to circumvent Blizzards' servers without causing a software IP rights meltdown in Korea? If not, then it's a no-go.
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Kurr
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2338 Posts
May 06 2010 02:08 GMT
#597
I know it's farfetched but, what if Blizzard decided to delay Starcraft 2's release in Korea because of the rating issue? I realize they would never do this because they would lose money but let's face it, they have WoW so they are set for a loooong time. I think the delay would be a big blow to KeSPA, much more so than to Blizzard (because, let's face it, people would buy it afterwards anyway). I can't imagine any fan would be too happy about the delay and Blizzard could easily divert the blame to KeSPA and the rating.

And like some others have also pointed out, having no LAN gives Blizzard all the leverage they need in this case.

I don't know much about the Korean eSports scene but I'm pretty sure Blizzard has thought this through. And since it's their game, all the cards are in their hand (IE no LAN; I'm sure they had their lawyers ready with whatever comes next before they announced the release date as well).
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ | ┻━┻ ︵╰(°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
May 06 2010 02:11 GMT
#598
Blizzard's business point of view on e-sports in Korea is that SC2 will never be big if BW is still alive. By allowing Blizzard to take control of KeSPA, they will destroy the BW scene to pave way for SC2. Blizzard's only interest in controlling KeSPA is not interest in what KeSPA does with BW. If Blizzard really does care, they would not only now came up with these unacceptable terms to KeSPA. Only at this convenient time where SC2 is looming around the corner, they decide to try to stick their hands into KeSPA to try to kill BW so they can make money off SC2.

Fuck you Blizzard, stay away from my Pro SC:BW. Keep your piece of shit SC2 to yourself, I will never support SC2.
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
May 06 2010 02:15 GMT
#599
Did I miss where everyone came to the agreement that SC2 will just replace BW and that KeSPA is screwed without it? This ridiculous assumption has been around since SC2 was released, and you'd think with the state of the game as it is right now in beta, it would actually have less merit than it does!

You guys can speculate all you want about things like this, but BW is still as exciting as ever in Korea. Acting like KeSPA is 'dead' if they don't get rights to do what they want with SC2 is just crazy.
Oh, my eSports
LonelyMargarita
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
1845 Posts
May 06 2010 02:30 GMT
#600
On May 06 2010 10:45 Yurebis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 08:28 JinMaikeul wrote:
On May 06 2010 08:15 Yurebis wrote:
And I think you have a serious misconception on who ultimately controls esports.
If every fan would be sick of SC and wanted to see SC2 matches, who would buckle? The fans, having to put up with the KeSPA's BW? Or would they just leave, "forcing" KeSPA to start including SC2 (be it with Blizzards' approval or not)?

I don't doubt for a second that all those oh soh powerful corporations would be the first to buckle, because their interest is in advertising, which in turn, depends on the fans interest. If the fans want SC2, they better deliver SC2, or suffer losses.

Thank you for explaining to me what KeSPA is, but I'm doubtful that it such an united corporate front as you pose it to be. Corporations only have profit as their goal, right? An alliance is only a circumstantial means to get to the costumers what the costumers want (conversely, to get $$$ from them). Whenever the fans want something else, they'll break.


KeSPA will no doubt include SC2 tournaments right alongside its BW tournaments once SC2 is released. It's not even a question. The only question that exists is what part Blizzard will play (if any) in the Korean eSports scene and that's what this entire debate is about. Where on earth did you get the impression that KeSPA was only interested in keeping BW alive while killing of SC2?

[snip]

Blizzard has no leverage because in Korea if you buy a legal copy of the game, you are given the right to broadcast it. There's no way for Blizzard to stop KeSPA from creating and broadcasting their own SC2 league in Korea. So again, Blizzard has absolutely no leverage within the international boundaries of Korea in regard to this situation simply because the laws regarding intellectual property are not the same as a country such as the United States. You have to stop thinking of intellectual property rights as a foregone conclusion in order to understand the business maneuvering that's going on here...

Please understand that I'm being very specific and talking about only Korea here. Of course if it turns out that the international pro-scene becomes stronger than the Korean pro-scene, Blizzard will then have some leverage assuming that they are in control of the international scene. But this is something that only time will tell and also the reason I feel Blizzard should focus on this instead of trying to get KeSPA to roll over..


They would need to use cracks... All pro teams and players, referees, all broadcasting channels and even the poor observers, would have to use a cracked version of SC2, on plain sight, hell, on TV even. The government would have to turn a blind eye to it all. Would KeSPA, no the Korean Government look good, by allowing such a massive use of a cracked piece of software? It wouldn't be just about broadcasting anymore, it would mean no software vendor would be safe in korea anymore. If the government is to allow KeSPA and related individuals to run a cracked SC2, then why not allow everyone to run any type of pirated software? The software industry would instantly tank as a whole. Every vendor is going to be out of SK overnight.


Do you watch professional Brood War? They already use hacks. They display real-time resource and unit statistics in the bottom left (on at least one of the channels - can't recall atm). Unlike the software TL uses for their broadcast replays, this is done live, so it cannot be done without some sort of hack.
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