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On May 06 2010 16:03 LuDwig- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 07:30 Waxangel wrote:
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
What should mean this? That the game license will last a year and after we have to pay for another game licence? This point is not clear at all.
No, it's the contract term between KeSPA and Blizzard, nothing to do with you.
It means the contract details and agreements will be set for 1 year, and must be adhered to. After 1 year either party will be allowed to change/revise the contract details. It means Blizzard, if we look at this negatively, will be allowed to increase their fees or set more conditions every year.
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In my eyes Blizzard lost a lot of quality when Blizzard North left. BurningCrusade was pretty bad already don't even want to talk about Wotlk. Casual here, casual there.
It's not at all the same company which made our beloved broodwar. I don't even want to get started about E-sport and Blizzard. Just leave Kespa alone Blizzard!
Of course they should have the right to make some profits from the sc2 pro scene if there will be one in Korea.
But they shouldn't be controlling all aspects of the sc2 esport.
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Kespa will fail in the end, there is nothing they can do about SC2. If Blizzard puts in a rule that forbids anyone to broadcast SC2 without their approval it's gg Kespa. No one can do anything about it. As for SC1 things are much more complicated.
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On May 06 2010 22:14 fallingdream wrote:
Kespa will fail in the end, there is nothing they can do about SC2. If Blizzard puts in a rule that forbids anyone to broadcast SC2 without their approval it's gg Kespa. No one can do anything about it. As for SC1 things are much more complicated.
Assuming SC2 turns out to be a success...
Atm don't find SC2 terribly exciting to spectate.
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On May 06 2010 22:26 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 22:14 fallingdream wrote:
Kespa will fail in the end, there is nothing they can do about SC2. If Blizzard puts in a rule that forbids anyone to broadcast SC2 without their approval it's gg Kespa. No one can do anything about it. As for SC1 things are much more complicated. Assuming SC2 turns out to be a success... Atm don't find SC2 terribly exciting to spectate.
Yeah, I don't really like SC2. Teamliquid is pretty divided, and I doubt South Korea overwhelmingly wants SC2.
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preping to kill of bw and implement sc2
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I've fumbled through this thread more than once to see if anyone would ever draw the correlation between organizations like the MLB and the broadcasters that carry their games. So far... none. You think CBS, etc. just get to broadcast baseball without forking over cash to the company that controls the sport?
Granted, in some cases KeSPA is similar to the both the MLB and CBS in this example; however, Bliz is entirely the MLB. If you notice, Bliz says "intellectual property rights". This doesn't strictly mean right to broadcast. Generally, it means the right use use a license and its materials in a manner that benefits the license and grows the brand. For the most part, KeSPA isn't that friendly or active here.They use what they want, in any way they want, regardless of how it benefits SC or Bliz, and they do it for free. There's no other model like this and Bliz is within their rights to be miffed about it.
People seem to want to cry foul about Bliz doing this for money, but there's to faults to this. First, really... do you really think there's that much money floating in eSports? Compared to the cash pissing cow that is WoW, the SC eSports scene isn't even 1% (given what Bliz would want in terms of license fees). The issue is how KeSPA matures the brand and grows the product, for most part, they don't.
What's more, is KeSPA has more than once tried to use the mindshare they've garnered from SC and sought to develop competing software (i.e. remove Bliz from the equation); in every turn it has failed because they lack the knowhow to pull it off. KeSPA has proven more than once their motivations are not the well-being of SC, but rather, the well being of KeSPA. However, Bliz is very vested in the well being of SC, which will in-turn, provide some well-being for Bliz (I say some because let's face it... WoW). Which do you want running the show? No brainer.
In all honesty, KeSPA refusing to budge is going to severely harm eSports. Bliz is wise to demand proper licensing and will likely hold their stance. KeSPA seems likely to fracture the community merely to spite the situation and ultimately kill everything. SC works because it has achieved a mass that can grow and sustain; if that fractures into two smaller masses (SC, SC2), then it isn't known if one can be self-sustaining like SC currently is.
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On May 07 2010 01:22 sk` wrote:
In all honesty, KeSPA refusing to budge is going to severely harm eSports. Bliz is wise to demand proper licensing and will likely hold their stance. KeSPA seems likely to fracture the community merely to spite the situation and ultimately kill everything. SC works because it has achieved a mass that can grow and sustain; if that fractures into two smaller masses (SC, SC2), then it isn't known if one can be self-sustaining like SC currently is.
KeSPA doesn't and can't kill everything even if they tried
nor can Blizzard.
KeSPA deciding not to play starcraft 2 doesn't destroy anything
Blizzard not allowing KeSPA to play starcraft 2 doesn't destroy anything
but I agree with the rest of your post
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I do not understand why Blizzard is being so harsh. Licensing, royalties, junk. Do you pay a company every time you use a camera or editing software, besides the initial cost of the product? Why should they have to? They bought it and it is theirs. What Blizzard is trying to do is wrong.
People make money using editing software to make commercials, are you paying royalties or licensing fees? Of course not, what would be the point if there was no profit. KeSPA is constantly promoting their product and showing people (of Korea) how great it is. It's free advertising and Blizzard is blindly pushing them into something they obviously do not want to do, thus losing advertisement and fan base. If they get sponsors, great. It is because of the initial work Blizzard has done on the game, but with no one playing the game there would be no sponsors, and without that no more publicity. I can't say that Blizzard needs KeSPA, but KeSPA does in fact need Blizzard. I think this is the main cause of the problem.
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You pay licensing fees for the product you use and that license defines what you can and cannot do with the product, a lot of licenses require paying more if your company's turnover exceeds X&X too. Not to mention that it's completely unrelated to the issue of IP rights and licensing of those, the art, themes and content of the game are Blizzard's property and they have the right to stop any unauthorised use of those as long as it's demonstrably theirs. Regardless of Blizzard being complete wangs who are apparently trying to take over korean progaming with the same arrogance as some of their SC2 design decisions, their rights in this case are clear and there for a reason that protects many many many companies that aren't complete wangs.
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On May 07 2010 02:08 cll wrote:
I can't say that Blizzard needs KeSPA, but KeSPA does in fact need Blizzard. I think this is the main cause of the problem.
Yes, starcraft being the best esports game and all.
There is no right or wrong in business however. Besides maybe pulling a gun, fraud etc..
You sign it, you right it
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2010 01:22 sk` wrote:
I've fumbled through this thread more than once to see if anyone would ever draw the correlation between organizations like the MLB and the broadcasters that carry their games. So far... none. You think CBS, etc. just get to broadcast baseball without forking over cash to the company that controls the sport?
Granted, in some cases KeSPA is similar to the both the MLB and CBS in this example; however, Bliz is entirely the MLB. If you notice, Bliz says "intellectual property rights". This doesn't strictly mean right to broadcast. Generally, it means the right use use a license and its materials in a manner that benefits the license and grows the brand. For the most part, KeSPA isn't that friendly or active here.They use what they want, in any way they want, regardless of how it benefits SC or Bliz, and they do it for free. There's no other model like this and Bliz is within their rights to be miffed about it.
Don't think this correlation is suitable for Blizzard and KeSPA. Blizzard is the developer of SC software, so its rule is more like people who invented baseball. Blizzard didn't create the progamer leagues nor did Blizzard set the models for progaming tourneys in Korea. KeSPA did. I would say KeSPA's rule is more like MLB. One problem is we don't need to use special tools made and copyright owned by one company to play baseball.
KeSPA is not a TV station and it doesn't broadcast games. MBC and OGN do the broadcast. (FYI: OGN is owned by Blizzard's sub company.)
KeSPA is an association represent all progame teams in Korea. It's like a labor union in legal stand.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2010 01:22 sk` wrote:
What's more, is KeSPA has more than once tried to use the mindshare they've garnered from SC and sought to develop competing software (i.e. remove Bliz from the equation); in every turn it has failed because they lack the knowhow to pull it off. KeSPA has proven more than once their motivations are not the well-being of SC, but rather, the well being of KeSPA. However, Bliz is very vested in the well being of SC, which will in-turn, provide some well-being for Bliz (I say some because let's face it... WoW). Which do you want running the show? No brainer.
In all honesty, KeSPA refusing to budge is going to severely harm eSports. Bliz is wise to demand proper licensing and will likely hold their stance. KeSPA seems likely to fracture the community merely to spite the situation and ultimately kill everything. SC works because it has achieved a mass that can grow and sustain; if that fractures into two smaller masses (SC, SC2), then it isn't known if one can be self-sustaining like SC currently is.
Don't know where you get that idea from. But KeSPA is not a software developer so they don't need to develop competing software. Though KeSPA's decisions are not always good to the e-sport, just like every government's decisions are not always good to the country. But what Blizzard care is their software products not the e-sport environment.
In Blizzard's requests, KeSPA has to agree not 1 or 2 demands but all 5 of the demands first, then Blizzard will start negation for other issues. Doesn't anyone feel strange and unfair that Blizzard demand for the Right to audit KeSPA? Usually, people audit their own companies and their sub-companies. Blizzard doesn't own KeSPA. How come KeSPA would allow this?
Blizzard has already asking license fee. It's not fair for Blizzard to also ask Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos. Blizzard create game softwares, but it didn't create the programs such as "NalrA's Oldboy" nor "Hyungjun becomes a progamer!". How about the people whose ideas create these shows?
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I thought OGN was bought out by CJ Media.
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lol all the sudden blizzard cares about broodwar they haven't done anything since they killed the ladder. Fans, Iccup, world tour, kespa etc are all that kept broodwar alive since 2003 and now its 2010 and all the sudden blizzard gives a shit lol. Blizzard shut up and go back to your sc2 and let the fans play the real game.
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funny, I don't know how factual this is. This came from Mickeytoss's post on Baezzi's channel (Jon747). If this is true, you guys should stop buying whatever bs the koreans are selling.
MickeyToss (6 hours ago)
Summary: Blizzard wants to get payed for having their product being used by an external company which on its own makes me money from using Blizzards product.
Kespa says "no, We do not want to pay you money or let you control the way we use your game."
Blizzard says "yes you will, otherwise you can consider the negotiations over and you will not be allowed to use starcraft to make money or create a e-sport scene around it."
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Blizzard asking for more money is only gonna have negative effects on the E-sports scene. I mean even if KESPA complies, KESPA is not gonna just be idiots and make less money. They'll either make the prizes smaller, or charge admissions, or other things like that to make up for the money they'll have to give to blizzard. Which means that all the FREE SERVICE we get, like getting to watch these games for free, having TONS of fans, etc etc, will hurt first.... the OGN website is free right now to watch games online, but the MBC website already is charging money for "older" games.
Since KESPA people are in no way idiots when it comes to financial business, they'll just make OGN and MBC pay them, or make the teams pay them more which eventually will end up hurting the fans. which is... all of us.
That is my opinion economically... Now if you wanna ask the whole who's is "right" at first I sure as hell thought blizzard deserves a cut, in some way... but then again, KESPA does buy the game from them in the first place for as much as blizzard charges. I mean if i take C++ and make a program out of it and sell it, do I have to pay the company who made C++ money? Not really......
that's just my 2 cents....
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Russian Federation405 Posts
On May 07 2010 09:05 Zeridian wrote:
funny, I don't know how factual this is. This came from Mickeytoss's post on Baezzi's channel (Jon747). If this is true, you guys should stop buying whatever bs the koreans are selling.
MickeyToss (6 hours ago)
Summary: Blizzard wants to get payed for having their product being used by an external company which on its own makes me money from using Blizzards product.
Kespa says "no, We do not want to pay you money or let you control the way we use your game."
Blizzard says "yes you will, otherwise you can consider the negotiations over and you will not be allowed to use starcraft to make money or create a e-sport scene around it."
It’s not true at all!
Check OP, please:KeSPA has expressed its position of being willing to pay for a rational level of usage fee and appeal its support of marketing and promotion for product line-up of Blizzard with continuous investment such as sharing all contents which belong to KeSPA like pro gamers, broadcasting and sponsorship. or old variant:The association promised Blizzard the continued marketing and promotional support of their products through the use of all our resources including players, teams and broadcasting, and constant investment including the obtainment of sponsorships, as well as expressing an interest in paying a reasonable usage fee for their products.
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um... I already know that.
It's just you're reading directly from the korean press, whereas I don't know the real deal on blizzards side. I just thought a Korean stating that it was faulty should come on somewhat strongly. Especially someone that was part of broadcasting professional interviews (mickeytoss).
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ugh e-sports needs to stop being politics
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On May 07 2010 09:26 TossNub wrote:
Blizzard asking for more money is only gonna have negative effects on the E-sports scene. I mean even if KESPA complies, KESPA is not gonna just be idiots and make less money. They'll either make the prizes smaller, or charge admissions, or other things like that to make up for the money they'll have to give to blizzard. Which means that all the FREE SERVICE we get, like getting to watch these games for free, having TONS of fans, etc etc, will hurt first.... the OGN website is free right now to watch games online, but the MBC website already is charging money for "older" games.
Since KESPA people are in no way idiots when it comes to financial business, they'll just make OGN and MBC pay them, or make the teams pay them more which eventually will end up hurting the fans. which is... all of us.
That is my opinion economically...
You're right but, it's going to be up to KeSPA if they think they can profit more on SC2 (comparing to bw) even w\ the royalties. If not, there's no point to transitioning right? They just play safe w\ BW and hope people don't grow tired of BW, which can happen.
I don't think KeSPA will want to make a bad deal then break in the process (underpaying players, staff, broadcasters, overcharging sponsors). They'll only do it if they feel they can handle the load.
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EPT
