|
United States43186 Posts
On November 05 2009 14:56 resonance wrote:
Yes apm is important. Ignore the stories of people who say "oh well there is this one B+ guy with only 100 apm". There may be one of him but for every one of him there are 200 others at his level.
Though your apm is simply too low to compete. Don't even bother with saying "I can max at 250-300" because if you are 60 apm more than likely you are spamming that. Average EAPM is really what's important in terms of APM.
Just get a good hotkey set up (day9's podcast on mechanics) and your apm will improve slowly.
This simply didn't happen in the years I've been playing. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but when mass gaming my apm never really went up, despite my skill level increasing.
|
BUT FISHEYE ONLY HAS 100 APM AND HE IS THE KING OF STARCRAFT
|
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
For example i got apm like 170-200 depending of duration of game and mu and i have beaten some guys with 400 apm and lost to some guys with 100. My rank is around B-/B
There are players like Kwark who has like around 100 apm and he is like B rank player and Drone who have like 150 apm and he is B+/A- easy. Apm is not what it matters its how well you use your apm with your brain power which is much more important than spaming useless actions.
As other ppl said apm will come with experience and improving your game. My apm when i first time checked on bwchart was 110-130 average and now im 170-200. Some ppl are slow on hands and they cant do anything to improve while not affecting their game. I have tried to play on around 250 apm but it affects my game that i play so bad so it doesnt matter.
So just train to get better and not to get high apm this is not you can get in really short time. If your game understanding and mechanics improve so it will your apm.
|
On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ. APM is much more matchup dependent imo. Protoss can manage with around 200 apm at higher levels, especially PvT and PvP.
Terran will not play TvZ well with 150 apm, but he might do okay in TvT. Chances are he gets rolled in TvP because he is too slow and reacts too slow.
Strong, fast zerg macro off multiple bases requires more than 150 APM at a high level.
at PRO level, as in being really good, you will need at least 250 APM and preferrably closer to 300, in order to utilize every single unit and thing you need to do in the game. (From a terran's point of view)
|
On November 06 2009 04:00 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ.
Its possible if both are really at some skill lvl ... You cant win a good korean tvz even if you have 400 apm and your max rank is B- and he is A. So i dont get your nonsense quote.
|
United States3824 Posts
As important as this thread is?
|
On November 06 2009 04:00 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ. APM is much more matchup dependent imo. Protoss can manage with around 200 apm at higher levels, especially PvT and PvP. Terran will not play TvZ well with 150 apm, but he might do okay in TvT. Chances are he gets rolled in TvP because he is too slow and reacts too slow. Strong, fast zerg macro off multiple bases requires more than 150 APM at a high level.
150 might be on the line but there are progamer terrans with 200-ish apm like SEri[ScM] from SKT1.
|
On November 06 2009 04:04 SkelA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 04:00 Foucault wrote:On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ. Its possible if both are really at some skill lvl ... You cant win a good korean tvz even if you have 400 apm and your max rank is B- and he is A. So i dont get your nonsense quote.
Yeah and you won't even get to B- playing koreans TvZ with 150 apm.
|
On November 06 2009 04:05 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 04:00 Foucault wrote:On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ. APM is much more matchup dependent imo. Protoss can manage with around 200 apm at higher levels, especially PvT and PvP. Terran will not play TvZ well with 150 apm, but he might do okay in TvT. Chances are he gets rolled in TvP because he is too slow and reacts too slow. Strong, fast zerg macro off multiple bases requires more than 150 APM at a high level. 150 might be on the line but there are progamer terrans with 200-ish apm like SEri[ScM] from SKT1.
200-ish apm is maybe more like 220 or something (which is quite a bit from 150), which can work but is still very low for a pro-terran. Most pro terrans are around 300 apm. Might be a reason why I've never heard of the guy before either, because he sucks.
|
On November 06 2009 04:05 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 04:04 SkelA wrote:On November 06 2009 04:00 Foucault wrote:On November 06 2009 03:59 SkelA wrote:
Apm doesnt really matter but you need at least 150 apm to play at a lvl to compete with high rank players.
Good luck having 150 apm against a good korean amateur TvZ. Its possible if both are really at some skill lvl ... You cant win a good korean tvz even if you have 400 apm and your max rank is B- and he is A. So i dont get your nonsense quote. Yeah and you won't even get to B- playing koreans TvZ with 150 apm.
Maybe i wont but there are lot of good players that can 150 apm is for an average sc player even when i play terran my apm is 200 which is at least 20+ of my normal apm. All ppl know that terran need highest apm to play so i terran needs maybe like 180-200 apm
|
A lot of it is not only how many keys you can press for no reason, game sense and understanding are quite important. Take Savoir, he dosen't have 400 APM like Jaedong or anyone but he absolutley dominated the Starcraft world because he was just so good, his game sense and command were at such a high level that with sub-300 APM he was the best player in the world.
Your APM level dosen't matter once you're reached the point where you are playing fast enough that you can do everything you want and need to do in the game without being constrained by the speed of your hands. But 67 (sub 250-ish) APM is not all that common in really good players because it does not really allow them to preform to their best.
|
Generally:
Low APM ==> low rank
High APM =/=> high rank
Efficient use of my 60 APM means I've never lost a game to a D- player, but I also know I won't be able to get higher than D+. It's just too slow for sufficient micro and multitasking.
|
APM is like weigth in fighting sport.
Sure bruce lee with his 60kg can beat most of 100kg people, but with same skill, heavier guy win.
|
On November 06 2009 04:19 bITt.mAN wrote:
A lot of it is not only how many keys you can press for no reason, game sense and understanding are quite important. Take Savoir, he dosen't have 400 APM like Jaedong or anyone but he absolutley dominated the Starcraft world because he was just so good, his game sense and command were at such a high level that with sub-300 APM he was the best player in the world.
Your APM level dosen't matter once you're reached the point where you are playing fast enough that you can do everything you want and need to do in the game without being constrained by the speed of your hands. But 67 (sub 250-ish) APM is not all that common in really good players because it does not really allow them to preform to their best.
I dont think anyone is fast enough to do everything they want...
|
Are you kidding? APM and Dino in one place?
This thread is awesome.
|
On November 06 2009 04:28 loupouk wrote:
APM is like weigth in fighting sport.
Sure bruce lee with his 60kg can beat most of 100kg people, but with same skill, heavier guy win.
Unless the heavier guy is real real fat and has no muscles, then it would look like Bruce Lee beating a walrus.
I´ve fought my 70-80 ish EAPM to 110 and while it has some effect I think the overall "presence" in the game is what has developed and helped most.
|
There is a general consensus among high-level players that there is in fact a minimum threshold of APM in order to compete at highest levels of play. The threshold is going to be different depending on what race you are, and what strategy you're employing. For example, if you're protoss you can generally get away with lower apm, since protoss requires least amount of actions for macro, and can fit 100+ supply into 4 ctrl groups. Meanwhile, if you're playing SK Terran against zerg, you're going to need probably at least 200 apm in order to properly control your m&m/vessels. And as others have stated, trying to control a late-game zerg army while maintaining proper macro of 6-7 hatches spread across 5 bases is indeed action-heavy and will take fast hands to execute correctly.
Now, at the lower levels, D- all the way up to B+, APM doesn't mean that much. Lots of people spam uselessly, and people who have been playing a long time know how to maximize the effectiveness of their actions, and can get up to B-/B/B+ with sub-150 apm.
You said you were at 67, I'm pretty sure this is well below the threshold for playing well at higher-levels for any race, even protoss. Assuming you're not spamming, anything less than 100 apm means there is probably something more you could be doing.
|
If you are happy with your current speed, there's nothing bad with that, I would recommend not to try push the higher apm out of yourself spamming everywhere etc., just because it's pointless. However as you will improve (and I hope you will), you will find that it's very hard to do so many things at the same time, so you will try to do them faster and faster, to have time for everything, and as result your apm will increase.
|
The majority of people over C rank will have over 150 APM.
That is probably something you can maybe relate too. Apm below 100 is garbage. Also the whole APM =! Skill is a lie, because if you were to average all the APM of players and create a chart with their iccup rank, the APM will increase with rank.
That being said, there are certainly exceptions to the rule. I have 180-220 APM as a C+ Protoss, and about 130-150 or so EAPM I think. Which in my opinion is pretty average for my rank. One thing is for sure, if you TRY to increase your apm, it will go up faster than if you just keep playing.
Try to play faster than you do comfortably, and although you make mistakes, you will eventually become comfortable with it. Although this doesnt work indefinetly, it could probably get you up to 150-200. Once your at that area, you can relax on the APM, unless you are terran, you might want more high 100's low 200's.
|
Its more about how much you do with it. Think of APM as tasks. The more APM you have, the more stuff you can do, untill you finally don't have anything else to do (300 apm). As you get better, you realize all the different things you have to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
