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United States22883 Posts
On August 08 2010 16:43 intrudor wrote:
Excellent points Mr.Hoon.
...they must explain a big part of the picture....but then again....the major driving force behind a particular game's inherent success or failure is; the Gameplay.
Gameplay is king. Let's face it ....Starcraft 2's actual GAME is just not as fun as its glorious predecessor, and that explains the state of things in Korea right now. If SC2's gameplay was as glorious as SC:BW, believe me, all the reasons you listed would have been insignificant.
False.
Sudden Attack does far better in Korea than 1.6.
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idc if koreans play or not, from what i have seen they have been over hyped. The 'foreign' scene is doing pretty for themselves its not like having 40 more people spending 7+ hours a day is going to make the game better to watch for me
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Good points Mr.Hoon.
However, I think it's to early to tell yet if its a success or not. I'm willing to give GOMTV a chance. And after that we can start bashing the channel. After all, its a whole new game.
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Well, that certainly explains a lot and sheds light on the subject O.O. Awesome article!
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To be honest, this is the work of Activision...
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Blizzard and KESPA have long standing bad blood that couldn't be fixed, Blizzard stayed that they disliked KESPA recieving royalties for televised games while Blizzard did not, this was not a situation that was going to end well for KESPA or Blizzard but was pretty much decided by a few actions in the past.
Starcraft 2 simply isn't demanding on hardware at all and is well within expected hardware of just about any computer made in the last maybe 4 years. If that's how out of date the average Korean's computer is then they can barely run modern operating systems, that can't be faulted by Blizzard at all.
I don't see how 'e-sports' are being put too far ahead of other elements. They have a league system but it obviously varies in skill greatly, custom maps and single player. Only one of those 'segments' of the game could be considered esports and even then only because of a league system that's supposed to match you against your equals.
Also, the argument that somehow driving for an esports following somehow took away from the gameplay isn't supported at all
A lot of the points of this article can easily be viewed as unjustified criticisms of Blizzard, a lot of the arguments can't really be addressed by Blizzard(loyalty to a national organization that has a history of doing things that Blizzard can't accept, computer hardware being out of date, and perceptions of the nature of the game that I'm not sure how many could assume because there's no real basis in fact for the esports over gameplay argument)
The LAN argument is the strongest but Blizzard has still attempted to reach out to the LAN community as much as possible(beta access, etc) but if that one thing could change it all then there would be a flaw in marketing any new game to Korean consumers that had a high production cost in that case
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Numero Uno” : Blizzard's bad decision
As some of you know SC2 PR in Korea is huge. If you go to central seoul, almost every electronic billboard has their own “SC2” time. There are posters everywhere and every single bus has a huge SC2 logo painted onto it. Blizzard seems like they just flew a plane straight through seoul and bombarded seoul with SC2 Stickers. Blizzard is just all-inning PR in Korea in hopes of getting it through people. I guarantee you if Blizzard did this to any other country in the world, everyone would buy it. But not Korea... Why?
Blizzard does NOT understand how large of an impact Kespa has over the Korean community. Blizzard's split between Kespa was their first biggest mistake. Look I know how we all hate Kespa for being stupid and all, but seriously guys? Starcraft is ONLY 10 years old. For a sport to have such a pillar like Kespa is an amazing feat. Deny all you want, but Kespa knows how to do their job. Every sport has their sacrifices, don't be a 12 year old ragging idiot to not admit to this. Kespa has run the SC scene for 10 years, and yes there were some hiccups, but overall it went smoothly. For a company who made a sprite based RTS into an Esport, you have to give these guys credit.
So Blizzard pisses Kespa off and now they're partnering with GOMTV... Haha...
Hey remember when Atari made the Jaguar to compete with Super Nintendo and the Sega Genesis? GOMTV is the Atari Jaguar of Korea, they suck and I'm sorry if you feel bad about it.
To say it like that is simplifying a complicated evolution. Starcraft got big in Korea due to all the hardcore gamers playing SC who then turned into pro-gamers and fans. Kespa as an entity merely were the ones who stepped in and rode the tidal wave into being main stream. To thank KESPA for making pro-gaming is kinda a joke because they were only a small peice of a big puzzle. There had to be someone to do what KESPA did, so yeah they were smart and deserve some credit for taking the scene by the reigns persay, but to say KESPA knows how to do their job is ludacris.
The reality is KESPA is ran by a bunch of stubborn idiots who really have no idea what they are doing. If they knew what they were doing they would have dealt with Blizzard a long time ago and not do stupid things like setup meetings with Blizzard to discuss issues then just completely stand up the CEO when he arrived in Korea, or make absurd demands. There is ALOT more to the backstory of KESPA/Blizzard relations that no one knows about.
None of the casual fans (people who could possibly buy SC2 and who watch/play SC1) care or even know about KESPA much, if at all.
The problem Blizzard has with KESPA is of course OGN/MBC/Pro-teams. If Blizzard had that portal to advertise through at the moment obviously success would be huge. Obviously if Blizzard didn't take the necessary steps to negotiate to KESPA's demands to get these portals there is something much bigger going on than people realize, and Blizzard has their reasons for it.
The order should not be Esport → Everyone get's all competitive → Even my mom plays SC2!
NO! It should be the other fucking way around
Even my mom plays SC2! → Everyone get's all competitive → ESPORTSSSSSSSSS
Yeah, you're kinda right, but I think Blizzard realizes it doesn't really matter. While Blizzard's advertising in Korea seems to suggest they are trying to sell it like a new movie box-office opening weekend, which is dumb, there is more at play.
First of all, even if they don't sell everyone copies of their new game right away, one thing they do is plant it in their memories for later. Secondly Koreans are totally fad-oriented. So what if it wasn't what they hoped and the fad began as soon as the game out, that doesn't mean it still can't happen later. Also, SC2/GOMTV will be huge, whether you like their commentators or not. And most importantly, SC2 Esports will be huge outside of Korea 100%...this is the game that everyone has been waiting for to make an esport. If it becomes huge outside of Korea that means more big korean companies will want to get involved and the game will eventually become mainstream as it creeps into Korea. If there's one thing I've learned about Koreans is they have their national pride and everyone can instantly start loving something they had no previous knowledge of before (this has been demonstrated time and time again with olympics and yes I realize you can't really compare gaming to olympics realistically but it does show the Koreans' incliations). Imagine a Korean team winning the first worldwide tournament. Blizzard will be saying 'Gg KESPA' as shelves at gamestores are emptied. Or imagine Blizzard getting some key names like Boxer to abandon ties to KESPA and go on a massive advertising campaign for SC2.
The possibilies are endless for Blizzard in the world/korea market of ESPORTS, while for KESPA all they have left are alliances with the current SC1 ESPORTS world which certainly won't last forever.
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Good article, but I gotta say this.
Most koreans I've talked to says the game sucks.
I don't think it gets any more complicated than that.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On August 08 2010 17:19 Rekrul wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Numero Uno” : Blizzard's bad decision
As some of you know SC2 PR in Korea is huge. If you go to central seoul, almost every electronic billboard has their own “SC2” time. There are posters everywhere and every single bus has a huge SC2 logo painted onto it. Blizzard seems like they just flew a plane straight through seoul and bombarded seoul with SC2 Stickers. Blizzard is just all-inning PR in Korea in hopes of getting it through people. I guarantee you if Blizzard did this to any other country in the world, everyone would buy it. But not Korea... Why?
Blizzard does NOT understand how large of an impact Kespa has over the Korean community. Blizzard's split between Kespa was their first biggest mistake. Look I know how we all hate Kespa for being stupid and all, but seriously guys? Starcraft is ONLY 10 years old. For a sport to have such a pillar like Kespa is an amazing feat. Deny all you want, but Kespa knows how to do their job. Every sport has their sacrifices, don't be a 12 year old ragging idiot to not admit to this. Kespa has run the SC scene for 10 years, and yes there were some hiccups, but overall it went smoothly. For a company who made a sprite based RTS into an Esport, you have to give these guys credit.
So Blizzard pisses Kespa off and now they're partnering with GOMTV... Haha...
Hey remember when Atari made the Jaguar to compete with Super Nintendo and the Sega Genesis? GOMTV is the Atari Jaguar of Korea, they suck and I'm sorry if you feel bad about it. To say it like that is simplifying a complicated evolution. Starcraft got big in Korea due to all the hardcore gamers playing SC who then turned into pro-gamers and fans. Kespa as an entity merely were the ones who stepped in and rode the tidal wave into being main stream. To thank KESPA for making pro-gaming is kinda a joke because they were only a small peice of a big puzzle. There had to be someone to do what KESPA did, so yeah they were smart and deserve some credit for taking the scene by the reigns persay, but to say KESPA knows how to do their job is ludacris. The reality is KESPA is ran by a bunch of stubborn idiots who really have no idea what they are doing. If they knew what they were doing they would have dealt with Blizzard a long time ago and not do stupid things like setup meetings with Blizzard to discuss issues then just completely stand up the CEO when he arrived in Korea, or make absurd demands. There is ALOT more to the backstory of KESPA/Blizzard relations that no one knows about. None of the casual fans (people who could possibly buy SC2 and who watch/play SC1) care or even know about KESPA much, if at all. The problem Blizzard has with KESPA is of course OGN/MBC/Pro-teams. If Blizzard had that portal to advertise through at the moment obviously success would be huge. Obviously if Blizzard didn't take the necessary steps to negotiate to KESPA's demands to get these portals there is something much bigger going on than people realize, and Blizzard has their reasons for it. The order should not be Esport → Everyone get's all competitive → Even my mom plays SC2!
NO! It should be the other fucking way around
Even my mom plays SC2! → Everyone get's all competitive → ESPORTSSSSSSSSS Yeah, you're kinda right, but I think Blizzard realizes it doesn't really matter. While Blizzard's advertising in Korea seems to suggest they are trying to sell it like a new movie box-office opening weekend, which is dumb, there is more at play. First of all, even if they don't sell everyone copies of their new game right away, one thing they do is plant it in their memories for later. Secondly Koreans are totally fad-oriented. So what if it wasn't what they hoped and the fad began as soon as the game out, that doesn't mean it still can't happen later. Also, SC2/GOMTV will be huge, whether you like their commentators or not. And most importantly, SC2 Esports will be huge outside of Korea 100%...this is the game that everyone has been waiting for to make an esport. If it becomes huge outside of Korea that means more big korean companies will want to get involved and the game will eventually become mainstream as it creeps into Korea. If there's one thing I've learned about Koreans is they have their national pride and everyone can instantly start loving something they had no previous knowledge of before (this has been demonstrated time and time again with olympics and yes I realize you can't really compare gaming to olympics realistically but it does show the Koreans' incliations). Imagine a Korean team winning the first worldwide tournament. Blizzard will be saying 'Gg KESPA' as shelves at gamestores are emptied. Or imagine Blizzard getting some key names like Boxer to abandon ties to KESPA and go on a massive advertising campaign for SC2. The possibilies are endless for Blizzard in the world/korea market of ESPORTS, while for KESPA all they have left are alliances with the current SC1 ESPORTS world which certainly won't last forever.
thanks for your input to my discussion rekrul, was hoping for someone like you and honesttea to write something in my blog
now, about that backstory... hohoho
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Thanks for summing it up, was entertaining. I've agreed for a while now.
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couldn't have said it better hahaha.
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Thanks MrHoon!
If you don't mind me asking, what is the sense in Korea about the future of BW right now? For instance, the PL finals had a "this could be the last one" feel to it on TL, but mainly because none of us knows what's going on there. Is it one of those things where no one in Korea is worried and we'll definitely another year of Proleague (and a few more OSL/MSL)? Or too early to tell?
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Blizzard drifted from what they originally stood for long ago, they used to be a company of gamers making games for gamers. Now they are a company of profiteers making games to line their wallets. Yes every company wants to turn a profit, but blizzard has really changed their gaming philosophy ever since wow became their primary project.
They want sc2 hyped up and for it to replace BW, because they make royalties on every sc2 tourney if that is the case. Despite the fact that at the very top level I think many neutral parties would agree BW deserves to be a professional esport more than SC2.
SC2 was designed for mass appeal, it is very casual friendly, so if the majority of koreans aren't hardcore at all that would actually be a good selling point for them, however, there is the graphics issue that mrhoon brings up.
I don't mind blizzard monopolizing esports with their titles, as long as they actually put effort into making those titles legitimate esport games.
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very good blog with a sad story.
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Good to hear more about this, thanks.
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Blizzard should have invested that PR in the Western countries.
With what you said, it feels that there's more chances of SC2 becoming an esport here than over there. So why bother?
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rekrul saved the thread imo.
And wheres artosis when u need him.
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That asian section might be the most blatantly racist thing I have read on TL outside of General Forum.
Seriously?
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I agree with what Rekrul said above.
Besides, I agree with some valid points in the OP, but GSL's bad commentary? That's a very trivial problem that I don't know why MrHoon even listed it there cos it made the entire post weaker. GSL was GOM's first starleagues, and now with much more money and experience, commentary is like the easiest thing to fix, seriously.
I don't really get the second point "PR that goes nowhere" too. Mainstream marketing has always been more about building brand recognizability than making direct sales. Putting up a big billboard at a public place won't make everyone seeing it go buy the product instantly, but I think we all understand (and experienced it first hand) the powerful effect of mainstream marketing overtime.
Third point is also not convincing either. Starcraft 2 is more friendly to the hardwares that most blockbuster games releases this year and last. Of course it won't be smooth on every computer now (just like how Starcraft 1 demanded very decent hardwares in 1997), but if you're aiming to make a game that lasts 10 years, what an average computer has in Korea in 2010 probably should not stand in your way. Also the game needs to look pretty to attract the casuals, "the dads and moms" too. So there are win and loss here, and I actually think Blizzard balanced out this hardware-vs-beauty aspect quite well.
Still, much thanks to MrHoon for sharing your 'insider' thought to the matter that I have been curious about, and lol at the drawing haha ^^
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SC2 is not a success in KR? How bad is it?
how many copy have they sold?
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EPT
