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On June 01 2022 03:55 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote:
You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing. Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 15:57 xsnac wrote:On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote:
You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing. it's called being brainwashed. they are all brainwashed. An armed population should not exist, no reason in 2022 for having one, or at least I don't see one. Also, can you imagine they argue about that stupid constitution they have? Some dude wrote a paper 233 years ago and they still do mental gymnastics about how he was right. No wonder they take the bible ad litteram too. Fking hell brother. I wonder, will Americans ever learn that they can be wrong too? It got to a point where it is pure hubris in the detriment of everything. In the real world America as a country is the most successful experiment ever attempted. The reason we are so successful is because we do take our constitution seriously. We do not succeed because we are smarter or taller or harder working or because we have more natural resources or better weather. We succeed because we respect our constitution.
As a law student, I find this section of your argument absolutely hilarious.
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It's still unfathomable for me that school/church/hospital shootings happen on regular basis in a country, and aside from some heated public debate, nothing happens.
Even one of these is so crazy to even think about, and a significant portion of the society acts like it's the price of freedom, or it's for some other commonplace reason, that's present in most other countries, yet without this outcome.
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A few telling stories about guns and schools near Toronto, Canada, perhaps copycat incidents following the wave of high-profile gun violence in the US.
1. Guy shows up at a school with a gun. 6 schools are immediately locked down and the suspect is arrested. Turns out it wasn't even a real gun. Nobody is hurt. Most of the kids (at least the younger ones) don't even know what happened, they were just playing.
2. Guy shows up at a school with a rifle. 4 schools are immediately locked down. One person is killed: the guy with the rifle, by the police. Police actions are being investigated because as it turns out, it wasn't even a real gun. Nobody else is hurt.
3. Two guys show up at a school with a gun making threats. 2 schools are immediately locked down and the suspects are arrested. Turns out it wasn't even a real gun. Nobody is hurt.
Gun regulations work.
Sources: this and linked articles, personal conversation with a parent of some kids at the first school.
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Unpopular opinion; but I do not consider guns to be the central issue, it is the American people and their culture that are.
No country on Earth produces psychopaths/ sociopaths with a frequency anywhere near America's in the modern era.
The worship of money; that financial wealth = greatness.
The notion of the American dream; you too can become a billionaire.
The championing of the individual ego; I am the most important.
The myth of American exceptionalism; this country is special.
The hangover from the red fear; helping others for free looks like communism.
The hero mentality post world war 2; we saved the world and we must save it again.
The idea that education must lead to vocation.
Greed ramped up to the nth degree invading every aspect of life, to the point where corporations and individuals are willing to do ANYTHING TO ANYONE to make money.
The air that you are NO-ONE unless you are rich or famous.
The lack of human empathy in the general day to day world in America.
The stark extremes of severe poverty and egregious wealth.
The romanticised history; the pioneers, the forefathers, the West, the Bill of Rights, contrasting with the murderous, barbarous, cruel, blood strewn history of America.
A country controlled by its defense spending.
The mass commodification of education
An overmedicated populace (both prescription and illicit)
The deification of the president and that the words of a president are truth regardless of reality.
The mass media/ marketing saturation in which alternate facts/ versions of truth/ history thrive.
The fear instilled into the population of the 'other;' African Americans, Mexicans, the Russians, the terrorists, the Russians again, the greens, the socialists, the Chinese, the list goes on.
Incarceration rates that only China can compete with.
Religiosity unmatched in the modern world.
Rampant sexism and the objectification of women
Widespread racism.
Intergenerational trauma from chattel slavery, indiginous genocides and the nationwide poverty from the great depression.
These are just some of the webs into which an American child is born. Hardly fertile ground for creating stable empathetic human beings. I greatly respect any American who can raise an intelligent, thoughtful, empathetic child in such conditions.
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On June 11 2022 14:46 AxiomB wrote:
Unpopular opinion; but I do not consider guns to be the central issue, it is the American people and their culture that are.
No country on Earth produces psychopaths/ sociopaths with a frequency anywhere near America's in the modern era.
The worship of money; that financial wealth = greatness.
The notion of the American dream; you too can become a billionaire.
The championing of the individual ego; I am the most important.
The myth of American exceptionalism; this country is special.
The hangover from the red fear; helping others for free looks like communism.
The hero mentality post world war 2; we saved the world and we must save it again.
The idea that education must lead to vocation.
Greed ramped up to the nth degree invading every aspect of life, to the point where corporations and individuals are willing to do ANYTHING TO ANYONE to make money.
The air that you are NO-ONE unless you are rich or famous.
The lack of human empathy in the general day to day world in America.
The stark extremes of severe poverty and egregious wealth.
The romanticised history; the pioneers, the forefathers, the West, the Bill of Rights, contrasting with the murderous, barbarous, cruel, blood strewn history of America.
A country controlled by its defense spending.
The mass commodification of education
An overmedicated populace (both prescription and illicit)
The deification of the president and that the words of a president are truth regardless of reality.
The mass media/ marketing saturation in which alternate facts/ versions of truth/ history thrive.
The fear instilled into the population of the 'other;' African Americans, Mexicans, the Russians, the terrorists, the Russians again, the greens, the socialists, the Chinese, the list goes on.
Incarceration rates that only China can compete with.
Religiosity unmatched in the modern world.
Rampant sexism and the objectification of women
Widespread racism.
Intergenerational trauma from chattel slavery, indiginous genocides and the nationwide poverty from the great depression.
These are just some of the webs into which an American child is born. Hardly fertile ground for creating stable empathetic human beings. I greatly respect any American who can raise an intelligent, thoughtful, empathetic child in such conditions.
Think that's pretty on point. I don't know how we go about reversing these trends in our culture though. Gun proliferation is at least something that could be legislated against.
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On June 01 2022 03:55 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote:
You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing. Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 15:57 xsnac wrote:On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote:
You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing. it's called being brainwashed. they are all brainwashed. An armed population should not exist, no reason in 2022 for having one, or at least I don't see one. Also, can you imagine they argue about that stupid constitution they have? Some dude wrote a paper 233 years ago and they still do mental gymnastics about how he was right. No wonder they take the bible ad litteram too. Fking hell brother. I wonder, will Americans ever learn that they can be wrong too? It got to a point where it is pure hubris in the detriment of everything. In the real world America as a country is the most successful experiment ever attempted. The reason we are so successful is because we do take our constitution seriously. We do not succeed because we are smarter or taller or harder working or because we have more natural resources or better weather. We succeed because we respect our constitution. While Europe descended into two brutal world wars with Fascists on one side and Communists on the other, it was America that stepped in and set things right. The fact that there is mass immigration into America and not emigration from America further underscores how wonderful America is. While the Fascists and Communists restricted religious worship, it was the American Bible thumpers who showed up to rescue everyone. Do not be so dismissive towards those who take the Bible seriously. When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers. The whole security of free people in Europe right now rests on their confidence that Americans will come defend them if their government or another government becomes despotic. This sort of thing seems highly unlikely to younger folks, but I lived through dictatorships in Europe. Romania spent decades as a communist dictatorship during my lifetime. Dictatorships happen and that is when the people need weapons. If you believe that this could no longer happen because "the internet" or for any other reason, then please consider the state of Democracy in Russia and China. By entrusting your security to American politicians you are showing a degrees of naivete and subservience that we are unwilling to. Politicians are politicians and American politicians are no better than the rest of the world. The difference is that our constitution prevents any single politician from accumulating much power. Citizens from smaller countries in Europe may assume they can simply flee if things turn bad in their home country, but if things turn bad in America, I don't know where 350M people can flee to. The most recent school shooting occurred on government property at a government school with government security and government police and yet the government sat there for 90 minutes and let a sicko kill children. That right there should tell you how much the government cares about our security. The best way to protect yourself is to protect yourself. You may be concerned that guns cause the murders. The data do not back you up. Non-Hispanic White Americans are the most well armed people in the world, but their murder rate is quite low. It currently sits around 2 per 100,000. Our most populous neighbor, Mexico, sits at 29. The EU sits at 3. So non-Hispanic White Americans commit murders at lower rates than Europeans despite being far better armed. Guns are not causing the murders. American states and cities have in the past been granted broad powers to restrict gun ownership. During the 1970s - 1990s Washington, DC mostly banned fire arms and watched in terror as its murder rate became the worst in the nation. Meanwhile, rural America, which has the highest per capita gun ownership in the world, has an extremely low murder rate. If you Europeans wish to disarm yourselves and let the big dogs like America, China, Japan and Russia do with you what we will then that is your right, but do not expect us to follow your lead and don't say we didn't warn you when the governments of America, China, Russia and Japan are less benevolent than you expect.
This is nuts. The Constitution is great for its time but it has incredibly glaring flaws. You know its messed up because when we nation build, do we use our own constitution? No, we give them something else because there's a lot of archaic things that make our system not work.
"The following ten states have the highest gun deaths per capita (per 100,000): Alaska (24.4), Mississippi (24.2), Wyoming (22.3), New Mexico (22.3), Alabama (22.2), Louisiana (22.1), Missouri (20.6), South Carolina (19.9), Arkansas (19.3), and Montana (19.3)."
I'm not sure where you're getting this idea of rural states are safe from gun violence unless you're looking at just raw #s instead of per capita.
I don't follow why you're bringing up non-Hispanic white American gun crime rates, unless you're saying that other types of Americans gun crimes somehow don't count or matter?
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On June 12 2022 02:20 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2022 14:46 AxiomB wrote:
Unpopular opinion; but I do not consider guns to be the central issue, it is the American people and their culture that are.
No country on Earth produces psychopaths/ sociopaths with a frequency anywhere near America's in the modern era.
The worship of money; that financial wealth = greatness.
The notion of the American dream; you too can become a billionaire.
The championing of the individual ego; I am the most important.
The myth of American exceptionalism; this country is special.
The hangover from the red fear; helping others for free looks like communism.
The hero mentality post world war 2; we saved the world and we must save it again.
The idea that education must lead to vocation.
Greed ramped up to the nth degree invading every aspect of life, to the point where corporations and individuals are willing to do ANYTHING TO ANYONE to make money.
The air that you are NO-ONE unless you are rich or famous.
The lack of human empathy in the general day to day world in America.
The stark extremes of severe poverty and egregious wealth.
The romanticised history; the pioneers, the forefathers, the West, the Bill of Rights, contrasting with the murderous, barbarous, cruel, blood strewn history of America.
A country controlled by its defense spending.
The mass commodification of education
An overmedicated populace (both prescription and illicit)
The deification of the president and that the words of a president are truth regardless of reality.
The mass media/ marketing saturation in which alternate facts/ versions of truth/ history thrive.
The fear instilled into the population of the 'other;' African Americans, Mexicans, the Russians, the terrorists, the Russians again, the greens, the socialists, the Chinese, the list goes on.
Incarceration rates that only China can compete with.
Religiosity unmatched in the modern world.
Rampant sexism and the objectification of women
Widespread racism.
Intergenerational trauma from chattel slavery, indiginous genocides and the nationwide poverty from the great depression.
These are just some of the webs into which an American child is born. Hardly fertile ground for creating stable empathetic human beings. I greatly respect any American who can raise an intelligent, thoughtful, empathetic child in such conditions.
Think that's pretty on point. I don't know how we go about reversing these trends in our culture though. Gun proliferation is at least something that could be legislated against.
I hope for the best and sincerely believe the changes will come from the people. I believe in Americans, they have a 'can do' attitude that is inspirational.
Forgive me, the religiosity is America's own style. Naturally countries like Indonesia (the most populated muslim country) have more religious members.
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School shootings were never even 'a thing' until Columbine 20yr ago. School shootings didn't happen in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s ... Putting in more and more rules limiting legal access to guns doesn't make much difference to the people acquiring guns illegally (contraband, smuggled, or because they wouldn't clear background checks).
But let's talk about adding more rules. Ok, which rules? A reasoned discussion needs to be aware of bias. Most often, people are not aware of their own team's bias. Particularly the bias that comes from hearing and publishing comments by one-sided full-time activists.
This and this are humorous and entertaining articles, worth your time to skim, showing how easy and how common it is for us to buy into the takes of people who don't actually know what they're talking about.
We don't want to be hot air mouthpieces. Therefore we shouldn't only get our takes from people who are that.
Think about it. If you haven't heard the perspective of the other side, if you don't know even know the basic differences between guns (caliber differences, auto vs semi-auto, open vs. concealed carry), don't even know the statistics of how frequent gun deaths are (e.g. gang violence kills more people just in Chicago each season than all school shootings put together), and don't even know which types of guns are used for the most killing (answer: not rifles, but handguns, because they're much more common) ... then it's safe to say your opinion is severely un-informed.
You're welcome to have a take. But please, for all our sakes, make it an informed take, because no one wants to sound like an NPC.
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What are you talking about? There were school shootings before Columbine. The first school shooting happened in 1891. And how can you say more rules wouldn’t make much difference when more shootings have happened since the assault gun ban ended?
Let’s try out some regulations and see what works? I’d like gun ownership to look more like Switzerland than what we have now.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 27 2022 17:16 MrBitter wrote:
If you own and are trained and prepared to use your firearm, you are more safe.
Not according to the data.
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On July 14 2022 18:41 rickymartin wrote:Also the problem with the "bad guys have them" argument is that that is never going to change while you keep weapons accessible. If you buy weapons back and don't sell anymore you're slowly reducing the number of them in the country and eventually you might get to the point where not everyone who wants one has one. And you create the possibility of a cultural shift where weapons are seen as the tools for murder they are and not as a toy as some seem to think in the USA. Make laws and stop selling these items in princessmarket.
These AI posts fascinate me so much.
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EPT
