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Gun violence in America is clearly out of hand. There always has been, and always will be, fierce debate around the reach of the second amendment and gun rights in the US. But we should all agree that something has to be done. And there have to be things we can do right now that at least signal a step in a better direction.
I’m pro gun. I don’t believe we can or should take guns out of America. At my core, I believe that an armed populace is better than an unarmed one.
But I’m so willing to discuss and compromise.
These are my ideas for where we should start the conversation:
A ban on the sale of all new AR-15s and similar weapons. Congratulations gun owners, your ARs just became collectors items. We’re not going to take them from you. But we will not sell a new AR to a civilian in America. Maybe we can consider licenses or permits for civilians who test extensively and appropriately to be qualified to own these weapons.
An optional gun buyback. The US government will buy back any gun at any time from anybody, no questions asked. They will pay top dollar. Whatever the max that this weapon could be worth on the open market, the USA will buy it from you. We won’t ask where you got it, we won’t write down your name, and we’ll hand you cash to walk away with.
We also should go ahead and take the immediate step of putting an armed officer inside every school in America. I know it won’t guarantee safety for everyone all the time, but it will be one more obstacle between a crazy person and our children.
I believe these three steps would go a long way in moving us toward a better and safer standard for gun ownership in America. Many people will argue that ideas like these don’t go nearly far enough. And at the same time, there will always be a vocal group of Americans who will decry any restrictions against gun ownership at all.
I would love to see our legislators move quickly on ideas like mine, but more than anything I hope that we immediately act on something… anything that signals to our children, and our citizens, and to the world, that we’re aware of the inhumanity that’s been happening in our country and that we are finally starting to take meaningful steps toward addressing it.
 
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You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing.
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On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote:
You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting
"I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school"
There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened"
Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing.
it's called being brainwashed. they are all brainwashed.
An armed population should not exist, no reason in 2022 for having one, or at least I don't see one.
Also, can you imagine they argue about that stupid constitution they have?
Some dude wrote a paper 233 years ago and they still do mental gymnastics about how he was right. No wonder they take the bible ad litteram too. Fking hell brother.
I wonder, will Americans ever learn that they can be wrong too? It got to a point where it is pure hubris in the detriment of everything.
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I mean, I get it.
Here are a few reasons that I still feel strongly about wanting to keep my guns:
#1 is personal protection. Even if we banned every gun tomorrow, there are already over 400 million guns in peoples hands. More than enough to arm every man, woman, and child in the US. The bad guys already have them, and they won’t be giving them back.
If you own and are trained and prepared to use your firearm, you are more safe. I am okay with requiring training and better background checks for all gun purchasers.
#2 is the reality of living in rural America. I grew up in the South, and was relatively poor. My family never went hungry, but plenty of my friends hunted regularly solely to put food on your table.
There is an outdoor, immersed in nature lifestyle that many Americans choose that had always been a rich part of our history and tradition. Guns are a part of that and I don’t believe we should take them away.
I completely support tighter controls or even something as extreme as bans down at state levels, but I do not believe it smart, right, or realistic to suggest we remove every gun from America.
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There should certainly be a clear delineation between guns that have practical uses that aren't Murder Human Beings Super Efficiently at least.
Im torn these days about guns because I see how cops behave and murder people and I wouldnt fault a black person, for example, for shooting a cop that was about to murder them.
On the otherhand, psychopaths and all.
Ideally it'd be nice to severely restrict guns that don't have a clear utility for hunting or animal control. Shotguns aren't a serious problem, hunting rifles aren't a serious problem, AR-15's and shit should be heavily regulated. All guns need more restrictions though, it shouldn't be easier to own guns than drive a fucking car.
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On May 27 2022 17:16 MrBitter wrote:
I mean, I get it.
Here are a few reasons that I still feel strongly about wanting to keep my guns:
#1 is personal protection. Even if we banned every gun tomorrow, there are already over 400 million guns in peoples hands. More than enough to arm every man, woman, and child in the US. The bad guys already have them, and they won’t be giving them back.
If you own and are trained and prepared to use your firearm, you are more safe. I am okay with requiring training and better background checks for all gun purchasers.
#2 is the reality of living in rural America. I grew up in the South, and was relatively poor. My family never went hungry, but plenty of my friends hunted regularly solely to put food on your table.
There is an outdoor, immersed in nature lifestyle that many Americans choose that had always been a rich part of our history and tradition. Guns are a part of that and I don’t believe we should take them away.
I completely support tighter controls or even something as extreme as bans down at state levels, but I do not believe it smart, right, or realistic to suggest we remove every gun from America.
nobody said to ban all guns. Guns are legal everywhere. How come we don't have mass shootings in the EU?
Please read the above like 5 times and let that sink in, guns are legal, but they are regulated. everywhere.
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Restrictive means nothing but to prove to them you are not insane.
Physical exam, Mental exam, shooting training then yes you get your stupid gun. Is this not the most rational thing to require?
It is doable and legal and everyone is happy this way.
Nordic countries have 1/3 guns compared to America / 1000 citizens, yet no mass shooting, Yes they had like 2? in the last 10 years, but compared to 800, I can't say anything but point to data and scream "REGULATION IS WORKING WOWWW"
I am sorry if the tone is lost in the reading, I am actually not pissed or anything just making fun of the situation <3 wish you the best.
edit: would you sell a weapon to a mentally unstable person?
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We should never sell weapons to mentally unstable people
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On May 27 2022 21:01 MrBitter wrote:
We should never sell weapons to mentally unstable people
Mentally unstable people should have the same rights to defend themselves through the use of fire arms just like anyone else. In order to do so, This also means they should also be allowed to purchase fire arms.
What makes you think someone else should have more of a right to purchase firearms for self defense purposes than others? Why would only some people be allowed to defend themselves?
If someone's rights to purchase a firearm and defend themselves are taken away because of the idea that "mentally unstable people shouldn't be able to buy guns", are you willing to foot the security bill? Security is quite expensive.
It's interesting seeing many people talk about this topic on various social media outlets, but i don't hear much discussion about how the police and swat team(who make up 40% of the municipal budget), who are literally trained to deal with thesituations that occurred this week, cowardly waited 40 minutes to do anything in one of the shootings. They waited 40 minutes outside the door when they knew they only had a window of time less than half of that. They had no problem assaulting concerned and hysterical parents outside though. I think it's because they are trying to spin the narrative that "if we had been able to do our jobs, damage could have been minimized". But no one stopped them from doing their jobs here. And yet they failed to protect and serve. They said "we didn't want to get hurt". Cowards. Yet another reason why the police should be defunded. They are nothing more than a fundraising racket anyway, Americans see right through it. I literally had a run in with cops 2 months ago. Cops asked me if I had money/job. I told them no. Then they let me go. If i had a job/money, they were looking to make commission off me. Pigs. Hopefully the police get defunded soon and all the money freed up in the budget could actually be put towards something that will improve society, like helping people who may be struggling with mental health or those who didn't get a fair shake in life. Even just giving the police budget money money back to the taxpayers would be a plus.
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I'm viewing this school shooting and rampant violence in the US as a social and family issue, not so much with gun control. I mean illegal guns are quite easy to get, just today I was talking to a friend about illegal pistols and he sneered "Man, I can call a guy and you can have an AK47 with 5 clips in 20 minutes for like 400 euro." I assume it would be easy to buy an AR on the black market in the US, in the unlikely scenario that guns become less accessible.
I think this way because for me it's striking how similar the perpetrators usually are, almost indistinguishable. So I'm ruminating that there's gotta be a trigger, something that molds those boys, twists them in such a way that they see no other option in their life except to go berserk on entirely defenseless children or even their peers. However I am not acquainted in depth with the social and family issues in USA.
So I'd like to ask fellow board Americans - what do you think is so dysfunctional and this otherwise amazing society you've got there? What drives those boys to commit those appalling crimes? Is it poverty? Is it abuse in the family? Abuse in school? Is is a mix, if so what prevails? Whatever it is, it is up to America's society to deal with it. But it's obvious the answer isn't a simple "Let's just ban guns." USA has to deal with this. And not because of the Constitution, Constitutions are man made and so can ne changed by man. But because those acts tear entire communities apart, destroy hundreds of families, drown them in grief for no reason; those deeds are senseless abomination towards nature and they have to be eradicated somehow.
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crazy what happened though.
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On May 27 2022 17:16 MrBitter wrote:
I mean, I get it.
Here are a few reasons that I still feel strongly about wanting to keep my guns:
#1 is personal protection. Even if we banned every gun tomorrow, there are already over 400 million guns in peoples hands. More than enough to arm every man, woman, and child in the US. The bad guys already have them, and they won’t be giving them back.
If you own and are trained and prepared to use your firearm, you are more safe. I am okay with requiring training and better background checks for all gun purchasers.
#2 is the reality of living in rural America. I grew up in the South, and was relatively poor. My family never went hungry, but plenty of my friends hunted regularly solely to put food on your table.
There is an outdoor, immersed in nature lifestyle that many Americans choose that had always been a rich part of our history and tradition. Guns are a part of that and I don’t believe we should take them away.
I completely support tighter controls or even something as extreme as bans down at state levels, but I do not believe it smart, right, or realistic to suggest we remove every gun from America.
1# IIRC there was a statistic flying around a few years ago that said that gun owners are much more likely to die during contact with criminals than non-gun-owners. Having a weapon opens up the possibility of escalating as a "viable" choice and most criminals aren't really interested in killing you for no good reason, but will do so if they feel threatened. They are usually interested in your valuables, not in a higher prison sentence should they get caught.
Also the problem with the "bad guys have them" argument is that that is never going to change while you keep weapons accessible. If you buy weapons back and don't sell anymore you're slowly reducing the number of them in the country and eventually you might get to the point where not everyone who wants one has one. And you create the possibility of a cultural shift where weapons are seen as the tools for murder they are and not as a toy as some seem to think in the USA.
2# Hunting rifles are legal in a lot of countries. I don't think most people oppose single shot weapons for hunters who get a hunter's license and a weapon permit (which is usually a lot more regulated and harder to attain than even in the blue stats in the USA), but semi-automatic weapons are mainly tools for killing other people so imo there's no reason to keep them accessible.
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On May 28 2022 06:19 ReachTheSky wrote:
crazy what happened though.
Was the best thing I've read for a while on this site lol. Came across as genuine.
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On May 28 2022 04:46 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 21:01 MrBitter wrote:
We should never sell weapons to mentally unstable people Mentally unstable people should have the same rights to defend themselves through the use of fire arms just like anyone else. In order to do so, This also means they should also be allowed to purchase fire arms. What makes you think someone else should have more of a right to purchase firearms for self defense purposes than others? Why would only some people be allowed to defend themselves? If someone's rights to purchase a firearm and defend themselves are taken away because of the idea that "mentally unstable people shouldn't be able to buy guns", are you willing to foot the security bill? Security is quite expensive. It's interesting seeing many people talk about this topic on various social media outlets, but i don't hear much discussion about how the police and swat team(who make up 40% of the municipal budget), who are literally trained to deal with thesituations that occurred this week, cowardly waited 40 minutes to do anything in one of the shootings. They waited 40 minutes outside the door when they knew they only had a window of time less than half of that. They had no problem assaulting concerned and hysterical parents outside though. I think it's because they are trying to spin the narrative that "if we had been able to do our jobs, damage could have been minimized". But no one stopped them from doing their jobs here. And yet they failed to protect and serve. They said "we didn't want to get hurt". Cowards. Yet another reason why the police should be defunded. They are nothing more than a fundraising racket anyway, Americans see right through it. I literally had a run in with cops 2 months ago. Cops asked me if I had money/job. I told them no. Then they let me go. If i had a job/money, they were looking to make commission off me. Pigs. Hopefully the police get defunded soon and all the money freed up in the budget could actually be put towards something that will improve society, like helping people who may be struggling with mental health or those who didn't get a fair shake in life. Even just giving the police budget money money back to the taxpayers would be a plus.
if they are mentally unstable, what right to defend themselves is there that does not come with the risk of hurting others for no reason? I might get permabanned once again on tl but I will say, you are a fking degenerate if you would sell weapons to mentally unstable people.
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On May 28 2022 05:16 JoinTheRain wrote:
I'm viewing this school shooting and rampant violence in the US as a social and family issue, not so much with gun control. I mean illegal guns are quite easy to get, just today I was talking to a friend about illegal pistols and he sneered "Man, I can call a guy and you can have an AK47 with 5 clips in 20 minutes for like 400 euro." I assume it would be easy to buy an AR on the black market in the US, in the unlikely scenario that guns become less accessible.
I think this way because for me it's striking how similar the perpetrators usually are, almost indistinguishable. So I'm ruminating that there's gotta be a trigger, something that molds those boys, twists them in such a way that they see no other option in their life except to go berserk on entirely defenseless children or even their peers. However I am not acquainted in depth with the social and family issues in USA.
So I'd like to ask fellow board Americans - what do you think is so dysfunctional and this otherwise amazing society you've got there? What drives those boys to commit those appalling crimes? Is it poverty? Is it abuse in the family? Abuse in school? Is is a mix, if so what prevails? Whatever it is, it is up to America's society to deal with it. But it's obvious the answer isn't a simple "Let's just ban guns." USA has to deal with this. And not because of the Constitution, Constitutions are man made and so can ne changed by man. But because those acts tear entire communities apart, destroy hundreds of families, drown them in grief for no reason; those deeds are senseless abomination towards nature and they have to be eradicated somehow.
This is only now.
Only now!, you can buy stuff black market that easy because nothing is regulated in the usa regarding weapons.
If tomorrow there would be laws like in the rest of the world to regulate the market, nobody will sell you shit and risk going 20 years in prison for a couple of bucks.
edit: yes black market may be regulated but it does not seem enforced from what you say.
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All weapons need to be put out of circulation.
Private citizens should only get guns for hunting or shooting range as a hobby.
No citizens should have access to fully automatic rifles.
Getting a weapon would require checks that would make it near impossible for guns to end up in the hands of people with bad intentions.
You now have more control of the circulation of guns in your country and if one is used it is easier to track and gun violence crimes are easier to solve because its easier to follow the guns.
Obviously this will take time and you would have to slowly implement the change as you reduce the amount of guns in private citizens hands starting with FULLY AUTOMATIC RIFLES.
With these rules the likelihood of this shooting happening is extremely low and the chance that the community and authorities would be able to pick up on this before it happened would have been higher because the shooter would have really struggled to be able to get his hands on a fully automatic rifle or any gun for that matter.
The 2nd amendment was made in 1791 that is OVER 200 FUCKING YEARS AGO, slaves were allowed then to should we go back to that as well then?
You need to rewrite this shit and stop letting a bunch of cowboys who can't let go of the past keep your country in the 1700s grow the fuck up America
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Few things i just wanna mention:
1. I totally agree with xsnac except for the mental unstable part. Don't make the discussion complicated. I don't think ,,mental instability'' is a technial term: As you pointed out: Sensible regulation works as statistics show. if and under what circumstances ,,mental unstable'' persons are allowed to apply for a weapon permit is defined in the regulations.
2. Regarding the original post:
On May 27 2022 05:12 MrBitter wrote:
An optional gun buyback. The US government will buy back any gun at any time from anybody, no questions asked. They will pay top dollar. Whatever the max that this weapon could be worth on the open market, the USA will buy it from you. We won’t ask where you got it, we won’t write down your name, and we’ll hand you cash to walk away with.
MrBitter, please think about your proposal for one second: What about possible murder weapons? What about smuggling weapons to sell them for top dollars in the us? I hope you realise this proposal is utterly flawed.
On May 27 2022 05:12 MrBitter wrote:
I’m pro gun. I don’t believe we can or should take guns out of America. At my core, I believe that an armed populace is better than an unarmed one.
On May 27 2022 17:16 MrBitter wrote:
I completely support tighter controls or even something as extreme as bans down at state levels
This a contradiction, isn't it? On the one hand you think an armed populace (i.e. all citizens) is better than an unarmed one. On the other you support tighter controls for weapons? So everybody should own a weapon AND not everybody should own a weapon.
Or are you talking about regulation/ban of certain types of weapons? But what for? Do you think owning a certain type of weapon makes one more likely to murder someone? At least to me that sounds at least questionable. I think regulation just certain types of weapons won't stop people murdering. It only can make it less effective. Which seems like a very weak goal to aim for.
If I may: I think it is very likely you are confusing ,,anti-gun people'' for people who want to ban guns completely. There certainly are people fighting for a complete ban of all guns. But i truley think its the minority of people opposing gun ownership. As xsnac mentioned as well. (Everybody i know and talked to about gun ownership is ''anti gun'' but doesn't think guns should be banned completely.)
On May 28 2022 11:51 Archeon wrote:
1# IIRC there was a statistic flying around a few years ago that said that gun owners are much more likely to die during contact with criminals than non-gun-owners.
There are many studies with the result that owning a gun makes you more likely to get murdered as well as shot in the us.
Also the evidence that sensible regulation of weapon ownership works is kind of indeniable, statistically speaking. As xsnac mentioned as well.
I don't think if somebody is being honest with himself and objective he can deny that strict gun regulations are working and thus reasonable if you want to reduce gun violence. But it's hard to look honestly and objectively if anything contradicts your core believes. It's human. I've been there (too). (Not that i won't get there again  )
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thx mate this is quite on point and funny.
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EPT
