| Blogs > MrBitter |
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On May 29 2022 22:22 zimp wrote: + Show Spoiler + are you playing protoss? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/world/europe/gun-laws-australia-britain.html While there are some debatable things in there, overall his piece is really solid and the point made well. Thanks for sharing! | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
*87% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot. This particular number is kind of what I remember seeing on graphs somewhere in internets | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16761 Posts
On May 31 2022 04:40 niteReloaded wrote: america is fucked in this sense. There's a stalemate on this topic, and you guys just have to live with the fact that you're gonna have 50000%* more school shootings than is the average in the world. *87% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot. This particular number is kind of what I remember seeing on graphs somewhere in internets ya, it is interesting to note that the supposedly super-safe big city of Toronto, Canada has the same murder rate at New York state in general and New York City in particular. The way the media portrays America in general and Toronto in particular you'd never think that is the case. The media seems to be stuck in 1991. It ain't 1991. To give you an idea of how big Toronto is...the GDP of the Greater Toronto area is only superseded by LA and NYC in America. So comparing Toronto to other USA big cities is 100% valid. Its not like Toronto is Charlotte, North Carolina or something. The only way Chicago is bigger is if you include all of Illinois as teh "greater chicago area". Any how... I am Canadian and moved from the Toronto area to upstate New York and I'm super happy with my decision. Canada's hardest working, most ambitious university grads continue to flock to the USA in droves. A lot of Canada's best DRs move to the USA. Its also just not "Canada's best" that are leaving ... regular, every-day, hard working Canadian nurses and lab technologists find things better in the USA than in Canada. The USA remains a great option for people wanting to leave Canada. Over the years , dozens of my classmates and several family members made the cold, calculated strategically-thought-out decision to move the the USA. When I compare this careful analysis to the emo USA-bashing on this board I chuckle. The USA is pretty damn good and its got lots of great people in it. I feel privileged they let me in! | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
Words of the Second Amendment from wikipedia: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. In my unqualified opinion, I'm pretty sure that founding fathers put "well regulated militia" and "security of a free state" in there for a good reason. If we were to somehow prove that "a well regulated Militia is not absolutely necessary to the security of a free State," then the rights to bear arms should probably get reexamined under closer scrutiny. With 21st century military technology (hell even 19th and 20th century technology), information/data/privacy/publicity/media/money considerations, mental health, the fact that America spends >$700billion a year on a standing military, and the internet, I think that a well regulated militia (i.e, a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency) is no longer "absolutely" necessary to the security of America in the context of foreign invasions like in the Revolutionary War vs Britain. At the very least, I think our lawmakers need to define security better (foreign enemies? stability? private security?), but obviously this will never happen because our political system is broken when it comes to these issues. That being said, I feel like the best way forward is to require all gun owners to serve in their local militia. If you can't serve, then you can't have guns. If you leave the militia, we take those guns away. Incorporate quarterly background and mental health checks, training, and regulated ammunition into that process. This is the only way I'd ever buy in to the "good guy with a gun" theory. This is of course ignoring all of the other socio-economic problems that may contribute to gun violence, such as the widening income gap between the lower-mid-upper classes, poor work-life balance, negligent parenting, overconsumption of media/entertainment, freedom of stupidity/ignorance getting mixed in with freedom of speech, corruption of all politicians...the list goes on. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2578 Posts
I live in Germany now, and people have guns here. Every community has a Schützenverein, and hunting is common. Since I live in a rural community, I hear a lot of gunshots. The difference is that the idea of people just carrying guns around all the time is rightfully considered insane, and the idea of allowing civilians to own military-grade weaponry, the kind designed to kill human beings as effectively and quickly as possible, is considered unthinkably idiotic. Germany practices responsible gun ownership. And so mass shootings here are incredibly rare. If Americans want guns so that they can hunt or engage in shooting sport, then I'm all for it. Take a class, get a license, purchase a gun that is well-suited to hunting or sport shooting. And inevitably, some of those guns will be used for violence, but it's going to take a hell of a lot longer to mow down an entire classroom full of second graders, and they're going to have a much better chance of surviving their wounds, too. The idea that Americans need to be well-armed to defend their rights is preposterous. Americans have never won or defended our rights through the kind of organized violence that that argument implies, and recent history tells me that an uprising of idiots with military weapons is more likely to be in order to impose tyrrany than it is to fight back against it. | ||
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stenole
Norway868 Posts
Easy access to potent guns doesn't help the situation, but I think if you are angry enough for long enough you're going to get hold of guns. America could weed out some of the less commited killers, though, by making it a little harder. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On May 27 2022 14:49 LuckyOwls wrote: You know a country is a failed experiment when after a school shooting you still get people shouting "I'm still pro gun! lets just stick an armed officer in every school" There is actually a thread already called "if you are reading this then another mass shooting happened" Says it all really but its a better spot for this sort of thing. On May 27 2022 15:57 xsnac wrote: it's called being brainwashed. they are all brainwashed. An armed population should not exist, no reason in 2022 for having one, or at least I don't see one. Also, can you imagine they argue about that stupid constitution they have? Some dude wrote a paper 233 years ago and they still do mental gymnastics about how he was right. No wonder they take the bible ad litteram too. Fking hell brother. I wonder, will Americans ever learn that they can be wrong too? It got to a point where it is pure hubris in the detriment of everything. In the real world America as a country is the most successful experiment ever attempted. The reason we are so successful is because we do take our constitution seriously. We do not succeed because we are smarter or taller or harder working or because we have more natural resources or better weather. We succeed because we respect our constitution. While Europe descended into two brutal world wars with Fascists on one side and Communists on the other, it was America that stepped in and set things right. The fact that there is mass immigration into America and not emigration from America further underscores how wonderful America is. While the Fascists and Communists restricted religious worship, it was the American Bible thumpers who showed up to rescue everyone. Do not be so dismissive towards those who take the Bible seriously. When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers. The whole security of free people in Europe right now rests on their confidence that Americans will come defend them if their government or another government becomes despotic. This sort of thing seems highly unlikely to younger folks, but I lived through dictatorships in Europe. Romania spent decades as a communist dictatorship during my lifetime. Dictatorships happen and that is when the people need weapons. If you believe that this could no longer happen because "the internet" or for any other reason, then please consider the state of Democracy in Russia and China. By entrusting your security to American politicians you are showing a degrees of naivete and subservience that we are unwilling to. Politicians are politicians and American politicians are no better than the rest of the world. The difference is that our constitution prevents any single politician from accumulating much power. Citizens from smaller countries in Europe may assume they can simply flee if things turn bad in their home country, but if things turn bad in America, I don't know where 350M people can flee to. The most recent school shooting occurred on government property at a government school with government security and government police and yet the government sat there for 90 minutes and let a sicko kill children. That right there should tell you how much the government cares about our security. The best way to protect yourself is to protect yourself. You may be concerned that guns cause the murders. The data do not back you up. Non-Hispanic White Americans are the most well armed people in the world, but their murder rate is quite low. It currently sits around 2 per 100,000. Our most populous neighbor, Mexico, sits at 29. The EU sits at 3. So non-Hispanic White Americans commit murders at lower rates than Europeans despite being far better armed. Guns are not causing the murders. American states and cities have in the past been granted broad powers to restrict gun ownership. During the 1970s - 1990s Washington, DC mostly banned fire arms and watched in terror as its murder rate became the worst in the nation. Meanwhile, rural America, which has the highest per capita gun ownership in the world, has an extremely low murder rate. If you Europeans wish to disarm yourselves and let the big dogs like America, China, Japan and Russia do with you what we will then that is your right, but do not expect us to follow your lead and don't say we didn't warn you when the governments of America, China, Russia and Japan are less benevolent than you expect. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On June 01 2022 03:55 meadbert wrote: In the real world America as a country is the most successful experiment ever attempted. The reason we are so successful is because we do take our constitution seriously. We do not succeed because we are smarter or taller or harder working or because we have more natural resources or better weather. We succeed because we respect our constitution. While Europe descended into two brutal world wars with Fascists on one side and Communists on the other, it was America that stepped in and set things right. The fact that there is mass immigration into America and not emigration from America further underscores how wonderful America is. While the Fascists and Communists restricted religious worship, it was the American Bible thumpers who showed up to rescue everyone. Do not be so dismissive towards those who take the Bible seriously. When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers. The whole security of free people in Europe right now rests on their confidence that Americans will come defend them if their government or another government becomes despotic. This sort of thing seems highly unlikely to younger folks, but I lived through dictatorships in Europe. Romania spent decades as a communist dictatorship during my lifetime. Dictatorships happen and that is when the people need weapons. If you believe that this could no longer happen because "the internet" or for any other reason, then please consider the state of Democracy in Russia and China. By entrusting your security to American politicians you are showing a degrees of naivete and subservience that we are unwilling to. Politicians are politicians and American politicians are no better than the rest of the world. The difference is that our constitution prevents any single politician from accumulating much power. Citizens from smaller countries in Europe may assume they can simply flee if things turn bad in their home country, but if things turn bad in America, I don't know where 350M people can flee to. The most recent school shooting occurred on government property at a government school with government security and government police and yet the government sat there for 90 minutes and let a sicko kill children. That right there should tell you how much the government cares about our security. The best way to protect yourself is to protect yourself. You may be concerned that guns cause the murders. The data do not back you up. Non-Hispanic White Americans are the most well armed people in the world, but their murder rate is quite low. It currently sits around 2 per 100,000. Our most populous neighbor, Mexico, sits at 29. The EU sits at 3. So non-Hispanic White Americans commit murders at lower rates than Europeans despite being far better armed. Guns are not causing the murders. American states and cities have in the past been granted broad powers to restrict gun ownership. During the 1970s - 1990s Washington, DC mostly banned fire arms and watched in terror as its murder rate became the worst in the nation. Meanwhile, rural America, which has the highest per capita gun ownership in the world, has an extremely low murder rate. If you Europeans wish to disarm yourselves and let the big dogs like America, China, Japan and Russia do with you what we will then that is your right, but do not expect us to follow your lead and don't say we didn't warn you when the governments of America, China, Russia and Japan are less benevolent than you expect. I don't want to really get into this discussion, but America only succeeded because of the brain drain. If you close the border tomorrow in 10 years you are all bankrupt. It is not about the constitution or anything. Your educational system is a joke until uni. and unis are run on an operational level by foreigners, not by natives. I will say this again since it is the core argument: if you close the border you go out of business instantly. It has nothing to do with that paper, that paper you keep at, only made possible the hillbilly/redneck and ultimately mass shooting culture. You can't produce anything with your early-mid-high school system. Please fact-check before having strong opinions that are straight-up wrong. | ||
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jodljodl
174 Posts
On May 31 2022 09:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya, it is interesting to note that the supposedly super-safe big city of Toronto, Canada has the same murder rate at New York state in general and New York City in particular. The way the media portrays America in general and Toronto in particular you'd never think that is the case. The media seems to be stuck in 1991. It ain't 1991.[...] As far as i can tell the homicide rate of toronto is much lower than the rate of NYC or Los Angeles: Something like 5.5 for NYC and 6.4 for LA (via wiki; or fbi website) vs. 1.62 for Toronto (via statcan; even though i'm not totally convinced: when i was checking the toronto police site itself it didn't really add up; but they didn't show any rates just absolute numbers and no population number to compare it to; But the rate ~3 i got for 2.9 mio inhabitants is still much lower than the aforementioned numbers for NYC and LA.) Regarding On May 27 2022 17:16 MrBitter wrote: i wanted to add:If you own and are trained and prepared to use your firearm, you are more safe. I am okay with requiring training and better background checks for all gun purchasers. While i was looking for these numbers i came across this article www.nytimes.com. Here the director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California states that ,,the lower the prevalence of ownership, the lower the rate of firearm violence — that’s been one of the most robust research findings for decades''. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On June 01 2022 04:19 xsnac wrote: I don't want to really get into this discussion, but America only succeeded because of the brain drain. If you close the border tomorrow in 10 years you are all bankrupt. It is not about the constitution or anything. Your educational system is a joke until uni. and unis are run on an operational level by foreigners, not by natives. I will say this again since it is the core argument: if you close the border you go out of business instantly. It has nothing to do with that paper, that paper you keep at, only made possible the hillbilly/redneck and ultimately mass shooting culture. You can't produce anything with your early-mid-high school system. Please fact-check before having strong opinions that are straight-up wrong. I am glad you at least acknowledge that America has succeeded. Why do you suppose the brains are draining here rather than elsewhere? Perhaps it is because there is more academic freedom? Perhaps because we as a people are more free from our own government? Why might that be? | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On June 01 2022 04:32 jodljodl wrote: While i was looking for these numbers i came across this article www.nytimes.com. Here the director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California states that ,,the lower the prevalence of ownership, the lower the rate of firearm violence — that’s been one of the most robust research findings for decades''. That finding is false. The best example was Washington, DC. In 1975 they mostly banned firearms. Their murder rate soared to being the highest in the nation. The ban was deemed unconstitutional in 2007 and the murder rate collapsed by over 50% in the next 5 years: Source: https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On June 01 2022 04:51 meadbert wrote: I am glad you at least acknowledge that America has succeeded. Why do you suppose the brains are draining here rather than elsewhere? Perhaps it is because there is more academic freedom? Perhaps because we as a people are more free from our own government? Why might that be? because others were at war, or because of opportunities (which is not the case anymore today), not because of your stupid constitution. but w/e fam, keep your wishful thinking. Also, check mumbai institute of technology, check how many grad students were going to study in 2000 in murica and how many are now, also how many are staying in murica after. It only goes downhill from here, enjoy the ride. Again, won't comment anymore, you seem to have a rather bigoted opinion and a complete disillusion on how the world is working. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On June 01 2022 05:36 xsnac wrote: because others were at war, or because of opportunities (which is not the case anymore today), not because of your stupid constitution. but w/e fam, keep your wishful thinking. Also, check mumbai institute of technology, check how many grad students were going to study in 2000 in murica and how many are now, also how many are staying in murica after. It only goes downhill from here, enjoy the ride. Again, won't comment anymore, you seem to have a rather bigoted opinion and a complete disillusion on how the world is working. After calling us hillbillies and rednecks and insulting our great country by referring to it as "murica" you accuse us of being the bigots. Then you claim that we bigots are only successful because we invite so many immigrants into our country to join us? Maybe we are less bigoted that you think? Maybe you are more bigoted than you think? Please consider both of these possibilities while you refrain from replying during your self-imposed exile. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16761 Posts
On June 01 2022 04:19 xsnac wrote: I don't want to really get into this discussion, but America only succeeded because of the brain drain. If you close the border tomorrow in 10 years you are all bankrupt. It is not about the constitution or anything. Canada and the USA share the longest undefended border in the world. It ain't closing... Thank God! On June 01 2022 04:32 jodljodl wrote: As far as i can tell the homicide rate of toronto is much lower than the rate of NYC or Los Angeles: Something like 5.5 for NYC and 6.4 for LA (via wiki; or fbi website) vs. 1.62 for Toronto (via statcan; even though i'm not totally convinced: when i was checking the toronto police site itself it didn't really add up; but they didn't show any rates just absolute numbers and no population number to compare it to; But the rate ~3 i got for 2.9 mio inhabitants is still much lower than the aforementioned numbers for NYC and LA.) I am comparing NYC to Toronto. I am not comparing LA to TO. You have your #s wrong. https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/06/toronto-homicide-rate-now-higher-new-york/ This piece is a bit sensationalist. Overall... over the past few years TO and NYC are approximately equal in murder rate. TO and New York state are also about equal. Regarding Toronto... You ever hang out at Queen//Sherbourne? Jane//Finch? The block north of Filmore's strip club on Dundas? Its basically the video game "Borderlands" or a Mad Max movie ... brought to real life. Check out my vid in the Canadian politics thread. That's standard fare. I can make a video like that almost any day of the week. Violent crime has been falling steadily across NYC and New York state since 1991. Overall, I'd say NY state and Toronto are about equal in terms of danger levels. https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm | ||
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jodljodl
174 Posts
On June 01 2022 03:55 meadbert wrote: Non-Hispanic White Americans are the most well armed people in the world, but their murder rate is quite low. It currently sits around 2 per 100,000. [...] The EU sits at 3. So non-Hispanic White Americans commit murders at lower rates than Europeans despite being far better armed. Dude, that's a bunch of bullshit: the murder rate in the european union was 0.755 in 2017. Bit smaller than 2, ey? Source: Population: ec.europa.eu and Number of Murders: ec.europa.eu (I edited the source. The table i refered to before I didn't fully understand, so I decided to refer to something i do understand  )On June 01 2022 13:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I am comparing NYC to Toronto. I am not comparing LA to TO. You have your #s wrong. https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/06/toronto-homicide-rate-now-higher-new-york/ This piece is a bit sensationalist. Overall... over the past few years TO and NYC are approximately equal in murder rate. TO and New York state are also about equal. I took a look at that article. Few things I want to mention: 1. 47/29.3 = 1.6041 notequals 1.67. Which sheds confidence in blogTO right away. 2. In the article they are comparing murder rates mid year. Which is weird. It's even weirder because there was an extraodinary event with 11 murders which they even mention. Doesn't help with the confidence in blogTO... 3. NYC/NY State and Toronto are not approximately equal in murder rates over the past few years: NYC vs Toronto vs NY State 4.1 vs 2.2 vs 4.2 in 2015 3.9 vs 2.8 vs 4.4 in 2016 3.4 vs 2.6 vs 3.7 in 2017 3.4 vs 3.3 vs 4.1 in 2018 3.67 vs 2.8 vs 3.9 in 2019 5.35 vs 2.5 vs 5.3 in 2020 5.54 vs 3 in 2021 If you disregard 2018 you can see that NYC has a murder rate that is at least 30% higher than that of Toronto in the last 7 years. So no, the murder rates of NYC and Toronto are not even close and especially not approximately equal. If you compare NY State and Toronto you get a similiar picture: In 2018 when the murder rates were the closest NY States murder rate is still about 25% bigger than the murder rate of Toronto. Sources: NY State: www.cdc.gov, numbers of murders in Toronto app.powerbi.com by Toronto Police Service, numbers of murders in NYC www1.nyc.gov -> citywide seven major felony offenses 2000-2021 (PDF), population i pick of different sources; hard to find numbers for every year (at least for me) because census does not happen yearly.) It's also worth mentioning that 2018 is the all time high of murders in toronto whereas the numbers of murders in 2018 in NYC is relatively low. On June 01 2022 13:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Regarding Toronto... You ever hang out at Queen//Sherbourne? Jane//Finch? The block north of Filmore's strip club on Dundas? Its basically the video game "Borderlands" or a Mad Max movie ... brought to real life. Check out my vid in the Canadian politics thread. That's standard fare. I can make a video like that almost any day of the week. No, I have not. I've never been to North America. On June 01 2022 13:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Violent crime has been falling steadily across NYC and New York state since 1991. Overall, I'd say NY state and Toronto are about equal in terms of danger levels. I cannot judge what the situation is with regard to the dangers. But the number of murders is increasing in NYC since 2017 (# 2016 > # 2017 but #2017<#2018<#2019...) Now i've spent way too much time for this discussion anyway. So i probably won't contribute anymore. I won't convince you of anything anyway. Though it wasn't my intention. My intention was and is to sow doubt about the opinions of weapons proponents. Only yourself can truley change your opinion... | ||
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jodljodl
174 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16761 Posts
On June 01 2022 17:58 jodljodl wrote: NYC vs Toronto vs NY State 4.1 vs 2.2 vs 4.2 in 2015 3.9 vs 2.8 vs 4.4 in 2016 3.4 vs 2.6 vs 3.7 in 2017 3.4 vs 3.3 vs 4.1 in 2018 3.67 vs 2.8 vs 3.9 in 2019 5.35 vs 2.5 vs 5.3 in 2020 5.54 vs 3 in 2021 If you disregard 2018 you can see that NYC has a murder rate that is at least 30% higher than that of Toronto in the last 7 years. So no, the murder rates of NYC and Toronto are not even close and especially not approximately equal. If you compare NY State and Toronto you get a similiar picture: In 2018 when the murder rates were the closest NY States murder rate is still about 25% bigger than the murder rate of Toronto. 25% .... so if Toronto had about 15 more murders it'd have a murder rate equal to New York state. the emo hyberbole of "clearly out of hand" doesn't match with the #s. its not like thousands are being slaughtered in NYC compared to a couple of dozen in Toronto. When it comes to homicides and violent crime Toronto is approximately at the same level at New York state and NYC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto "Even though Toronto is the fourth largest city in North America, it has a relatively low homicide rate that fluctuated between 2.1 and 3.8, worse than most of Europe, but comparable to modern day New York." The level of violent crime in New York state made Torontonians think twice about relocating to New York decades ago. That is no longer the case. Violent crime in New York state is way down; people in southern ontario getting better job offers in New York no longer factor violent crime issues in their decision making the way they did back in the 1990s. I think two major factors led to a steady decrease in violent crime in New York over the past 30 years. #1 solid economic opportunity. #2 really smart immigration by the state and feds... New York is able to attract top notch hard working immigrants... the kinds of top notch immigrants Canada used to attract when it was an economic powerhouse under Mulroney and Chretien. BRAVO NEW YORK! WELL DONE! | ||
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Drahkn
193 Posts
On June 01 2022 03:55 meadbert wrote: In the real world America as a country is the most successful experiment ever attempted. The reason we are so successful is because we do take our constitution seriously. We do not succeed because we are smarter or taller or harder working or because we have more natural resources or better weather. We succeed because we respect our constitution. While Europe descended into two brutal world wars with Fascists on one side and Communists on the other, it was America that stepped in and set things right. The fact that there is mass immigration into America and not emigration from America further underscores how wonderful America is. While the Fascists and Communists restricted religious worship, it was the American Bible thumpers who showed up to rescue everyone. Do not be so dismissive towards those who take the Bible seriously. When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers. The whole security of free people in Europe right now rests on their confidence that Americans will come defend them if their government or another government becomes despotic. This sort of thing seems highly unlikely to younger folks, but I lived through dictatorships in Europe. Romania spent decades as a communist dictatorship during my lifetime. Dictatorships happen and that is when the people need weapons. If you believe that this could no longer happen because "the internet" or for any other reason, then please consider the state of Democracy in Russia and China. By entrusting your security to American politicians you are showing a degrees of naivete and subservience that we are unwilling to. Politicians are politicians and American politicians are no better than the rest of the world. The difference is that our constitution prevents any single politician from accumulating much power. Citizens from smaller countries in Europe may assume they can simply flee if things turn bad in their home country, but if things turn bad in America, I don't know where 350M people can flee to. The most recent school shooting occurred on government property at a government school with government security and government police and yet the government sat there for 90 minutes and let a sicko kill children. That right there should tell you how much the government cares about our security. The best way to protect yourself is to protect yourself. You may be concerned that guns cause the murders. The data do not back you up. Non-Hispanic White Americans are the most well armed people in the world, but their murder rate is quite low. It currently sits around 2 per 100,000. Our most populous neighbor, Mexico, sits at 29. The EU sits at 3. So non-Hispanic White Americans commit murders at lower rates than Europeans despite being far better armed. Guns are not causing the murders. American states and cities have in the past been granted broad powers to restrict gun ownership. During the 1970s - 1990s Washington, DC mostly banned fire arms and watched in terror as its murder rate became the worst in the nation. Meanwhile, rural America, which has the highest per capita gun ownership in the world, has an extremely low murder rate. If you Europeans wish to disarm yourselves and let the big dogs like America, China, Japan and Russia do with you what we will then that is your right, but do not expect us to follow your lead and don't say we didn't warn you when the governments of America, China, Russia and Japan are less benevolent than you expect. Are you a troll or are you actually delusional? "When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers." This is a false statement since a true functional democracy makes sure it stays a democracy. I can speak with experience because I come from the country Norway that is consistently ranked as the most functional democratic country in the world, right next to other Scandinavian countries and majority of European countries rank highest on this index. In 2020 your country was ranked 36th as a democracy in the world quite low for a country you claim to be "The greatest country in the world" "While Europe descended into two brutal world wars with Fascists on one side and Communists on the other, it was America that stepped in and set things right." How is this relevant to anything other then the need you feel to boast about how noble America was during WW1 and 2? Many more countries then just America helped make sure we won WW1 and 2 it was not only America that made that victory happen. "The fact that there is mass immigration into America and not emigration from America further underscores how wonderful America is." Europe has mass immigration as well and no-one wants to emigrate what's your point ? The living standard in Europe is far higher then in USA. "When Europe disarms itself it makes itself vulnerable to Fascist and Communist government takeovers. The whole security of free people in Europe right now rests on their confidence that Americans will come defend them if their government or another government becomes despotic." Big words coming from a country that just had an attempted coup to insert a dictator called Trump. And to claim that we have "disarmed" ourselves is a complete lie. Europe can defend itself extremely well and as I stated above has the most functional democracies in the world unlike your country. I don't understand where you get this delusion that we are helpless, America is an important part of avoiding war yes but if a war did happen its not like Europe could not defend itself this is complete nonsense. America needs Europe just as much as we need America. Get off your high horse, Europeans helped build your country so stop trying to talk to us as if we owe you a god damn thing. Without us you don't exist in the first place. "Romania spent decades as a communist dictatorship during my lifetime. Dictatorships happen and that is when the people need weapons. If you believe that this could no longer happen because "the internet" or for any other reason, then please consider the state of Democracy in Russia and China." Okay first of all Romania became a democracy via majority UNARMED PROTESTS, the masses were NOT ARMED and they still managed to turn their country into a democracy without the use of guns so please stop talking about things you know absolutely nothing about.Riot police were brought in to stop the masses but in many cases ended up joining the protests instead. And of course there is always a risk someone will try to gain power like in China and Russia, but that's why you build a functional democratic system built on TRUST and not GUNS. "The difference is that our constitution prevents any single politician from accumulating much power." You actually think a armed public can stop a politician from accumulating to much power?. You actually believe armed civilians would be able to do anything against the professional army of your country? Or do you actually believe no politician currently would dare to "step out of line" and try to get more power because some of you are armed? You truly live in your own little world don't you? You being armed has absolutely no influence on power politics in your country. "Citizens from smaller countries in Europe may assume they can simply flee if things turn bad in their home country, but if things turn bad in America, I don't know where 350M people can flee to." Why do you think we would flee? wait, are you calling us cowards now? "The most recent school shooting occurred on government property at a government school with government security and government police and yet the government sat there for 90 minutes and let a sicko kill children. That right there should tell you how much the government cares about our security. The best way to protect yourself is to protect yourself." Yeah , imagine if that kid didn't have access to guns he would maybe have had a knife and no one would have died, or maybe it wouldn't not have happened at all because getting a gun would have been so hard for him he would have been picked up by the system and it would never have been allowed to happen. With super strict gun laws and full control of gun circulation the government can control the risk of these things happening, with full free access to guns there will never be a solution to this problem EVER. "If you Europeans wish to disarm yourselves and let the big dogs like America, China, Japan and Russia do with you what we will then that is your right, but do not expect us to follow your lead and don't say we didn't warn you when the governments of America, China, Russia and Japan are less benevolent than you expect." What does this have to do with private citizens being armed or not? These are nations you talk about this would be a military conflict it has nothing to do with private citizens having arms at all. If my country was under attack any combat able person would get armed immediately. Also where do you get the notion that you could do with us as you will even if you wanted too, you understand that you would never ever be able to touch a European country because of alliances within Europe and NATO? You also understand that for the USA to break ties with Europe would be the single most stupidest thing your country could do? Anyway this is all way off topic I just wanted to correct your stupidity because you are clearly in need of some real education. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2578 Posts
I've lived about half my life in Germany, and I honestly couldn't identify any meaningful way in which my freedoms are more restricted here. I suppose if I were really into flying Nazi flags I'd maybe be bummed that my freedom to do so is restricted here. On the other hand, there's no speed limit on the freeway. Is an American doing 70mph with a giant swastika flag flying behind their pickup truck freer than me in a BMW doing 120mph? When it comes down to it, it seems to me that the only significant freedom I had in America and don't have here was the freedom to go to Walmart and buy a tool of mass murder on a whim. And yet here I have the freedom to send my children to school without any concern that some dipshit put an AR-15 on credit and is going to murder my kids for the fun of it. I don't miss the freedom to arm myself with whatever weapon strikes my mood, and I definitely don't miss the anxiety of sending my children out into the world in a country so barbaric that it averages a mass shooting a day. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On June 01 2022 17:58 jodljodl wrote: Dude, that's a bunch of bullshit: the murder rate in the european union was 0.755 in 2017. Bit smaller than 2, ey? Source: Population: ec.europa.eu and Number of Murders: ec.europa.eu (I edited the source. The table i refered to before I didn't fully understand, so I decided to refer to something i do understand ). It appears you are correct. I just typed the question into google which told me 3.0. Google used this as its source: https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/gsh/Booklet1.pdf Page 17 clearly labels the murder rate of Europe as 3.0. It does NOT label the murder rate of the European Union as 3.0. I (and google) stand corrected. Thank you. | ||
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