Top30 Foreigner Ranking, January 2013

On February 04 2013 04:14 davidjayhawk wrote:
Please don't link to your reddit thread asking for upvotes. It's against reddiquette and reddit site rules.

On February 04 2013 05:04 Zealo wrote:
you have CatZ above Sen? :S

When i talk about „Foreigners“, i exclude non-korean asian players (chinese, taiwanese), simply because I dont see enough of those scenes to rank them, and they dont participate in your regular major tournaments too often. So you may call it a „Western Foreigner Ranking“ if you so desire.

On February 04 2013 05:04 Zealo wrote:
you have CatZ above Sen? :S

On February 04 2013 05:50 GregMandel wrote:
Imo Huk is barely top 30 ( don't ask me why, I never liked him as a player and as an individual even in liquid )

On February 04 2013 06:32 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I'm glad to see Goswser make the list. I expect him to start moving up in the next few months. He seems to be a solid rising talent.

On February 04 2013 06:38 ClairvoyanceSC2 wrote:
I think suppy should be placed way higher.

On February 04 2013 06:37 dsousa wrote:
I think this is a well put together list, it is really hard to find many faults with it.

That being said, I was just thinking what an overall sad state the Foreign scene in SC2 has become. Stephano is two notches above everyone else on that list and even he can't get playing time in Proleague or advance in the GSL.

By the time you get to double digits on the foreigner list, you're talking about people who CANNOT even make GM on the Korean ladder.

Foreigners need to step it up, otherwise Hots is going to flounder.....

Naniwa 3rd? Dude hasn't even played in a tournament in ages, the last ones he did play in he lost badly.

On February 04 2013 05:43 Dronk wrote:
Wow, EmpireHappy so underrated, that guy is a beast and he has 0 votes lol! He wipes most of top30.

On February 04 2013 08:48 Depetrify wrote:
Huk's says -6 but is in green.

On February 04 2013 09:47 BlackPanther wrote:
IdrA at 25? He 4-0d his group at WCS and took a game off a super hot Rain. People are just haters.

On February 04 2013 07:33 sickoota wrote:
Naniwa 3rd? Dude hasn't even played in a tournament in ages, the last ones he did play in he lost badly.

On February 04 2013 13:54 packrat386 wrote:
Really, Kas in the top 10? I hate to be rude, but he hasn't done squat in a long time. Yeah sure he has a LOT of experience on the ladder, and he plays in online tournies, but when was the last time he had a major accomplishment. Other than that I could see IdrA a bit higher, but where you have him isn't ludicrous.

On February 04 2013 15:03 lightrise wrote:
I agree with almost everyone about suppy. Dude has been ridiculously underrated for a while now and with the lul in his tournament appearances its hard to measure him up. Overall though he smashes lots of foreigners.

On March 03 2013 07:01 KalWarkov wrote:
thanks for over 10k views! just wow

no ranking till mid march, not enough HotS results yet.

On February 04 2013 04:20 StarVe wrote:
You still should put Pomi in the rank 30-50 Protosses imho, having White-Ra, TT1 and Minigun and then not listing Pomi is almost disrespectful.

And even more than Pomi, you need Welmu.

On March 09 2013 10:52 ninazerg wrote:
This seems like a popularity list more than an accurate measure of who is performing well.

On March 09 2013 20:54 StarVe wrote:

How come? I think it was pretty accurate in February, apart from maybe Naniwa on three.

On March 09 2013 10:39 FatNikE wrote:
XLord, SortOf and Vortix shouldn't be on the list. Snute is way too high up. Why not have sasquatch at no.1 while we're at it?

Very few of these are consistent successful progamers. Scarlett lost in an open bracket for an IPL and won WCS Canada a while ago, dominating the likes of TT1. Number 2? XLord beat stephano once, Vortix did about as well as any other zerg in WoL after the queen patch for about a month.

The list just seems like a who's who of who's hot in the last 30 days, and not like a serious power ranking... Who deserves it in my book? Naniwa, Stephano, Nerchio, Kas who hasn't really had tournament success as such, but consistently beats qualifiers and appears in group play as well as holding top 5 GM spots in EU.

On March 10 2013 05:57 Kaitokid wrote:


I agree xlord shouldn't be on the list skill wise but his HSC performance was really good so it makes sense to list him. vortix/sortf definitely should be on the list, how can you even doubt that

also I dont think Kas top 5 gm spot is relevant here Lol.. there are a ton of people including players you've never heard of who can be rank 5 consistenly if they want to

vortix wasn't bad before his big splash, he was one of the best europeans since early 2011 or something, just never played tournaments before that

just because you dont know a player before he wins some event everyone and his dog watches it doesnt mean a player is bad/unknown

On March 09 2013 21:22 FatNikE wrote:


I disagree. Vortix shouldn't even be on the list, let alone number freaking 4. He came fourth in 2 IEMs as an unknown and second in Europe regionals, all during a time when Zergs were winning everything, and sniper was winning a GSL. Literally every single one of his results, including ones outside of premier LANS, was in that 3 month period between 08 and 12.

Compare to Naniwa, GSL player who won 3 MLG, came second in 2 more MLG, 4th blizzcon, 2nd TSl 3, 2nd in two homestory cups, 1st BDL, 2nd battle.net european invitiational, all spread out from the end of beta until today....

...HOW IS HE LOWER RANKED THAN VORTIX? EDIT: He's not... but it's close.

in fact, looking at their liquidpedia page, Kas has more impressive results than Vortix. Xlord on this power ranking....3rd homestory cup. That's literally his achievements. Yet he's higher than so many accomplished progamers who are much more likely to achieve in the future.

On March 09 2013 10:39 FatNikE wrote:
The list just seems like a who's who of who's hot in the last 30 days, and not like a serious power ranking... Who deserves it in my book? Naniwa, Stephano, Nerchio, Kas who hasn't really had tournament success as such, but consistently beats qualifiers and appears in group play as well as holding top 5 GM spots in EU.

On March 10 2013 09:15 FatNikE wrote:
No, Idra and Huk shouldn't be very high because they haven't done that good recently. but there is such a thing as an intelligent balance. I.E: Just because someone happens to have won most recently doesn't make them number one and neither does someone who won the most but a long time ago. A power ranking should be who's the BEST and MOST LIKELY to perform well. This should be judged through a balance of their consistency over time. I.E: How skilled they've proved to be.

I.E: Naniwa. He's good. He did well 3 years ago, and he does well now. He's an example of a player who should be ranked high. And yes, ladder fucking matters when it comes to deciding who is good because unlike tournament wins, you can't get lucky and become rank 3 on ladder 10 seasons in a row. You actually need to be consistently top 3 MMR. On the other hand, anyone can have a lucky day with the lucky race at the time and beat stephano once and suddenly be a top 30 foreigner.

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 10 2013 10:27 FatNikE wrote:
No, it wouldn't. I never said Idra was bad and Kas was good. They should probably both be on this list. But what you're missing is that if one player has won 5 tournaments and one of them was a month ago, and someone has only just won a single tournament and it was a week ago, then the former player should be ranked higher, not the latter.

On March 10 2013 08:19 FatNikE wrote:


I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Players practice on ladder. Just saying "They'd be rank 1 GM if they wanted to" doesn't mean anything and it's not true. What I'm saying is a player who never made top 15 on ladder happening to get to ro8 once in one tournament during the height of a race's imbalance does not justify them being on a top 10 power ranking compared to a player who's been top 5 on ladder for years and has made the group stages and higher for multiple major tournaments.

"Just never played tournaments before that"

Oh, they weren't of mediocre skill, they just never played tournaments, or ladder, or did anything else that would get them noticed before the queen change. That's a coincidence that makes sense.

I doubt that Vortix, Sortof, etc should be on the list because all they have is one or two tournaments in which they made it past the group stages. It could've been any GM level zerg at that point, it just happened to be them. It doesn't justify them being on a list.

I'm just saying, a couple of random zerg players who never did good on ladder, tournaments, or anywhere else in the competitive scene suddenly becoming good enough to place high in a single tournament with some luck right after a major zerg buff doesn't justify them being on a "TOP FOREIGNER!!!" list. That's like putting a couple of people who happened to not get hit by a bus when a tragedy happened on a "top survivor" list, right next to bear grylls.

They were relatively bad before, and after HoTS they'll fade back into obscurity most likely too.

I could be wrong, but the fact is still that they have yet to prove themselves! If they continue to win anything at all outside of a 1-2 month period, then by all means put them on a list like this.

But the way this list seems to function, if I were to randomly enter a tournament and get Taeja first round and beat him off of pure luck and chance with a 6pool, I'd then appear as the 25th best foreigner in next month's edition of this power ranking, despite being a crappy mid master player. A long shot, but it could happen.

If Vortix was a top foreigner, he wouldn't be on Karont3. But the real big pro teams know he won't make it past another group stage as soon as the random queen frenzy he got picked up in by happy chance ends.

On March 10 2013 08:19 FatNikE wrote:


I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Players practice on ladder. Just saying "They'd be rank 1 GM if they wanted to" doesn't mean anything and it's not true. What I'm saying is a player who never made top 15 on ladder happening to get to ro8 once in one tournament during the height of a race's imbalance does not justify them being on a top 10 power ranking compared to a player who's been top 5 on ladder for years and has made the group stages and higher for multiple major tournaments.

"Just never played tournaments before that"

Oh, they weren't of mediocre skill, they just never played tournaments, or ladder, or did anything else that would get them noticed before the queen change. That's a coincidence that makes sense.

I doubt that Vortix, Sortof, etc should be on the list because all they have is one or two tournaments in which they made it past the group stages. It could've been any GM level zerg at that point, it just happened to be them. It doesn't justify them being on a list.

I'm just saying, a couple of random zerg players who never did good on ladder, tournaments, or anywhere else in the competitive scene suddenly becoming good enough to place high in a single tournament with some luck right after a major zerg buff doesn't justify them being on a "TOP FOREIGNER!!!" list. That's like putting a couple of people who happened to not get hit by a bus when a tragedy happened on a "top survivor" list, right next to bear grylls.

They were relatively bad before, and after HoTS they'll fade back into obscurity most likely too.

I could be wrong, but the fact is still that they have yet to prove themselves! If they continue to win anything at all outside of a 1-2 month period, then by all means put them on a list like this.

But the way this list seems to function, if I were to randomly enter a tournament and get Taeja first round and beat him off of pure luck and chance with a 6pool, I'd then appear as the 25th best foreigner in next month's edition of this power ranking, despite being a crappy mid master player. A long shot, but it could happen.

If Vortix was a top foreigner, he wouldn't be on Karont3. But the real big pro teams know he won't make it past another group stage as soon as the random queen frenzy he got picked up in by happy chance ends.