EDIT: FEELING HESITANT ABOUT VISITING KOREA AFTER READING THIS? READ THIS; THIS BLOG BY MIGHTYATOM IS MUCH MORE RELEVANT TO YOU FOREIGNERS, WHILE 99% OF WHAT'S WRITTEN IN MY BLOG WILL NEVER AFFECT YOUR VISIT TO KOREA EXCEPT YOU HAVE A SMALLER FACE THAN THE AVERAGE KOREAN AND PEOPLE WILL COMPLIMENT YOU ON HOW YOUR FACE IS THE SIZE OF THEIR FIST
* This blog was inspired by a very misinformed post about Korean culture and its looks, and while I don't deny that we are a sensationalist culture focused on the superficial, I felt it was my duty to shed some light on the far-eastern ways of life. I will be leaving the underlying issue of morality at bay, and focus on giving you as in-depth of a tour of the Korean mindset as I can. I will be focusing on looks in particular in this blog.
For those of you not familiar with Korean history, let me give a you a brief snapshot of the more recent part of it, so you have enough historical context before diving into this blog. Post WW2, our country was shit. And by that I mean literally shit-shit. 99% (Source: my brain, probably lower, but not by much) of the population consisted of farmers. They planted shit to feed themselves and their families each year, and bartered whatever was left, which was usually not much, if any. The majority of the population was malnourished, and there were still people living in these 초갓집's that are houses made of mud and wood, with straw for their roofs (surprisingly they didn't leak... much).
The stereotypical 초갓집, which still exist to this day in rural areas
Fast forward 60ish years, and you get modern day Korea where it is arguably the most technologically advanced country in the world. GDP is up, economy is booming, and living standards are much higher to say the least. The thing you should take away from this brief introduction is that Koreans haven't had this sort of lifestyle for very long at all, and things are still moving at a rapid pace. We, as a whole, are still struggling to find cultural identity in this world that is so different from 60 years ago. A huge generational gap exists between the older and younger population, and a lot of old cultural elements, such as sexism, still remain in today's society, so balancing the old elements from our 5000-year-old history with the new is another puzzle for us to solve.
Night-time view of Seoul city
So what does all this have to do with looks in Korea? Well, I promise it all ties into what I'm about to say, but for now just keep all that in your mind as you read on.
Looks: a Brief Introduction
Outward looks play a huge role in any culture; you would be lying to refute that. For example, I know when I step into a job interview, the (usually Caucasian) interviewer has already developed a mental image of what kind of person I am based on my looks: Asian, male, average height. If I had to guess, the mental image would be somewhat along the lines of, 'Good at math, bad at English, and lacks confidence.' The whole interview I battle with that ghost using a slew of techniques: I add a slight southern drawl to my English, make sure to have a firm handshake and great eye contact, and project my voice. The moment they realize I don't have an Asian accent, I see their eyes light up and it's as if I can almost hear them think, 'Oh, he's one of us!' Personal anecdotes aside, we make judgments based on appearance, and whether it's right or wrong, it's an undeniable truth.
The difference between Koreans and Westerners is that there is a lot less variation in looks compared to what is oft referred to as the 'cultural melting pot' (yuck, I hate cliches). You see white, black, brown, yellow, and even orange people with all sorts of different builds and complexions in the US. In Korea, you will almost ALWAYS see black-eyed, black-haired, slender builds with similar complexions. I can't tell you which caused which to come into existence, but a sort of mob mentality exists in the Korean mind, where if you are different by even a little bit, you will be cast out. So Koreans do everything in their power to fit in, and look like everybody else. You dress the same, talk and act the same, and listen to the same music, and because everybody is so similar to each other, even the slightest differences are very noticeable.
The fine-print to this, though, is that Koreans have an innate inferiority complex. Everybody is in competition against everybody else in everything imaginable, whether it is grades, height, social status, girlfriend/boyfriend, drinking, sports, etc. Still, you can't be too obvious about this tacit agreement: you have to stand out without throwing yourself completely out there. The answer is to do everything within the same rules, but slightly better. You don't dress completely different, but you perhaps buy clothes from nicer brands, or coordinate the same pieces into an outfit that looks a little better. Maybe you throw in a small accessory like a necklace to accentuate the whole outfit. Keep these in mind when reading ahead. Without further ado, I bring you the insider view to this mysterious, xenophobic culture.
Part 1: Height and Body Proportions
Where it all began
The hottest issue when it comes to outward appearance in modern day Korea is height and body proportions, more-so for guys than girls. Some of you may already be familiar with the "loser" scandal, but to recap it for those of you who aren't, basically this rich but stupid girl said 'Aren't guys below 5'11"(~180cm) all losers?' With the national male average height being closer to 174cm, this set off a major outcry from the public, but people couldn't deny that there was a bit of truth to her statement: girls look for taller guys, and in Korea's nightlife, where most girls are just looking for fun, if you can't look the part, you kind of are a loser.
강동원, the god of body proportions. Images like these are pretty common
Now even if you are tall, there is one more examination you must pass before entering the realm of the physically gifted: body proportions. Whereas the issue of height primarily applies to males, the rule of body proportions applies to both genders. The body proportion we speak of here is the ratio of head length to height.
강동원 and 조인성 are two of the most talked about celebrities when it comes to body proportions; guess which two they are
Most westerners have a ratio close to 1 : 7.5, where as the average for Koreans is between 1 : 6~6.5. Koreans often drool over western models that we Americans feel are too lanky, because they have amazing ratios surpassing 1 : 8 (=8등신), the 'golden ratio' of all head to body ratios. Only when your ratio has surpassed 1 : 7 can you call yourself a true royalty of the nightlife, and perhaps have a shot at being cast as a model or celebrity trainee. A more relevant example to us TLer's would be RuBy's switch to an acting career after being un-drafted coming off of Airforce ACE. Even when he was a progamer, he was hailed for his tall height (183.2cm ~ 6") and optimal head to body ratio. From what I've seen on TV, Ruby can't be good at acting; he was casted purely due to his looks.
Ruby's superior 기럭지
Because height and head-to-body ratio is so important, people have found ways to combat any innate deficiencies they may have. Girls wear 킬힐's (kill-heel's, usually around 12~14cm or 5~6" American) and guys wear 깔창 (height boosting soles). Girls sometimes where 깔창 too when they opt for sneakers or Uggs. Heels are pretty common in the western world, so I won't go into them, but not many outside of Korea are familiar with the phenomenon of 깔창. Most males in Korea wear them, even if you are tall, because of the head-to-body ratio: you boost your height without increasing your head length, and your ratio naturally goes down. It is a must-have item for the shorter male celebrities.
Hail G-dragon, master of all 깔창-bearer's
깔창's vary in shape and height, and some even come attached to shoes. For example, my dress shoes have a 3.8cm heel, and I have soles that are about 3cm as well, so that's almost a 3-inch boost. I usually don't wear them together, because it kills my toes, except during job interviews, where every inch in your first impression counts. Not only does it make you look more aesthetically pleasing, it gives you a confidence boost. They are dirt cheap as well: any street vendor will sell you a set of 1, 2 and 3cm (they have these notches that allow them to stack as well, sort of like legos, so you can adjust the height depending on your taste) 깔창's for around $5 USD.
Part 2: Plastic Surgery and Makeup
원빈: short but shmexy
Your complexion is just as important, if not more important, than your height and body proportions; even if you are short, with a good complexion you can make up for it. For example, the celebrity pictured above is almost unanimously agreed upon as the best looking male Korean celebrity, even though his height barely pushes 5'9". In the male celebrity world, where 6'1"~6'2" is common, 5'9" is like Frodo Baggins status. Complexion plays a big part in the impression you make on people, and people in Korea sometimes go as far as characterize your personality based on your looks. I feel like this is a natural tendency regardless of your heritage, but in Korea, people are pretty blunt about it. If you are ugly, people will tell you that you are one ugly looking mother. The face can be roughly divided into two big elements: your features such as your eyes, nose and mouth, and your skin.
Your facial features include anything from your eyes, nose, ears and mouth, to your jawbones and forehead. Plastic surgery has become a HUGE phenomenon in Korea over the past 5 or so years, and nowadays you will be hard-pressed to find a girl who is past her teens and hasn't gotten some kind of surgery done. If you are looking in from a western perspective, honestly, it can be strange, but to Koreans, it's becoming accepted as mainstream due to several reasons. First, your marriage prospects open up, especially if you are a girl. Getting married to a good person is extremely important in Korea, as your social status is tied to your spouse's, and girls will do anything to upgrade their pool of potential husbands. Their career outlook also depends heavily on their looks, as Koreans still have very weak discrimination laws, and their superiors can hire the prettier one without as much as giving a second thought.
Sup, pre surgery SNSD (although to be fair this is their pre-surgery faces photoshopped onto a recent photo)
For an industry to grow, there must be supply where there is demand, and boy is there supply. Most med school students in Korea dream of being plastic surgeons or dermatologists, because they are the most high paying jobs with minimal hours and no risk of serious complications. Only the cream of the crop are selected from the national medical examination to become plastic surgeons, and the rest go into other fields in medicine. For example, my dermatologist, who is also a plastic surgeon, was literally the highest scorer on the national medical exam her year, and her husband, who is also a dermatologist/plastic surgeon, did pretty well on his exam as well. With such stiff competition, prices have been slashed, and technology has developed rapidly to the point that Korea has now become a plastic surgery-powerhouse.
With the surgeries becoming less and less invasive, and the prices dropping lower and lower, more and more people started getting it, to the point where eye and nose surgery is as common as getting braces. They don't even use knives for the eyes anymore: they use lasers and it takes less than 15 minutes. People started questioning what's the big deal, and to be honest, I personally don't see the difference between getting braces and a nose-job. Both alter your appearance through artificial means, and are minimally intrusive; if anything, I think braces are more invasive than lasers or electric hammers that cause micro-fractures all over your nose, which then heal into the shape you want. Anyway, that's just my two cents, and I'll stop there.
Even guys these days are getting plastic surgery: you can bet about half the male celebrities you see on TV got some kind of minor job done. I will just explain each feature in terms of surgeries you can get done on it, because that helps me outline the important facial features systematically.
박민영's journey through time
First, your eyes, there are four common surgeries you can get done: 앞트임, 뒷트임, 쌍꺼풀 and 애교살. 앞트임 and 뒷트임 lengthen your eye horizontally, while 쌍꺼풀 creates a double-eyelid, and 애교살 is the little bag under your eye that girls often get to emphasize their cuteness. You can also enhance your eyes in a non-surgical way through circle lens, which increase the radius of your iris and make you look more innocent. These days, guys without double eyelids are in, because it looks more manly, but big (or should I say long) eyes are still a plus so you can see a lot of guys getting 앞트임 and 뒷트임.
The next feature is the nose, where thin, sharp noses with a high nose-bridge are ideal. Honestly, there isn't an ideal shape, but just take a look at some celebrity shots and you'll know. It is probably one of the more important features on your face, because it is popular belief that having a big nose indicates that you are clumsy and dim-witted. Most of them got their noses done so you will quickly sense that they look very similar to one another. There are also non-surgical products that are aimed at altering the shape of your nose, but they are mostly scams. Surgery is the surefire way to go here.
Then there is your jaw, which requires heavy surgery. Your jawline determines the size and shape of your face, and this again ties back to the head-to-body ratio: having a smaller face is crucial, so girls will get this despite its relatively high costs ($20000+ USD) compared to other minor surgeries. The doctors literally take a saw to your jawbone and trim it off, so you can only eat through a straw the first few weeks after surgery, and the pain is overwhelming, apparently. Still, the effects are pretty dramatic, and I've seen girls turn their lives around with just one jaw surgery. There are also other minor surgeries that you can do on your forehead, your cheekbones and 팔자주름 (=lines on the sides of your mouth/nose).
One interesting side-note on the jawline, however: there are these specialized massages called 경락 where the masseuse squeezes muscles on your face over a period of 10 or so hour-long sessions, and the size of your face reduces dramatically. I didn't believe it until I saw it, and it really makes a big difference. Girls who don't want surgery often go for these massages, as they're not that expensive, either. I heard it hurts like hell the first few times, however. My mom came back home with tear-streaks the first time she got it from crying the whole hour.
Stork and acne-stork. Also notice his hairstyle change from shaggy to dandy, which I'll cover in a bit
Then there's skin. I can't stress this enough: having good skin is VERY important. You can be the best looking guy/girl in Korea, but if you have massive acne, you will join the ranks of other 오크녀/오크남's (=she-orks/he-orks). It's pretty common even in the western world for girls to seemingly use a billion facial products, ranging from cleanser, toner, astringent, moisturizing cream, sun block, eye cream, anti aging cream, mist, etc etc. However, it might come off as a surprise that guys in Korea use a similar array of products to take care of their skin. It's also pretty standard for guys to use this cream called BB cream (stands for Bobbi Brown I think) which makes your skin tone even and whiter. Now it's up to you to decide whether that's "gay" but I can assure you that none of my friends are homosexual and they all take good care of their skin (nor am I). The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다). Also, UV rays cause aging as well as spotting, so you will sometimes see 아줌마's parading the streets equipped in these Arabian looking masks in the summer:
I convinced my mom to opt for a hat and regular looking mask over this atrocity
Part 3: Hairdo, Body-type and Fashion
The final piece of outward appearance can be summed up as everything else. I tried to spearate them but ended up lumping them all together because they are all things that can be altered pretty easily. First, there's the hair-do, and I will only be focusing on male hair since I am a guy and girl hair I don't really know/care. The trends in hairstyle change very quickly, and if you walked down the streets in a shaggy cut or wolf cut that was popular in the mid 2000's, people would laugh at you, sometimes inside, and sometimes outright.
A walk down memory lane. This is the Wolf-cut, popular around 2003~2006
So what's the haircuts that are 'in' these days? There are only a few: there's the dandy, asymmetrical dandy, two-block, soft Mohican, bowl-cut (to emphasize cuteness), and regent-cut. If you have curly hair, you can just do whatever as long as it's not too all-over the place. Then the rare tied back hair if you can rock it, which not many can. Anything else and you look like shit. Why? Because the Korean populace as a whole decided so. I will include each haircut in the spoiler below, but overall, you can see a move away from the just-woke-up, all-over-the-place messiness and long pieces of hair sticking out into a neater, more classical look.
Of course, you can't just get the right haircut, because it will still look like shit. You have to style it properly using a combination of perms, blow-drying techniques, wax, and sometimes dyeing your hair. Most Koreans have straight hair that sticks up when short, so they get these perms called down-perms, which just make your sides and back go down instead of up. Also, to texturize the top of your hair, you can get a volume-magic perm, which, as the name implies, adds volume to it. Perms honestly make a big difference and many many guys get it. It runs up about $30~100 each time, and you get it renewed every 3~4 months. There are also blow drying techniques and apparel that help you achieve perm-like results, but they don't work very well and there is no substitution for getting a real perm. Once your hair is nicely permed, you shape it with wax. If you mess up and your hair looks oily/clumps up, you're fucked - you start the process over by washing it out, blow-drying your hair, and applying wax again.
This is a tool to keep your sideburns from sticking up. You put it on in the morning and take it off at work
Then comes body-type. For girls, skinny is the way to go. There is no other body-type. Get skinny or be prepared to have guys call you fat. For guys, it's a little more complex, because we have to work out and build muscle in key areas. The preferred body-type is still slender, but with some muscle tone and a little bulk. Wide shoulders are key. There's a popular turn of phrase 태평양어깨, which means shoulders as wide as the pacific ocean. The thing is, though, you can't have Dwight Howard-like shoulders; the ideal body frame is wide from the front and back but has a thin profile. Abs are always nice, and lean legs too. Some muscle tone in the arms and chest, along with bulk, but don't over-do it. One area to avoid bulking up at all costs: traps. Koreans will NOT work their traps, because it makes your body look bigger and thus fatter. This phenomenon of 짐승남(=beasty boy) over 꽃미남(=flowery boy) only started a few years back with the arrival of Rain and some other hunky kpop stars, and nowadays there are more females that seek manly guys than there are who seek flowery/pretty boys. Male celebrities these days are pretty much expected to have well-defined abs, barring a few that made it big with their 'fat' character.
원조짐승남, original beasty boy
Clothes are very much important, and the trend has always been fitted clothes - no matter how expensive the clothes are, how well the colors go well together, if they are not fitted, you look like shit (says the collective Korean populace). Even the clothes they call "baggy" are only baggy in certain areas, and fitted everywhere else. For example, baggy pants have loose crotch areas but tight fitting ankles and calves. The recent trend in male fashion has been casual-dandy, and I'm not sure what that translates into in English, but basically it's business casual with a slight emphasis on casual. Pea coats, one button blazers, button down shirts, cardigans, nice slacks and boat shoes or nice oxfords have been popular for a while now. More casual wear that is popular includes varsity baseball jackets, 야상잠바's (dunno how to translate this.. it's like a long-ish jacket that looks rugged - I'll include a picture), knits and sweaters, nice jeans, converse sneakers and baseball caps.
댄디룩 - Casual-dandy
야상잠바
Brand names are important, and this ties back to the mob mentality and superiority complex in Koreans - you do everything the same, yet try to one-up each other, which results in the "standards" for being in the upper echelon society being set quite high. For example, there is this stupid North face jacket that comes in red blue yellow green and black (I think) that literally EVERY middle and high school student in Korea must own. It is like it's a uniform, and it costs around $250. If you don't have one, you come from a poor family, so parents buy them one regardless of whether it's a smart financial decision for them to make or not. Same goes for the 아줌마's with their Louis Vuitton bags - gotta have one or you're "that" 아줌마 that's too poor to afford the niceties that life has to offer. It's probably a bad thing that any sense of individuality is lost within this movement to fit into the norm, but I gotta admit it sure is nice to not have to think about what clothes to pick out and just buy what every other person on the street wears.
Some high schoolers chillin like a pack of Skittles
Well, that's all I can think of for now. I think that gives you a comprehensive outline on the rules associated with outward appearance in Korean society. Hope you enjoyed this mini-tour into the mind of a Korean. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Sources: Again, my brain. Pictures are from the internet.
Sick blog! Very intresting, I know firebathero was mocked at school for having darker skin. I think lots of people being into fashion and looking good is nice, but the whole brandwhoring and and mocking other people for not looking normal is not.
On March 19 2012 05:51 hai2u wrote: makes me glad im not living in Korea.
for guys it's not bad, i mean we get by if we are not perfectly groomed. However, for most chicks...the culture can be harsh and very cruel.
Well, my daily routine is : shower, brush teeth, put on clothes that don't smell/have stains. I think I would not enjoy living in Korea.
Don't get me wrong I look acceptable and dress pretty well but to have to actually put in more effort than that in it is too much... I shave once or twice a week only (except when I'm working but I'm at university right now so screw that) because I'm lazy. I get my hair cut really short once every 5-6 months so it stays looking acceptable for a long period of time instead of going often.
I have bad skin and lose skin pretty much all over my face. It's not too bad but some days it's very obvious even with cream. Apparently that would be terrible in Korea.
Honestly even my normal routine is tedious. Following fashion is something I will definitely never do and it seems, from this post, that it's the norm in Korea.
haha, teh fuck. This is so... Extreme. I feel like such an ugly motherfucker right now. Happy I don't live in Korea lol. How many hours each day do you think people in Korea are busy trying to improve their appearance?
very very nice blog. I will be very interested to see more of the korean coulture it is very different from my own coulture, far more stricter then here in Sweden.
Fascinating blog. I used to brush off talk of Koreans as being too superficial and obsessed with looks because every culture has that to some extent but the Koreans take it to the next level. As a 5'7" (170cm) tall guy, I'm glad I'm not Korean. That's not to say Americans focus too much on appearance too, but at least nobody has ever given me shit for being a plain looking guy.
Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
I should have said a KOREAN acting like a foreigner.. :p my bad lol yea Korean girls do have a fantasy for milky white skin and blue eyes. The anti-American bit is only for cultural and political reasons, not the actual individual's heritage, so a commoner wouldn't give a shit about whether you're American or Canadian while they would beat up their friend if he/she started speaking Korean with an English accent on purpose
Damn. No wonder korea always loses to china and taiwan in olympiads, it's because they have to spend so much time worrying about this shit instead of nerd-ballering it up basement dweller style.
The alternative route to Korean-defined success for men would be to study your ass off, get into a first-rate college, land a high-paying job, and rake in the dough. Then you can do whatever you want and people will flock help you do it.
On March 19 2012 06:40 LunarC wrote: The alternative route to Korean-defined success for men would be to study your ass off, get into a first-rate college, land a high-paying job, and rake in the dough. Then you can do whatever you want and people will flock help you do it.
I actually have two related (not really) questions about SK culture, based on stuff I've heard/read second hand (how do you read something second hand? I don't know).
Both relate to how things are in Canada.
Basically its about pot and homosexuality. Marijuana possession caries pretty soft punishment here. It's been on the verge of legalization for years and, probably sometime during our next government, will be de-criminalized. Its a pretty big part of the culture for a lot of young people. I heard in SK the cops are very serious about grass. People get serious prison time for smoking a joint. Its sounds crazy to me- is it true?
The other one is homosexuality. It's pretty much a non-issue in Canada's cities (ignoring red neck corn farming areas). Gay marriage is legal, and gay culture is celebrated openly. No one (almost no one) cares if you're gay or straight. I heard in SK there's still huge stigma's against gay people. Is that true? Is gay marriage legal there?
On March 19 2012 06:40 LunarC wrote: The alternative route to Korean-defined success for men would be to study your ass off, get into a first-rate college, land a high-paying job, and rake in the dough. Then you can do whatever you want and people will flock help you do it.
On March 19 2012 06:40 LunarC wrote: The alternative route to Korean-defined success for men would be to study your ass off, get into a first-rate college, land a high-paying job, and rake in the dough. Then you can do whatever you want and people will flock help you do it.
And as a woman?
You can do the same, but it will be hard... or if you are good-looking, try becoming an actress. If you can't do both... then well, good luck finding true happiness.
On March 19 2012 06:42 Lexpar wrote: I actually have two related (not really) questions about SK culture, based on stuff I've heard/read second hand (how do you read something second hand? I don't know).
Both relate to how things are in Canada.
Basically its about pot and homosexuality. Marijuana possession caries pretty soft punishment here. It's been on the verge of legalization for years and, probably sometime during our next government, will be de-criminalized. Its a pretty big part of the culture for a lot of young people. I heard in SK the cops are very serious about grass. People get serious prison time for smoking a joint. Its sounds crazy to me- is it true?
The other one is homosexuality. It's pretty much a non-issue in Canada's cities (ignoring red neck corn farming areas). Gay marriage is legal, and gay culture is celebrated openly. No one (almost no one) cares if you're gay or straight. I heard in SK there's still huge stigma's against gay people. Is that true? Is gay marriage legal there?
Pot: It is a HUGE issue, you will get prison time. When I first came to the US somebody offered me a joint and I thought it was a cig, so when i was about to smoke it I smelled something else and asked wtf is this? and they said marijuana... so I kind of just ran away lol yea you will get in big trouble if you are caught smoking a joint
Homosexuality: It's pretty much a non-issue in Korea as well, but in that it's just not spoken about much. Homosexuality is still a pretty taboo subject in Korea and they keep to themselves. Honestly I don't have much insight into this because I only have 1 gay Korean friend and we don't talk about it.
On March 19 2012 06:48 blubbdavid wrote: rotinegg, do you know "The Grand Narrative"?
After reading through this blog, I finally understand why my mom keeps telling me it's good that I have a small head. I'm 5'5'' with a 1: 7.5 ratio. What the fuck does that make me haha.
Haha I definitely do notice how tall other Korean guys are but I never care about the height of my white friends. It's pretty funny. I can't complain about my height (5'9) but obviously it would have been cool to have an extra two inches. Oh well, there are so many other things we should be thankful for.
The Korean culture on looks is so harsh. I feel bad for the Korean ladies.
On March 19 2012 06:51 LunarC wrote: After reading through this blog, I finally understand why my mom keeps telling me it's good that I have a small head. I'm 5'5'' with a 1: 7.5 ratio. What the fuck does that make me haha.
Hahaha my head is HUGE. I wonder what my ratio is.
On March 19 2012 06:42 Lexpar wrote: I actually have two related (not really) questions about SK culture, based on stuff I've heard/read second hand (how do you read something second hand? I don't know).
Both relate to how things are in Canada.
Basically its about pot and homosexuality. Marijuana possession caries pretty soft punishment here. It's been on the verge of legalization for years and, probably sometime during our next government, will be de-criminalized. Its a pretty big part of the culture for a lot of young people. I heard in SK the cops are very serious about grass. People get serious prison time for smoking a joint. Its sounds crazy to me- is it true?
The other one is homosexuality. It's pretty much a non-issue in Canada's cities (ignoring red neck corn farming areas). Gay marriage is legal, and gay culture is celebrated openly. No one (almost no one) cares if you're gay or straight. I heard in SK there's still huge stigma's against gay people. Is that true? Is gay marriage legal there?
I have been really interested in korean entertainment and culture for 2-3 years and know only this one actor or comedian ( bald) who openly says that he's gay, I dont know what the public opinion n him is though and I've read in many blogs now that Homosexuality is one of the big taboo topics.
On March 19 2012 06:51 LunarC wrote: After reading through this blog, I finally understand why my mom keeps telling me it's good that I have a small head. I'm 5'5'' with a 1: 7.5 ratio. What the fuck does that make me haha.
Hahaha my head is HUGE. I wonder what my ratio is.
Hmmm. I have a sort of long slender face, so it's definitely nowhere near 1:8 for me. Does that mean a cute korean girl will never love me? ;_;
Shit.. it's really interesting and I see how it's like the Chinese when it comes to doing stupid shit for "face". I'd imagine Japan would be similar too?
Question: how to these teens pay for their plastic surgeries? isn't it really expensive. seems like a huge economic hit if everyone in your family is getting them.
On March 19 2012 07:13 JoeSchmoe wrote: Question: how to these teens pay for their plastic surgeries? isn't it really expensive. seems like a huge economic hit if everyone in your family is getting them.
Not a lot of old people get them, only the insanely rich/wannabe-young. Botox is pretty common, but it's not that expensive as far as I know. Eye jobs are only around $1000 USD, not a big investment, so a lot of parents give their daughters eye jobs as a high school graduation present, sort of like how US parents get their kids a car.
nice blog. really enjoyable read. Wow it does seem as though if you're not perfect you are not good enough. I bet it's amazing for combating obesity though and it's nice to see people taking pride in their appearance.
So I was going to post a semi-serious comment on this thread... but then I saw this.
I'm a guy, and I've had quite a large number of Asian female friends tell me I could pull off the Korean look if I bothered to dress well (too cheap, gogo free college t-shirts and sale racks at the mall ayyyyy). Uhh... yay?
I always have the idea that if I go to korea I would feel weird being so much taller then the rest (1.92m), but I geuss my head to body ratio is pretty awesome .
On March 19 2012 07:13 JoeSchmoe wrote: Question: how to these teens pay for their plastic surgeries? isn't it really expensive. seems like a huge economic hit if everyone in your family is getting them.
Not a lot of old people get them, only the insanely rich/wannabe-young. Botox is pretty common, but it's not that expensive as far as I know. Eye jobs are only around $1000 USD, not a big investment, so a lot of parents give their daughters eye jobs as a high school graduation present, sort of like how US parents get their kids a car.
On March 19 2012 07:22 Dwelf wrote: I always have the idea that if I go to korea I would feel weird being so much taller then the rest (1.92m), but I geuss my head to body ratio is pretty awesome .
if you go out at night there will be a lot of guys around your height, but yea your head to body ratio will be amazing and you will see the guys explode with jealousy
On March 19 2012 07:13 JoeSchmoe wrote: Question: how to these teens pay for their plastic surgeries? isn't it really expensive. seems like a huge economic hit if everyone in your family is getting them.
Not a lot of old people get them, only the insanely rich/wannabe-young. Botox is pretty common, but it's not that expensive as far as I know. Eye jobs are only around $1000 USD, not a big investment, so a lot of parents give their daughters eye jobs as a high school graduation present, sort of like how US parents get their kids a car.
What's an eye job? O_O
Any combination of the eye surgeries mentioned in the OP
On March 19 2012 06:51 LunarC wrote: After reading through this blog, I finally understand why my mom keeps telling me it's good that I have a small head. I'm 5'5'' with a 1: 7.5 ratio. What the fuck does that make me haha.
Hahaha my head is HUGE. I wonder what my ratio is.
Hmmm. I have a sort of long slender face, so it's definitely nowhere near 1:8 for me. Does that mean a cute korean girl will never love me? ;_;
Clearly, the answer is to get a plain Korean girl and pay for her plastic surgery.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
The anti-American bit is only for cultural and political reasons
Could you go into the cultural reasons? And not to derail the topic, but does the average Korean with anti-American political sentiments understand how that incredibly quick rise in standard of living came about? Neither advocating nor condoning American policies, it just seems rather ironic.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
On March 19 2012 07:22 Dwelf wrote: I always have the idea that if I go to korea I would feel weird being so much taller then the rest (1.92m), but I geuss my head to body ratio is pretty awesome .
if you go out at night there will be a lot of guys around your height, but yea your head to body ratio will be amazing and you will see the guys explode with jealousy
On March 19 2012 07:13 JoeSchmoe wrote: Question: how to these teens pay for their plastic surgeries? isn't it really expensive. seems like a huge economic hit if everyone in your family is getting them.
Not a lot of old people get them, only the insanely rich/wannabe-young. Botox is pretty common, but it's not that expensive as far as I know. Eye jobs are only around $1000 USD, not a big investment, so a lot of parents give their daughters eye jobs as a high school graduation present, sort of like how US parents get their kids a car.
What's an eye job? O_O
Any combination of the eye surgeries mentioned in the OP
When I lived and worked in Korea it was really harsh. I'm pretty short, have bad skin, and fairly small eyes and my co-workers and friends always teased me about my looks. I used to not care about my appearance that much until I went to Korea. It scarred me so...
When I read this I was completely shocked how shallow Korean society is. I always had heard of stuff like plastic surgery on TL but this whole clothes and body proportions thing seemed insane to me. After thinking about it for a while though, I've come to the conclusion that it's only weird to me because I didn't grow up in such a society. If everyone around you is like this it's just normal. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I/we shouldn't be so quick to judge and at least consider cultural differences that are rooted in the history of a country. Anyways, great blog. Also thanks for all the translating you're doing.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
The anti-American bit is only for cultural and political reasons
Could you go into the cultural reasons? And not to derail the topic, but does the average Korean with anti-American political sentiments understand how that incredibly quick rise in standard of living came about? Neither advocating nor condoning American policies, it just seems rather ironic.
So we have a US military base close to our capital and US soldiers sometimes come out during breaks and rape teenagers, but go unpunished for their deeds under the protection of US laws. They've done some pretty nasty things like commit genocide in the past also, but those are small reasons. There was always this anti-American sentiment lurking since the US intervened in the Korean war and split our country in half. I personally disagree and am glad that the US did that, but a lot of old people believe we would be a unified country without foreign intervention. Honestly, though, as stupid as this may sound, the straw that broke the donkey's back came with Apollo Ohno's speed skating incident, where he may or may not have taken away a gold medal from a Korean speed skater 김동성. That's when I remember all the anti-US sentiments pouring out, and the next president 노무현 rode that anti-American wave well into office, and further enhanced it during his term with his North Korea-friendly policies and being an outspoken nationalist who boasted he never set foot in the US before his presidency. I remember this song that came out after the speed-skating incident called FUCKING USA and half of its lyrics were like YANKEE GO HOME FUCKING USA lol. I'm not an expert on this matter but we have alot of protests against US foreign policies, like the FDA trade agreement.
Actually i found the song on youtube lol enjoy! It even has English lyrics as subtitles haha
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
Yea I'm sorry man didn't mean to offend anyone just wanted to be honest about what goes on. Sorry that offended you. A lot of them folks come to Korea looking for better living conditions and work opportunities, yet they are discriminated against and cheated out of their salary because Koreans can be pretty ruthless when they know they have the upper hand, so they are usually living in poverty, and commoners think they are all poor.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
It's just a statement of fact. I don't think he's endorsing this viewpoint. It may be hard to grasp for someone who's accustomed to a mixed society like in the UK or US, but racism is quite common and rampant in Asian countries. It's quite common in largely homogeneous societies in general.
Well now after reading it all I feel kinda terrible to have called Stats plastictoss for a while lol. I know the guy had surgery out of medical problems with his chin but I could understand him now if he had just done it purely out of cosmetic reasons.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
The anti-American bit is only for cultural and political reasons
Could you go into the cultural reasons? And not to derail the topic, but does the average Korean with anti-American political sentiments understand how that incredibly quick rise in standard of living came about? Neither advocating nor condoning American policies, it just seems rather ironic.
Well, to be fair the industrialization happened when the South was under authoritarian regimes (I hesitate to say because/in spite of being under authoritarian regimes because I don't think anyone knows, and I don't want to commit the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc). Democracy in the ROK is pretty home-grown, although as a simple matter of security the country probably owes its existence to the UN intervention in the 50s.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I don't think you need to be offended that rotinegg stated a simple fact that people in the world have prejudices.
On March 19 2012 07:33 ruXxar wrote: I have curly hair. Could you give some examples of how they style curly hair in korea? (picture samples are bonus ^^)
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
Yea I'm sorry man didn't mean to offend anyone just wanted to be honest about what goes on. Sorry that offended you. A lot of them folks come to Korea looking for better living conditions and work opportunities, yet they are discriminated against and cheated out of their salary because Koreans can be pretty ruthless when they know they have the upper hand, so they are usually living in poverty, and commoners think they are all poor.
Don't feel bad, you just told how it is and the guy went batshit crazy.
Nice blog btw, really interesting seeing what the koreans see as good looking and how they try to achieve beautiness.
Here in brazil if a guy uses make up he gets mocked to death.
On March 19 2012 07:30 surfinbird1 wrote: When I read this I was completely shocked how shallow Korean society is. I always had heard of stuff like plastic surgery on TL but this whole clothes and body proportions thing seemed insane to me. After thinking about it for a while though, I've come to the conclusion that it's only weird to me because I didn't grow up in such a society. If everyone around you is like this it's just normal. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I/we shouldn't be so quick to judge and at least consider cultural differences that are rooted in the history of a country. Anyways, great blog. Also thanks for all the translating you're doing.
I agree to some extent, but I believe that many people are just born or predisposed to be more individualistic. Personally, I would hate to live in a society that has such strict expectations of its constituents.
Apart from that shoop of my girls, I really liked your blog. It's very informative and gives a nice perspective about some things one wouldn't think about every day.
For a society that pays so much attention to appearance, I have to say most high school students look pretty terrible from what I've seen.
On March 19 2012 07:33 ruXxar wrote: I have curly hair. Could you give some examples of how they style curly hair in korea? (picture samples are bonus ^^)
Is it like curly curly or sorta curly? If it's curly curly and you don't like it, you can't really do anything about it T_T sorry... get a straightening perm or straighten it with a straightener. If it's sorta curly, then you can go with the shorter varieties of the haircuts mentioned in the OP, like the soft mohican or regent cut. One thing that's good about sorta curly hair is you never have to worry about your sideburns and backhair sticking up with short hair, so you have the freedom to rock shorter hair without much hassle. Us straight hairs have to go to great lengths to prevent that from happening.
To be honest, from a western perspective, I felt a tiny bit nauseous reading about all the plastic surgery stuff and had to scroll through the rest so I didn't have to read more about it. I didn't think that these superficial issues like height, looks, shape, fucking ratios of head to body length (seriously, wtf) were that bad in Korea. As other people in the thread have said, I'm like ~176cm or so and the OP makes me happy not to be a Korean in Korea right now.
As a current student of Korean at university, this makes me somewhat disappointed in the culture and language that I'm studying (although this explains why pretty much all the other students in my class are the way they are), although I do realise that this is only a recent manifestation and it would be stupid to disregard all other history and culture for this. I hope that I can find something that will make me not so disappointed.
Also, I read the other guy's blog about kpop, etc and I personally think that this blog proved his point rather showing how wrong he was.
On March 19 2012 07:53 Suc wrote: To be honest, from a western perspective, I felt a tiny bit nauseous reading about all the plastic surgery stuff and had to scroll through the rest so I didn't have to read more about it. I didn't think that these superficial issues like height, looks, shape, fucking ratios of head to body length (seriously, wtf) were that bad in Korea. As other people in the thread have said, I'm like ~176cm or so and the OP makes me happy not to be a Korean in Korea right now.
As a current student of Korean at university, this makes me somewhat disappointed in the culture and language that I'm studying (although this explains why pretty much all the other students in my class are the way they are), although I do realise that this is only a recent manifestation and it would be stupid to disregard all other history and culture for this. I hope that I can find something that will make me not so disappointed.
Also, I read the other guy's blog about kpop, etc and I personally think that this blog proved his point rather showing how wrong he was.
Good point, I also realized that when I was in the middle of writing the blog so decided to leave out all of my opinions. All of it felt so natural to me because I grew up submerged in it but writing it out in words made me look at it from an outsider's perspective, and I can see why this would disgust some people.
On March 19 2012 07:53 Suc wrote: To be honest, from a western perspective, I felt a tiny bit nauseous reading about all the plastic surgery stuff and had to scroll through the rest so I didn't have to read more about it. I didn't think that these superficial issues like height, looks, shape, fucking ratios of head to body length (seriously, wtf) were that bad in Korea. As other people in the thread have said, I'm like ~176cm or so and the OP makes me happy not to be a Korean in Korea right now.
As a current student of Korean at university, this makes me somewhat disappointed in the culture and language that I'm studying (although this explains why pretty much all the other students in my class are the way they are), although I do realise that this is only a recent manifestation and it would be stupid to disregard all other history and culture for this. I hope that I can find something that will make me not so disappointed.
Also, I read the other guy's blog about kpop, etc and I personally think that this blog proved his point rather showing how wrong he was.
even china and japan has these harsh elements. the U.S.A. has them too. It's just that Korea is much more guilty of this superficiality.
people I must ask that you do not judge koreans due to some of the general behaviors that we exhibit. There are many that don't give a fuck about this kind of stuff and will not judge you on appearances alone. Korea can be a great place for foreigners, so do not be scared!
On March 19 2012 07:53 Suc wrote: To be honest, from a western perspective, I felt a tiny bit nauseous reading about all the plastic surgery stuff and had to scroll through the rest so I didn't have to read more about it. I didn't think that these superficial issues like height, looks, shape, fucking ratios of head to body length (seriously, wtf) were that bad in Korea. As other people in the thread have said, I'm like ~176cm or so and the OP makes me happy not to be a Korean in Korea right now.
As a current student of Korean at university, this makes me somewhat disappointed in the culture and language that I'm studying (although this explains why pretty much all the other students in my class are the way they are), although I do realise that this is only a recent manifestation and it would be stupid to disregard all other history and culture for this. I hope that I can find something that will make me not so disappointed.
Also, I read the other guy's blog about kpop, etc and I personally think that this blog proved his point rather showing how wrong he was.
Good point, I also realized that when I was in the middle of writing the blog so decided to leave out all of my opinions. All of it felt so natural to me because I grew up submerged in it but writing it out in words made me look at it from an outsider's perspective, and I can see why this would disgust some people.
Yeah, to me it's not a thing I recommend to anyone but that's because it's not as common to me as an idea I would pursue, and I certainly didn't grow up with it. Is it really common now too? I asked a noona (is that even how you spell it) earlier and she said that it's really common for people to get certain surgeries as early as gr. 7-8 just because how important looking good is for university and society.
last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
On March 19 2012 08:15 Skilledblob wrote: last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
that implication please lets leave that of of this blog^^
@OP very great read 5/5 only wished you left out the Park min Young Picture I know it soudns ignorant but I don't wanna see those pics about one of my favourite actresses haha^^
On March 19 2012 08:15 Skilledblob wrote: last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
not mafia, but older people will definitely not look at it nicely, and your peers won't wanna mess with you
On March 19 2012 08:15 Skilledblob wrote: last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
that implication please lets leave that of of this blog^^
@OP very great read 5/5 only wished you left out the Park min Young Picture I know it soudns ignorant but I don't wanna see those pics about one of my favourite actresses haha^^
Ahh sorry... a lot of people tell my lady she looks like 박민영 and she gets fake-upset saying 'but she got all that surgery and i'm natural! are you saying I look artificial?' So when I thought of a celebrity with plastic surgery, she came to mind first haha
On March 19 2012 07:53 Suc wrote: To be honest, from a western perspective, I felt a tiny bit nauseous reading about all the plastic surgery stuff and had to scroll through the rest so I didn't have to read more about it. I didn't think that these superficial issues like height, looks, shape, fucking ratios of head to body length (seriously, wtf) were that bad in Korea. As other people in the thread have said, I'm like ~176cm or so and the OP makes me happy not to be a Korean in Korea right now.
As a current student of Korean at university, this makes me somewhat disappointed in the culture and language that I'm studying (although this explains why pretty much all the other students in my class are the way they are), although I do realise that this is only a recent manifestation and it would be stupid to disregard all other history and culture for this. I hope that I can find something that will make me not so disappointed.
Also, I read the other guy's blog about kpop, etc and I personally think that this blog proved his point rather showing how wrong he was.
Good point, I also realized that when I was in the middle of writing the blog so decided to leave out all of my opinions. All of it felt so natural to me because I grew up submerged in it but writing it out in words made me look at it from an outsider's perspective, and I can see why this would disgust some people.
Yeah, to me it's not a thing I recommend to anyone but that's because it's not as common to me as an idea I would pursue, and I certainly didn't grow up with it. Is it really common now too? I asked a noona (is that even how you spell it) earlier and she said that it's really common for people to get certain surgeries as early as gr. 7-8 just because how important looking good is for university and society.
yea sadly it's true, and I'm against plastic surgery before high school under any situation, cuz you're not done growing. There are more extreme surgeries too, like one where they break your shin in multiple spots, pull the pieces apart slightly, and insert a supporting metal rod so that when your shins heal your legs are longer.
Considering hairdos: What do Koreans think about bald people? As most "foreigners" would rate buff and bald guys like Khaldor as quite good looking (if they don't excessively overdo the buff part), how do Khaldor or Vin Diesel look like to the average Korean?
On March 19 2012 08:23 shin ken wrote: Very informative post!
Considering hairdos: What do Koreans think about bald people? As most "foreigners" would rate buff and bald guys like Khaldor as quite good looking (if they don't excessively overdo the buff part), how do Khaldor or Vin Diesel look like to the average Korean?
Im not sure who khaldor is but a lot of people think vin diesel is good looking. The thing is, though, his bald hair goes really well with his macho persona, while there aren't a lot of Koreans that have that sort of build / give off that aura. They say Korean males are 70% face and 30% hair so even the best looking celebrities would have a tough time rocking a shaved head. Baldness is avoided at all costs through the use of medication/hair implants, except this one gay celebrity named 홍석천. He rocks it with pride.
Concerning those The North Face Jackets, I even read an interesting article not too long ago where people stole them from others jsut to have one and the 250$ one is for the "commoners" while the "boss/rich" wears the 600$ Parka. Part of the reason was that BigBang was endorsing them and that it is a foreign brand, again showing certain wealth I guess.
About the Louis Vuitton bags, are people, similar with the jackets, going for the originals although it's not very smart financially for the living standard? I know from the german based vietnamese community that ALOT just buy a fake one, but wear them around and acting like they are some kind of highroller baller.... really annoying.
I've got one more question: Isn't there some kind of counter-culture/movement (like old school punk etc.)? I would imagine that there are at least some people protesting against the system/society. (Maybe that's just my german mindset ^^)
On March 19 2012 08:15 Skilledblob wrote: last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
not mafia, but older people will definitely not look at it nicely, and your peers won't wanna mess with you
do you have an idea why it is that way?
On March 19 2012 08:37 shin ken wrote: I've got one more question: Isn't there some kind of counter-culture/movement (like old school punk etc.)? I would imagine that there are at least some people protesting against the system/society. (Maybe that's just my german mindset ^^)
german mindset would be to bow down and say "yes ofcourse"
Now I want to know my head to body ratio haha. Thanks for the insight, much appreciated ! People would probably spit on my uglyness in Korea given how far I am from the standard :p
Interesting read indeed, i was aware of the obsession with the jawbone but the rest was relatively new to me. Well atleast there seems to be some sort of "fix" for all the things that are looked on in a negative way even tho it can be viewed as slightly extreme for a foreigner having to go through so many process in order to be "ideal", specially for the girls/womens. And i doubt them korean ladies would stand much of a bigger chance of success in the western world in any regards as you rarely see them being on the peoples "top beauty list" both natural and with jobs done, shame;/
Im still curious how the average "teenager" korean girl can afford all these surgeries considering many of them actually do this.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
This is absolutely untrue. Most Koreans are huge pussies and would never fight, because they aren't used to fighting and it's looked down upon. Even drunk, pissed off Koreans have walked away when myself or friends actually showed them that we were about to gnaw their faces if they didn't go the hell away. Now, if you're a foreigner looking for a fight, you're also a complete retard and probably hang out in Itaewon.
There is a kind of misunderstood mystique about foreigners, and they can get away with a bit more than Koreans. We aren't really subjected completely to the same standards, but at least 50% subjected. Now, this is bad news if you want to actually fit in with Koreans, because you REALLY have to have it going on to be considered attractive out there. Even if you are really good looking, most Korean girls actually worth dating will not consider foreign guys unless you know a fair deal about their own culture and give it preference over your own. If you can't speak Korean or at least read and write, you have roughly no hope. Yes, you can get easy girls that are enthralled with white guys, but they generally suck. Think of them as if they are the anime freaks from middle America that trek out to Japan because they have no friends here—basically equivalent. People are so worried about how many "notches" they can achieve while in Korea, but if you know the truth about girls there, 100 notches isn't even worth 0.5 of one that is truly S-class.
I agree with this post, but I would say that only the top 5% of Koreans actually pull off these looks and styles as well as the super famous examples given. Your average person presents a kind of watered down attempt at these looks. Overall, however, it's far better than the attention that appearance gets in the States. If you're a foreigner with a haircut as good as one of these, you're already ahead of 95% of the foreigners in Korea. If you wear good clothes, add another 1~2%. If you know how to speak a bit, add another 1%. If you know common K-popular culture, add 1%. If you can drink minimum 3 bottles of soju by yourself in a single night, add another 1%. If you aren't an English teacher, add the final 1%. You win. GG Korea, GG earth.
Then, after you achieve this and live in the path of darkness for X amount of years, you see through everything for what it is and don't give a rip anymore and wonder what the point of your life is if all you cared about was this garbage Koreans seemed to be obsessed with.
Very interesting! I was all fired to head to korea some day and hang out with my korean godfather but I must say I hadn't really appreciated how different the culture I would be jumping into would be. I've been a few other places but I feel like this would be a much more difficult adjustment than eastern europe or brazil.
I was aware asian cultures are known for embedded racism so that doesn't shock me too much. I don't know what I'd do if I realized I were seeing it in action though... that would be uncomfortable to say the least.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
then I guess I shouldn't mention that a lot of Koreans hate Japanese people too
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
then I guess I shouldn't mention that a lot of Koreans hate Japanese people too
I don't see how that can be fucking disgusting, it's just pure fact.
The views of Koreans have changed little by little over the ages, but still not that good when it comes to darker skinned people.
The worst part about us koreans, is that we're too judgemental. First glance, bad impressuon, GG. When I went back to korea for a vacation, I had the 태양 (Tayeyang) haircut. Everyone, I mean everyone stared at me. Right away they probably had a bad impression of me, and thought I was probably some shady kid. Anyhow, I'm not saying I'm not judgemental, I judge people all the time. But, in Korea it's destructive. Since most of the korean girls don't look that good (I mean come on school girls, wtf is up with the bowlcut-esque hairstyle?!? Why do you make yourself ugly...), you will be looked down upon. Korea is a tough place to live in.
Oh, and please take out the booming economy. The economy is hardly what you can call "booming".
Wow, such an interesting read. Ever since I discovered the esports scene I've also been really interested in the Korean culture, specifically this: fashion and looks. I've even grown my hair out, something I had never done before as I always had it short; also been more selective about the brand of clothes I wear, especially shoes (since I've always worn your $20 shoes from the local department store for my whole life). Thank you for this!
On March 19 2012 08:55 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, as someone who knows next to nothing about Korea (outside of the food, which is all pretty tasty), lets say I'm 6'5"....what's the next step?
XD
If you're korean? Go out to clubs, keep your face nice and healthy, and there will be some nice ones aiming for you
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
This is absolutely untrue. Most Koreans are huge pussies and would never fight, because they aren't used to fighting and it's looked down upon. Even drunk, pissed off Koreans have walked away when myself or friends actually showed them that we were about to gnaw their faces if they didn't go the hell away. Now, if you're a foreigner looking for a fight, you're also a complete retard and probably hang out in Itaewon.
Yea normally not, but I've had a few friends who got into fights with regular joes at clubs and got their asses beat outside of the club for rolling their R's too hard
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
Generally a no-no, but like you said a few pull it off really well. Guys grow it out to look manlier and more sinister, and that's about all I know.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
then I guess I shouldn't mention that a lot of Koreans hate Japanese people too
That's different though, we have a reason to be mad at Japan as a nation. Watching documentaries on that shit gets me fucking steamed so i won't say much.
On March 19 2012 08:31 AsnSensation wrote: Concerning those The North Face Jackets, I even read an interesting article not too long ago where people stole them from others jsut to have one and the 250$ one is for the "commoners" while the "boss/rich" wears the 600$ Parka. Part of the reason was that BigBang was endorsing them and that it is a foreign brand, again showing certain wealth I guess.
About the Louis Vuitton bags, are people, similar with the jackets, going for the originals although it's not very smart financially for the living standard? I know from the german based vietnamese community that ALOT just buy a fake one, but wear them around and acting like they are some kind of highroller baller.... really annoying.
not sure if they're all real, my mom never buys fakes for her stuff cuz she says they're obvious... I have no idea how she tells but I guess if you can tell it's a fake it's a pride thing so no..
On March 19 2012 08:37 shin ken wrote: I've got one more question: Isn't there some kind of counter-culture/movement (like old school punk etc.)? I would imagine that there are at least some people protesting against the system/society. (Maybe that's just my german mindset ^^)
I know there's a vibrant hiphop culture in the 강북 area, and a whole underground rap/hiphop movement but even they operate somewhat within the confines of society. Can't really say much else cuz my knowledge in the area is limited haha sorry
On March 19 2012 08:15 Skilledblob wrote: last time we measured head size here it was not because of some weird beauty ideals. Nonetheless it was an interesting read.
Do Koreans have similar feelings towards tattoos like the japanese have? As far as I understand it in Japan tattoos are seen as a sign of mafia affiliation and thus shunned. It would interest me if it's the same in Korea.
not mafia, but older people will definitely not look at it nicely, and your peers won't wanna mess with you
do you have an idea why it is that way?
Confucian idealogy runs deep in Korean history and they prohibit you from mutilating your body in any way, including hair. Up until not even 100 years ago, males used to not cut their hair because it was part of your precious body inherited from your parents, and there was an outrage when the Japanese took over and forced them to get haircuts and change their last names to a Japanese surname, many choosing to end their lives instead. That, plus it's pretty much unthinkable to get a tattoo for a goody goody Korean student growing up within the confines of his or her parent's house.
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
I'd like to know that as well!
I'm like 6'4" with a body ratio around 1:8.5, white, blonde and blue-eyed. All great right? Nah! I also happen to have 2'6" hair and a 1' beard so I'm basicly an axe away from a viking so I assume I wouldnt do so good in SK after all ^^
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
I'd like to know that as well!
I'm like 6'4" with a body ratio around 1:8.5, white, blonde and blue-eyed. All great right? Nah! I also happen to have 2'6" hair and a 1' beard so I'm basicly an axe away from a viking so I assume I wouldnt do so good in SK after all ^^
Well, you're getting all the Swedish metal girls at the Opeth/AmonAmarth/AtTheGates/Meshuggah/Tiamat/InFlames concerts, at least.
Its obvious that people everywhere are superficial, but its crazy to see it all laid out like that, and how even their superficialness(word?) conforms to basically be all the same.
That being said, my best friend's very serious girlfriend is from Korea, and is very cute, but its crazy to hear her talk about herself, and to hear all the insecurities that Korean life has instilled in her. Also my friend is a 6'3 lanky, milky white dude so I guess that IS how you get the korean girls, lol.
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
glad i live in the USA. I mean, sure, we can be pretty harsh sometimes some places but Korea seems over the top. There's a certain manliness in not caring too much that I think would be nice for them to learn to appreciate.
Wow, is this similar to the way it works in Japan or China? Everything I hear about Korea makes it sound pretty crazy and judgmental. Also are the other Asian countries as racist?
Don't mean to be too harsh simplifying an entire society, but if you think about current culture and it's view on other cultures compared to Korea's own history, Koreans seem quite petty. Going from poverty to where they are now so quickly has Koreans showing their collective inferiority complex quite blatantly. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot about the culture, too, but it is pretty disgusting how quick they are to look down their noses at other "poor" societies.
Whoever people who keep saying USA is just as bad or worse you have no idea what your talking about. We still respect the "get it done, down to earth people" mentality and respect uniqueness.
you people hate the USA, never been here, and only know about it from reading TL.
Of course, as a nation Koreans have a reason to be mad at Japan, and Japanese do too.
I just stay out of the wildfire because I'm not involved in the actual discussions or events dealing with both of these countries, nor have lived in the Japanese imperial days (P.S. I know and have talked to someone who did).
EDIT: I just ended up going to arcades, movies, and Proleague while doing other personal stuff while I was in Korea. It was all good. Best part was when someone randomly high-fived me on the streets of Shinchon after seeing my CMU shirt, saying that he was an alumni.
On March 19 2012 08:55 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, as someone who knows next to nothing about Korea (outside of the food, which is all pretty tasty), lets say I'm 6'5"....what's the next step?
XD
If you're korean? Go out to clubs, keep your face nice and healthy, and there will be some nice ones aiming for you
On March 19 2012 09:33 IntoTheheart wrote: Koreans, how much hate is there for mainland Chinese people or are we pretty much mellow?
So.. to be completely honest... we hate mainland Chinese people :x
On March 19 2012 09:33 DLChucklesSP wrote: This is so sad, Korea must be sucha a lonely place, it's like a science-fiction dystopia, Brave New World comes to mind.
There are other elements in Korean life that more than make up for it. I just decided to focus on the most superficial element in its society.
On March 19 2012 09:33 IntoTheheart wrote: Koreans, how much hate is there for mainland Chinese people or are we pretty much mellow?
So.. to be completely honest... we hate mainland Chinese people :x
Hm. I'm not too surprised in all honesty. Relations aren't exactly thawed since the invasion(s) I'm guessing. And there's other stuff we've done recently.
What the hell does it mean when Koreans say 'you have a small face’? My co-teachers said that all the time and I understand it’s meant to be a complement but it doesn't make any sense to me.
Good effort on your post by the way. Looks like you put a lot of effort in and its very informative.
I've learned very much I have to shave everyday before work and always make my hair smart and where aftershave. Living in Korea has made me care much more about my physical appearance than I ever did before, not sure if that’s a good thing probably. My co-teachers still call me cheap for earning more money than them and not buying expensive brand named clothing. I just can't justify wasting money on it and I'm never gonna fit in anyway I'm quite obviously foreign so why waste my money on that crap.
Also the students used to call me dirty and make a big fuss if I had even the smallest hole in my socks. I’m used to just wearing socks till they die and then buying new ones. But since you walk around in indoor shoes/flip flop things your socks area always on display. Seems like a waste of perfectly good sock to me to buy new ones just because of a small hole….. perhaps I am cheap after all.
On March 19 2012 09:33 DLChucklesSP wrote: This is so sad, Korea must be sucha a lonely place, it's like a science-fiction dystopia, Brave New World comes to mind.
Apart from the superficiality and the racism, Korea is an awesome place and definitely a visit worth.
On March 19 2012 09:33 DLChucklesSP wrote: This is so sad, Korea must be sucha a lonely place, it's like a science-fiction dystopia, Brave New World comes to mind.
There are other elements in Korean life that more than make up for it. I just decided to focus on the most superficial element in its society.
I am sure there are, the historical perspective you gave at the beginning of the OP puts it in context, I think korea will eventually outgrow the obsession with appearance.
On a different note, looking at the head to body ratio example pictures, I had this realisation that Koreans got al these (perhaps misguided) appearance cues from japanese animes? They somehow thought that that is what people are supposed to look like (BTW I am equally puzzled by some aspects of japanese culture)?
On March 19 2012 08:55 mapthesoul wrote: What is the opinion on beards, or facial hair in general? I've seen it looking really good on some Koreans but it's so rare.
very nice read. I'll be moving to korea in a few month and i knew koreans were very into their looking, but i didn't knew it was as much as this.
I think my clothing style (or rather its non-existence) will rock their world. I expect lot of fun reaction when i'll wear some of the beautiful clothes i got from africa :D
On March 19 2012 09:33 DLChucklesSP wrote: This is so sad, Korea must be sucha a lonely place, it's like a science-fiction dystopia, Brave New World comes to mind.
There are other elements in Korean life that more than make up for it. I just decided to focus on the most superficial element in its society.
I am sure there are, the historical perspective you gave at the beginning of the OP puts it in context, I think korea will eventually outgrow the obsession with appearance.
On a different note, looking at the head to body ratio example pictures, I had this realisation that Koreans got al these (perhaps misguided) appearance cues from japanese animes? They somehow thought that that is what people are supposed to look like (BTW I am equally puzzled by some aspects of japanese culture)?
On March 19 2012 09:54 ZerONine09 wrote: Is there a look that's actually called the dandy or is the name something you made up? What defines something that is dandy?
On March 19 2012 09:54 ZerONine09 wrote: Is there a look that's actually called the dandy or is the name something you made up? What defines something that is dandy?
It's an actual name of a look and haircut, as in you can walk into a hair salon and say 'I want a dandy cut' and they will pull out a slew of pictures of celebrities from which you can choose from
Very interesting thread, I find nothing wrong with this, just another way of living I'd say, some people find themselves disgusted. But hey, there's no objective way to live life, and certainly there isn't any perfect outlook on society or other people, so shut up. And respect other peoples hatred/disdain towards other people :D
It's just an awful shame I wouldn't fit the high end of this aesthetic caste at all, I'm merely 5'11, with a rather inferior ratio, such a pity, but then again, if everyone was aesthetic, I'd say the proposed beauty would lose it's quality.
I am glad that I actually grew up in the US before moving back to Korea just because it allowed me to see different worlds and open my mind. If I grew up in Korea I actually do see myself just conforming to what everyone else was doing without really ever reflecting on my own actions. But I also am glad that I also didn't live all my life in the US because I would have been just as bad because I would been a Korean who knew pretty much no Korean or really anything else about the country besides from the little exposure I got from dramas and movies. I am rather glad that you made this blog as honest as you can on what is happening but also being impartial in its delivery. I know the people who read this will be quick to judge about everything but its something that you really have to become a part to really see. I don't think op wrote this for anyone to make anti-Korean claims but to better understand the situation more. I lived in Korea for 5 years and I still don't think I really understand it still just cause I just wasn't raised here my whole life. I don't know how it feels to be that kid who everyone picks on or that girl who no guy even looks at in Korea even though I've seen people who were or knew them personally. And I think I understand even less what it is to be that girl who actually turned her life around with plastic surgery.
Oh damn. I'm pretty short and I have that wolf cut you mentioned. No cute Korean babes for me I suppose. The prejudices seem pretty fierce, I feel sorry for those who actually live there but are too "ugly" to fit in.
On March 19 2012 09:54 ZerONine09 wrote: Is there a look that's actually called the dandy or is the name something you made up? What defines something that is dandy?
It's an actual name of a look and haircut, as in you can walk into a hair salon and say 'I want a dandy cut' and they will pull out a slew of pictures of celebrities from which you can choose from
Ah ok thanks for the clear up. Quite dandy indeed.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Really? I have this fantasy that Korean girls would flock to my milky white skin and blue eyes. Anti American?? How do I say "No no, I'm Canadian" in korean?
I should have said a KOREAN acting like a foreigner.. :p my bad lol yea Korean girls do have a fantasy for milky white skin and blue eyes. The anti-American bit is only for cultural and political reasons, not the actual individual's heritage, so a commoner wouldn't give a shit about whether you're American or Canadian while they would beat up their friend if he/she started speaking Korean with an English accent on purpose
That 's strange. That almost sounds like how Japanese woman are and how materialistic their culture is as well.
This type of superficiality runs through China and Japan as well.
Among some of the more amusing/intruging side-effects of having a culture like this are:
1. The ladies in service industries are usually more attractive than their western counterparts. Take airline stewardesses, for example. Airlines in Korea and China, and I think Japan, still discriminate based on attractiveness. So, the average flight attendant on Korea Air is probably younger, slimmer, and prettier than someone from British Airways or United Airlines.
2. I can't comment on Korea or Japan, but there are a lot of questionably effective surgical procedures in China. For example, my mother is a middle-aged woman with flabby arms. In particular, there are pockets of fat just below her armpits. During an extended trip to China, she underwent surgery to remove these fat pockets. The procedure was either botched, or was a scam to begin with. My mom spent several weeks healing the incisions made under her arms, but after recovery they looked and felt exactly the same as before.
3. As the OP has stated, there is only one type of acceptable body for women, and that is skinny. Curves are not attractive in Korea/China/Japan. If Kim Kardashian went over there, she wouldn't be called hot, she'd be called fat. Decently large breasts, while nice, must not come at the expense of slim figure. Add to this the fact that asian women usually have smaller breasts in comparison to westerners, and the conclusion is that the ideal body for a woman in Korea/China/Japan is something similar to what one would see from girls in high school, or even middle school. I wonder if this perception of beauty is one of the reasons why attraction to teenage girls seems more prevalent over there.
Looks over functionalities, same with products. This is the direction in which the world is moving. Back then people really didn't care about all those things, now it is like if you don't have this and that then you are pretty much fucked.
On March 19 2012 09:33 IntoTheheart wrote: Koreans, how much hate is there for mainland Chinese people or are we pretty much mellow?
So.. to be completely honest... we hate mainland Chinese people :x
Hm. I'm not too surprised in all honesty. Relations aren't exactly thawed since the invasion(s) I'm guessing. And there's other stuff we've done recently.
no we just think they're dirty and rural. japanese is what you're thinking of.
On March 19 2012 09:33 IntoTheheart wrote: Koreans, how much hate is there for mainland Chinese people or are we pretty much mellow?
So.. to be completely honest... we hate mainland Chinese people :x
Hm. I'm not too surprised in all honesty. Relations aren't exactly thawed since the invasion(s) I'm guessing. And there's other stuff we've done recently.
no we just think they're dirty and rural. japanese is what you're thinking of.
is hong kong pretty much in the same boat or is there a difference?
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
You're probably doing it wrong then - _______ -;;;;
And really, it's not an 'anti-American' sentiment...please don't exaggerate too much. It's more of a 'we think that our culture is far more superior than pretty much every other nation's' thing going on.
Just act like (or rather...not act, you sort of SHOULD be like this) you don't have to conform to Korean trends b/c you've been living elsewhere and you're more comfortable with your own style. It's not that hard.
On March 19 2012 09:33 IntoTheheart wrote: Koreans, how much hate is there for mainland Chinese people or are we pretty much mellow?
So.. to be completely honest... we hate mainland Chinese people :x
Hm. I'm not too surprised in all honesty. Relations aren't exactly thawed since the invasion(s) I'm guessing. And there's other stuff we've done recently.
no we just think they're dirty and rural. japanese is what you're thinking of.
Yep, even people from Taiwan and Hong Kong looked down on mainland Chinese people as being uncouth, uncultured, uneducated, backwards, dirty, and poor.
Which, for the most part of the 20th century, was true . Living under an oppressive communist regime meant the average mainland Chinese person was poor and uneducated compared to people in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and later SK.
Since the late 1980's when China's economy began it's boom, people in Taiwan and Hong Kong now have different views. Now, people from mainland China are uncouth, uncultured, uneducated, backwards, dirty, and rich.
Yep, even people from Taiwan and Hong Kong looked down on mainland Chinese people as being uncouth, uncultured, uneducated, backwards, dirty, and poor.
Which, for the most part of the 20th century, was true . Living under an oppressive communist regime meant the average mainland Chinese person was poor and uneducated compared to people in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and later SK.
Since the late 1980's when China's economy began it's boom, people in Taiwan and Hong Kong now have different views. Now, people from mainland China are uncouth, uncultured, uneducated, backwards, dirty, and rich.
Actually, I have a funny story about the international (mainland Chinese people at my school).
So, my dorm has only one study room, where all the Chinese people hang out. I say hang out as opposed to study because that's what they do there. I sometimes study there with a Korean friend of mine. I've been told that I look kind of Korean, and my last name also happens to be Chang-- my family is actually from Taiwan and Chang is Zhang according to the more popular romanization/ pinyin system.
So awkwardly, I understand most of what they say down there and do some unintentional eavesdropping while I'm studying. A good bit of the time, they're insulting the other people in the room for the way they dress or look or act, though they do seem a bit soft on me, though I am arguably less stylish than 90% of the school. It took quite awhile before one asked "hey, do you speak Chinese?" I kind of smirked and nodded. The "OH SH*T" expressions were priceless.
There must be a huge problem with anorexia among young people in Korea.
I have a question. What do guys in Korea look for aside from a pretty face. In the west it would be girls with nice boobs and asses is it the same in Korea because I imagine its not the same as being thin is valued so much.
Only living here for a month, I can already tell that this is all true. The clothes worn by males are pretty much ideal for America too, though. If you look in any magazine like a GQ, it's always telling males to dress like that, but obviously America doesn't, because most people are slobs. The only thing I still can't get here is the whole plastic surgery part, but maybe that's just my more suburban culture mindset.
Oh and the last picture "chilling like a bag of skittles" tops everything.
On March 19 2012 09:33 DLChucklesSP wrote: This is so sad, Korea must be sucha a lonely place, it's like a science-fiction dystopia, Brave New World comes to mind.
There are other elements in Korean life that more than make up for it. I just decided to focus on the most superficial element in its society.
Soo....I'm Taiwanese American and people pretty much lump us together as Chinese...I'm taking Korean in college and want to go to Korea and have a generally fun time. You sayin' people will hate me for being Chinese (I don't look that Chinese...my Korean teacher says I look North Korean. Sounds bad lol!).
And btw, I sort of got the stereotype and physical appearance factor even in Korean class. For examples, my teacher has a habit of embarrassing the guys in our class. For example, when we're practicing the word for 'handsome', she goes, "Who is more handsome, (Student A) or (Student B) in our class! Woww~~ it was embarassing (there's like only 3 guys in our class lololol). Or when we're doing a presentation on Korean culture, she'd look back at us when a Korean male model is displayed and be like "Oh, ___, whyy??" and give us the sad face. Kind of like, "why aren't you as handsome as him" lol.
On March 19 2012 11:22 ticklishmusic wrote: Actually, I have a funny story about the international (mainland Chinese people at my school).
So, my dorm has only one study room, where all the Chinese people hang out. I say hang out as opposed to study because that's what they do there. I sometimes study there with a Korean friend of mine. I've been told that I look kind of Korean, and my last name also happens to be Chang-- my family is actually from Taiwan and Chang is Zhang according to the more popular romanization/ pinyin system.
So awkwardly, I understand most of what they say down there and do some unintentional eavesdropping while I'm studying. A good bit of the time, they're insulting the other people in the room for the way they dress or look or act, though they do seem a bit soft on me, though I am arguably less stylish than 90% of the school. It took quite awhile before one asked "hey, do you speak Chinese?" I kind of smirked and nodded. The "OH SH*T" expressions were priceless.
Haha! Similar to me! I'm Taiwanese American too but my last name is Chung, which is super popular last name in Korea. I've got the Korean asymmetrical haircut going (without the wax, that's for girls) so I guess I'd fit in better than most foreigners.
Nicely put together, but really unpleasant to read if you know what I mean.
vv below post makes some sense to me as well. I imagine comparable backlash to what western celebrities receive. Only the most shallow human beings really embrace it.
Although most of the things OP said are true in some sense, I am going to have to say the actual reality of Korea is slightly less extreme and less one-dimensional than what may be conveyed by the post. For example, for the majority of people, such adherence to these ideals are at least a bit watered down. There is also backlash and criticism against such obsession with looks/materialism/superficiality. Just as an illustration, nowadays the entire "North Face fad" the OP mentioned is criticized by most young adults in Korea as being pointless and waste of money. Of course, things like plastic surgery are not met without any resistance either. Although generally the "dark-skinned" people might be met with less admiration/hoopla than fair-skinned caucasians by some people (but this is also true for many other cultures), downright discrimination against these people is rare and, in any case, would be strongly frowned upon by the Korean public.
One really important thing to note is that, a lot of these observations would fall apart when applied to the older generation. And we must remember -- despite the impression kpop and kdramas might give -- Korea consists of more than just teens and twenty-year olds. Of course, the older generation have their own set of quirks and problems.. but that's a different story altogether. For example, older Korean men (over age of 35) tend to definitely prefer voluminous body over girly, skinny frame.
That being said, I generally agree that materialism, conformity (lack of independent thinking), and superficiality are the most problematic things about the young Korean culture.
On March 19 2012 11:25 Eufouria wrote: There must be a huge problem with anorexia among young people in Korea.
I have a question. What do guys in Korea look for aside from a pretty face. In the west it would be girls with nice boobs and asses is it the same in Korea because I imagine its not the same as being thin is valued so much.
slender and fine. korean girls just don't have curves, just really good camera shots or tight clothes.
i remember what some high school girls would do, they would take a soju bottle and roll it hard on their calves so they would be tight.
Can anyone explain the fashion behind colouring your hair in East Asia? Like, I see that some Korean stars sometimes colour their hair, but every Asian I see here in Australia has black hair.
Probably monkey see monkey do. If you're the only Asian in Australia with colored hair you'd probably stand out a lot more and people would look at you funny. Instead of Korea, where someone with colored hair can find himself compared favorably to a Korean model or such.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I'm pretty sure having pale skin is an Asian thing and not only Korean though. I am Vietnamese with way darker skin than those Korean actors/singers and I've been told it's a bad thing. I have never been to Vietnam, but my brother and my parents often tell me it is quite rare to see the beautiful girls go outside during the day because there's a chance of tanning. You usually see them late in the afternoon and with long sleeves and umbrellas.
Apparently it has something to do with being a farmer/worker. From what I understand, having a pale white skin means you've been staying indoors all your life, been sheltered, didn't have to work outside = rich, fortunate. Having darker skin means you have been working in the mud and dirt outside in the field stuff and handling dirty animals under the scorching sun.
Really, you can obviously not agree with the sentiment (hey, it sucks for me, I have dark skin), but it's not HIS sentiment nor is it a Korean thing. I'm pretty sure everybody in Asia thinks like that. I think I saw a documentary about Indian girls paying awful amounts of money to get this product that bleaches your skin and get whiter than white skin. Apparently it has become a problem recently because it gives cancer.
TBH my perception of Chinese Mainland racism is we worship white people, dislike dark-skinned people, and save a special brand of hatred for Japan that we all but discard when we see the latest Sony TV. That said we are most racist towards each other, provincial and accent differences and whatnot.
Also I can totally see China turning into Korea in terms of appearances and fashion as people get richer. Already we are mostly there with people buying expensive (or fake) bags and watches and cars and stuff whether they can afford it or not. I suppose it is kind of an outcome of such obscene growth. Awesome thread!
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I'm pretty sure having pale skin is an Asian thing and not only Korean though. I am Vietnamese with way darker skin than those Korean actors/singers and I've been told it's a bad thing. I have never been to Vietnam, but my brother and my parents often tell me it is quite rare to see the beautiful girls go outside during the day because there's a chance of tanning. You usually see them late in the afternoon and with long sleeves and umbrellas.
Apparently it has something to do with being a farmer/worker. From what I understand, having a pale white skin means you've been staying indoors all your life, been sheltered, didn't have to work outside = rich, fortunate. Having darker skin means you have been working in the mud and dirt outside in the field stuff and handling dirty animals under the scorching sun.
Really, you can obviously not agree with the sentiment (hey, it sucks for me, I have dark skin), but it's not HIS sentiment nor is it a Korean thing. I'm pretty sure everybody in Asia thinks like that. I think I saw a documentary about Indian girls paying awful amounts of money to get this product that bleaches your skin and get whiter than white skin. Apparently it has become a problem recently because it gives cancer.
You are correct, this bolded part is why East Asians prefer pale, white skin to dark skin.
It's hilarious that in asian white skin is prefered, while in the west dark skin is prefered.
AND, the reason is the exact same! In the west, having a tan means you don't have to slave away in a cubicle all day, and have time to go to the beach and tan.
Interesting look into the superficial side of a culture. Thank you for your knowledge and insights. I like learning about all sorts of things like this from around the world whether I understand it, agree with it, or not.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I'm pretty sure having pale skin is an Asian thing and not only Korean though. I am Vietnamese with way darker skin than those Korean actors/singers and I've been told it's a bad thing. I have never been to Vietnam, but my brother and my parents often tell me it is quite rare to see the beautiful girls go outside during the day because there's a chance of tanning. You usually see them late in the afternoon and with long sleeves and umbrellas.
Apparently it has something to do with being a farmer/worker. From what I understand, having a pale white skin means you've been staying indoors all your life, been sheltered, didn't have to work outside = rich, fortunate. Having darker skin means you have been working in the mud and dirt outside in the field stuff and handling dirty animals under the scorching sun.
Really, you can obviously not agree with the sentiment (hey, it sucks for me, I have dark skin), but it's not HIS sentiment nor is it a Korean thing. I'm pretty sure everybody in Asia thinks like that. I think I saw a documentary about Indian girls paying awful amounts of money to get this product that bleaches your skin and get whiter than white skin. Apparently it has become a problem recently because it gives cancer.
That was how it was in England up until less than 100 years ago. Nowadays people go as far as risking cancer through sunbeds in order to try and tan, I guess because Latin people are probably generally considered the most beautiful group of people among westerners.
On March 19 2012 11:49 Mobius_1 wrote: TBH my perception of Chinese Mainland racism is we worship white people, dislike dark-skinned people, and save a special brand of hatred for Japan that we all but discard when we see the latest Sony TV. That said we are most racist towards each other, provincial and accent differences and whatnot.
Also I can totally see China turning into Korea in terms of appearances and fashion as people get richer. Already we are mostly there with people buying expensive (or fake) bags and watches and cars and stuff whether they can afford it or not. I suppose it is kind of an outcome of such obscene growth. Awesome thread!
There are definitely similarities. But as a Asian American who visited both China and Korea (having lived in the latter for more than a decade), I have to say materialism in Korea is pretty bad but it's on a completely different level in China.
That being said, the obsession with looks and superficial things are, at the moment at least, much worse in Korea. Of course, if you go to a place like Shanghai, even this might might not hold true.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I'm pretty sure having pale skin is an Asian thing and not only Korean though. I am Vietnamese with way darker skin than those Korean actors/singers and I've been told it's a bad thing. I have never been to Vietnam, but my brother and my parents often tell me it is quite rare to see the beautiful girls go outside during the day because there's a chance of tanning. You usually see them late in the afternoon and with long sleeves and umbrellas.
Apparently it has something to do with being a farmer/worker. From what I understand, having a pale white skin means you've been staying indoors all your life, been sheltered, didn't have to work outside = rich, fortunate. Having darker skin means you have been working in the mud and dirt outside in the field stuff and handling dirty animals under the scorching sun.
Really, you can obviously not agree with the sentiment (hey, it sucks for me, I have dark skin), but it's not HIS sentiment nor is it a Korean thing. I'm pretty sure everybody in Asia thinks like that. I think I saw a documentary about Indian girls paying awful amounts of money to get this product that bleaches your skin and get whiter than white skin. Apparently it has become a problem recently because it gives cancer.
That was how it was in England up until less than 100 years ago. Nowadays people go as far as risking cancer through sunbeds in order to try and tan, I guess because Latin people are probably generally considered the most beautiful group of people among westerners.
No, I think it's more of a California-beach-surfer crowd thing.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I call gay/stupid!! Beeing a halfkorean myself I feel like the koreans care too much about outward apprearance.. And having talked a lot to my cousins and having some experience myself it appears that if you don't care, it doesn't matter..
I can't believe there's people in here praising this type of extreme superficial culture of plastic surgery and calling their own cultures slobs.... There seems to be alot of Korean worship on TL.
imo people can wear what they want as long as its clean and fits them. And i don't look down on people for wearing cheaper brands as long as its clean and fits them and looks good on them who cares if they got it cheaper.
On March 19 2012 12:31 zimz wrote: I can't believe there's people in here praising this type of extreme superficial culture of plastic surgery and calling their own cultures slobs...
On March 19 2012 11:38 GTR wrote: Can anyone explain the fashion behind colouring your hair in East Asia? Like, I see that some Korean stars sometimes colour their hair, but every Asian I see here in Australia has black hair.
Well that's certainly not true.
I see asians with dyed hair all the time, and thats our westernized asians and foreigners too.
Just stand in MC clock for like 10 minutes and you'll see heaps =P
On March 19 2012 12:31 zimz wrote: I can't believe there's people in here praising this type of extreme superficial culture of plastic surgery and calling their own cultures slobs.... There seems to be alot of Korean worship on TL.
imo people can wear what they want as long as its clean and fits them. And i don't look down on people for wearing cheaper brands as long as its clean and fits them and looks good on them who cares if they got it cheaper.
You've basically contradicted yourself. People call them own country slobs because they don't do this~!
On March 19 2012 12:31 zimz wrote: I can't believe there's people in here praising this type of extreme superficial culture of plastic surgery and calling their own cultures slobs.... There seems to be alot of Korean worship on TL.
imo people can wear what they want as long as its clean and fits them. And i don't look down on people for wearing cheaper brands as long as its clean and fits them and looks good on them who cares if they got it cheaper.
You've basically contradicted yourself. People call them own country slobs because they don't do this~!
its clean and fits them could be purposely ripped jeans on chicks that our clean and fit them, and overall we still value uniqueness in America.
On March 19 2012 05:42 rotinegg wrote:The general rule of thumb is having fair (somewhat white), even-toned skin with minimal oil is the best skin. Koreans don't like to tan as they discriminate against darker skinned folks, such as southeast Asians, Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for looking "poor" (=빈티난다).
This is fucking disgusting, the fact you mention this so easily, is fucking disgusting, and i hope you realise that.
I'm pretty sure having pale skin is an Asian thing and not only Korean though. I am Vietnamese with way darker skin than those Korean actors/singers and I've been told it's a bad thing. I have never been to Vietnam, but my brother and my parents often tell me it is quite rare to see the beautiful girls go outside during the day because there's a chance of tanning. You usually see them late in the afternoon and with long sleeves and umbrellas.
Apparently it has something to do with being a farmer/worker. From what I understand, having a pale white skin means you've been staying indoors all your life, been sheltered, didn't have to work outside = rich, fortunate. Having darker skin means you have been working in the mud and dirt outside in the field stuff and handling dirty animals under the scorching sun.
Really, you can obviously not agree with the sentiment (hey, it sucks for me, I have dark skin), but it's not HIS sentiment nor is it a Korean thing. I'm pretty sure everybody in Asia thinks like that. I think I saw a documentary about Indian girls paying awful amounts of money to get this product that bleaches your skin and get whiter than white skin. Apparently it has become a problem recently because it gives cancer.
That was how it was in England up until less than 100 years ago. Nowadays people go as far as risking cancer through sunbeds in order to try and tan, I guess because Latin people are probably generally considered the most beautiful group of people among westerners.
Not only england. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette rich people used to look like that back then. They used to put make-up on to look whiter. I remember my teacher telling us during some history class that there were some queen(can't remember her name) that used to put this kind of make-up, but she was allergic to it, so she got really bad rashes in her face. That led to her using more and more make-up, and it was said that after some years her face without make-up was totally fucked up.
On March 19 2012 11:49 Mobius_1 wrote: TBH my perception of Chinese Mainland racism is we worship white people, dislike dark-skinned people, and save a special brand of hatred for Japan that we all but discard when we see the latest Sony TV. That said we are most racist towards each other, provincial and accent differences and whatnot.
Also I can totally see China turning into Korea in terms of appearances and fashion as people get richer. Already we are mostly there with people buying expensive (or fake) bags and watches and cars and stuff whether they can afford it or not. I suppose it is kind of an outcome of such obscene growth. Awesome thread!
There are definitely similarities. But as a Asian American who visited both China and Korea (having lived in the latter for more than a decade), I have to say materialism in Korea is pretty bad but it's on a completely different level in China.
That being said, the obsession with looks and superficial things are, at the moment at least, much worse in Korea. Of course, if you go to a place like Shanghai, even this might might not hold true.
Yeah it's really developed into a money (and power)>>>all culture in China. No girl is willing to marry unless the guy has a house (plus car anywhere not poor) and so on. Quote: "I'd rather cry in the back of a BMW than smile/be happy on the back of a bicycle." I think one day materialism in China will develop into the obsession with looks in Korea, and then suddenly those plastic surgeons in KR will be able to afford a couple more Lamborghinis thanks to ugly Chinese teenagers throwing them their parents' money.
On March 19 2012 13:31 OneOther wrote: some of those korean guys are ridiculously good looking though, wow
Probably because they are arguably some of the best looking male celebrities in Korea lol 강동원 조인성 원빈 정용화 김현중 송승헌 that's like a star studded all-star lineup right there
In my visits to Korea and including this recent one, the korean mindset on stuff like this really disturbed me. The extent people go to look like kpop idols and discriminating against people who don't share the same mindset is quite strange for me. However, if the damn perm didn't cost so much money in england i'd have it done regularly. Korean hair can be an absolute bitch to style.
On March 19 2012 13:31 OneOther wrote: some of those korean guys are ridiculously good looking though, wow
Probably because they are arguably some of the best looking male celebrities in Korea lol 강동원 조인성 원빈 정용화 김현중 이준혁 that's like a star studded all-star lineup right there
I'm surprised lee byung hyun wasn't in the op. I'm a guy but damn that guy is like the best looking korean along with rain.
On March 19 2012 13:31 OneOther wrote: some of those korean guys are ridiculously good looking though, wow
Probably because they are arguably some of the best looking male celebrities in Korea lol 강동원 조인성 원빈 정용화 김현중 이준혁 that's like a star studded all-star lineup right there
I'm surprised lee byung hyun wasn't in the op. I'm a guy but damn that guy is like the best looking korean along with rain.
There were quite a few good looking celebs I left out, the ones I included just happened to have the hairstyle I was searching for :p
Regarding koreans and jaws... is jaw asymmetry common in korean people? It seems like quite alot of people I've seen with it were asian/korean including myself. Plus I'm planning to have an op to fix that in the summer and it seems like it's an extremely common surgery in korea.
On March 19 2012 13:47 OneOther wrote: lee byung hyun from gi joe right? haha he's got the tough guy look going on what's the main actor's name from City Hunter? he is also sexy
Having spent some time in Korea and China, I thing rotinegg has posted a very very good summary of not only Koreans, but the way Korea, Japan and China work to an extent. Compared to Australian's, the Asian countries prefer to dress well - none of this leggings only shit that you see in Australia. I'd also like to add a point about the North Face jacket - he wasn't exaggerating - this ugly piece of shit jacket is EVERYWHERE. I was certain it was some cheaper product that was easily accessible to combat the cold (and I may yet be right, maybe many of these are imitations) but the original product retails incredibly high for such a plain, boring looking jacket.
Further, on the subject of hair - many girls like straight down bangs that stop a small amount above the eyes. Personally I hate this hairstyle, but luckily there is also an abundance of longer hair, whether straight or slightly curled. Also HEAPS of people have their hair dyed, whether man or woman. An interesting point is the perming and preparing hair for mornings: basically you will have to wash your hair in the morning and night, or it becomes terrible, and not workable in the morning. If you don't perm, you have to use an iron to make curls if you want, and then doing all this other shit takes a fair amount of hairdryer work. Then you have to add the gatsby, hairspray...it adds up in the mornings Also don't forget the overdoing of sunscreen - this will look SO awkward to you the first time you see it - basically white face, but then brown neck...yeah i wasn't too keen on this.
Also I guess one thing OP didn't mention is the V-line of your face, which is what Korean's love: a sharp jawline with the front of your face being in a V shape, as opposed to a more squarish, manly style in Western countries. I guess if you could find those exercises that you can do to reduce cheeks/neck size then that would be pretty cool, i wouldn't mind doing some of those But yeah, a lean face is good.
I guess in the end, when you walk around the popular shopping areas like dongdaemun or shanghai, you might see a lot of pretty girls, but the main thing is, don't feel bad about yourself because chances are if you put on makeup, dress nicely, do your hair for 45 mins then you'll look similar. Also, never think your eyes are that small - because once you see them without eye shadow or lenses then most likely they'll look the same.
edit: a note about being 1.76 and racism: 1.76 you will be fairly tall tbh, most people ARE pretty short, and its not like everyone is good looking so don't worry at all =]. Most of the high school students don't look good (yes I do have a look around on the subway), and id say there are more kind of dark skinned men than the ones u see on TV (white as hell).
And lol racism, in cantonese (hong kong/guangzhou areas of china), indians are "a -cha" which basically means bad, inferior, crap. Koreans seem quite friendly to foreigners though!
On March 19 2012 13:47 OneOther wrote: lee byung hyun from gi joe right? haha he's got the tough guy look going on what's the main actor's name from City Hunter? he is also sexy
On March 19 2012 05:51 hai2u wrote: makes me glad im not living in Korea.
Same here. I would probably just spend my whole time raging at all the people who insult/laugh/stare at me, spending the rest of my time with a massive amount of paranoia and anxiety. I would probably have trouble even setting foot outside my home.
On March 19 2012 13:47 OneOther wrote: lee byung hyun from gi joe right? haha he's got the tough guy look going on what's the main actor's name from City Hunter? he is also sexy
lee min ho
enjoyed the write-up, seems pretty accurate. I'm not sure why many westerners are so against minor plastic surgery, male makeup and conformity. It's just a different set of values (try telling me appearance doesn't matter to foreigners - it's just they're trying to send different messages - 'i didn't put any effort into this', 'i conform to a subculture, not the mainstream', 'i'm not a gay who wears makeup and dresses well'. Everyone's superficial imo, koreans are just less hung up on it.
Great OP that actually knows what he is talking about. Well done to give an actual account rather than some Korean American coming here and just freaking out and painting everything in judgmental tones.
I'll write more later, too busy cause of work, but it points to something interesting to Korean culture and btw, only younger kids really care about this, by the time you get into your 30's in Korea, you have much more important things to worry about if you are a man. Or if you are a woman and have a couple of children.
rotinegg I would love more articles on korean culture. Actually I would love articles this well written and in depth about any culture but I assume you don't know others as well as the korean one. This is so good, thank you very much.
Great read, I had no idea how complex fashion and looks are over there. Must really be hard growing up in that sort of culture. Thanks again for the insiders look on Korean culture.
On March 19 2012 09:38 Greg_J wrote: What the hell does it mean when Koreans say 'you have a small face’? My co-teachers said that all the time and I understand it’s meant to be a complement but it doesn't make any sense to me.
"I’m not really sure where the small face phenomenon originated. However, it is widely believed among Koreans that small faces photograph/video well, and that a smaller face will make you look skinner in photos as well."
On March 19 2012 06:14 Recognizable wrote: haha, teh fuck. This is so... Extreme. I feel like such an ugly motherfucker right now. Happy I don't live in Korea lol. How many hours each day do you think people in Korea are busy trying to improve their appearance?
Well, I guess this is where every economically advanced, conformist, mostly urban, crowd-minded society (no offense) comes to when it doesn't have other major problems.
I have to ask though, noting this quote
On March 19 2012 08:45 Quesadilla wrote: People are so worried about how many "notches" they can achieve while in Korea, but if you know the truth about girls there, 100 notches isn't even worth 0.5 of one that is truly S-class.
Can korean guys please describe S-class korean girl.
edit: Also, could you (or any other kpop fan) please show same snsd picture but unphotoshoped?
Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
On March 19 2012 14:58 undyinglight wrote: I have always loved Korean style. Does the Dandy haircut have any alternative names it goes by in the United States?
tell the hairdresser you want to look like justin bieber
On March 19 2012 14:21 MightyAtom wrote: Great OP that actually knows what he is talking about. Well done to give an actual account rather than some Korean American coming here and just freaking out and painting everything in judgmental tones.
I'll write more later, too busy cause of work, but it points to something interesting to Korean culture and btw, only younger kids really care about this, by the time you get into your 30's in Korea, you have much more important things to worry about if you are a man. Or if you are a woman and have a couple of children.
Get ready for the truth-train, folks. The next saga of Korean standards is interesting as well, which Atom foreshadows.
Lol, as long as we're delving deep into oriental xenophobia, how about this little nugget:
In China, the most common way to refer to an African/black person is the phrase "hei gui." The phrase translates to "black ghost" or "black monster." Not sure if Korea and Japan have any equivalent phrases.
Also, one of the ways used to refer to people from Japan is "ri ben gui zi," which translates to "Japanese ghost" or "Japanese monster." It is not TOO uncommon to hear this reference if Japan is a subject of discussion, particularly if the people discussing Japan are of the older generation.
On March 19 2012 09:38 Greg_J wrote: Also the students used to call me dirty and make a big fuss if I had even the smallest hole in my socks. I’m used to just wearing socks till they die and then buying new ones. But since you walk around in indoor shoes/flip flop things your socks area always on display. Seems like a waste of perfectly good sock to me to buy new ones just because of a small hole….. perhaps I am cheap after all.
Oh dear. I don't think I'd fit in very well clothing wise. The thrifty Mennonite in me is so hard to suppress. Very interesting blog.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
That's because Koreans don't value large breasts. Plastic surgery is much more common over there than here.
I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
On March 19 2012 15:56 duk3 wrote: I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
That's because Koreans don't value large breasts. Plastic surgery is much more common over there than here.
That's just not true. Although slim figures are sought for, Korean people also love big bosoms. This is one of the reasons why I think OP is slightly off the mark (at least in depicting Korea as a whole); especially as men get older, curves are preferred over slim, girly figures. Look to the G-na phenomena if you are skeptical.
On March 19 2012 15:56 duk3 wrote: I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
i'm not the op but i know anyway: its the same as everywhere, its quite loose, big, and waterproof.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
I fear we have a misunderstanding. No no no, I'm not basing it off a blog post. I've been following SC since about late 2006, and by extension Korean society/culture due to the fact I've had huge interest in it since. During high school, I've known a couple Koreans in and outside of hs, who while not in the least following these trends in Korea, were quite knowledgeable on them. Right now, I attend a university that is largely Asian. I've come across quite a few Koreans and Korea-philes who have told me all about this stuff, and some were strict on the point that this was the norm there.
I was in fierce denial of that. In my mind, it had to be just celebrities and the typical dumbasses, who comprise a minority who go to such extremes in a country, like for example the US. I would not have it any other way! However, in the back of my head, I knew it was true, I just didn't want to admit it to myself. Well, now hearing it from a Korean living in Korea that these things are the norm and anyone who is half-conscientious socially does this stuff at least to some extremity, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm sorry man. Maybe I'm more disappointed than I should be, but I'm a bit in disbelief in any case.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
That's because Koreans don't value large breasts. Plastic surgery is much more common over there than here.
That's just not true. Although slim figures are sought for, Korean people also love big bosoms. This is one of the reasons why I think OP is slightly off the mark (at least in depicting Korea as a whole); especially as men get older, curves are preferred over slim, girly figures. Look to the G-na phenomena if you are skeptical.
This is interesting. Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it just me, or do Korean and many East Asian women overall seem to be less curvy and have smaller breasts than other women? :s Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is something I've kinda observed.
Lol, that old Stork picture really sticks out. He was a completely different person looks-wise back in 2005-2006. I don't remember when he had all that stuff done. I guess it is a little extreme over there in some cases with all the plastic surgery, I think it is the plastic surgery capital of the world or something like that isn't it?
The more I think about it, the more I think that South Korea is an extremely stressful place to live. With so much emphasis on what school you go to and how you look determining more than anything else with how you are percieved in that society. I was even reading awhile ago about how disabled people in S.K are like outcasts and I found it pretty sad. Granted, all this stuff happens in other cultures but it seems to be taken to an extreme in S.K.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
I fear we have a misunderstanding. No no no, I'm not basing it off a blog post. I've been following SC since about late 2006, and by extension Korean society/culture due to the fact I've had huge interest in it since. During high school, I've known a couple Koreans in and outside of hs, who while not in the least following these trends in Korea, were quite knowledgeable on them. Right now, I attend a university that is largely Asian. I've come across quite a few Koreans and Korea-philes who have told me all about this stuff, and some were strict on the point that this was the norm there.
I was in fierce denial of that. In my mind, it had to be just celebrities and the typical dumbasses, who comprise a minority in a country that go to such extremes, like for example the US. I would not have it any other way! Well, now hearing it from a Korean living in Korea that these things are the norm and anyone who is half-conscientious socially does this stuff at least to some extremity, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm sorry man. Maybe I'm more disappointed than I should be, but I'm a bit in disbelief in any case.
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
That's because Koreans don't value large breasts. Plastic surgery is much more common over there than here.
That's just not true. Although slim figures are sought for, Korean people also love big bosoms. This is one of the reasons why I think OP is slightly off the mark (at least in depicting Korea as a whole); especially as men get older, curves are preferred over slim, girly figures. Look to the G-na phenomena if you are skeptical.
This is interesting. Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it just me, or do Korean and many East Asian women overall seem to be less curvy and have smaller breasts than other women? :s Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is something I've kinda observed.
The body proportions are definitely different. I think the average cup size for Korean women is like less than A compared to B-C for western women.
On March 19 2012 16:48 Enki wrote: Lol, that old Stork picture really sticks out. He was a completely different person looks-wise back in 2005-2006. I don't remember when he had all that stuff done. I guess it is a little extreme over there in some cases with all the plastic surgury, I think it is the plastic surgery capital of the world or something like that isn't it?
The more I think about it, the more I think that South Korea is an extremely stressful place to live. With so much emphasis on what school you go to and how you look determining more than anything else with how you are percieved in that society. I was even reading awhile ago about how disabled people in S.K are like outcasts and I found it pretty sad. Granted, all this stuff happens in other cultures but it seems to be taken to an extreme in S.K.
I would argue that Korea is probably the most stressful country to live in -- especially if you are not loaded with cash. Kinda explains the suicide rate...
Just in terms of historical perspective, if you're curious how a culture may have "ended up" like this (a lot of this applies to China and Japan as well), here's my take on it (I'm a Korean myself and have lived both in and outside Korea):
2,500 years of confucianism meeting rapid westernization.
Basically, a lot of confucianism focuses on how to become the "proper" person. That is, confucianism prescribed the "right" way to do things, the "right" way to live your life. Whilst it originally covered "more noble" things like character and virtue, it gradually permeated into the minutiae of everyday life to include "trivial" things like appearance.
Now suppose you visited Korea in say 1870, before modernization. You would've seen practically all men dressed in the same cookie-cutter white traditional outfit, all wearing the same black hat (갓), all having their hair nicely tied on top of their head. (In fact, in many ways such a picture mirrors that of the contemporaneous Victorian gentlemen all wearing their dark suits with their top-hats). There were similar "standards" of dress for women as well. As for things like facial appearance, well there was no plastic surgery back then but still there were ideals of what a "good" face ought to look like.
Then over the next 130 years, Korea literally is thrown into chaos, after millenia of (relative) peace, cultural stability and isolation. There is a sudden influx of Western ideas, knowledge and technology which basically turns the world upside down. Korea then gets colonized by Japan (or r***ed as the elderly would put it). The country is then split in half and a war tears apart the whole peninsula, reducing everything to rubble and plunging virtually the entire population into complete, utter poverty. Then somehow, from that poverty happens the Miracle of the Han and (South) Korea ends up in the place it is today.
Now whilst all that's happening, the "old" confucian ideals are preserved. People still expect there to be the "right" way of doing things - i.e. the "right" way of dressing and presenting oneself, etc. Yet when the world seems to be in a constant state of flux and confusion, you can imagine how insecure one may feel. So they look to eachother for guidance, and Koreans synthesise for themselves their own sense of aesthetics - a patchwork of traditional ideals mixed with modern technology and tidbits of "imported" concepts.
Then with the booming of the Korean economy through the 1970s-(agruably up till today, even with all the "setbacks"), Koreans as a whole I guess really, really wanted to make a point of distancing themselves from the "poor" and tumultous past. The Korean obssession with height is attributable to this (mums love to brag on about their son's height - this originally would've meant that the family had enough wealth to properly nourish their child. MANY Korean elderly are actually well-below their "genetic" height due to being malnourished as children). Similarly with designer labels and plastic surgery - conspicuous spending telling everyone "I'm not so poor anymore! yay!" Well, that's probably how it all started anyway, but then with everyone getting rich to some extent, a lot of these things lost their original meaning.
So yeah. Koreans for centuries have been familiar with the idea of the "correct way to look and dress" (in the same vein as knowing "the correct way to greet your elders", etc). Then along came westernization and modernization, a whole lot of stuff happened (as above), and a brand new "correct way to look" has been conjured up (which indeed is constantly changing, but you can guarantee that in Korea there will always be a "correct way to look")
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
I fear we have a misunderstanding. No no no, I'm not basing it off a blog post. I've been following SC since about late 2006, and by extension Korean society/culture due to the fact I've had huge interest in it since. During high school, I've known a couple Koreans in and outside of hs, who while not in the least following these trends in Korea, were quite knowledgeable on them. Right now, I attend a university that is largely Asian. I've come across quite a few Koreans and Korea-philes who have told me all about this stuff, and some were strict on the point that this was the norm there.
I was in fierce denial of that. In my mind, it had to be just celebrities and the typical dumbasses, who comprise a minority in a country that go to such extremes, like for example the US. I would not have it any other way! Well, now hearing it from a Korean living in Korea that these things are the norm and anyone who is half-conscientious socially does this stuff at least to some extremity, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm sorry man. Maybe I'm more disappointed than I should be, but I'm a bit in disbelief in any case.
On March 19 2012 16:03 phosphorylation wrote:
On March 19 2012 15:53 madcow305 wrote:
On March 19 2012 15:47 OneOther wrote:
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Woah, settle down man. Every country has a level of superficiality in its entertainment culture and appearances, and Korea is no different. Yea, it might be little bit more extreme than others but basing your entire perception of the country and its culture on this blog post (albeit an accurate description of the sentiment) is not a good idea. Think about how many more women in America get breast enlargements. A lot more than Korea, I can gurantee you. It's just different, man. No reason to compare how "messed-up" a country is or be disappointed about anything.
That's because Koreans don't value large breasts. Plastic surgery is much more common over there than here.
That's just not true. Although slim figures are sought for, Korean people also love big bosoms. This is one of the reasons why I think OP is slightly off the mark (at least in depicting Korea as a whole); especially as men get older, curves are preferred over slim, girly figures. Look to the G-na phenomena if you are skeptical.
This is interesting. Please don't take this the wrong way, but is it just me, or do Korean and many East Asian women overall seem to be less curvy and have smaller breasts than other women? :s Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is something I've kinda observed.
The body proportions are definitely different. I think the average cup size for Korean women is like less than A compared to B-C for western women.
Oh, okay. I was starting to think I was hallucinating lol. I mean, you can only really carefully examine the bosom of a girl when she's nude (not trying to sound lewd here, just speaking in a scientific manner), but I just noticed "Hmm, these seem smaller than non-asian girls' ", and on rare occasion I thought my senses of sight and touch were fooling me haha. Well, glad to know I'm not the only one who's noticed this sort of thing.
There's a lot of talk on here about "xenophobic Korea," but I'd just like to point out that if you're ever in the mood to be disgusted with your fellow native English speakers, you can always go here: http://www.notracistbut.com/
It hasn't been updated for a while, but it is a poignant reminder.
I am currently in Japan, and I thought things were "bad" here in terms of individuality, but I had no idea...
On March 19 2012 16:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I was in fierce denial of that. In my mind, it had to be just celebrities and the typical dumbasses, who comprise a minority who go to such extremes in a country, like for example the US. I would not have it any other way! However, in the back of my head, I knew it was true, I just didn't want to admit it to myself. Well, now hearing it from a Korean living in Korea that these things are the norm and anyone who is half-conscientious socially does this stuff at least to some extremity, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm sorry man. Maybe I'm more disappointed than I should be, but I'm a bit in disbelief in any case.
Great read rotinegg! I can't wait to live in Korea, I love Korean culture...
People should keep in mind that while this presents the general outlook, it's not a black and white issue. As always, there's a clear gradient. Most people will be trying to look/dress a certain way. But there's a lot of ground in between 100% effort (surgery, makeup, clothes, accessories, etc) and 1% effort (you manage to put on clothing in the morning). From my experience, most people you interact with on a daily basis (completely based on what you do day to day) are like 50%-60% effort. Stuff like this
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Is a heck of a lot more messed up than any culture I've seen. So incredibly clear-cut blanket assumptions based on the little bit of information he just learned. It would be like if I assumed this was the way all Americans were: makes ridiculous conclusions over very little information, insufferably arrogant and patriotic, insults anything foreign or strange, and has no concept of points of view or opinions. EDIT: I hit post instead of preview -.-;;
I just wanted to point out that a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion. Almost every culture in the world is superficial and I agree that South Korea is taking this farther than most, it's not that far of an outlier.
But according to this South Korea had 74 plastic surgeries per 10000 people, while Brazil had 55 per 10k, and here in the U.S. we had 42 per 10k. I just think that we should just try not jump to conclusions and call their culture "Disgusting".
all of these words typed out in korean, I can't understand it. Why not put a translation in quotes or at the very least tell us how to say it phonetically. thanks for teaching me all these words that I can't possibly understand or even say, why even share the words if no one can understand?
On March 19 2012 17:08 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Great read rotinegg! I can't wait to live in Korea, I love Korean culture...
People should keep in mind that while this presents the general outlook, it's not a black and white issue. As always, there's a clear gradient. Most people will be trying to look/dress a certain way. But there's a lot of ground in between 100% effort (surgery, makeup, clothes, accessories, etc) and 1% effort (you manage to put on clothing in the morning). From my experience, most people you interact with on a daily basis (completely based on what you do day to day) are like 50%-60% effort. Stuff like this
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Is a heck of a lot more messed up than any culture I've seen. So incredibly clear-cut blanket assumptions based on the little bit of information he just learned. It would be like if I assumed this was the way all Americans were: makes ridiculous conclusions over very little information, insufferably arrogant and patriotic, insults anything foreign or strange, and has no concept of points of view or opinions. EDIT: I hit post instead of preview -.-;;
You should read people's posts, in particular my reply to OneOther's reply to me, before making comments under a single assumption that is just wrong, that this is the first time I've heard about it (not to mention other absurd assumptions about me that you made in this post). It isn't something I'm new to based on this "little bit of information I just learned". No, I didn't just learn it. This is stuff I've learned about and followed and have been told over and over for the past 5 years. With that assumption out of the way, your reply to me just doesn't have a basis to it, along with the other assumptions in the post, that by virtue of stemming from it, are just as unfounded and ridiculous, unfortunately. The insulting assumptions regarding me in the part following the colon were rather humorous, I'll give you that. Come on man, chill out a bit. No need to slander people.
I have a question.. what do Koreans think/feel about Latin people??, like myself, im Colombian.. i was wondering couse i was planning to go to korea but after reading this i got this question on my head if i was going to be discriminated or something like that.
On March 19 2012 17:08 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Great read rotinegg! I can't wait to live in Korea, I love Korean culture...
People should keep in mind that while this presents the general outlook, it's not a black and white issue. As always, there's a clear gradient. Most people will be trying to look/dress a certain way. But there's a lot of ground in between 100% effort (surgery, makeup, clothes, accessories, etc) and 1% effort (you manage to put on clothing in the morning). From my experience, most people you interact with on a daily basis (completely based on what you do day to day) are like 50%-60% effort. Stuff like this
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Is a heck of a lot more messed up than any culture I've seen. So incredibly clear-cut blanket assumptions based on the little bit of information he just learned. It would be like if I assumed this was the way all Americans were: makes ridiculous conclusions over very little information, insufferably arrogant and patriotic, insults anything foreign or strange, and has no concept of points of view or opinions. EDIT: I hit post instead of preview -.-;;
You should read people's posts, in particular my reply to OneOther's reply to me, before making comments under a single assumption that is just wrong, that this is the first time I've heard about it (not to mention other absurd assumptions about me that you made in this post). It isn't something I'm new to based on this "little bit of information I just learned". No, I didn't just learn it. This is stuff I've learned about and followed and have been told over and over for the past 5 years. With that assumption out of the way, your reply to me just doesn't have a basis to it, along with the other assumptions in the post that stem from it, but are nonetheless just as unfounded.
Yea I was editing my post to take your new posts into consideration but since you already replied, I guess I'll just make a new post. (You guys all post so fast -.-;; ) I see it's not just off this blog post. But my point still stands, you haven't even been to Korea (I assume?) and yet write off the culture as being
ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity.
The way I see it, I much prefer living in Korea. A society that puts emphasis on being the best you can be, including physical appearance. I'm so tired of walking outside seeing kids just bumming around in outfits they clearly took 0 effort in putting together. First impressions are SO important in life and yet there's such a big stigma for being shallow. I'm not being shallow; everyone agrees that you need to dress/look really well for a job interview. So why not for your friends or soon-to-be friends? Are they not worth it for you? Your future spouse, your parents, your kids? People seem to take pride in dressing down, especially in college. Kids in my lectures who show up with a nice blazer or cardigan are always made fun of. "lol I bet he's gay, what a fag". Even if you don't agree with their sense of fashion, the only reason they went through the trouble of wearing/buying that outfit was to try and show what they think is their best side. I feel like that's something very respectable and yet apparently it's so uncool. I'm not saying we should all walk around in suits everyday, I know I have a lot of days where I look pretty awful. Korea is just the other end of the spectrum. I for one would really be motivated in Korea to try and look as presentable as I could on a day-to-day basis. You and I obviously have differing ideas on what we want but just because it's different, to write it off as "shitty" is ridiculous. "wow that's different" or "I never imagined a culture like that before" or "I could never see myself fitting in with that culture" are all very reasonable reactions. Insulting something different and ending your post with some ridiculous patriotic statement is not. Seriously, the fuck is this?
The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
EDIT: My point is that I prefer to live in Korea, you prefer to live in the US. Hell, the US is so big, I loved the East coast but can't stand west coast and midwest is meh. Maybe I'd love to live wherever you live. But there is really no reason here for calling any country shitty
On March 19 2012 17:23 Vario wrote: I have a question.. what do Koreans think/feel about Latin people??, like myself, im Colombian.. i was wondering couse i was planning to go to korea but after reading this i got this question on my head if i was going to be discriminated or something like that.
I noted this earlier in the thread, but you don't have much to worry about.
Foreigners are usually met with great warmth, especially if the foreigner makes a visible effort to learn korean and korean culture. Of course, you might get double-takes and extra curiosity/attention, but that's probably just because people don't see Colombians everyday!
That being said, it would be naive to deny that a Caucasian with blue eyes might be met with more admiration/wonderment by some people (especially females), but I definitely would not expect any flagrant negative discrimination against dark-skinned foreigners -- and even if you do, that discriminatory person will be condemned by the general public if someone takes a video of it and it goes viral.
Just make an effort to visibly appreciate and learn korean culture and you should be fine!
On March 19 2012 17:08 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Great read rotinegg! I can't wait to live in Korea, I love Korean culture...
People should keep in mind that while this presents the general outlook, it's not a black and white issue. As always, there's a clear gradient. Most people will be trying to look/dress a certain way. But there's a lot of ground in between 100% effort (surgery, makeup, clothes, accessories, etc) and 1% effort (you manage to put on clothing in the morning). From my experience, most people you interact with on a daily basis (completely based on what you do day to day) are like 50%-60% effort. Stuff like this
On March 19 2012 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Dude, are you trying to make me think shitty of Korea or something? I hate to admit it, but you did a good job :/. Btw, this is a guy who up to this point loved Korea.
Biggest disappointment though was that everyone in SNSD got plastic surgery. Seriously, they look pretty much indiscernible from how they used to. Surgery makes some real miracles, I'll say that.
And people like bashing we Americans for being messed up? IMHO, the Koreans really, really got us beat in that regard. These things described in the OP are just astonishing, ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity. Damn, now I feel like I've been taking things for granted living here in the US.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
And this is the icing on the cake. They hate the country that is the reason they aren't under Communist rule and the reason why they aren't in the 3rd world. Please tell me you are joking me. Oh, and let's not forget about the part about being hardcore xenophobes...
IDK rotinegg, but you really spilled the beans on a lot of things about Korea I've heard all about but was hoping wasn't true as the norm. Wow. I used to have a huge bias in favor of Koreans. Even dated a couple. I just don't know anymore. Like someone else said, I'm glad I don't live in Korea. Maybe I should be more thankful I live in the USA. The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this is one fucking great country.
Is a heck of a lot more messed up than any culture I've seen. So incredibly clear-cut blanket assumptions based on the little bit of information he just learned. It would be like if I assumed this was the way all Americans were: makes ridiculous conclusions over very little information, insufferably arrogant and patriotic, insults anything foreign or strange, and has no concept of points of view or opinions. EDIT: I hit post instead of preview -.-;;
You should read people's posts, in particular my reply to OneOther's reply to me, before making comments under a single assumption that is just wrong, that this is the first time I've heard about it (not to mention other absurd assumptions about me that you made in this post). It isn't something I'm new to based on this "little bit of information I just learned". No, I didn't just learn it. This is stuff I've learned about and followed and have been told over and over for the past 5 years. With that assumption out of the way, your reply to me just doesn't have a basis to it, along with the other assumptions in the post that stem from it, but are nonetheless just as unfounded.
Yea I was editing my post to take your new posts into consideration but since you already replied, I guess I'll just make a new post. (You guys all post so fast -.-; I see it's not just off this blog post. But my point still stands, you haven't even been to Korea (I assume?) and yet write off the culture as being
ridiculous beyond measure, if not absurd to the point of hilarity.
The way I see it, I much prefer living in Korea. A society that puts emphasis on being the best you can be, including physical appearance. I'm so tired of walking outside seeing kids just bumming around in outfits they clearly took 0 effort in putting together. First impressions are SO important in life and yet there's such a big stigma for being shallow. I'm not being shallow; everyone agrees that you need to dress/look really well for a job interview. So why not for your friends or soon-to-be friends? Are they not worth it for you? Your future spouse, your parents, your kids? People seem to take pride in dressing down, especially in college. Kids in my lectures who show up with a nice blazer or cardigan are always made fun of. "lol I bet he's gay, what a fag". Even if you don't agree with their sense of fashion, the only reason they went through the trouble of wearing/buying that outfit was to try and show what they think is their best side. I feel like that's something very respectable and yet apparently it's so uncool. I'm not saying we should all walk around in suits everyday, I know I have a lot of days where I look pretty awful. Korea is just the other end of the spectrum. I for one would really be motivated in Korea to try and look as presentable as I could on a day-to-day basis. You and I obviously have differing ideas on what we want but just because it's different, to write it off as "shitty" is ridiculous.
If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
"The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
One thing I noticed while I was in Korea was that everyone (well, maybe 90% of people) was pretty damn stylish ie. just looking at people on the subway. I'm not Korean or anything (still Asian though) but even I found myself just taking a bit of extra effort in my appearance - bit more time fixing my hair, shaving that tiny bit of stubble etc before I set out for work.
Having said that, I never noticed any discrimination towards me.. and neither did my (white) friend who I stayed with. But I don't think anyone should be worried about their appearance negatively affecting their time in Korea, if they were to spend a week or two there.
On March 19 2012 16:38 phame21 wrote: BTW is it really that cold in Korea? those padded jumpers look like what Everest climbers would wear.
I was there throughout all of February this year, and it got to around -10ºC regularly. That's the coldest I've ever experienced anywhere, but I'm sure it gets colder in other parts of the world. My tip: scarf/gloves/earmuffs more important than a thick jacket!
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide (South Korea is a pretty stressful and depressed place), eventually having a nice home (still a student) rather than a tiny flat I can hardly even afford even with a good-paying professional job, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not constantly fearing being in a devastating war, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite? Yeah, makes me wonder why my parents' families immigrated to the US, and not to Korea or Australia x).
On March 19 2012 15:56 duk3 wrote: I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
i'm not the op but i know anyway: its the same as everywhere, its quite loose, big, and waterproof.
"Everywhere"? Ski fashion has been modeled after pro outfits for years and is as tight and sexy as possible. The only people wearing loose gear are free style skiers and some leftover snow boarders. Even most snowboarders go for the pro look these days. Generally in Euro ski areas you can spot Americans from a mile away for their baggy ski outfits.
To stay on topic, I would be interested how this looks in Korea too, do you know OP?
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about a western uni student in a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
On March 19 2012 15:56 duk3 wrote: I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
i'm not the op but i know anyway: its the same as everywhere, its quite loose, big, and waterproof.
"Everywhere"? Ski fashion has been modeled after pro outfits for years and is as tight and sexy as possible. The only people wearing loose gear are free style skiers and some leftover snow boarders. Even most snowboarders go for the pro look these days. Generally in Euro ski areas you can spot Americans from a mile away for their baggy ski outfits.
To stay on topic, I would be interested how this looks in Korea too, do you know OP?
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about wearing a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
I was talking about flats in Korea, not Australia. Damn, you are really pissed. Chill out dude. You slander my country on things that are just unfounded except in very specific places (like UniversalSlip pointed out), and when I lay down the facts of the matter, you call it blind patriotism. Lol.
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about wearing a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
I was talking about flats in Korea, not Australia. Damn, you are really pissed. Chill out dude. You slander my country on things that are just unfounded except in very specific places (like UniversalSlip pointed out), and when I lay down the facts of the matter, you call it blind patriotism. Lol.
You slander Korea without even visiting. I'm living here atm, in a small flat. So I'm the slanderer and you're just laying down the facts...lol
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about wearing a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
I was talking about flats in Korea, not Australia. Damn, you are really pissed. Chill out dude. You slander my country on things that are just unfounded except in very specific places (like UniversalSlip pointed out), and when I lay down the facts of the matter, you call it blind patriotism. Lol.
You slander Korea without even visiting. I'm living here atm, in a small flat. So I'm the slanderer and you're just laying down the facts...lol
Nowhere did I slander Korea, unless claiming that the US is a better place to live overall is slandering Korea HAHA. Rather, you jumped to the front to insult the US. What we do know for certain is you're PO'd as heck. Lol chill out bro. Yes, it is a fact of the matter that the stuff you said about the US is completely false except in several specific locations. I don't see why you are in denial of that.
Its unfortunate to hear that this shallow culture is so prevalent in Korea, though I'm sure not everyone in Korea likes how it is at the moment.
I mean, not EVERYONE thinks alike. Otherwise I'm getting the impression that say all Americans are idiots, which is not the case (though it seemingly seems like there's a significant chunk of uneducated Americans).
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about wearing a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
I was talking about flats in Korea, not Australia. Damn, you are really pissed. Chill out dude. You slander my country on things that are just unfounded except in very specific places (like UniversalSlip pointed out), and when I lay down the facts of the matter, you call it blind patriotism. Lol.
You slander Korea without even visiting. I'm living here atm, in a small flat. So I'm the slanderer and you're just laying down the facts...lol
Nowhere did I slander Korea, unless claiming that the US is a better place to live overall is slandering Korea HAHA.
Absurd beyond belief, insane, way messed up etc. Im pretty sure that counts as shitting on Korea and then you top it off by saying how fucking great your country is in comparison.
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I hope your not serious. I mean, do you really believe in generalisations of a country?
Could you post more information on Korean skin care? I think I would really benefit from better skin care... I'm 6'0 and have good proportions but I use no skin products at all and I can tell it brings down my appearance.
What do most korean men use and where can I find it? :D
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I hope your not serious. I mean, do you really believe in generalisations of a country?
If he's going to call Korea insane then I dont see any problem calling America an unsafe place to live with a government that doesn't prioritise health/education over military spending.
From the sounds of it i'd love living in Korea! ^.^ Wouldn't have to hide (from most people) the fact that I put so much time & effort into my skin, hair and fashion. Plus I'm 6ft2 :3
I genuinely didn't have a clue Korea was like this. I thought it was all communist and old-fashioned! Thanks for opening my eyes. I'll probably start idolizing Korea more than I do Japan soon!
This article's cheered me up on a depressing Monday morning! Thanks OP! ^^
I bought some Korean business pants the other day off yesstyle and I can't even fit my balls into that thing it was THAT skinny. Seriously wtf... the picture didn't look skinny at all or maybe I'm just fat now...
One time I was walking around the mini K town place and my blue collar white friend asked me why everyone got a faggy haircut, I had to LOL on that one even though I'm Asian as well.
Seriously though, I would hate to live in Korea, such ridiculous expectations and stress.
On March 19 2012 17:42 Scarecrow wrote: "The more I learn about other countries, the more I realize this [US] is one fucking great country." ...
I'd much rather a country where it's safe to walk around at night. Where I can leave my wallet on a bench and come back and find it untouched an hour later. Where I don't need a gun to protect my family and people actually prioritise health and education. No nation's perfect but I'd much rather live in most first world countries, particularly Korea, ahead of the US.
I walk around at night rather often, and it's quite safe. Okay, the second thing, let's not be stupid. You do that anywhere, and there's a good chance your wallet will get jacked. Not all the time, but it will happen often. I don't need a gun, and neither does anyone else I know. Health and education is pretty important it nearly everyone I know. Overall, your argument is invalid.
Nice try (not really), but take the anti-Americanism some place else.
And Korea ahead of the US? Considering the rest of your post, I'd have to say you're trolling. Because not being stressed to the point of near suicide, having a nice home rather than a tiny flat I can't even afford, living in a society that accepts and embraces other races and ethnicities rather than hates them, not fearing being devastating war constantly, a society less vain and impersonal, the country that has made the most scientific and technological advancements in the world (that wouldn't happen if we didn't value education), among a plethora of other things, is obviously so much worse than living in Korea, amirite?
I'm not trolling and you're deluded. Your arguments are just as valid as mine, Korea as a whole isn't stressed to near suicide. Tiny flats here aren't expensive at all if you have any sort of job. Impersonal? Koreans are the most friendly, communal people I know. Seriously you have nfi what you're talking about. Go take your blind patriotism elsewhere.
On March 19 2012 17:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: If you wish to live in Korea, then by all means, be my guest . I really value taking care of oneself, but in Korea, the whole "fitting into one specific mold" thing with make-up, surgery, fashion, accessories, etc. to the point of insanity is just astonishing, including for a guy like me who likes being an individual, and the great thing about the US (yes there is a lot of groupy-ism) is that people can be the way they like in terms of all facets of life, and that's perfectly acceptable. You aren't demonized to hell if you were studying all night and you had an early morning class and wore a hoodie. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable given the situation doesn't require being insane about fashion and looks.
I dress decently for my friends and family and whoever and dress appropriately for the occasion, but I'm not going to take it to the extreme of getting my hair permed/wax, wearing make-up/bbcream, and wearing clothing that looks a bit girly/metrosexual all day every day like is the style among Korean dudes :S. Oh god it would be silly for a guy like me to wear girly looking clothes :/. It just would not go with me at all XD, uh not to mention the make-up and hair treatments. I look manly, and I take pride in that. People will certainly think I fell off my rocker if I did that sort of thing haha.
There's NOTHING individual about wearing a hoodie, it's like the North Face jacket for students here. The western world just has different values and a ton of different subcultures that people adhere to whilst considering themselves individuals. Just cause you think men using makeup is gay doesn't mean there's anything wrong with korean culture. Ironically in that case they're a bit more free-thinking than most westerners. If women try to look good, why shouldn't men? Manliness is just an archaic excuse for being lazy and putting a minimal amount of effort into appearance and hygiene. Funny how in your last sentence you're actually conforming to what people expect from you ('manliness') and are unwilling to change. Just like how korean men refuse to change because they'll be made fun of. Try and get some cultural perspective and you'll see the Koreans are no more insane than you or I.
I was talking about flats in Korea, not Australia. Damn, you are really pissed. Chill out dude. You slander my country on things that are just unfounded except in very specific places (like UniversalSlip pointed out), and when I lay down the facts of the matter, you call it blind patriotism. Lol.
You slander Korea without even visiting. I'm living here atm, in a small flat. So I'm the slanderer and you're just laying down the facts...lol
Nowhere did I slander Korea, unless claiming that the US is a better place to live overall is slandering Korea HAHA.
Absurd beyond belief, insane, way messed up etc. Im pretty sure that counts as shitting on Korea and then you top it off by saying how fucking great your country is in comparison.
That degree of vanity and ridiculous bigtime stress-inducing social norms, a xenophobic society (even as a light-skinned dude that wouldn't come under as much hate as other people, I really, really don't like this), and a pop/youth culture where you better adhere to a certain style/mold or you're looked down upon to a strong degree, among many other things, is pretty crazy bro. That's not shitting on them by observing simple realities about their society lol. Sorry if you're butthurt. And yes, despite your anti-Americanism, the US is a great country. I know you don't like the US for whatever reason, but it's a damn great place, especially SoCal . And it's thanks to heavy and committed American economic relations, development, and investment in places like Aus and Korea that they are able to have the lifestyles they do today.
I think that scarecrow is right, JudicatorHammurabi. He didn't really slander the U.S. other than implying that it's not the safest place on Earth, but neither is S.K. so that point is kind of moot. However you really did slander Korea but saying that its ideals are "insane"
Also for your points as to why the U.S. is awesome; Stress- Fair point S.K. has 3 times the suicide rate of the U.S., HomePrice- Hard to compare but we'll go with Seoul vs N.Y.C. and Rent in Seoul is 63% lower than New york. Racism- America is still not quite over Racism and the views of a lot of people on Hispanics is borderline so this one is subjective. War- We are constantly in war and the cost is pretty crippling so I would say the U.S. is actually worse off. Societal Vanity- America is very vain. I see more news about Kim Kardashian or Peyton Manning than Mitt Romney. But S.K. is still worse. Past Technological Achievements=Education? This is just not true. Just because we used to be the smart kids doesn't mean we still are. I can name 10 countries off the top of my head with far superior public education than the U.S. we honestly have a terrible system that needs to be reformed. This one goes by far to S.K.
On March 19 2012 18:59 Glastnost wrote: I think that scarecrow is right, JudicatorHammurabi. He didn't really slander the U.S. other than implying that it's not the safest place on Earth, but neither is S.K. so that point is kind of moot. However you really did slander Korea but saying that its ideals are "insane"
Also for your points as to why the U.S. is awesome; Stress- Fair point S.K. has 3 times the suicide rate of the U.S., HomePrice- Hard to compare but we'll go with Seoul vs N.Y.C. and Rent in Seoul is 63% lower than New york. Racism- America is still not quite over Racism and the views of a lot of people on Hispanics is borderline so this one is subjective. War- We are constantly in war and the cost is pretty crippling so I would say the U.S. is actually worse off. Societal Vanity- America is very vain. I see more news about Kim Kardashian or Peyton Manning than Mitt Romney. But S.K. is still worse. Past Technological Achievements=Education? This is just not true. Just because we used to be the smart kids doesn't mean we still are. I can name 10 countries off the top of my head with far superior public education than the U.S. we honestly have a terrible system that needs to be reformed. This one goes by far to S.K.
Celebrities of that nature are one thing. The hugely overwhelming majority of the young to possibly as old as early middle-aged of an entire society is another.
Ultra powerful imperialist nations will often be at war. It's a simple historical fact since the Akkadians.
Even to this day, the US is at the forefront of innovation and research. That's not the past. That's the present. And while our public elementary and high school education may not be the best, our university education is the best in the world, to a point that it just is not debatable.
On March 19 2012 18:59 Glastnost wrote: I think that scarecrow is right, JudicatorHammurabi. He didn't really slander the U.S. other than implying that it's not the safest place on Earth, but neither is S.K. so that point is kind of moot. However you really did slander Korea but saying that its ideals are "insane"
Also for your points as to why the U.S. is awesome; Stress- Fair point S.K. has 3 times the suicide rate of the U.S., HomePrice- Hard to compare but we'll go with Seoul vs N.Y.C. and Rent in Seoul is 63% lower than New york. Racism- America is still not quite over Racism and the views of a lot of people on Hispanics is borderline so this one is subjective. War- We are constantly in war and the cost is pretty crippling so I would say the U.S. is actually worse off. Societal Vanity- America is very vain. I see more news about Kim Kardashian or Peyton Manning than Mitt Romney. But S.K. is still worse. Past Technological Achievements=Education? This is just not true. Just because we used to be the smart kids doesn't mean we still are. I can name 10 countries off the top of my head with far superior public education than the U.S. we honestly have a terrible system that needs to be reformed. This one goes by far to S.K.
Are you kidding? America is super relaxed and no one gives a fuck about anything. There's no need to adhere to "social norms" by getting surgury or buying expensive shit to fit in. It's pretty safe and guns aren't necessary unless you live in Compton or the Texas border.
Yeah those points were just observations and didn't really have much to do with scarecrow. As far as he's concerned though; I really don't think he's being anti-american. I think at most he's a little upset because you keep trivializing and degrading S.K. culture. It's probably unintentional but the way you're arguing your points is pretty insulting to someone who is South Korean. And I think he's responding more to that than voicing some anti-american belief.
On March 19 2012 15:56 duk3 wrote: I wonder how iNcontrol would be received in Korea.
rotinegg, what are the ski/snowboard fashions like in Korea? Are baggy clothes worn then? In the US, most ski outfits are pretty loose besides ones for racing.
i'm not the op but i know anyway: its the same as everywhere, its quite loose, big, and waterproof.
"Everywhere"? Ski fashion has been modeled after pro outfits for years and is as tight and sexy as possible. The only people wearing loose gear are free style skiers and some leftover snow boarders. Even most snowboarders go for the pro look these days. Generally in Euro ski areas you can spot Americans from a mile away for their baggy ski outfits.
To stay on topic, I would be interested how this looks in Korea too, do you know OP?
mate it's still loose compared to the clothes you wear normally. How can you possibly ski if you're wearing clothes that don't have any loose cloth at the back, or pants that are fitted against your leg?
I didn't say it was super loose or anything but I assumed the question was in comparison with the street clothing, and yes, it has to be looser than normal clothes.
I'm sorry if thats not what you were after, perhaps i misunderstood, and u were talking about looseness compared to other ski gear, lol
This was an amazing blog rotinegg. I'm not Korean and I couldn't care less about buying expensive clothes just to "fit in", but nonetheless there's a wealth of information in this blog that I gleaned.
People should be giving this more love. Since it's spotlighted, I hope said love will come.
Whoa holy just kidding I started typing this response when there were 2 pages, went to play DotA, came back, and now there's 14 pages.
nice read! I learned a lot. I've been hearing this 등신 thing many times and now I finally understand fully. One thing not mentioned was how Koreans groom their eyebrows. In the states atleast I hardly see guys give a damn about their eyebrows.
crazy stuff, not going to go pro US or anything but reading this blog kinda makes me "ehh..." talking about fashion & culture is ok by itself, but there is something obsessive with the stuff i'm reading with ratios and surgeries...
Great read, thank you for such a well thought-out and detailed post. All the people that obsess about Korean culture on this website should really read this.
Great blog! I kind of feel that this applies somewhat to other Asian countries as well like Singapore and Malaysia, though not to the same extent that it is in Korea.
On March 19 2012 20:55 mrGRAPE wrote: Great blog! I kind of feel that this applies somewhat to other Asian countries as well like Singapore and Malaysia, though not to the same extent that it is in Korea.
singapore is somewhat similar, but the social "loser" outcasting that happens if you don't fit in is MUCH much worse in korea (the worst out of all the countries that i personally know of), and it is really costly to just fit in. singapore if you try to fit in then you're cool, if you don't then it's still not too bad, but in korea it's much worse
As bad as I feel about admitting this, reading this only confirmed some of the suspicions I had about the way many of the foreign Korean students at my school act. Granted there are some very nice ones as well, but many of them act exactly as described here. If that's how their culture is though then there's no helping it? I don't know... interesting read though, I enjoyed it.
Beautiful language, toxic society by the sounds of it. I had heard that Korean women are all gold digging tramps without exception, but I wasn't sure just how accurate that analysis was.
On March 19 2012 21:25 Vorgrim wrote: Beautiful language, toxic society by the sounds of it. I had heard that Korean women are all gold digging tramps without exception, but I wasn't sure just how accurate that analysis was.
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Dear god. I really wouldn't make it there. What are the anti-American sentiments from, anyways? Do Koreans feel like we step on their toes too much or is it about some past incidents with American soldiers?
On March 19 2012 06:26 ymir233 wrote: But on the other hand, the good thing is if you act enough of a 'foreigner' (by that I mean living outside of Korea long enough) and show off enough of an aura when you come back, people won't care what the fuck you do as long as you're not an axe murderer. Most likely either you can laugh at peoples' shirts for having unintelligible English phrases or they'll be impressed enough by your foreign-ness to hire you as an Engrish tutor.
Purposely acting like a 'foreigner' is a surefire way to get your ass beat due to the predominant anti-American sentiments
Dear god. I really wouldn't make it there. What are the anti-American sentiments from, anyways? Do Koreans feel like we step on their toes too much or is it about some past incidents with American soldiers?
On March 19 2012 19:06 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Even to this day, the US is at the forefront of innovation and research. That's not the past. That's the present. And while our public elementary and high school education may not be the best, our university education is the best in the world, to a point that it just is not debatable.
If anyone else needs more examples on this - check out:
"Dr. Michio Kaku speaks about how America's poor educational system has created a shortage of Americans who can perform high skilled technology jobs. As a result, America's H-1B Genius visa is used to attract immigrants who are skilled enough to perform these jobs."
On March 19 2012 18:41 haduken wrote: Seriously though, I would hate to live in Korea, such ridiculous expectations and stress.
Great transportation system though. You don't really need a car to get around and don't have to worry about parking.
Also late night food - mostly chicken and beer but I'd definitely down Korean food more than American fast food if available.
I'm sure OP or whoever will expand on more stuff like this.
On March 19 2012 18:29 Synapze wrote: Could you post more information on Korean skin care? I think I would really benefit from better skin care... I'm 6'0 and have good proportions but I use no skin products at all and I can tell it brings down my appearance.
What do most korean men use and where can I find it? :D
On March 19 2012 18:14 Meteora.GB wrote: Its unfortunate to hear that this shallow culture is so prevalent in Korea, though I'm sure not everyone in Korea likes how it is at the moment.
I mean, not EVERYONE thinks alike. Otherwise I'm getting the impression that say all Americans are idiots, which is not the case (though it seemingly seems like there's a significant chunk of uneducated Americans).
Yeah, specifically in education which is outside of this topic - there have been recent changes in how students have been feeling about upper education. In a country where education is king, some students have even dropped out of universities because they don't agree that it's necessarily the only path to success anymore.
As for younger education, at least for the families that can afford it, some students are being sent to international schools just because parents don't want their children going through the Korean education system. There's less pressure and you definitely avoid stupid shit like students making such a fuss over North Face jackets.
There is a hivemind mentality though and some people don't speak out just to avoid being ostracized.
On March 19 2012 21:34 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Dear god. I really wouldn't make it there. What are the anti-American sentiments from, anyways? Do Koreans feel like we step on their toes too much or is it about some past incidents with American soldiers?
On March 19 2012 21:25 Vorgrim wrote: Beautiful language, toxic society by the sounds of it. I had heard that Korean women are all gold digging tramps without exception, but I wasn't sure just how accurate that analysis was.
Trying to look good does not make someone a gold digging tramp -.- So much of it is simply about improving self-esteem and keeping up appearances.
On March 19 2012 21:11 crumunch wrote: As bad as I feel about admitting this, reading this only confirmed some of the suspicions I had about the way many of the foreign Korean students at my school act. Granted there are some very nice ones as well
Since when does doing hair/makeup or even a nose job preclude you from being a nice person?
On March 19 2012 21:11 crumunch wrote: As bad as I feel about admitting this, reading this only confirmed some of the suspicions I had about the way many of the foreign Korean students at my school act. Granted there are some very nice ones as well
Since when does doing hair/makeup or even a nose job preclude you from being a nice person?
I want to extend something extra that this is the nearly the same for all first-world east asian countries, especially especially Japan. Those who've been to Tokyo before will probably know what I'm talking about. And it's quickly catching up in the rest of asia due to the large surge of south korean popular culture all across asia in the late 90s and early 2000s (and it's still continuing now).
The culture here (I won't blame the girls) prefer 花美男 pretty boys that are slightly more androgynous, metrosexual is all the rage, so being overly buffed and muscular is not very popular.
On March 19 2012 11:25 Eufouria wrote: What do guys in Korea look for aside from a pretty face. In the west it would be girls with nice boobs and asses is it the same in Korea because I imagine its not the same as being thin is valued so much.
Legs and personality.
On March 19 2012 15:29 ChriS-X wrote: it would not bode well to be a poor ass student in korea....
On March 19 2012 21:25 Vorgrim wrote: Beautiful language, toxic society by the sounds of it. I had heard that Korean women are all gold digging tramps without exception, but I wasn't sure just how accurate that analysis was.
because my fiancee is marrying me because of my tremendous wealth...
you'd be surprised how far being nice gets you even in korea
wow, thanks for the share, OP. In my opinion, this does not weight in favor of SK at all, but, well... I just hope it doesn't make too many people there unhappy for stupid reasons.
I heard many times that SK is quite xenophobic. Is it true? to what extent? Is it true even if you can speak korean a little?
Its quite surprising for me; the only country I know in Asia is Taiwan, and people here are just incredibly nice to foreigners (sometimes I still suspect some scam/joke when they call all their friends to try to answer a question as unimportant as "what's the name of this fruit?")
The skin bit was interesting. Its the same in indian culture where light skin is favoured. But this is mainly due to it looking better with coloured materials > Indians love bright colours. But cosmetically they dont go anywhere as far as SKoreans. I think bleaching skin is the most common form of lightening it.
I get mixed feelings from reading this. Of course it does not make a good impression, even though this was talked about thousands of times before. Its scary how shallow this culture is, yet it is definitely an exaggeration. Imo not even 20% of koreans will look as flawless as described, maybe many were undergoing surgeries but good appearance takes way more than one operation. So the vibe we get from here that most koreans will put regular westerners/non-korean asians to shame is not reality.
Im sure this pressure to fit in is dominant and manifests everywhere possible, but theres definitely people that just dont give a fuck and dress the way they want. Theres art students that will never wear that disgusting Northface jacket, theres also 'normal' guys that just look casual and are comfortable with it.
In Eastern Europe, as Im sure everywhere else to an extent too, similar stereotypes do exist. Nowhere near as severe, but you will be made fun of for looking different both in physical appearance and clothing. Some nations are still very homogenous which partially causes the mentality. US students all wear Northface and uggs and carry iphones - and thats the most diverse country in the world too.
By the way, the switch from flowery boys to beasty boys is non-reversible. It is not fashion. Looks start to matter more, therefore theres pressure to work out and be healthy. Weve had no example of going to physically fit sex symbols and then reverting to abstract flowery types with unpronounced shape. Maybe we are heading in the same direction after all, just taking different routes.
Oh lordy interesting blog for sure, I thought that I'd ask if my looks would be a problem... But I really suspect that frecklefaced-redheaded people with curls are perceived with the same impression everywhere: You are weird, wassup?
Wish you wrote more about the personality part though
On March 19 2012 22:51 Yenticha wrote: Its quite surprising for me; the only country I know in Asia is Taiwan, and people here are just incredibly nice to foreigners (sometimes I still suspect some scam/joke when they call all their friends to try to answer a question as unimportant as "what's the name of this fruit?")
It's pretty much the same, whenever I've had problems I get help thrown at me and sub-committees of strangers trying to help me out.
On March 19 2012 23:00 Iplaythings wrote: Also, how do koreans treat facial hair for males?
Employees generally have to be clean shaven. Mostly it's considered dirty/unkempt. Some celebs pull it off though but it's got to be well groomed.
On March 19 2012 09:01 rotinegg wrote: Confucian idealogy runs deep in Korean history and they prohibit you from mutilating your body in any way, including hair.
Yet so many people are getting plastic surgery -_-
Fascinating blog, matches up well with some things MightyAtom has said in the past.
I don't know anything about Korean culture, but my offhand guess would be that height/ratios are increasingly being seen as important because they are harder to alter (via surgery) than other things.
On March 19 2012 22:51 Yenticha wrote: Its quite surprising for me; the only country I know in Asia is Taiwan, and people here are just incredibly nice to foreigners (sometimes I still suspect some scam/joke when they call all their friends to try to answer a question as unimportant as "what's the name of this fruit?")
It's pretty much the same, whenever I've had problems I get help thrown at me and sub-committees of strangers trying to help me out.
On March 19 2012 23:28 nosliw wrote: nice blog! got into korean culture through kpop. this was very interesting.
How can someone from outside Korea "get into" this sick culture?!
Don't get my wrong, I sympathize with koreans (especially women) who have to live up to an impossible ideal and get labeled as worthless losers for trying to define their own identity, but how can someone he hasn't been "brainwashed" from a small age find this sort of thing attracting? Do you think people in western cultures aren't defined enough on their appaerence?
And it's not even whether or not people take care of themself. If you are born short you're just not gonna make it anywhere. If your head is slightly too large compared to your body you can forget getting a high ranked wife. "Wide nose? sorry mate but we've already filled our quota of physically disabled"
On March 19 2012 22:51 Yenticha wrote: wow, thanks for the share, OP. In my opinion, this does not weight in favor of SK at all, but, well... I just hope it doesn't make too many people there unhappy for stupid reasons.
I heard many times that SK is quite xenophobic. Is it true? to what extent? Is it true even if you can speak korean a little?
Its quite surprising for me; the only country I know in Asia is Taiwan, and people here are just incredibly nice to foreigners (sometimes I still suspect some scam/joke when they call all their friends to try to answer a question as unimportant as "what's the name of this fruit?")
They won't disrespect you if you are a non-Asian foreigner, and in fact they will be quite nice and respectful to you. It's just that you will always be 'that foreigner,' and never truly one of them.
On March 19 2012 09:01 rotinegg wrote: Confucian idealogy runs deep in Korean history and they prohibit you from mutilating your body in any way, including hair.
Yet so many people are getting plastic surgery -_-
There's a big mismatch in ideology between the older, old, and younger generations, and other factors at play, such as the unconditional parental love that is unseen in western cultures; I should have expanded more on that in the OP.
Thanks for the post, its very interesting, and also a bit scary, but obviously there are aspects of Korea that are awesome as well (like starcraft on TV!), its just very weird to a westerner reading about this though.
From what I heard Tattoos are not allowed in the Korean Military. What happens to the male celebrities with tattoos who have yet to serve the mandatory 2 year service?
On March 20 2012 00:11 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: From what I heard Tattoos are not allowed in the Korean Military. What happens to the male celebrities with tattoos who have yet to serve the mandatory 2 year service?
They changed the law so as long you aren't totally disabled you pretty much will go. People used to all sorts of crazy things like cut off a toe or pinky or deliberately rupture their ACL to avoid military service, but nowadays even those won't save you from military duty. The limit for tattoos I believe is if at least 10% of your skin is uncovered by tattoos, you are still eligible and required to serve.
I'm a Korean adoptee living in Norway. I'm 1.80m, skinny, broad shoulders, natural double eyelids, V-shaped face and HEAD TO HEGHT RATIO OF 7.9 - Does this mean I would be the shit in SK? :D
Um I don't know if anyone has asked about this yet but what exactly is 깔창 in english? It was mentioned with G-Dragon's shoes to help him with his height.
On March 20 2012 00:17 Verrano wrote: I'm a Korean adoptee living in Norway. I'm 1.80m, skinny, broad shoulders, natural double eyelids, V-shaped face and HEAD TO HEGHT RATIO OF 7.9 - Does this mean I would be the shit in SK? :D
you could have been part of the likes of 2PM
On March 20 2012 00:18 Snuggles wrote: Um I don't know if anyone has asked about this yet but what exactly is 깔창 in english? It was mentioned with G-Dragon's shoes to help him with his height.
Being a 5'5" shorty I could use a few inches...
Kkalchang, height boosting soles, don't really know how else to explain. Here's where you can find them in the US: http://whole4u.com/shop/ The $11.99 one is the one I own, but I gave away the bottom two layers to my friend. It comes in a pack of 1cm, 2cm and 3cm soles, and they can be assembled together to form a 6cm booster, but this won't fit in most shoes.
@JudicatorHammabi You have to give respect that almost all (if not all) Asian countries have been 'invaded' by other countries and Western Civilization at some point in their history. Our ancestors lived through their days in constant 'fear' of getting harassed/enslaved/raped.
Yes you should be glad you're American. You were the first superpower, and no one ever dared mess with your country until recently with Bin Laden. I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't call other cultures shitty. There's a reason for all the racism, anti-American remarks, etc.
It's part of the East Asian culture that you have to really take care of your outer appearance and blend in with society. If you look way different, then people would look at you differently (in negative way). That's just how the culture is. Just take the information about other cultures and go. No need to say things like: insane, shitty, etc. Okay you think that Korean culture is shitty and everything - keep it to yourself, cuz you're only gonna hurt other people by telling the world about it. If you don't believe me, take the UCLA girl incident (pretty sure you knew about this).
Just respect other cultures man. I might be Indonesian, but I rejoice living here in USA. People are very open and friendly to each other, and very seldom do they judge other people by their looks. I know this won't be possible in my home country, so I'll just adjust myself back to fit in my home culture again. My relative lives in Japan, so I've been to East Asia lots of times and yeah, it's different there, so adjust accordingly.
On March 20 2012 00:17 Verrano wrote: I'm a Korean adoptee living in Norway. I'm 1.80m, skinny, broad shoulders, natural double eyelids, V-shaped face and HEAD TO HEGHT RATIO OF 7.9 - Does this mean I would be the shit in SK? :D
you could have been part of the likes of 2PM
No, but seriously. Would I automatically be treated as "attractive" based on those features? (given that other features are normal-attractive and not incredibly ugly).
So what I got from this blog: Korea is a land of amazingly beautiful people who try really hard to be beautiful in order to create a country filled with beautiful people. What a kickass country to visit.
Question: Why don't Koreans go to equal length to take care of their teeth? Most Americans value perfectly straight, perfectly white teeth which seems in total contrast to Korea.
On March 20 2012 00:17 Verrano wrote: I'm a Korean adoptee living in Norway. I'm 1.80m, skinny, broad shoulders, natural double eyelids, V-shaped face and HEAD TO HEGHT RATIO OF 7.9 - Does this mean I would be the shit in SK? :D
you could have been part of the likes of 2PM
No, but seriously. Would I automatically be treated as "attractive" based on those features? (given that other features are normal-attractive and not incredibly ugly).
I think so. Also if u would care of ur face / clothes. As it was mentioned in the blog. ^^
On March 20 2012 00:49 setzer wrote: Question: Why don't Koreans go to equal length to take care of their teeth? Most Americans value perfectly straight, perfectly white teeth which seems in total contrast to Korea.
I think you're confusing korea and japan, bracers are pretty common in korea and straight, white teeth are valued
And also i would like to chip in few cents of my own knowledge. Like when there are auditions for singers, dancers, actors, models or what ever else you going for height / looks are the most important thing - almost the only important thing. They say that things like acting, singing, dancing and what not, all of that can be learned through being a trainee. But main characteristics of your body you CANT change. Like your height, or the body ratio as blog mentioned.
So even if you are great dancer/singer, if you are not tall or at least have the body ratio, there is no way that you will be signed. Also there is a very famous korean singer - Rain, that said " In fact, I was told after one audition that my singing and dancing was great but I did not make it because I did not have double eyelids.". Eventually, he was signed to JYP and was one of the biggest stars in Asia to this day.
So if a guy like that almost lost his way to be a singer purely because of not having double eyelids, they you can see how it is with korean industry.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
I would be the bomb in Korea by the standards set out, except my eyes being the wrong shape. I actually think the no double eyelids on korean guys looks really cool. I get complimented on my eyes all the time, but I can see why Pangirls swoon so hard over it.
I don't have any problem with people looking after their appearance, I go to the gym for strength training purposes and that has afforded me a great body, but I could never personally have any sort of cosmetic surgery or wear makeup of any type. I feel kinda ridiculous if I spend more than 10 seconds doing my hair.
We can't really judge SK by our own standards because it's much more conservative and homogenised than the melting pot of western culture. I definitely plan to have a SK holiday sometime soon, if only to gorge myself on food and watch some starcraft.
edit: 1:8.3 ratio, which according to wikipedia puts me somewhere between ideal and heroic. hawt.
On March 20 2012 00:58 mtn wrote: And also i would like to chip in few cents of my own knowledge. Like when there are auditions for singers, dancers, actors, models or what ever else you going for height / looks are the most important thing - almost the only important thing. They say that things like acting, singing, dancing and what not, all of that can be learned through being a trainee. But main characteristics of your body you CANT change. Like your height, or the body ratio as blog mentioned.
So even if you are great dancer/singer, if you are not tall or at least have the body ratio, there is no way that you will be signed. Also there is a very famous korean singer - Rain, that said " In fact, I was told after one audition that my singing and dancing was great but I did not make it because I did not have double eyelids.". Eventually, he was signed to JYP and was one of the biggest stars in Asia to this day.
So if a guy like that almost lost his way to be a singer purely because of not having double eyelids, they you can see how it is with korean industry.
It used to be that way, but agencies are slowly moving away from that trend by signing incredibly talented singers with less than stellar looks. The first group that comes to mind is YG, which signed Big Bang and 2NE1. The commonality between Big Bang and 2NE1 is that they have (had) 1 good looking person who would be the 'face' of the group, and the rest were talented, but not incredibly attractive, members. The 'face madam' of Big Bang was TOP, with a bombshell of a face and a stellar height (rumored to be around 5'11" although there are doubts - some say he is shorter), while the rest of the group is closer to the 5'7" mark, and while decent looking, none would be considered 'idols' purely from their looks. For 2NE1, it was Sandara Park, and the rest of the group was casted due to a specialty they had - Park Bom's voice, CL's rap/swagger and Minji's dance skills. Here is a no-makeup, pre-Parkbom surgery compilation of their faces that got leaked and caushed a huge uproar. + Show Spoiler +
However, as time went by, people started appreciating the talented members just as much as, if not more than, the face madams, and with recent additions of American Idol-esque talent shows like Kpop Star, the focus is shifting from looks to talent, at least in the music industry. Just go on youtube and search for 박지민 or 이하이 and you will see what I'm saying - incredibly young and talented, but not so good looking.
On March 20 2012 00:58 drbrown wrote: So basically the ideal for a man in south korea is to not be manly?
Here are some of the more popular male celebrities. I'm not saying they are all like this, but there is a decent amount of pressure from media for guys to bulk up and stay in shape. You be the judge.
would the ppl that know korea take at look at this video?
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
On March 20 2012 00:49 setzer wrote: Question: Why don't Koreans go to equal length to take care of their teeth? Most Americans value perfectly straight, perfectly white teeth which seems in total contrast to Korea.
I think you're confusing korea and japan, bracers are pretty common in korea and straight, white teeth are valued
Maybe it's just my incredibly shallow look into Korean culture, but compared to the amount of work and care Koreans put into their face/hair I don't see it with their teeth. Plenty of progamers, I have noticed, have really crooked teeth and are past the ideal age to have braces. Hydra, for example, looks like a shark when he smiles.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
Thanks rotinegg, I can't wait for em to come through the mail.
On March 20 2012 00:27 OneOther wrote: I don't know how I feel about height boosting soles...just own up to your height and work your other qualities!
Honestly when you're as short as I am, height becomes a much bigger deal than it should be. Even if you know better, meaning understanding that height isn't everything, it's still in the back of your mind. I mean if you're able to completely block out it out of your mind then good for you but it's not as easy for everyone =[
Sadly, this article made me really glad I don't live in Korea. I am already staunchly against America's terrible superficial culture, but this sounds like it's a hundred times worse. At least in America, nearly everyone can overcome any physical issues pretty easily. You don't need to be "pretty" to be a CEO...in fact, most aren't. You can avoid the "Hollywood Effect" in America...but it sounds like in Korea that's all there is. Kind of sad actually.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
Too bad we cant have the best of both worlds? =(
i am asian but grew up in america so i don't know much about asian culture. my thinking is that ppl in asian countries tend to be a lot more openly critical of flaws, be it academic performance or physical looks. this will then lead to the emulation of famous and popular people and styles.
i see benefits and problems from this way of thinking. in general, having people give constructive criticism is good- then you can construct yourself better, study harder, dress better, etc. i'm not comfortable though with the way in which this criticism is given.
i also think this leads to a slippery slop where you are willing to change everything about yourself to be better. two problems i see in this...the idea leads to a very negative mindset where you used to be shit and if you do "better" you can become less shit and more awesome. this totally laughs at the whole "to thine own self be true" stuff westerners have going on. secondly, there is no set threshold of where you should stop changing yourself at the cost of your mental and emotional and physical health. and as i saw from the video, some people just go past that threshold and that leads to self destruction (NOOO GEODUUUDE!!).
I think the problem that a lot of people have with the criticism of people based on clothing and looks is that, ultimately, it's completely meaningless. Is wearing Apple Bottom Jeans and a Louie Vatoun purse going to help you cure cancer, or feed the hungry and poor? No, it's not. When you are laying on your death bed, are you going to be remembering all the high priced shopping trips you took to buy designer clothes? Highly unlikely. When you're holding your first born, are you going to whisper sweet nothings in their ear about how you'll make sure they always have an American Eagle credit card and the newest Air Jordans? I would hope not.
That is the primary issue with this sort of mentality. It places ridiculous premium on what amounts to completely meaningless measures of "good". That's why to many people it's disgusting and abhorrent, because it shows a complete and total lack of perspective at a cultural level.
Education is different. I absolutely agree that education in America needs to be much more rigorous and filled with a bit of pressure, though I think there always has to be options for students with alternative learning methods (because we've learned enough over the years to know that not everyone learns the same)...and no I don't mean special ed.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I know almost all American high school education is a complete joke, but Korea seems to be too extreme. ''To the level of being able to recite all the major newspaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century''? This is just mindless memorization, no understanding whatsoever, anybody can do this if you just put in the effort. I believe time would be better spent doing something else. This just seems so pointless. I remember at the age of twelve having to do the same thing with continents around the world. I would wake up 10 minutes earlier, think of some kind of rhythm and then sing the 30+ or so names I had to learn in my head whilst driving to school on my bike. I would keep this rhythm in my memory untill the test finished then I would almost instantly completely forget everything haha. Ah, the memories of elementary school
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I know almost all American high school education is a complete joke, but Korea seems to be too extreme. ''To the level of being able to recite all the major newspaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century''? This is just mindless memorization, no understanding whatsoever, anybody can do this if you just put in the effort. I believe time would be better spent doing something else. I remember at the age of twelve having to do the same thing with continents around the world. I would wake up 10 minutes earlier, think of some kind of rhythm and then sing the 30+ or so names I had to learn in my head whilst driving to school on my bike. I would keep this rhythm in my memory untill the test finished then I would almost instantly completely forget everything haha. Ah, the memories of elementary school
Well the implication being that they study the events associated with the headlines, and retain enough of it to have a general understanding of the flow of modern history haha I agree that most of it is mindless memorization, but for some subjects like biology, that's what you end up doing most of the time in the 'free-er minded' countries anyway
True. Maybe it's just me but I never really liked the process of just remembering stuff. I get extremely bored. It's probably why my favorite subjects are Physics and Math.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
Germany has higher medal count per participation than SK and how often do you hear about it? Check Iran, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria etc. All of them are even better or at least not worse than SK (which does super respectable too and is probably top 10, too lazy to calculate) Outside of China every Asian country is just not exceptional on that list. So I'm not sure how your education system is so much greater than 'western' while in reality koreans dont even outperform their western competition at their supposedly best discipline.
I think SK education is terrific, highschool is way above USA. But considering everything it is still very weak compared to top European countries. School isn't just sciences.
On March 20 2012 04:34 Skeggaba wrote: 6´3 thin but blonde hair and blue eyes - how will i do?
Aslong as you take good care of your skin, dress properly and dont have a haircut looking like u just came from the wild, then ur all good like everybody else
I notice from that wiki page someone linked that the UK is shadowing SK by a place or two in reading and science (DQed from maths, unsure why). I can tell you that our schooling system is ultra relaxed. I was shocked when I heard about Hagwons and the pressure SK students are put under, and the truth is the returns are practically non existent.
These kids need room to breathe and grow into happy, healthy and productive adults. SK seems to want to drive them into the ground or turn them into robots. This has to be a big factor in SK's crazy suicide rate.
USA public education sucks, but a part of that is because we tend to pander to the lowest common denominator. Admirable, in a way, to make sure that not everyone gets left behind, but it sometimes drags down our brightest along with it -- which is terrible and harmful for some (I know at least two cases in which students were not placed into the proper level and had to suffer for it in the future), but in actuality, seems to work fairly okay in practice most of the times. I don't think our top 5%, for instance, lags behind the top 5% in any other country, despite our poor public education, though to be fair, some of the top 5% also attended private schools over public schools, but I still don't think the majority did. For instance, while our math classes in HS are laughable at times, it does give those who are inclined towards math much more time to pursue math at a higher level by themselves, which they're often happier doing anyways outside of a classroom setting.
Most of the facts you learn in HS is lost anyways once you go to college and specialize.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Awesome read 5/5. Honestly this is why I'm sort of scared to go to Korea. I don't know how well I would take any kind of criticism involving my looks. I have a friend who is studying here from Korea and he said that guys in Korea wouldn't think I was fat but apparently the women would tell me to lose more weight which is nearly impossible due to my curves -_-
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotinegg said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotineggs said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
I get it more when you explain it :D. So it's not taught well for a first reason and people don't really care / never practice it for a second reason? I mean it's pretty hard for me to get it because well as the post of that "guy said" 11 years of teaching you should be able to speak it :S. Besides, the OP seem pretty good at at least writing english. I'm just wondering if it's just a difference between written english and speaking it?
nch guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
French has strong latin roots and english strong saxon roots. Basically two different language. We use the same letters but the way it is spoken is really different. French is closer to spanish / italian and english is closer to german for example. Some words are close due to the proximity though. However I shouldn't have made that comparison it doesn't really makes sense.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
of course its child play... because theyre children. lmao. and what exactly is ethics...
i personally feel that here in australia, i needed some motivation and a little push, which is what i didnt get. in high school no-one(as in teachers) would help or encourage me, which is kind of what i feel teachers should do, so i just spent most of the time playing games and messing around, so in that sense, i think a little more encouragement by the "establishment" would be nice, but clearly not to this level. if kids want to pursue knowledge then there should always be that option, but at the same time music theory? ethics? all subjects of science? geography? alot of this isn't needed. maybe catering the curriculum towards the idea that people are actually unique and individuals, and giving them the option to pursue what they want, as clearly korea has alot of options in high school, would be the better way to go imo.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
#canada ftw wins at culture
i have to disagree with that though. I live in Montreal too, and I feel like people are trying to LOOK like they don't care about their looks. Everybody is walking around with "vintage" looking clothes and "out of bed" unkept hair that actually took half hour to do. Everybody has those vintage boots. The illusion is usually broken with the over expensive Canada Goose coats
You know the first course Aristotle used to teach? Logic. The idea is to build a foundation for individuals to know how to learn on their own, with their own interests, and own techniques. Rote memorization teaches you nothing. I find almost anywhere you go pedagogy has turned into a bureaucratic, socialized, robotic collectivization, that treats everyone as a member of the borg, and inspires or draws out no creativity, no individuality, no entreprenuership, no actual learning. A real shame.
If you read the average correspondance by an American in the mid to late 1800s...you will be astonished by the vastness of their vocabulary compared to today. Not everyone needs to be a scientist, not everyone needs to be a mathematician, and indeed a lot of people are simply not born to be. Having everyone shuttle on down the proverbial production line is heinously destructive to society and progress.
As far as the superficiality of SK....what do you expect when Asian culture has no understanding, or love of individuality?
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
#canada ftw wins at culture
i have to disagree with that though. I live in Montreal too, and I feel like people are trying to LOOK like they don't care about their looks. Everybody is walking around with "vintage" looking clothes and "out of bed" unkept hair that actually took half hour to do. Everybody has those vintage boots. The illusion is usually broken with the over expensive Canada Goose coats
I thought that was just a French-thing. Har-Har :p
Depending on where you live here in the States, the average attire will either be practical wear (aka rural folk), or your urbanized hipster look (then you have your sub-cultures within like say..Ghetto, or Sub-urbs). I find it all to be rather comical. I wear what is comfortable and with me being in Florida, that usually consists of flip flops, boardshort, and a columbia button up long-sleeve polyester shirt. I'd feel so out of place in SK lol. I guess I'm a better fit with Hawaiins. Maholo!
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotinegg said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
the biggest problem for Koreans and Japanese is to get away from their syllabee thinking. Both languages and their writing are build around syllabee's. This leads to the most common problem both countries have. They cant pronounce english because the letters in the english language do not fall into the pronounciation pattern they are used to.
This leads to monsters like i-su ku-ri-mu ( ice cream), this is still an easy example how both of these languages try to force english into their own style of writing and speaking leading to horrible pronounciation.
Another big difference is the grammar. Korean and Japanese are suffix based languages and english is not, so while Koreans and Japanese would have an easy time learning turkish grammar ( same language family ) they have it a lot lot harder to learn germanic languages like english that are based on prepositions.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
Upon second thought it might be better to just talk in private
I don't have any sources for the OP because I wrote it from my experiences of living in Korea from 1st to 9th grade and spending my vacations at home in 분당/서울, where I still live.
Edit: Goddamn even in the no makeup 2ne1 pic minzy is still totally my girl. Most of the korean celebrity pics ive seen leave me pretty cold but that girl is the love of my life.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
On March 20 2012 07:52 See.Blue wrote: Fascinating thread, thanks!
Edit: Goddamn even in the no makeup 2ne1 pic minzy is still totally my girl. Most of the korean celebrity pics ive seen leave me pretty cold but that girl is the love of my life.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
They're still separate languages ...
The only thing you can say is that since they're both Indo-European languages, it may be easier for a French speaker to learn English than it is for a Korean speaker to learn English, but a lot of it depends on the individual person's language learning ability and the amount of time and effort they put into the language. I mean, it's definitely true that when you swap language families, you have to construct a whole new framework in which to work and process the grammar, but that's just basic understanding, and it comes really fast if you work at it. If you really, really want to learn a language, you can and you will. Take Lyn, for instance (Korean War3/SC2 hybrid player atm living in China); he's pretty much fluent in English and is learning Chinese (which he's getting pretty damn good at), but that's because he sets apart a bit of his day to actually learn Chinese. ReMinD (also a hybrid War3/SC2 player living in China atm) is pretty much the same way, with his Chinese being a little better than Lyn's from what I can remember. All in all, it pretty much comes down to how much work you're willing to put in. Most Koreans (especially those who came from the BW scene rather than the more international War3 scene) didn't really see the benefit in it, though that's changing now of course, since SC2 is also way more international.
Just my two cents. As a native English speaker, I actually think French and Spanish are incredibly difficult to learn, Russian easier, and Korean slightly easier than Russian from what I can tell so far. Most native English speakers would rate those languages the other way around, of course, but again, it's on a case-by-case basis.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
Great job on the thread. Girls have it pretty rough while men have their work cut out for them. Just like in every country or culture they all have different social standards or ways that they try to improve their appearance.
Great blog rotinegg! I think the biggest problem is that there is a big western schema of what plastic surgery is: a puffy-faced, squinty-eyed, plastic looking thing -- like something you would see on the Real Housewives of Orange County (or any show alike). But from what I've seen of Korean plastic surgery, it's not (overall) as dramatic. My ex-girlfriend used to tell me of all the little things her friends (and even her brother) got done and most commonly it was the double eye-lid one which was more for health reasons than aesthetics.
I'm wondering though, does the western "plastification" image that is associated with plastic surgery resonate with Koreans? In other words, if a Korean were to compare a Korean celebrity who has had plastic surgery with someone, lets say Hiedi Montag, would they lump it all in as just plastic surgery, or would they differentiate?
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
Upon second thought it might be better to just talk in private
I don't have any sources for the OP because I wrote it from my experiences of living in Korea from 1st to 9th grade and spending my vacations at home in 분당/서울, where I still live.
I don't completely disagree with you but I do feel like you exaggerated it a little bit. I don't deny the fact that Koreans do tend to put more time on their looks and how they dress etc. This isn't really a bad thing but I do feel like you presented in a negative way. Koreans are also obsessed with cleanness. In fact you are more likely to be a target of being dirty than ugly.
As for racism I personally think it's more misunderstanding than anything else and I don't think it's as bad as people say it is if you consider the fact that Korea is probably the most homogenous society the world. You seem to have a different view but it's understandable since your experience in Korea were mostly in your childhood years. Well kids can be immature and they don't tell the whole story. Like at my work place, people are very careful of what they say and try not to offend anyone.
I read your PM and I don't think you had any bad intention so I apologize if I went too aggressive with the issue. You definitely did made some good point minus the over exaggeration but I guess I'm little bit tired of the left wing biased media here that tends blow everything out of proportion.
As others have said, please don't take the word of the OP as 100% truth about Korean culture. Especially not the part where koreans are condescending on people who don't have brand name stuff because that means they're 'poor' and that there is rampant discrimination against poor people (all that just isn't actually true, and it's unacceptable to say it's true of most people).
Some of the OP is well-written and relevant - if you're going to take anything away, take that Korean culture is one where looks are important, and where aesthetics are valued. It's also a culture on the cusp of transition.
But please don't leave this thread accepting the rest of the OP as fact. It isn't, and it's a disservice to Korean culture to say so. It's simply his opinion.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
They're still separate languages ...
The only thing you can say is that since they're both Indo-European languages, it may be easier for a French speaker to learn English than it is for a Korean speaker to learn English, but a lot of it depends on the individual person's language learning ability and the amount of time and effort they put into the language. I mean, it's definitely true that when you swap language families, you have to construct a whole new framework in which to work and process the grammar, but that's just basic understanding, and it comes really fast if you work at it. If you really, really want to learn a language, you can and you will. Take Lyn, for instance (Korean War3/SC2 hybrid player atm living in China); he's pretty much fluent in English and is learning Chinese (which he's getting pretty damn good at), but that's because he sets apart a bit of his day to actually learn Chinese. ReMinD (also a hybrid War3/SC2 player living in China atm) is pretty much the same way, with his Chinese being a little better than Lyn's from what I can remember. All in all, it pretty much comes down to how much work you're willing to put in. Most Koreans (especially those who came from the BW scene rather than the more international War3 scene) didn't really see the benefit in it, though that's changing now of course, since SC2 is also way more international.
Just my two cents. As a native English speaker, I actually think French and Spanish are incredibly difficult to learn, Russian easier, and Korean slightly easier than Russian from what I can tell so far. Most native English speakers would rate those languages the other way around, of course, but again, it's on a case-by-case basis.
Ridiculous. I did 2 years of 1 hour a week of french over 15 years ago and can pretty much read any article on Le Monde. If Korean to English was as easy all these korean students studying it for 11 years would be fluent, and they clearly aren't.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
Upon second thought it might be better to just talk in private
I don't have any sources for the OP because I wrote it from my experiences of living in Korea from 1st to 9th grade and spending my vacations at home in 분당/서울, where I still live.
I don't completely disagree with you but I do feel like you exaggerated it a little bit. I don't deny the fact that Koreans do tend to put more time on their looks and how they dress etc. This isn't really a bad thing but I do feel like you presented in a negative way. Koreans are also obsessed with cleanness. In fact you are more likely to be a target of being dirty than ugly.
As for racism I personally think it's more misunderstanding than anything else and I don't think it's as bad as people say it is if you consider the fact that Korea is probably the most homogenous society the world. You seem to have a different view but it's understandable since your experience in Korea were mostly in your childhood years. Well kids can be immature and they don't tell the whole story. Like at my work place, people are very careful of what they say and try not to offend anyone.
I read your PM and I don't think you had any bad intention so I apologize if I went too aggressive with the issue. You definitely did made some good point minus the over exaggeration but I guess I'm little bit tired of the left wing biased media here that tends blow everything out of proportion.
I see, it's great to see some insight into the professional world of Korea, since I never got to experience that :p Like you said my experiences are limited to my school years, and after high school, pretty much all the time I spent was hanging out with friends during vacation. I guess I saw life in Korea through a spectacle since most of the time I spent with my friends was during the night hunting and clubbing. I don't doubt that professional life and even life during the day is slightly different from my limited experiences I saw your PM and good point about racism in the US against Asians; I guess I kind of got used to it and brushed it off after spending two years of high school in rural Ohio, where my name was either Ching Chong or Wa-tah! or Chinese Chicken depending on the day of the week. I should clarify to all the foreigners thinking we are all racist after reading my post: Koreans aren't particularly more racist than people of other cultures, we're just a lot more honest/less PC around friends. Thanks for your input, I feel bad for casting our society in a bad light now :\
I can appreciate cultures where people still take the time to take care of their looks... It's a sharp contrast with the netherlands where it sometimes almost looks like people would be fine with wearing garbage bags...
I do think its sad however that a lot of these things seem to be "mandatory" in SKR (as I interpreted it at least). Kinda sucks that girls feel they need to chop up their face (or whatever) in order to feel competent w/e.
Now on to what I wanted to ask you: what is the percentage of korean youngsters that actually go along with these trends? Are we talking 80 / 90% here or is mostly the somewhat higher classes of society where people have the money to spend on plastic surgeries and an abundance of hair products and skin cream?
On March 20 2012 05:18 Bellygareth wrote: Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
On March 20 2012 05:48 Bellygareth wrote: I get it more when you explain it :D. So it's not taught well for a first reason and people don't really care / never practice it for a second reason? I mean it's pretty hard for me to get it because well as the post of that "guy said" 11 years of teaching you should be able to speak it :S. Besides, the OP seem pretty good at at least writing english. I'm just wondering if it's just a difference between written english and speaking it?
Wasn't there an interview with one progamer where they asked why his English wasn't so good and he said he skipped class to practice Starcraft?
There are good teachers out there but it's not an effective system.
I disagree that there are plenty of Koreans that practically use English within Korea. Most of us forget what we learn from class as soon as we're out the door - same goes for Korea. They have a billion other activities and studies they have after regular school.
English isn't their first language and they're going to use Korean as much as they can especially if they're trying to make fun of the teacher or just mess around with other students.
Most Koreans are able to read and write thanks to memory and practice but speaking is another story. Up until recently, speaking was never a priority for major important tests and even job interviews. You could get away with a bare minimum but they've started to take notice and are making speaking a priority.
On March 20 2012 05:18 Bellygareth wrote: Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
On March 20 2012 05:48 Bellygareth wrote: I get it more when you explain it :D. So it's not taught well for a first reason and people don't really care / never practice it for a second reason? I mean it's pretty hard for me to get it because well as the post of that "guy said" 11 years of teaching you should be able to speak it :S. Besides, the OP seem pretty good at at least writing english. I'm just wondering if it's just a difference between written english and speaking it?
Wasn't there an interview with one progamer where they asked why his English wasn't so good and he said he skipped class to practice Starcraft?
There are good teachers out there but it's not an effective system.
I disagree that there are plenty of Koreans that practically use English within Korea. Most of us forget what we learn from class as soon as we're out the door - same goes for Korea. They have a billion other activities and studies they have after regular school.
English isn't their first language and they're going to use Korean as much as they can especially if they're trying to make fun of the teacher or just mess around with other students.
Most Koreans are able to read and write thanks to memory and practice but speaking is another story. Up until recently, speaking was never a priority for major important tests and even job interviews. You could get away with a bare minimum but they've started to take notice and are making speaking a priority.
all the korean internationals at princeton are super good at english but, to our team's disappointment, have never played games.
i'm assuming that as a student in korea you either study (english) or play starcraft, hard to do both.
About school system: I only know the French/western Europe/USA/Taiwan ones (=I've experienced them/worked with students etc). Seeing that in Taiwan kids get sent to prep school as soon as they can walk, I'm going to assume that the pressure is kind of the same as in SK (not *exactly* the same). And even though it can sound like intensive hours would lead to smart/educated students, it really is not true. The general impression (exceptions do exist) I have from Asian students is that they are used to spending countless hours in the lab/office/classroom, but at the end of the day, when it comes to creating something (project/scientific paper/mathematical proof), they are really not that good (not better than your average lazy French student who will spend 10hrs/week on campus.
I am NOT saying some are smarter, just saying that increasing the number of hours spent by kids studying is *not* guaranteed, at all, to lead to better/smarter students.
Personally, I feel like the pressure they have here to stay forever in the lab (even if they stay on facebook/msn) is almost counterproductive. I think it hurts more than it brings improvements.
It would be interesting to see a large scale study on the opinion of students having experienced SK+Western education/culture, about their education/social pressure on looks etc. The one thing I would really like to know is: does it make most people happy, to care so much about looks/fancy university name on the degree ? Would they prefer something different? If so, what is preventing them from going there?
On March 19 2012 06:40 LunarC wrote: The alternative route to Korean-defined success for men would be to study your ass off, get into a first-rate college, land a high-paying job, and rake in the dough. Then you can do whatever you want and people will flock help you do it.
And as a woman?
Marry one of the guys that took the above route.
Seriously seems to be the life goal of a sad number of people -_-
Unfortunately, it seems SK will not appreciate my hours of looking for good deals at the mall. So much for that Armani Exchange jacket I got for $23 that I thought was super awesome. Their loss.
I always knew there was a culture of conformity but this blog was really eye-opening. I mean people always mention it without fail when you are talking about Korea but it really helps to have someone who knows hammer out all the details for you. Seriously jaw dropping stuff here.
I agree, good general article but don't take it word for word. Living in Korea for awhile makes it seem really different, and I can imagine how different it is for an elementary to middle school student and an adult living here.
I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Korean and I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
This was a very entertaining blog! I've noticed the little things like obsession with white skin in New Zealand among the korean population. The funniest i find is the insistence of most Korean males to carry a handbag and to wear it just like a woman. We pretty much all have a good laugh about it but they seem to think it looks awesome. Oh and also the obsession with skinny jeans and having it tucked into these large shoes with a huge front flap.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I'm not sure whether you are comparing apples to apples. With the exception of maths (which I agree with you), the rest is just about rote learning, which is obviously prevalent in Asia, not just Korea. I cant speak for the American education system but the UK one in which I grew up in taught us something more valuable--to question and reason.
You almost make its sound like rote learning is good! Its actually frighteningly bad and doesn't prepare kids for anything other than to pass exams.
I can't believe I almost missed this. So interesting to read about the cultural differences between countries and having "insider information" on the crowd mentality of places.
Edit: There is also no denying that because of their hard work they moved from poorest country in the World after the cease-fire w North Korea to first world country in less than 60 years.
My thoughts: It's truly sad that people care this much about their appearance. I understand that some amount of caring needs to be had, but to the point were people are ridiculed for expressing themselves in a different way is upsetting. Personally, I have never given a shit about what other people think of how I look. I go out in what I like, which is still surprisingly uncommon here in the US, and ignore the shit people give me for it.
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change.
Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change.
Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change.
Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change.
Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below
I often wonder if you married someone that has had extensive plastic surgery, but you are not aware of it, and you have kids...you'd first be shocked and probably feel a bit short changed. I think everyone that has had plastic surgery needs to disclose it by law!
It would almost make me think "oh look, koreans so stupid" if I haven't realised that most people in the West are probably in the same ballpark, when it comes to this, or a similar kind of idiocy.
I have a very simple way to get myself isolated from all this bullshit: I look like crap. I wear the cheap staff that is comfortable (most t-shirts from "worker's accesories" and some pants from an outdoor sale) and it sometimes has a hole here and there, I haven't seen a hairdresser in over 10 years (since my mother lost the power to tell we what to do), I don't shave, just cut it here and tehre with scissors when it starts to be physically annoying.
This way, I very easily get rid of or the superficial monkeys that I wouldn't like to talk to anyway and get to be with people who like me for who I am, not for how I look.
very interesting to compare to japan/japanese culture. the overall themes are the same although there are differences too, especially the popularity of plastic surgery. I've no doubt it's big with celebrities but it's not as popular for regular people as it sounds it is over there.
There are definitely Japanese who look at the world the way you describe in the OP, but they would most definitely not be the majority or anywhere close. Is this describing a particular segment of korean culture, or does it more or less reflect the mainstream? I'm curious.
Good blog!! One thing I notice while I was in the same college with more than 300 Koreans is Korean females are ugly compare to males. I mean Korean males actually look quite handsome while girls its all make up and surgery, they are short too. Average Korean girls are like 160cm~?
Its also true that Koreans dress so much a like but have quite a good taste in fashion I'd say. I can immediately notice an Korean out of a crowd here in China very easily.
On March 19 2012 10:44 madcow305 wrote: This type of superficiality runs through China and Japan as well.
Among some of the more amusing/intruging side-effects of having a culture like this are:
1. The ladies in service industries are usually more attractive than their western counterparts. Take airline stewardesses, for example. Airlines in Korea and China, and I think Japan, still discriminate based on attractiveness. So, the average flight attendant on Korea Air is probably younger, slimmer, and prettier than someone from British Airways or United Airlines.
2. I can't comment on Korea or Japan, but there are a lot of questionably effective surgical procedures in China. For example, my mother is a middle-aged woman with flabby arms. In particular, there are pockets of fat just below her armpits. During an extended trip to China, she underwent surgery to remove these fat pockets. The procedure was either botched, or was a scam to begin with. My mom spent several weeks healing the incisions made under her arms, but after recovery they looked and felt exactly the same as before.
3. As the OP has stated, there is only one type of acceptable body for women, and that is skinny. Curves are not attractive in Korea/China/Japan. If Kim Kardashian went over there, she wouldn't be called hot, she'd be called fat. Decently large breasts, while nice, must not come at the expense of slim figure. Add to this the fact that asian women usually have smaller breasts in comparison to westerners, and the conclusion is that the ideal body for a woman in Korea/China/Japan is something similar to what one would see from girls in high school, or even middle school. I wonder if this perception of beauty is one of the reasons why attraction to teenage girls seems more prevalent over there.
...Western cultures are just as superficial. At least American. I can't comment on Europe as I haven't lived there.
To your examples:
1. Only reason the US has ugly attendants is labor unions and laws against discrimination. Back in the day, airline stewardesses in the USA were known for being cuties. Forget about even having male stewards. It's labor laws that put an end to that, not American culture. There's still plenty of places that try to hire hot receptionists/hostesses etc. Take a look at nightclubs, lounges, gyms etc. It's absurd to claim Asian societies hire based on attractiveness and Western ones don't.
2. You're talking about liposuction... And liposuction in any country results in more fat cells being created to make up for the previous removal. Therefore if someone gets lipo and resumes the same diet and lifestyle they did before surgery, the fat's going to come back with a vengeance. This has nothing to do with Asia or China and everything to do with biology.
3. I don't know what you mean by a slim figure, but I know for a fact a girl with Kim Kardashian's body in China could make a good living with it if she was so inclined.
I spent way too much time reading through this thread and the replies, but thanks for the insight and discussion Quite an interesting insight into Korean culture
On March 20 2012 19:45 Mantraz wrote: Makes me feel a little bad for laughing at PuMa for saying he'd spend some of the 50000$ he won from NASL for skincare/lotions.
I'm glad i can go out and wear a bitmore casual clothing/not look my finest without being harassed.
I thought he was joking about that. But now I don't know.. lol
On March 20 2012 18:26 opisska wrote: It would almost make me think "oh look, koreans so stupid" if I haven't realised that most people in the West are probably in the same ballpark, when it comes to this, or a similar kind of idiocy.
I have a very simple way to get myself isolated from all this bullshit: I look like crap. I wear the cheap staff that is comfortable (most t-shirts from "worker's accesories" and some pants from an outdoor sale) and it sometimes has a hole here and there, I haven't seen a hairdresser in over 10 years (since my mother lost the power to tell we what to do), I don't shave, just cut it here and tehre with scissors when it starts to be physically annoying.
This way, I very easily get rid of or the superficial monkeys that I wouldn't like to talk to anyway and get to be with people who like me for who I am, not for how I look.
Hahaha, wow, that is just silly. Looking good and being presentable is a part of growing up, you are in serious need of some growing up, nobody thinks you're cool because you're saying fuck you to society. Dressing and looking like shit doesn't make you one of the cool guys, it just makes you look like shit. I bet you're one of those people who thinks guys who dress well are gay because you wish you could dress like them, but are too afraid to.
On March 20 2012 20:38 Wildmoon wrote: Why Korean care about their appearance that much?
victims of marketing; people are dumb
It's actually what happens when men and women start competing in the same arena. If all the men in Sweden, for instance, started competing with each other like they do in Korea, the same shit would happen here. Fortunately, only the women act like that here, hopefully, even that'll change.
Wow ok, this was really a good and humerous read. I actually was never too impressed by Korean girls, as when I was studying in my country (Malaysia) I met a few Korean girls in college, but they never struck me as particularly prettier than the average South-East Asian girl. Maybe because they were overseas so they let their hair down?
On March 20 2012 19:45 Caphe wrote: Good blog!! One thing I notice while I was in the same college with more than 300 Koreans is Korean females are ugly compare to males. I mean Korean males actually look quite handsome while girls its all make up and surgery, they are short too. Average Korean girls are like 160cm~?
Its also true that Koreans dress so much a like but have quite a good taste in fashion I'd say. I can immediately notice an Korean out of a crowd here in China very easily.
i dont' think thats quite right, i have to say that when i was in shanghai i felt they dressed very well, and i did feel shanghai was kind of similar to seoul.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ercster wrote: I understand that some amount of caring needs to be had, but to the point were people are ridiculed for expressing themselves in a different way is upsetting. Personally, I have never given a shit about what other people think of how I look. I go out in what I like, which is still surprisingly uncommon here in the US, and ignore the shit people give me for it.
Ridiculed? That's a little extreme.
Lets start with society. Koreans normally don't approach other Korean strangers on the street unless they're begging (legitimately or fake), trying to sell something, or promote themselves like a politician.
In Korean clubs, it's not uncommon to see people dressed down. Obviously the higher end clubs might restrict you if you're wearing sandals with your toes out but I think most of us here would at least have sneakers on and avoid getting bloody/alcohol -soaked toes.
It's really crowded in the capitol.
Now in the scenario you're a foreigner (most of the readers here) - in normal everyday life, nothing's going to happen. There are too many people going from point a to point b. Maybe if someone's people watching they'll notice you're a foreigner because you stand out. If you look Asian, you'll blend in. Most of their focus will be the fact that you're a foreigner and then they'll go back to their own business.
If you don't look good, most likely their attention will be on their phones anyway.
People will judge you though but this is on the same level that would happen anywhere else and this is if they even bother to notice you.
The most likely case you'll be ridiculed is if you're attending a high end event like an upscale club where you'll expect high snobby people or a job interview where you should be dressed up in the first place.
Now if you're out in the smaller cities where foreigners are rare and uncommon, people will notice you but be positively curious because they rarely see foreigners. Most of what will be going through their heads is surprise and less so much about how you dress or how you look.
Girls over there dress up to compete with each other - normal for girls anywhere else.
Guys are aware girls spend a lot of time looking good and know that they won't be considered if they don't put in any effort in themselves.
A lot of Koreans are introduced to each other whether through church, family, or friends. They want to make their friends/family look good and they have to be their best for whoever they're going to end up meeting.
Thank you for your blog. It was a very interesting read. When thinking about the positive and negative sides of both ideal types: individualism and collectivism I think i really prefer the individualism with all the downsides it has over the situation you described about korea.
Hey, Can anyone link me some online stores that sell typical Korean clothes that everyday people wear? Doesn't matter if the site is all in Korean, or not. Would like to get a better idea of what kind of stuff people have in their wardrobes. Thanks!
On March 20 2012 23:54 Hier wrote: Hey, Can anyone link me some online stores that sell typical Korean clothes that everyday people wear? Doesn't matter if the site is all in Korean, or not. Would like to get a better idea of what kind of stuff people have in their wardrobes. Thanks!
I just realized this probably explains why NesTea wears skinny jeans sometimes, lol.
I'm curious, what kind of reception do girls-who-look/dress-like-guys get (i.e. more androgynous girls with shorter hair)? I see "pretty boys" all the time in KPop bands, so I'm curious about the opposite phenomenon.
On March 20 2012 23:43 kakaman wrote: Holy cow, how much plastic surgery did Stork do? I always thought he was natural
He is natural, he just lost weight, and took care of his skin and hair
I dunno man, his skin looked really bad before, I can't imagine it getting better with no scarring without some laser and/or plastic work.
I see what you mean. Yea he probably got laser treatments from a dermatologist; it just slipped my mind that that would be considered surgery as well to some. If you include laser treatment in the list of plastic surgeries, you would be hard pressed to find somebody in their twenties who is 100% natural in Seoul, as laser treatment is very common and all my guy friends with bad skin get it (I got it too).
On March 21 2012 00:48 babylon wrote: I just realized this probably explains why NesTea wears skinny jeans sometimes, lol.
I'm curious, what kind of reception do girls-who-look/dress-like-guys get (i.e. more androgynous girls with shorter hair)? I see "pretty boys" all the time in KPop bands, so I'm curious about the opposite phenomenon.
Personally I don't see a lot of the opposite, but that may be just me. Girls are supposed to look pretty as far as I know.
On March 20 2012 21:52 targ wrote: Wow ok, this was really a good and humerous read. I actually was never too impressed by Korean girls, as when I was studying in my country (Malaysia) I met a few Korean girls in college, but they never struck me as particularly prettier than the average South-East Asian girl. Maybe because they were overseas so they let their hair down?
A lot of Koreans really do let their guard down overseas because there is less pressure from their surroundings to dress well. I went to a US school with lots of Koreans and boy the girls there... I have no words
Although I don't have much of my own input at this time, very interesting read being that I'm an adopted South Korean living in America. Gave me a bit more insight on the culture that I've missed out on.
Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
How is sex(making love) treated over there? In the USA we are pretty open to discussing it and partaking in it at a young age.
It's getting more and more open, but it's still a somewhat taboo subject, so while one-night-stands are rampant in the night life, you won't talk about that stuff in broad daylight with somebody you don't know very well. There's a term called 섹드립 which roughly translates into sexual innuendo, and it's a HUGE deal when celebrities make even the slightest references to sex on TV. All parents definitely frown upon sex before marriage, but the disconnect between parents and children is so large that many do it in college anyway. At a young age, though, like pre-college, not very common at all since most students live in their parents' house and study 24/7.
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality. If you had an interest in visiting Korea, I strongly recommend you do, as you will experience none of what was mentioned in the OP, and I promise you will have a great time.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at you at a subconscious, if not conscious, level.
Amazing post. I am planning a visit to Seoul sometime soon. I didn't know all of this mattered so much, but I felt more and more relaxed the more I read the OP. I'm 6'0, I'm Bosnian so my skin is a BIT dark (nor dark dark, just slightly tanned), and I think I have a good ratio going on.. Don't actually think this will matter though since I am not Korean, and I'm sure they don't judge foreigners on the same looks scale as they do themselves.
Edit:
Quick question, I just saw the post above me and it made me think. You said that non-Asian foreigners are treated with respect and hospitality, would it be a plus if that foreigner had some of the features you mentioned or do they not really care?
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
I hadn't thought of that, but you make a good point. And also, what is the music in night clubs like?
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
More or less. We don't listen to it because we think it's good music, it's just something to listen to, white noise that fills the air. People who are into music will listen to other stuff, but the large majority of the youngsters will listen to Kpop by default.
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
I hadn't thought of that, but you make a good point. And also, what is the music in night clubs like?
Night clubs, where you grab a room or table and they shuffle in girls all night long, I have never been to - ask rekrul instead. BTW, these are regular girls being shuffled in, not strippers, so it's not like a strip club. The waiters at nightclubs just facilitate the meeting of opposite genders, so to speak Regular clubs are where I go. Clubs are divided into two types: Hiphop and Electro-house. Clubs north of the river (강북) in the 홍대 area will play Hiphop, where American rap songs will play, and clubs south of the river (강남) in the 강남 청담 압구정 areas will play electro-house all night long. The crowds vary with the music as well. I personally enjoy the electro-house clubs more as the guy:girl ratio is good, people are generally richer and better dressed (and better looking/taller) than their counterparts in hiphop clubs, and the clubs just feel more upscale in general.
On March 21 2012 01:07 GreEny K wrote: Quick question, I just saw the post above me and it made me think. You said that non-Asian foreigners are treated with respect and hospitality, would it be a plus if that foreigner had some of the features you mentioned or do they not really care?
Well you might get extra respect and they might look at you in awe if you had milky white skin, blonde hair, blue eyes and were 6'2" or above with a small head, but tbh ppl don't really care, just the fact that you are a foreigner will make them treat you with respect.
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
More or less. We don't listen to it because we think it's good music, it's just something to listen to, white noise that fills the air. People who are into music will listen to other stuff, but the large majority of the youngsters will listen to Kpop by default.
On March 21 2012 00:58 Flaccid wrote: Really interesting post - thanks for taking the time to write that up for those of us on the outside looking in.
In western culture, it's typical that a person can be 'cool' by conforming to the social norms but can also be 'cool' in his own respect by being an outsider - hence the emergence of counter-culture to combat the social norms. Can you comment more on how this works in Korea? Is everything really such a homogeneous, vanilla soup? Is there good art in Korea? And where does it come from? Clearly not these North Face wearing dudes.
There is an obvious overcompensation towards materialism and superficiality whenever we see a country industrialize at a rapid, unnatural pace. Still, with that in mind, I have to be honest that your post - while very interesting - certainly does not make me want to visit Korea any time soon. Superficiality exists in all cultures, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally seek it out.
Thanks again for the good read!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks I am going to assume you are a foreigner, so first, I want to say these are just the most extreme, superficial elements portrayed in the OP, and there is so much more to the culture that compensates for it. Also, none of this applies to you if you are a non-Asian foreigner; you will be exempt from all these rules and people will treat you with respect and hospitality.
As for your question about counter-culture, I'm sure it exists and there are a lot of indy band/underground hiphop/rap movements, but I am not all too familiar with the scene so I wouldn't be able to say much about it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us. I can say with confidence, though, Korea really is much more homogeneous than places elsewhere from my personal experience, with the pressure to fit in constantly wrenching at your subconscious.
Cripes, poor Asian foreigners. Maybe if I dress dumpy enough ...
I do like Korean indie music way more than KPop though. (I'm pretty sure Epik High started as an indie band too.) :B
Though speaking of music, is KPop really that insanely popular over there as a musical genre? Most of the Korean pros here stream with KPop, and it makes my ears bleed. Guess I'm asking for the most popular genres, I suppose.
I hadn't thought of that, but you make a good point. And also, what is the music in night clubs like?
Night clubs, where you grab a room or table and they shuffle in girls all night long, I have never been to - ask rekrul instead. Regular clubs are where I go. Clubs are divided into two types: Hiphop and Electro-house. Clubs north of the river (강북) in the 홍대 area will play Hiphop, where American rap songs will play, and clubs south of the river (강남) in the 강남 청담 압구정 areas will play electro-house all night long. The crowds vary with the music as well. I personally enjoy the electro-house clubs more as the guy:girl ratio is good, people are generally richer and better dressed (and better looking/taller) than their counterparts in hiphop clubs, and the clubs just feel more upscale in general.
Ahaaaa, I didn't mean nightclubs as in strip clubs, just to clarify. And can you look at my first post? Same page, up a couple posts.
I can still get along if I find the 'ugly club', right? (as in a community, not a dance club..) Oh okay doesn't apply to nonasians :D I'm glad they won't throw litter at me on the streets.
A really great read. You don't write a lot about girl fasion and im just wondering how koreans are with the skirt lenght. Are too short skirts considered cheap, or is it more of a "the shorter the better" mentality?
On March 21 2012 01:21 Stratos wrote: I can still get along if I find the 'ugly club', right? (as in a community, not a dance club..)
you'll be just fine, the large majority of the population is in this "ugly club" you speak of.
On March 21 2012 01:25 Junaka wrote: A really great read. You don't write a lot about girl fasion and im just wondering how koreans are with the skirt lenght. Are too short skirts considered cheap, or is it more of a "the shorter the better" mentality?
Parents hate it, girls love it... (And naturally us guys love it too) You can see the girls' perception on skirts in school: school girls often try to reduce their uniform's skirt length and make them tighter at a tailor, but schools have strict regulations so there's this constant battle between the girls trying to bend the rules and the teachers telling them not to. Teachers used to be able to beat the shit out of disobeying students but these days I heard things changed.
Fantastic read before my morning classes, quite a bit of insight into the culture. If I were to visit Korea as a Chinese immigrant living in Canada, what sort of treatment should I be expecting? Do Koreans treat Asian foreigners much like themselves or is it slightly different?
On March 20 2012 18:26 opisska wrote: It would almost make me think "oh look, koreans so stupid" if I haven't realised that most people in the West are probably in the same ballpark, when it comes to this, or a similar kind of idiocy.
I have a very simple way to get myself isolated from all this bullshit: I look like crap. I wear the cheap staff that is comfortable (most t-shirts from "worker's accesories" and some pants from an outdoor sale) and it sometimes has a hole here and there, I haven't seen a hairdresser in over 10 years (since my mother lost the power to tell we what to do), I don't shave, just cut it here and tehre with scissors when it starts to be physically annoying.
This way, I very easily get rid of or the superficial monkeys that I wouldn't like to talk to anyway and get to be with people who like me for who I am, not for how I look.
Hahaha, wow, that is just silly. Looking good and being presentable is a part of growing up, you are in serious need of some growing up, nobody thinks you're cool because you're saying fuck you to society. Dressing and looking like shit doesn't make you one of the cool guys, it just makes you look like shit. I bet you're one of those people who thinks guys who dress well are gay because you wish you could dress like them, but are too afraid to.
Well then I have no interest in this "growing up", I guess. Luckily, you do not get to decide what I am in need of. I am not trying to be cool, I am just me and it has worked perfectly for me my whole life. As I was trying to explain previously, it has the added bonus that I am naturally repulsive for people who I would probably consider assholes anyway, thus I am surrounded by some pretty amazing people, if you ask me.
I don't care if someone is gay or not, I do not think that the whole world revolves around sexuality. I do not wish to dress like them", because it woudl be extremely uncomfortable for me and I don't like that. Do you have any more similarly educated guesses about me?
Very interesting post, although I think the culture of conformity and pressure on kids to be a certain way, along with the mindset, is extendable to most of Southeast Asia (at least, the well developed parts). My ex-wife was a USAF brat, and went to high school in Singapore. She was somewhat upset that she couldn't get bleaching cold cream in the states when she came back, and some of her stories about her friends and their travels in the region were a little odd. (Example: a guy friend of hers visiting China, walks into a McDonald's. Places order. Cashier responds: "ROUNDEYE WANT HAMBURGER??" He says, "Yes, I would like a hamburger." Repeat two or three times. I heard this from said friend - although it was apparently Shanghai, which may or may not be on the same kind of plane as New York when it comes to stereotypical "polite strangers".) I think part of the difference in culture between East and West is, the East is somewhat more up front about some things (xenophobia, racism, whatever) than the West (where most people deny it exists, despite its deep institutional roots in some places), while the reverse is true about other things.
The blog post makes me wonder, though. A friend of mine (girl, about 5'9" or so, athletic but still a bit round, with long blond hair and blue eyes) went to Korea to teach English for a time. (She also is very into Tae Kwon Do.) She did learn a fair bit of Korean, but was also tongue-in-cheek - one of the t-shirts she would wear for tourist wandering was "Foreigner" in Korean. She told me that some of her students seemed to be scared of her and called her a ghost (which I thought was odd) - although she also managed to train in Tae Kwon Do with Grandmaster Park while in the country. I wonder if some of her experiences might have been like my cousin (who is insanely smart, but also tall, blond, "statuesque", and fluent in several languages of the region) had in Japan. (She describes walking down the street while Japanese guys followed behind her making very questionable comments about her physical appearance in Japanese, certain she couldn't understand them. Who would look like someone stomped their puppy when she turned around to address them politely in Japanese.)
Also, I think the Confucianism mentioned by someone else plays a role in the difference - a strong tradition of having a model of what every person should aspire to be, and a strong culture of trying to make everyone into that. (The US has this, too, but that role model is of a rugged individual. And we are all individuals. Just like everyone else.)
So i'm wondering, to most of the western world a lot of the common attitudes etc that you've outlined will seem pretty odd, unnecessary and in some cases really quite unpleasant, is there anything happening in korea thats moving towards things being more liberal in terms of individuality, looks, female equality etc? Are any of the younger koreans starting to feel like they want to change anything, or are things getting even more firmly set in the 'fit in but be better' mentality that seems to be the general theme in a lot of the culture from what you've said? I feel kind of sorry for a lot of young people in korea, fitting in with the crowd to avoid bullying etc is enough of a problem here in the UK, but it seems like young Koreans who don't fit in well must be very unhappy. A very informative post anyway it was definitely illuminating so thanks for that! It just seems so strange to me that a country that seems to have so much open progression in terms of technology and culture etc, whilst still maintaining a lot of natural beauty, can be so closed and backward in some of it's social ideology.
On March 19 2012 05:51 hai2u wrote: makes me glad im not living in Korea.
for guys it's not bad, i mean we get by if we are not perfectly groomed. However, for most chicks...the culture can be harsh and very cruel.
Well, my daily routine is : shower, brush teeth, put on clothes that don't smell/have stains. I think I would not enjoy living in Korea.
Don't get me wrong I look acceptable and dress pretty well but to have to actually put in more effort than that in it is too much... I shave once or twice a week only (except when I'm working but I'm at university right now so screw that) because I'm lazy. I get my hair cut really short once every 5-6 months so it stays looking acceptable for a long period of time instead of going often.
Honestly even my normal routine is tedious. Following fashion is something I will definitely never do and it seems, from this post, that it's the norm in Korea.
Well, it's pretty much the same for me. Guess I'm glad that I'm not living in Korea. But at least my height and head/body ratio seems perfectly fine(and probably the color of my skin as well).
Even though I'd be fine in Korea because I'm 6'3 with clear complexion and half white half Korean, the superficial culture that has taken over there makes me a little sick
On March 21 2012 03:15 Inverse1 wrote: So i'm wondering, to most of the western world a lot of the common attitudes etc that you've outlined will seem pretty odd, unnecessary and in some cases really quite unpleasant, is there anything happening in korea thats moving towards things being more liberal in terms of individuality, looks, female equality etc? Are any of the younger koreans starting to feel like they want to change anything, or are things getting even more firmly set in the 'fit in but be better' mentality that seems to be the general theme in a lot of the culture from what you've said? I feel kind of sorry for a lot of young people in korea, fitting in with the crowd to avoid bullying etc is enough of a problem here in the UK, but it seems like young Koreans who don't fit in well must be very unhappy. A very informative post anyway it was definitely illuminating so thanks for that! It just seems so strange to me that a country that seems to have so much open progression in terms of technology and culture etc, whilst still maintaining a lot of natural beauty, can be so closed and backward in some of it's social ideology.
As OP stated, this thread deals with the extreme cases. There are a lot of people being against this type of ideals, such as hating on men with short height and etc. When I surf around Nate or Pan where a lot of younger generation (15~30) Koreans post responses and share opinions, I can see that they are really against this North Face Parka madness, the short guy stuff (and they say the heart matters more), the sad state of young kids too focused on 'lookism' and such.
Of course, there are still plenty of people that are shallow and just like any place in the world, money buys everything. Lot of the airhead pretty girls will enjoy their life and get married to a rich guy, and vice versa. There are always light and shadows and Korea seems a bit extreme in public sense but not too much. Again, nowadays the 'right minded' students and people are not for these things and infact, most of the university students are not able to afford such luxury.
I do think it is pretty tough on highschoolers, as well as university students (Like, you gotta fit in with the group, go to MT and stuff), but in general, I don't think people are this extreme. What is true is people do care about how they dress generally, make up and etc.
But trust me, random people won't laugh at you because you are wearing a hoodie, they're not that impolite. Only to people they know!
On March 19 2012 05:51 hai2u wrote: makes me glad im not living in Korea.
for guys it's not bad, i mean we get by if we are not perfectly groomed. However, for most chicks...the culture can be harsh and very cruel.
Well, my daily routine is : shower, brush teeth, put on clothes that don't smell/have stains. I think I would not enjoy living in Korea.
Don't get me wrong I look acceptable and dress pretty well but to have to actually put in more effort than that in it is too much... I shave once or twice a week only (except when I'm working but I'm at university right now so screw that) because I'm lazy. I get my hair cut really short once every 5-6 months so it stays looking acceptable for a long period of time instead of going often.
Honestly even my normal routine is tedious. Following fashion is something I will definitely never do and it seems, from this post, that it's the norm in Korea.
Well, it's pretty much the same for me. Guess I'm glad that I'm not living in Korea. But at least my height and head/body ratio seems perfectly fine(and probably the color of my skin as well).
nobody cares about dressing up on a daily basis, unless you are a rich girl and just into that stuff. wear nice things on weekends when you go out, you are making it sound like people get up and work on their for an hour every morning (a small population might, but the reality is not like that)
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
also, please read this post before you make your conclusions (minus the assumptions about the OP, i have no interest in doing that). none of my cousins who live in korea have gotten plastic surgeries. they are wealthy but normal people living in seoul. i feel like some people are getting a much exaggerated perception of what it's like.
I tried googling this out of curiosity but I just kept getting compression ratios and how do measure "heads" on liquids. So if this is following art I will assume the head to height ratio is based on the measurement of the head from the chin to the top of the head, is that correct? I would then divide my total height by that to come up with the ratio?
Can't say I care all that much but I am curious. If I did this right my chin to top of my skull is 8.75 inches and my total height is 72 inches. So my head to height is basically 1:8.22
On March 21 2012 05:37 Synwave wrote: I tried googling this out of curiosity but I just kept getting compression ratios and how do measure "heads" on liquids. So if this is following art I will assume the head to height ratio is based on the measurement of the head from the chin to the top of the head, is that correct? I would then divide my total height by that to come up with the ratio?
Can't say I care all that much but I am curious. If I did this right my chin to top of my skull is 8.75 inches and my total height is 72 inches. So my head to height is basically 1:8.22
Did I do that right?
yup. It's not a familiar concept in the western world; I've only seen it mentioned by artists in youtube videos explaining how to draw the human body accurately.
I found your describing of the new aspects of modern Korean culture very interesting. I do not mind you doing it without any scientific references. It was your experience and did it very honestly - leaving no detail out to prevail some sort of nationalistic agenda.
You cannot be responsible for people taking every word as a fact, since this is just a blog. Of course it is biased as hell. Nevertheless a great read.
On March 21 2012 05:37 Synwave wrote: I tried googling this out of curiosity but I just kept getting compression ratios and how do measure "heads" on liquids. So if this is following art I will assume the head to height ratio is based on the measurement of the head from the chin to the top of the head, is that correct? I would then divide my total height by that to come up with the ratio?
Can't say I care all that much but I am curious. If I did this right my chin to top of my skull is 8.75 inches and my total height is 72 inches. So my head to height is basically 1:8.22
Did I do that right?
yup. It's not a familiar concept in the western world; I've only seen it mentioned by artists in youtube videos explaining how to draw the human body accurately.
I want to point something incredibly shallow that I have noticed while in college. International students generally are less attractive to ABC's or other varieties of x-generation Asian-Americans. Of course, there are some exceptions (read: O_O), though my school is maybe a bit strange because the number of international Asians exceeds the number of Asian Americans. They still mostly dress really nicely-- I guess many must be quite wealthy (and must have done bad on the gao kao or other equivalent) because tuition here is 50k in full, and it's very hard to get financial aid as a non-citizen.
I'm getting that foreigners are exempt from the "rules". How do Koreans treat/view other Asians? Are we all lumped in together and are subjected to the same "rules" of appearance?
On March 20 2012 20:38 Wildmoon wrote: Why Korean care about their appearance that much?
If you read the OP you would understand that this kind of obsession with fashion and looks is a way for them to express their rather new found wealth and status as a land. It's kinda like "Look at me I'm not poor" but in a slightly more.......refined... way.
Btw, it's frowned upon to reveal much cleavage in Korea, so the top of the body of the gals is pretty much covered. But the bottom part, my dear, damn the bottom part...
I know this sounds like im a terrible person, but this just made me want to go to Korea so bad im 6'4 smaller than average head and always been told im good looking, i could create a commune filled with scientifically perfected korean girls to do my bidding.
I hear a lot of posters saying "wow I won't fit in because I don't dress impeccably (or like the Koreans do)"
You won't fit in because you're probably not east Asian first of all, second you can't speak the language and last and most importantly, you're not Korean! Those are the important things...not the way you dress.
So if you're a scruffy white guy with bad skin (no matter how white) that looks like shit, you will be treated as such, just prob more ostracized than in your own country.
China, where I live at the moment, is more forgiving of bad presentation...but if you dress like crap in a city like Shanghai people are still gonna look at you like you're odd and judge you. If you can't stand a certain amount of superficiality do not...I REPEAT DO NOT come to East Asia!
There's currently a lot of wealth in East Asia so more disposable income = spending on frivolous things. The streets of Shanghai are paved with Ferraris and Porsches for example.
The difference with braces is that they are often given for genuine health reasons. If the teeth are misaligned then parts of the top and bottom begin to grind against each other when they shouldn't and wear down the teeth. I don't know the percentage who get it purely for aesthetic reasons but I know mine certainly weren't.
On March 21 2012 09:42 tWuKrameR wrote: I know this sounds like im a terrible person, but this just made me want to go to Korea so bad im 6'4 smaller than average head and always been told im good looking, i could create a commune filled with scientifically perfected korean girls to do my bidding.
Are you Korean? Do you speak Korean? Those are probably the #1 and #2 factors. Everything else will be overshadowed by the fact you are a foreigner.
On March 19 2012 07:41 hai2u wrote: good thing here in America there are so many fat ppl around that the standards are so low keke.
Hahaha. I lol'd
The funniest part is that shit is true.
I lived in Korea for over 4 years. My wife is Korean...
It's so got damn true. Majority of the Korean girls are slim and attractive in my opinion.
Soon as I came back to the United States all I've mainly see is fat slobbish women. It's just ridiculous how black and white Korea and the United States really is. It doesn't help when TV constantly throws fast food commercials in your face.
the average American diet and Korean diet is so different.
On March 21 2012 09:42 tWuKrameR wrote: I know this sounds like im a terrible person, but this just made me want to go to Korea so bad im 6'4 smaller than average head and always been told im good looking, i could create a commune filled with scientifically perfected korean girls to do my bidding.
What you will find are dirty sluts in Itaewon, trust me, the A class 'real' perfect korean girls don't go for foreign guys, this is even true in Canada (and obviously Korea). I have never ever seen a 1.5 generation proper korean girl dating a foreign guy, except I've seen mediocre ones dating Chinese guys (They really treat their girls nicely, more so than Korean dudes).
Of course, there are exceptions, but the looks will not get you far as a foreigner.
Man i'm like 5'6 and my biggest height goal is 5'8ish i guess i would be considered tiny~ish? I mean i'm small for the states but i personally don't care. I could not live in a society like that i would go insane. I'm made fun of in the states for living by a doctrine that i heard from an old camp counselor, "I don't let my brands define me," and from then i get creative with my clothing ranging from my long sleeve "emo-black" shirts to my vintage T's from target or other small brands that no one has heard of to my knit ties from small start ups to my Vans shoes that i colored in so they represent me. If i had to abide by rules like that i would break with it an rebel SOO hard. I wouldn't care if i got my ass beat most likely cuz i would just join a counter culture, though i guess eventually i would just give in and stop rebelling but by then i would be soooo far ostracized xD.
I thought about what's attractive to me and it feels like I kind of dislike people with small heads? I have no idea why that is, definitely guys more than girls though. But huge faces on the other hand are even more repulsive. Does it seem sexy to anyone when a tall guy has a small head?
On March 22 2012 00:46 ecstatica wrote: I thought about what's attractive to me and it feels like I kind of dislike people with small heads? I have no idea why that is, definitely guys more than girls though. But huge faces on the other hand are even more repulsive. Does it seem sexy to anyone when a tall guy has a small head?
cannot speak for the tl community but apparently korea does^^
i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ?
So this is just the korean side of the story, and there may be the other side of the story, so I hope nobody will be offended by what im about to write. This also in no way represents the entire population of Korea, but it holds true for the large majority.
Our hatred for japan mainly stems from historical reasons: japan occupied korea for abt 35 years starting in 1910, which ended with their surrendering to the Allied forces during ww2. They fucked with koreans during that regime big time, telling guys to cut their hair (confucian ideology prohibited mangling the body your mother gave you, including hair, so it was a BIG deal) and change their last names japanese style (창씨개명). There were rapes, massacres, pillages throughout the regime, and during ww2 they forced korean guys to be the japanese army's meatshield, while the women were sent as sex slaves. They were treated like shit, being raped, tortured, and finally killed when they were injured enough to be deemed useless (=if the sex slave was too 'loose' to provide adequate services anymore). They aborted babies by puncturing the womb from the stomach and the slaves were forced to relieve dozens of soldiers daily. There are also other horror stories such as being forced to eat the remains of each other's corpses, which you can find on google in your own time. The biggest thing is we believe the japanese govt never truly apologized for their behavior during ww2, nor were the high ranking officials during ww2 ever tried in court as war criminals. This is in contrast to Germany, which sentenced high ranking Gestapo officers as war criminals. To add insult to injury, there's a faction of japanese ppl arguing that the so-called sex slaves are making shit up, and were in fact whores that jumped at the first opportunity to expand their clientele internationally, who now want un-warranted compensation for their reckless behavior in the past. Also, Japanese schools once in a while try to sneak in textbooks that use altered versions of history: for example, their narratives oftentimes cast the actions taken by Japan leading up to and during WW2 in a euphemistic light, by only mentioning stuff like 'Japan helped Korea's economic expansion during the early 1900's by implementing a central railway system,' while leaving out facts about the killings, rapes and events such as assassinating our matriarch to put pressure on our ruling class. This gets the old generation pissed because they saw their friends and family killed/raped/tortured with their own eyes during that time, and even younger people like me get riled up as the surviving sex slaves are now poor grandmas who lived an empty shell of a life, shunned by their friends and family, with no husband nor children. Most have passed away, physically and emotionally broken with nobody at the sides of their deathbeds.
As for the chinese, they used to invade us regularly throughout history, and have us send them our produce, our women, etc. We were their stooge for the large part of history, but it's a thing of the past. We don't hate them, nor does our dislike toward the Chinese run anywhere as deep as our hatred towards japan; we just think the chinese are dirty that will do anything for their own betterment. I can't deny that a bit of racism is at play here though.
Those are just the biggest reasons why we don't like Japanese and Chinese people. There are other reasons as well, like Japan arguing that the island of Dokdo (독도) is theirs and stuff, but nothing major. Again, i dont mean to offend anybody, this is just the korean side of the story, no fluff or beating around the bush.
Here's a fun anecdote I just remembered. This was way before this thread was created.
We have a native Korean friend who has spent a few years here studying. He's quite different from us since we're your typical laid back Vietnamese-Americans but we have fun cracking jokes and having the usual casual conversations with each other.
We like to call him "chamisul" because that was his WoW character's name, his real name of course is so stereotypical it was hard for us to say it without commenting on it either aloud or in the back of our minds each time. Chamisul is usually pretty quiet, he seems to enjoy listening in on our conversations and make small comments and laugh to remind us that he's there. But overall he's just a very quiet normal looking guy.
But one day... we started to talk about clothing and fashion. All was well until we started talking about Korean Fashion, particularly the outfits of celebrities in music videos. One of my buddies suddenly started saying to our Chamisul, hey Park don't you see a lot of Koreans wearing crazy colorful clothes like G-Dragon does in his videos? Man oh man did our Chamisul EXPLODE on us. Like holy shit, he's always quiet, but then we started to talk about Korean fashion and GD and all he went off on us lol.
He was like: "Only complete idiots or terrible wannabes will dress up like that in public", "You would never, NEVER see that in reality." exclaimed our Korean friend.
"Really? Ne-"
"NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!" screamed Chamisul cutting off our friend.
We all just sat there silently shocked at his outburst.
On March 22 2012 02:38 Snuggles wrote: Here's a fun anecdote I just remembered. This was way before this thread was created.
We have a native Korean friend who has spent a few years here studying. He's quite different from us since we're your typical laid back Vietnamese-Americans but we have fun cracking jokes and having the usual casual conversations with each other.
We like to call him "chamisul" because that was his WoW character's name, his real name of course is so stereotypical it was hard for us to say it without commenting on it either aloud or in the back of our minds each time. Chamisul is usually pretty quiet, he seems to enjoy listening in on our conversations and make small comments and laugh to remind us that he's there. But overall he's just a very quiet normal looking guy.
But one day... we started to talk about clothing and fashion. All was well until we started talking about Korean Fashion, particularly the outfits of celebrities in music videos. One of my buddies suddenly started saying to our Chamisul, hey Park don't you see a lot of Koreans wearing crazy colorful clothes like G-Dragon does in his videos? Man oh man did our Chamisul EXPLODE on us. Like holy shit, he's always quiet, but then we started to talk about Korean fashion and GD and all he went off on us lol.
He was like: "Only complete idiots or terrible wannabes will dress up like that in public", "You would never, NEVER see that in reality." exclaimed our Korean friend.
"Really? Ne-"
"NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!" screamed Chamisul cutting off our friend.
We all just sat there silently shocked at his outburst.
by Snuggles Copyright 2012
That is very true, the way that idol stars dress is very different from how commoners dress, and even among idols G-Dragon is like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay crazy. I support your friend in that nobody in his right mind will EVER dress like G-Dragon lol
didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
I never said i agreed with the popular sentiments towards the Chinese, I just laid out the honest reason why a lot of Koreans dissociate themselves from Chinese people
and what do you mean our country was founded by the shang dynasty, the big stages of our country's progression were Old Chosun (고조선) founded by Dan Goon 5000 years ago -> the three country phase (신라 백제 고구려) which was unified by the Shilla - Tang allliance -> Shilla and Balhae(발해, successors of 고구려's ideals) stage -> the second three country phase with 신라 후백제 후고구려 -> Koryuh(Korea = 고려) -> Chosun (조선) -> Modern day Korea, where does the shang dynasty come in again exactly? Do you mean that according to a theory spawned by a particular group of historians, Dan Goon, who was probably the patriarch of a ruling family near the norther regions of modern day Korea's territory, may or may not have had Chinese roots mixed into his heritage somewhere along his family tree?
edit: I go to clubs to have superficial fun, not deep, meaningful conversations, so I'm happy with clubs that cater to a richer taller and prettier looking crowd, what's wrong with that?
On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ?
(Disclaimer: Not Korean. Taiwanese-American, and just my observations and answers I get from my parents and my other Asian friends and their parents. Also, when I use first-person plural pronouns, I am not talking about myself, but, y'know, East Asian people in general, with the added caveat that obviously not everyone is this way.)
Racism in East Asia is way more complicated and twisted than racism in the Western world; I feel it's a lot less black and white (no pun intended), and it's difficult to address it in a comprehensive manner, esp. on a forum. In general though, you can pretty much count on almost every East Asian country hating Japan for its actions during wartime. (And ofc, you can always count on conflict between Taiwan and China.) It's changing a little as we get farther and farther away from WW2, but it's kind of the thing you won't forget easily, if at all.
I feel that Asians overall practice casual racism pretty widely, with some of the older generation being more vehement in their hate and some of the younger generation picking it up. It has to do with bluntness and the shared history and tensions there, which in some countries gives rise to more mutual understanding that leads to less tension (somehow?) but in Asia it tends to promote more fragmentation, IMO. (Ethnic nationalism and all that jazz, with the knowledge that we all came from one people, but also with the desire to establish our own identity and to set ourselves apart from our neighbors. For instance, there are some tombs in Japan whose dead may be able to establish an ancestral link between Korea and Japan, but the Japanese gvmt won't let archaeologists dig them up for fear of discovering that the Japanese people are actually Korean by descent!) In any case, everyone knows the dirty laundry of everyone else's country, so there's little to hide, and we all know we have pretty legitimate reasons to hate each other in some way, shape, or fashion, so ... a lot of people do.
What I'm interested in is how important do Koreans view racial "blood purity" still, whether the younger generation still ascribes to that view or if it's starting to dilute a bit. How are mixed-children treated?
On March 19 2012 08:28 Endymion wrote: this makes me wish i lived in korea, americans should take notes..
You think american should go more superficial?
just because it's "superficial" doesn't mean it's not practical. if partaking in superficial activities and customs makes you more attractive to the opposite gender, employers, awesome ppl, then i would argue such customs were only superficially superficial.
On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ?
(Disclaimer: Not Korean. Taiwanese-American, and just my observations and answers I get from my parents and my other Asian friends and their parents. Also, when I use first-person plural pronouns, I am not talking about myself, but, y'know, East Asian people in general, with the added caveat that obviously not everyone is this way.)
Racism in East Asia is way more complicated and twisted than racism in the Western world; I feel it's a lot less black and white (no pun intended), and it's difficult to address it in a comprehensive manner, esp. on a forum. In general though, you can pretty much count on almost every East Asian country hating Japan for its actions during wartime. (And ofc, you can always count on conflict between Taiwan and China.) It's changing a little as we get farther and farther away from WW2, but it's kind of the thing you won't forget easily, if at all.
I feel that Asians overall practice casual racism pretty widely, with some of the older generation being more vehement in their hate and some of the younger generation picking it up. It has to do with bluntness and the shared history and tensions there, which in some countries gives rise to more mutual understanding that leads to less tension (somehow?) but in Asia it tends to promote more fragmentation, IMO. (Ethnic nationalism and all that jazz, with the knowledge that we all came from one people, but also with the desire to establish our own identity and to set ourselves apart from our neighbors. For instance, there are some tombs in Japan whose dead may be able to establish an ancestral link between Korea and Japan, but the Japanese gvmt won't let archaeologists dig them up for fear of discovering that the Japanese people are actually Korean by descent!) In any case, everyone knows the dirty laundry of everyone else's country, so there's little to hide, and we all know we have pretty legitimate reasons to hate each other in some way, shape, or fashion, so ... a lot of people do.
What I'm interested in is how important do Koreans view racial "blood purity" still, whether the younger generation still ascribes to that view or if it's starting to dilute a bit. How are mixed-children treated?
The situation with Taiwan and the PRC is pretty complicated though. The PRC communist party throughout the years of Maoist communist rule built a lot of legitimacy on the idea that Taiwan is part of China. Even though the original inhabitants of the island were not Han Chinese and traditionally the island has had stronger ties to Japan, it's part of the general nationalist focused revisionist history put foward by Mao and which the PRC still holds to today.
It's feared by a lot of people in the PRC government that if Taiwan were to declair formal independance, the legitimacy of the communist party rule could be brought into question as much of was originally built on Maoist ideas. Whether that would really happen is questionable, but many do believe it. There's also a lot of abstract nationalism tied to Taiwan too, not unlike Japan and the Sinkaku islands, or Serbia and Kosovo.
I have my doubts that the PRC government would risk war with the US over Taiwan. When the Taiwan independence movement gained steam in the mid 90s the PRC made a lot of overt threats, but backed down when the US sent in two carrier groups to the region. However I think all three parties understand that a war would be bad for everyone, thus the "one country two systems" theory.
As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote: I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty.
It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon.
I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked.
But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural.
To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Koreanand I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery.
Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence.
You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change.
Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below
when i was in school i was a real bad stoner. if i think back this would have been my nightmare. i was proud of myself when i managed to get a haircut once every 3 months.
but i feel alot of people here overreact as if somehow in the rest of the world you would be real popular if you are fat, ugly and have no job.also in germany alot of people dislike turks because of how they act... we all have it here too... the trends the looks.. i guess the difference is if you are a nice person or funny you get less shit for not being on top of your appearence... just my thoughts...
but i guess i would stop buy cigarets in sweatpants if i would move to korea haha
On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ?
So this is just the korean side of the story, and there may be the other side of the story, so I hope nobody will be offended by what im about to write. This also in no way represents the entire population of Korea, but it holds true for the large majority.
Our hatred for japan mainly stems from historical reasons: japan occupied korea for abt 35 years starting in 1910, which ended with their surrendering to the Allied forces during ww2. They fucked with koreans during that regime big time, telling guys to cut their hair (confucian ideology prohibited mangling the body your mother gave you, including hair, so it was a BIG deal) and change their last names japanese style (창씨개명). There were rapes, massacres, pillages throughout the regime, and during ww2 they forced korean guys to be the japanese army's meatshield, while the women were sent as sex slaves. They were treated like shit, being raped, tortured, and finally killed when they were injured enough to be deemed useless (=if the sex slave was too 'loose' to provide adequate services anymore). They aborted babies by puncturing the womb from the stomach and the slaves were forced to relieve dozens of soldiers daily. There are also other horror stories such as being forced to eat the remains of each other's corpses, which you can find on google in your own time. The biggest thing is we believe the japanese govt never truly apologized for their behavior during ww2, nor were the high ranking officials during ww2 ever tried in court as war criminals. This is in contrast to Germany, which sentenced high ranking Gestapo officers as war criminals. To add insult to injury, there's a faction of japanese ppl arguing that the so-called sex slaves are making shit up, and were in fact whores that jumped at the first opportunity to expand their clientele internationally, who now want un-warranted compensation for their reckless behavior in the past. Also, Japanese schools once in a while try to sneak in textbooks that use altered versions of history: for example, their narratives oftentimes cast the actions taken by Japan leading up to and during WW2 in a euphemistic light, by only mentioning stuff like 'Japan helped Korea's economic expansion during the early 1900's by implementing a central railway system,' while leaving out facts about the killings, rapes and events such as assassinating our matriarch to put pressure on our ruling class. This gets the old generation pissed because they saw their friends and family killed/raped/tortured with their own eyes during that time, and even younger people like me get riled up as the surviving sex slaves are now poor grandmas who lived an empty shell of a life, shunned by their friends and family, with no husband nor children. Most have passed away, physically and emotionally broken with nobody at the sides of their deathbeds.
As for the chinese, they used to invade us regularly throughout history, and have us send them our produce, our women, etc. We were their stooge for the large part of history, but it's a thing of the past. We don't hate them, nor does our dislike toward the Chinese run anywhere as deep as our hatred towards japan; we just think the chinese are dirty that will do anything for their own betterment. I can't deny that a bit of racism is at play here though.
Those are just the biggest reasons why we don't like Japanese and Chinese people. There are other reasons as well, like Japan arguing that the island of Dokdo (독도) is theirs and stuff, but nothing major. Again, i dont mean to offend anybody, this is just the korean side of the story, no fluff or beating around the bush.
Holy Shit. My Granddad's fought in the Korean war, one was a machine gunner in the British Army, the other was a signal officer in the Navy. They told me a lot of crazy shit, battles with fuck all survivors (on the british/us/south korean side) carrying huge knives when he was at sea, due to the sharks (not to fight them off, but to kill themselves if they were sunk rather than be eaten) So I knew Korea had a kinda crazy history, but I have never heard anything like this. They have both passed away now, and I have their medals from WW2/korean war, but I'd have loved to ask them if they knew of this when they served in Korea.
Makes me glad to be born in Northern Ireland, even with the bombs/shootings etc when I was growing up. The world is one fucked up place.
I'm late to the party, but damn, nice blog! I love reading these types of blogs about culture and other countries. For anyone that is looking to read more about Korea, here is a nice thread on the Korean night life.
What is the general consensus on interracial dating or marriage? I have a friend who is Vietnamese American and his girlfriend is Korean American. Her parents are pretty traditional and don't really approve of the boyfriend. I don't know the full details, but I heard things like how Koreans aren't that fond of Vietnamese folks? I heard her mention something called ASL (Asian Social Ladder) and how Southeast Asians are usually looked down upon.
Awesome blog. It's cool to read about a different culture and read about how others find value in life!
...and shame on everyone criticizing the culture. It'd take all of 8 seconds for someone to make a blog about how North American culture is about working as little as possible for as much money as possible and as little work as possible to get there in the first place, all the while consuming as much excess as we possibly can... but almost everyone that lives here will agree that that would be a generalization, and for the majority of the population mostly untrue.
It's fair to think it strange that another country is largely focused on money and looks, but it is unfair to criticize their vanity from a throne comprised of gluttony and blood sports. Everyone and everything has its own problems. Spend less time worrying about someone else's, and more time worrying about your own!
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
Ecstatica - don't comment on what you don't know. Japan investing heavily in Korea? Please.
And SKilledbob - no, Japanese government never did the honorable thing and formally apologize to Korea. They keep on making excuses here and there, thus the reason for the Korean government recently demanding an official, formal apologies from the Japanese government.
Japanese government invested in what satisfied their self-interests, don't make it sound like Korea became what it is today because of Japan.
And there are a lot of incorrect 'statements' being made here in this thread.
You will NOT be looked down upon just 'cause u ain't korean.
Korean people put being decent and being respectful. Now those two qualities of decency and being respectful goes towards both one's behaviors AND mentality.
You guys mistakenly think that Korean people like those in dress good simply 'cause they look good. NOT TRUE. It is done because in our culture, being respectful means being respectful towards others and to him/her ownself. Being well groomed and dressed simply reflects on the fact that person is being respectful to himself and to the society.
Now on that note, and on the fact that Koreans in general do not have hostility towards caucasian race, if you look like a respectable person, you will be respected regardless of the color of your skin. I might even add that they would give you extra attention just 'cause you stand out from the rest.
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
On March 22 2012 07:18 zoLo wrote: I'm late to the party, but damn, nice blog! I love reading these types of blogs about culture and other countries. For anyone that is looking to read more about Korea, here is a nice thread on the Korean night life.
What is the general consensus on interracial dating or marriage? I have a friend who is Vietnamese American and his girlfriend is Korean American. Her parents are pretty traditional and don't really approve of the boyfriend. I don't know the full details, but I heard things like how Koreans aren't that fond of Vietnamese folks? I heard her mention something called ASL (Asian Social Ladder) and how Southeast Asians are usually looked down upon.
I would say out of SE asians, the vietnamese are the LEAST prejudiced against, partly because of our part in the Vietnam War.
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
Ecstatica - don't comment on what you don't know. Japan investing heavily in Korea? Please.
And SKilledbob - no, Japanese government never did the honorable thing and formally apologize to Korea. They keep on making excuses here and there, thus the reason for the Korean government recently demanding an official, formal apologies from the Japanese government.
Japanese government invested in what satisfied their self-interests, don't make it sound like Korea became what it is today because of Japan.
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
Ecstatica - don't comment on what you don't know. Japan investing heavily in Korea? Please.
And SKilledbob - no, Japanese government never did the honorable thing and formally apologize to Korea. They keep on making excuses here and there, thus the reason for the Korean government recently demanding an official, formal apologies from the Japanese government.
Japanese government invested in what satisfied their self-interests, don't make it sound like Korea became what it is today because of Japan.
What in the world is your definition of "formal apology"?
Now I am speaking from my own understanding of the matter - and having lived for nearly 20 years outside of Korea, my understanding of the matter may be shallow - is that those apologies were made in private meetings, and not sure if they count as an official statement.
Furthermore, the biggest issue is that Japan is saying one thing, but acting in another way. The issue of Japanese government modifying the facts of history in their national history curriculum is one great example. They are attempting to educate their young that Japan has not committed those war crimes.
On March 22 2012 09:45 iMYoonA wrote: I always thought of Asia as being Chinese people who floated expansions over to islands.
Also most of Asia is mad at Japan, they also tried to make the Shanghai World Financial Centre into a shape of a knife.
Should all just invade Japan collectively for some lols
And I am sure you think of European and South American nations as being American people who floated expansions over to their islands too.
Think how offensive that statement can be.
America and South American nations were basically European people who floated expansions over to the New World. Why would he think that European and South American nations were American people that floated expansions over there?
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
On March 22 2012 09:45 iMYoonA wrote: I always thought of Asia as being Chinese people who floated expansions over to islands.
Also most of Asia is mad at Japan, they also tried to make the Shanghai World Financial Centre into a shape of a knife.
Should all just invade Japan collectively for some lols
And I am sure you think of European and South American nations as being American people who floated expansions over to their islands too.
Think how offensive that statement can be.
America and South American nations were basically European people who floated expansions over to the New World. Why would he think that European and South American nations were American people that floated expansions over there?
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
You bring up a lot of rational points, but one thing I have to argue against is regarding 'forgive and forget'. Yes that has to be done at a certain point, but u can't 'forget' what is currently taking place. I am sure a lot of Jewish people would be out-raged if Germany revises their history of WW2 as providing ethical and well-provided concentration camps for Jewish ethnicity. I am not simply talking about deeds that are already done. I'm talking about the notion that Japanese are attempting to continue their ideology that they were enforcing upon Korean people during WW2.
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
There is war and then there are war crimes. I don't like weighing lives against each other so to say, but decades of harsh colonial rule and systematic attempts to abuse and disparage a nation of people don't really seem to compare with just under 4 years of war which by and large didn't take place on U.S. soil. Also, don't straw man by saying it's like asking Mongolians to apologizes for the crimes of Ghengis Khan. Right now children of those who lived through the Japanese occupation of Korea are still alive and it clearly is still embedded in the consciousness of the country. There is nothing wrong with it and if anyone is going to endure anything like that imo they have every right to be angry when there are no reprisals or apologies. Sure with time it tensions should be expected to ease but as Americans who by and large really haven't endured anything similar who are we to tell another nation to "be the bigger man"? [insert callous argument about how we took 9/11 and basically used it as a justification to rape and plunder nations]
I think you'll also find people who would hardly agree that the a-bombs and firebombing campaigns are hardly justice or fair compensation for any other atrocities that happened in the Pacific theater, but that's a topic for another day.
On March 22 2012 09:45 iMYoonA wrote: I always thought of Asia as being Chinese people who floated expansions over to islands.
Also most of Asia is mad at Japan, they also tried to make the Shanghai World Financial Centre into a shape of a knife.
Should all just invade Japan collectively for some lols
And I am sure you think of European and South American nations as being American people who floated expansions over to their islands too.
Think how offensive that statement can be.
America and South American nations were basically European people who floated expansions over to the New World. Why would he think that European and South American nations were American people that floated expansions over there?
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
You bring up a lot of rational points, but one thing I have to argue against is regarding 'forgive and forget'. Yes that has to be done at a certain point, but u can't 'forget' what is currently taking place. I am sure a lot of Jewish people would be out-raged if Germany revises their history of WW2 as providing ethical and well-provided concentration camps for Jewish ethnicity. I am not simply talking about deeds that are already done. I'm talking about the notion that Japanese are attempting to continue their ideology that they were enforcing upon Korean people during WW2.
Just to further support your argument, the following happened last year when Japan got hit by the tsunami. Obviously not every American is like that, but just pointing out it's not as easy for everyone to forget sometimes.
Anyways looks like this topic has taken a turn into the off-topic land.
Going back to the original topic, I wanted to try to present where the high-priority in looking good & decent comes from in Korean culture. Sure enough, the original value in keeping oneself properly groomed as to show respect to the others and to the society has gotten shadowed by the endeavor to look better and more beautiful. Nonetheless though, keep in mind that Koreans place bigger emphasis on their self-perception of how others view them. (whether that's a negative or positive trait, is a different topic)
Too much misinformation being floated around here :r
It's why I underlined the dangerous of generalization in my previous posts. (sorry lost my password for the first account) First South Korea isn't an anti-Japanese state like China. In a lot of the survey or polls conducted you would often seen Koreans actually having more positive view than negatives toward the Japanese. What a surprise! Not. This is if you actually know the politics in S Korea you would know better how the liberals (left wing) would often accuse the conservatives of being Pro-Japanese (친일)
As a conservative myself I wouldn't say I'm pro-japanese but more of a neutral stance. What people need to realize is that both Japan and S.Korea have their own extreme nationalists and they don't represent their country. I'm aware that K-pop culture can be quite popular there but I'm also aware of the fact that there is an equally big anti-Korean crowd (also anti-Chinese) where they completely dominate majority of the popular Japanese sites. From my own experience it's a lot more severe and far larger than the anti-japanese crowd in Korea both in the internet and in real life. So please stop with this accusation of Koreans irrationally hating on the Japanese which is more based on assumption and stereotypes than actual facts.
S.Korea is a fully democratic country where everyone has different beliefs on how they view each country. It's silly to group them as one and define them as such and this.
As for China, negative view is more due to the fact that S.Korea for most part has been dominated by the anti-communist, right-wing, conservative government. In the past they would often depict Chinese communists as dirty, barbaric, uncivilized people. Despite popular belief, Korean government didn't use Japan to rile the Korean nationalists like the lunatic right wingers in Japan often accuse us of. It was quite opposite since we were busy fighting with the N.Koreans and that has always been the biggest issue politically in S.Korea, even today. This really has nothing to do with the Chinese people in general since N.Koreans were often depicted in a similar fashion and they are ethnically Koreans. Chinese people who live in a democratic state are viewed more positively like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan.
It also has nothing to do with Chinese constantly invading Koreans in ancient history which is really incorrect anyway since Chinese rarely invaded Koreans in the first place and just to clear things up, even though Koreans weren't expansionist they were quite good at repelling invaders from taking over their country. One good example was during Koryo Era where Koreans didn't have problem winning war against the Khitans, who at that time for good amount of period had the strongest miliatary in East Asia. So it was more than just the Koguryo Era (3 kingdom period) where Koreans had capable miliatry. Also Korean navy for most part had significant lead over the Japanese counterparts up until the 1800s. It's unfortunate that the Koreans aren't perceived that way mainly thanks to our left wingers in our country with their victim mentality and inability to move forward on anything.
Also most Koreans don't have problem with South East Asians. I love them. Me and my gf went to thailand and indoensia recently and we really enjoyed it. Great food, great place! Only reasons why Koreans are uncomfortable with non-Koreans isn't because they are racist but because of the extremely homogenous society. They aren't used to foreigners and they just don't know how to act and mostly because they don't want to embarass themselves and is why there are a lot of them that try to avoid such situation in the first place. It's not because Koreans think they are dirty or look down on them. It's why I keep saying it's more of misunderstanding than anything else and it has a lot to do with culturual differences. It's like asking african americans to eat fried chicken and watermelon without knowing such racist stereotypes exists.
At last and not least, S.Korea isn't anti-US or else the pro-US goverment wouldn't have been elected majority 90% of the time in the last 50 years. Problem with the anti-american sentiment here is that the liberals control the media and despite them being minority pretends to be our spokesperson. For instance they think Kor-US FTA is american imperialism when in fact majority of the Koreans think it's good on almost all polls and survey conducted. S.Koreans for most part are pro USA, pro western (including EU) and has been that way since forever.
On March 22 2012 13:23 StephanoTheGenius2 wrote: Too much misinformation being floated around here :r
It's why I underlined the dangerous of generalization in my previous posts. (sorry lost my password for the first account) First South Korea isn't an anti-Japanese state like China. In a lot of the survey or polls conducted you would often seen Koreans actually having more positive view than negatives toward the Japanese. What a surprise! Not. This is if you actually know the politics in S Korea you would know better how the liberals (left wing) would often accuse the conservatives of being Pro-Japanese (친일)
As a conservative myself I wouldn't say I'm pro-japanese but more of a neutral stance. What people need to realize is that both Japan and S.Korea have their own extreme nationalists and they don't represent their country. I'm aware that K-pop culture can be quite popular there but I'm also aware of the fact that there is an equally big anti-Korean crowd (also anti-Chinese) where they completely dominate majority of the popular Japanese sites. From my own experience it's a lot more severe and far larger than the anti-japanese crowd in Korea both in the internet and in real life. So please stop with this accusation of Koreans irrationally hating on the Japanese which is more based on assumption and stereotypes than actual facts.
S.Korea is a fully democratic country where everyone has different beliefs on how they view each country. It's silly to group them as one and define them as such and this.
As for China, negative view is more due to the fact that S.Korea for most part has been dominated by the anti-communist, right-wing, conservative government. In the past they would often depict Chinese communists as dirty, barbaric, uncivilized people. Despite popular belief, Korean government didn't use Japan to rile the Korean nationalists like the lunatic right wingers in Japan often accuse us of. It was quite opposite since we were busy fighting with the N.Koreans and that has always been the biggest issue politically in S.Korea, even today. This really has nothing to do with the Chinese people in general since N.Koreans were often depicted in a similar fashion and they are ethnically Koreans. Chinese people who live in a democratic state are viewed more positively like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan.
It also has nothing to do with Chinese constantly invading Koreans in ancient history which is really incorrect anyway since Chinese rarely invaded Koreans in the first place and just to clear things up, even though Koreans weren't expansionist they were quite good at repelling invaders from taking over their country. One good example was during Koryo Era where Koreans didn't have problem winning war against the Khitans, who at that time for good amount of period had the strongest miliatary in East Asia. So it was more than just the Koguryo Era (3 kingdom period) where Koreans had capable miliatry. Also Korean navy for most part had significant lead over the Japanese counterparts up until the 1800s. It's unfortunate that the Koreans aren't perceived that way mainly thanks to our left wingers in our country with their victim mentality and inability to move forward on anything.
Also most Koreans don't have problem with South East Asians. I love them. Me and my gf went to thailand and indoensia recently and we really enjoyed it. Great food, great place! Only reasons why Koreans are uncomfortable with non-Koreans isn't because they are racist but because of the extremely homogenous society. They aren't used to foreigners and they just don't know how to act and mostly because they don't want to embarass themselves and is why there are a lot of them that try to avoid such situation in the first place. It's not because Koreans think they are dirty or look down on them. It's why I keep saying it's more of misunderstanding than anything else and it has a lot to do with culturual differences. It's like asking african americans to eat fried chicken and watermelon without knowing such racist stereotypes exists.
At last and not least, S.Korea isn't anti-US or else the pro-US goverment wouldn't have been elected majority 90% of the time in the last 50 years. Problem with the anti-american sentiment here is that the liberals control the media and despite them being minority pretends to be our spokesperson. For instance they think Kor-US FTA is american imperialism when in fact majority of the Koreans think it's good on almost all polls and survey conducted. S.Koreans for most part are pro USA, pro western (including EU) and has been that way since forever.
Thanks for your post - a wealth of good information in there.
I would imagine (a speculation more or less) that Koreans in general (myself included) have negativity towards Japanese government and not so much towards the Japanese people themselves. (Japanese government) At least when it comes to the aftermath of the war-crimes that took place during WW2.
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
Ecstatica - don't comment on what you don't know. Japan investing heavily in Korea? Please.
And SKilledbob - no, Japanese government never did the honorable thing and formally apologize to Korea. They keep on making excuses here and there, thus the reason for the Korean government recently demanding an official, formal apologies from the Japanese government.
Japanese government invested in what satisfied their self-interests, don't make it sound like Korea became what it is today because of Japan.
welcome to international relations. ie. the real world. if you expect anything more then you sir are a fool. why would ANY country act if the consequences of said actions didnt align with their agenda, one could say the same thing about korea, or any other country.
so basically all I've gathered from this thread is that by being white and thin, and dressing decently. You have have Korean women going after you? bearing in mind your at least decently looking?
So I guess its time for me to go to a gym and buy some new clothes then. Yep, I think thats what I'll do.
From what I have seen, I have seen a lot of shallowness in Koreans, at least the esports scene isn't as bad. I've always been greeted with nothing more than kindness. but I am guessing general Korean society is a bit different. I guess I've been a little sheltered though here and have not had to experience Korean culture alone.
Though I have been called handsome a few times by other Korean men. Should I take that as a compliment or an insult I've always wondered?
On March 22 2012 16:07 masterbreti wrote: wait wait......
so basically all I've gathered from this thread is that by being white and thin, and dressing decently. You have have Korean women going after you? bearing in mind your at least decently looking?
So I guess its time for me to go to a gym and buy some new clothes then. Yep, I think thats what I'll do.
From what I have seen, I have seen a lot of shallowness in Koreans, at least the esports scene isn't as bad. I've always been greeted with nothing more than kindness. but I am guessing general Korean society is a bit different. I guess I've been a little sheltered though here and have not had to experience Korean culture alone.
Though I have been called handsome a few times by other Korean men. Should I take that as a compliment or an insult I've always wondered?
How could being called handsome ever be an insult?
On March 22 2012 09:12 LuciferSC wrote: You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Actually, that's not true - the United States was invaded during the War of 1812, by British Canada and by British forces. During the war, they captured the US capital and set fire to the White House - fortunately, a hurricane may have been in the neighborhood and prevented the widespread destruction of DC. (I can't count the Civil War as an "invasion", although it is by far the more memorable war and also one of the bloodiest.) However, you're correct in a sense that the US has never suffered the brutality of an invasion such the ones the Japanese engaged in prior to and during World War II. Not yet, at least. (Who knows what will happen in the future?)
Of course, if you talk to some Native Americans (aka "Indians"), they may disagree. If you can find any, and they are willing to talk to you. (Even though some tribes have been doing better lately.)
On March 22 2012 16:07 masterbreti wrote: Though I have been called handsome a few times by other Korean men. Should I take that as a compliment or an insult I've always wondered?
My korean guide says this happens often and you shouldn't be disturbed by it. Unless you were looking absolutely terrible I'd consider it as a simple nice gesture, along the lines of "looks like you're doing fine", I guess.
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
Ecstatica - don't comment on what you don't know. Japan investing heavily in Korea? Please.
And SKilledbob - no, Japanese government never did the honorable thing and formally apologize to Korea. They keep on making excuses here and there, thus the reason for the Korean government recently demanding an official, formal apologies from the Japanese government.
Japanese government invested in what satisfied their self-interests, don't make it sound like Korea became what it is today because of Japan.
welcome to international relations. ie. the real world. if you expect anything more then you sir are a fool. why would ANY country act if the consequences of said actions didnt align with their agenda, one could say the same thing about korea, or any other country.
Exactly my notion - so wouldn't you feel that it's foolish to claim that one nation did something simply for another nation's sake?
On March 22 2012 09:12 LuciferSC wrote: You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Actually, that's not true - the United States was invaded during the War of 1812, by British Canada and by British forces.
Holy revisionist history, Batman. It's not called an invasion when you declare war, advance into another country, and then get pushed back into your own.
On March 22 2012 09:12 LuciferSC wrote: You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Actually, that's not true - the United States was invaded during the War of 1812, by British Canada and by British forces.
Holy revisionist history, Batman. It's not called an invasion when you declare war, advance into another country, and then get pushed back into your own.
Are we really going to dredge up nationalist sentiment from 200 years ago??
Also, for the record British impressement of American citizens into service in the British Navy against their will is what started the war.
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
There is war and then there are war crimes. I don't like weighing lives against each other so to say, but decades of harsh colonial rule and systematic attempts to abuse and disparage a nation of people don't really seem to compare with just under 4 years of war which by and large didn't take place on U.S. soil. Also, don't straw man by saying it's like asking Mongolians to apologizes for the crimes of Ghengis Khan. Right now children of those who lived through the Japanese occupation of Korea are still alive and it clearly is still embedded in the consciousness of the country. There is nothing wrong with it and if anyone is going to endure anything like that imo they have every right to be angry when there are no reprisals or apologies. Sure with time it tensions should be expected to ease but as Americans who by and large really haven't endured anything similar who are we to tell another nation to "be the bigger man"? [insert callous argument about how we took 9/11 and basically used it as a justification to rape and plunder nations]
Alright, the Genghis Khan example is a bit wonky I'll admit that. But I think the point is still accurate. Did Europe ever apologize for getting the US involved in WWI? Did France ever apologize to Germany for the Treaty of Versaille? Did Europe ever pay back a single cent of the millions upon millions of dollars we gave them to rebuild following WWII? (after being sucked into one of their wars AGAIN)
At some point history needs to be regarded as just that: history. Holding grudges for things that happened decades ago by another generation is rediculous.
Hey, that is a very demotivational information for someone who is learning korean. It is not that I did not know that, but not to that extent. A question for koreans visiting this thread. I'd like to know more about the good side of the korean culture (excluding pop culture) i.e. literature, philosophy, classical music, drama plays. Do koreans have those? For example, I could always name a few authors who can be the reason for someone to learn an european language, but I hardly can think of any when it comes to korean. Korean language is awesome by itself, but when you know there are some amazing things awaiting for you to be able to read them, it's much better for learning purposes. Help?
On March 22 2012 09:12 LuciferSC wrote: You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Actually, that's not true - the United States was invaded during the War of 1812, by British Canada and by British forces.
Holy revisionist history, Batman. It's not called an invasion when you declare war, advance into another country, and then get pushed back into your own.
Are we really going to dredge up nationalist sentiment from 200 years ago??
Also, for the record British impressement of American citizens into service in the British Navy against their will is what started the war.
On March 22 2012 03:54 TheToast wrote: As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
You do not understand because for one, US was never invaded - it obviously makes a huge difference. And number two, it's because of the intentional brutality done against Korean cultural values and pride. And also the fact that Japanese government has been very sly about their wrong-doings, and furthering their crime (unethical deeds) by setting up their national curriculum with altered history to cover-up their wrong-doings, and never being honorable and accepting and apologizing for their wrongs.
It is that slyness that Koreans recent and look-down upon.
Technically Alaska was invaded. Yes, no major population centers were ever occupied. But we still lost something like 100,000 very young men in the war, not to mention countless civilians in Pearl Harbor and the merchant marine fleet. And that's not counting the thousands of terribly maimed and injured. The US wasn't exactly untouched by the Pacific War.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. I'm aware that Japan has played a bit of revisionist history, but so do all countries. For decades in the US, Native Americans were relegated to being generic bad guy goons in movies and on TV, there are even still people in this country today who believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant (despite the fact that the South started the war...). No one ever wants to accept that their ancestors were horrible people or did horrible things, so quite often history is looked at through rose colored glasses.
But most of that WW2 generation is gone now, few remain in Japan or the US. In a way, asking Japan to apologize and make amends for their actions in WW2 is like asking the Mongolian government to apologize for the actions of Genghis Khan. Current Mongolians had nothing to do with the actions of their ancestors.
It's not like Japan wasn't punished for what they did. At the end of the war something like over 3 million Japanese were dead, most of their large cities were completely and totally destroyed, they endured nuclear horror, and to top it all off they were forced to accept a constitution essentially written by the United States.
I'm not going to try to argue that it's moral for the Japanese PM to visit Yasukuni Shrine, but at some point you have to shrug your shoulders and realize it doesn't really matter. Japan essentially has no armed forces and is to this day still (in some ways) occupied by the US military.
There is war and then there are war crimes. I don't like weighing lives against each other so to say, but decades of harsh colonial rule and systematic attempts to abuse and disparage a nation of people don't really seem to compare with just under 4 years of war which by and large didn't take place on U.S. soil. Also, don't straw man by saying it's like asking Mongolians to apologizes for the crimes of Ghengis Khan. Right now children of those who lived through the Japanese occupation of Korea are still alive and it clearly is still embedded in the consciousness of the country. There is nothing wrong with it and if anyone is going to endure anything like that imo they have every right to be angry when there are no reprisals or apologies. Sure with time it tensions should be expected to ease but as Americans who by and large really haven't endured anything similar who are we to tell another nation to "be the bigger man"? [insert callous argument about how we took 9/11 and basically used it as a justification to rape and plunder nations]
Alright, the Genghis Khan example is a bit wonky I'll admit that. But I think the point is still accurate. Did Europe ever apologize for getting the US involved in WWI? Did France ever apologize to Germany for the Treaty of Versaille? Did Europe ever pay back a single cent of the millions upon millions of dollars we gave them to rebuild following WWII? (after being sucked into one of their wars AGAIN)
At some point history needs to be regarded as just that: history. Holding grudges for things that happened decades ago by another generation is rediculous.
Well, according to Chinese (and probably Korean, too) historians, Japan's occupation is comparable in brutality to the Holocaust. According to Japanese historians and government, none of those cruel things ever happened. (Of course, the truth is probably somewhere in between, close to the Chinese sentiment but not quite there)
You still have public condemnations of Holocaust deniers, Nazi and its insignia are still illegal in Germany and taboo in most of the world, and I don't think such memories are going away for generations to come. What's more, Nazi murderers are tried and punished whereas a lot of the Japanese war criminals went on their merry way and are now resting in the Yasukuni Shrine. We hold that grudge because the Japanese army committed inhumane and obscene acts during WWII (and before) but deny it and even go as far as to provoke our collective national pains by visiting the aforementioned Shrine and openly denying events like the Rape of Nanking. We only feel anger and pain and fury when those things happen, regardless of how long ago it happened, and whether Americans deem it ridiculous or not.
That said, the Chinese government does tend to go along with the populist nationalist sentiment sometimes in their propaganda. You'd see tons of resistance-themed TV series on Chinese TV at any given time, and most of them do not portray Japanese occupiers in even a balanced and neutral light. The news anchors still give us reminders on anniversaries of important dates like 18th Sept, and our Ministry of Foreign Affairs puts some strong words together history is denied.
However, Chinese people get along fine with Japanese people. It's only the government's ambiguity or downright denial that enrages us. We still <3 their technology, their culture, their country, their food, and yes, their pornstars. + Show Spoiler +
No argument on the internet should be without mentioning porn.
On March 22 2012 23:40 Hemula wrote: Hey, that is a very demotivational information for someone who is learning korean. It is not that I did not know that, but not to that extent. A question for koreans visiting this thread. I'd like to know more about the good side of the korean culture (excluding pop culture) i.e. literature, philosophy, classical music, drama plays. Do koreans have those? For example, I could always name a few authors who can be the reason for someone to learn an european language, but I hardly can think of any when it comes to korean. Korean language is awesome by itself, but when you know there are some amazing things awaiting for you to be able to read them, it's much better for learning purposes. Help?
Of course, this is the trashiest part of our culture; due to the length of our history, our culture is ripe with good literature, music and art. What level of Korean can you read? I would be willing to make a few recommendations based on your level. As for the very basic level, you can probably get started with 전래동화's and 전's like 허생전 홍길동전 임꺽정전 흥부전 춘향전 etc which are pretty much common knowledge stories for Koreans as they read them in elementary/middle school.
For traditional Korean music, 국악 is the broad category encompassing most of our classical music, and it divulges into different genres which I am not too familiar with. There are also songs that were sung and passed down by the general public, such as 동요's, which are songs for children. Look it up on youtube; some keywords you can try are: 국악, 풍악, 판소리.
As for art, I would recommend starting with 수묵화 and 서예, as 수묵화's are an easy transition from the western water paint style art. Both use brushes and this ink called 먹, which is this black bar you powderize(word?) and mix with water to create paint. They are drawn on 한지, which is traditional paper, and the difference is 수묵화 is a style of what you would deem traditional 'art' while 서예 is all calligraphy.
Hope this helped! I am feeling terrible right now because so many people are getting the impression that what I wrote in the OP defines all of Korean society, while in reality it's really just one facet (and the most superficial one at that) of our beautiful culture.
On March 22 2012 22:49 TheToast wrote: At some point history needs to be regarded as just that: history. Holding grudges for things that happened decades ago by another generation is rediculous.
I won't pretend to be well-versed in Israeli history, but if I'm not mistaken, one of the roots of the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians now can be essentially traced back to the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian deportations of the then-Israel and Judah back in the first-millennium BCE. History's most interesting, IMO, when you can still see the effects of actions taken thousands of years ago. :B
Anyways, I don't think it's healthy for relations between governments to mar the relations between people who had nothing to do with their governments' actions. Hate the people in charge, go ahead -- god, we do that enough to our own country's leaders; it seems that plenty of Americans hated Bush during his administration, and plenty hate Obama now, without even counting how many people hate them world-wide -- but if someone actually hates Japanese people just because they happen to be Japanese and omg they're the same race as the people who invaded us!!1!, that's just (obviously) being racist.
Don't feel bad, some people have trouble understanding how multifaceted cultures are and can't make the distinction between general information and generalizations.
I found the OP extremely informative, and not in a bad way. You're explanation of Koreans "doing everything the same, but with tiny upmanships" actually explains a lot of phenomena in Korea, even outside the world of fashion.
On March 22 2012 22:49 TheToast wrote: At some point history needs to be regarded as just that: history. Holding grudges for things that happened decades ago by another generation is rediculous.
I won't pretend to be well-versed in Israeli history, but if I'm not mistaken, one of the roots of the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians now can be essentially traced back to the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian deportations of the then-Israel and Judah back in the first-millennium BCE. History's most interesting, IMO, when you can still see the effects of actions taken thousands of years ago. :B
Anyways, I don't think it's healthy for relations between governments to mar the relations between people who had nothing to do with their governments' actions. Hate the people in charge, go ahead -- god, we do that enough to our own country's leaders; it seems that plenty of Americans hated Bush during his administration, and plenty hate Obama now, without even counting how many people hate them world-wide -- but if someone actually hates Japanese people just because they happen to be Japanese and omg they're the same race as the people who invaded us!!1!, that's just (obviously) being racist.
I agree with what you said, it would be foolish to hate on a Japanese individual just because he is Japanese. However, there are ill feelings towards the nation as a whole, and that won't go away for another while. Somebody earlier mentioned something about 9/11, and it's the most relevant example to Americans I can think of, I guess, except magnified by 1000 times. Imagine if Bin Laden had the Afghan government's full support, and he decided to crash planes into tall buildings all across our nation for 35 years just for shits and giggles, how would you feel about Afghanistan 60 years from now, and what would you tell your grandchildren if they asked you what sort of country Afghanistan is?
1. From what I have noticed from my korean-american and korean-canadian friends, they seem to have mostly liberal views. However, due to being mostly exposed to what I would term to be the 'banana culture' of the Americas (I would define this as having yellow skin on the outside, but white on the inside), their views don't seem to directly reflect those of all-korean descent. I would go as far to say that these mostly liberal views could encompass most asian-americans and asian-canadians. When I had visited my cousins who lived in Hong Kong/Macau, they were much more conservative - and often my friends in those regions would tell me "we don't think like the way you white people (as a joke) do." Now my question is, do native koreans and their american/canadian counterparts feel the same way/share the same views as each other, or was I correct on the 'different cultural exposure?'
2. It is understandable that the older population (specifically the ones who have lived through the last century's wars) shared a deep hatred for Japan, and to a lesser extent, the Chinese. But for the younger crowd, are the views shared by your elders often forced on you, or are you relatively free to make up your mind for yourself? My grandparents rather dislike the Japanese because of the WW2 events that had occurred in China when they lived there, but my aunts/uncles/parents and subsequent offspring don't share the same views. For us (the younger crowd), we judge people by what they do (most of the time) rather than where they're from or what nationality they are.
I guess that would depend on what you think the face of a nation is. I would probably say some bad things about the Afghan gvmt and I may even generalize and say, "Afghanistan" instead of pointing out that it is just the gvmt and supporters of Bin Laden I'm mad at, but I certainly wouldn't say anything about Afghans (as a people), if that makes sense.
On March 23 2012 02:00 Pulselol wrote: A couple questions from a chinese-canadian:
1. From what I have noticed from my korean-american and korean-canadian friends, they seem to have mostly liberal views. However, due to being mostly exposed to what I would term to be the 'banana culture' of the Americas (I would define this as having yellow skin on the outside, but white on the inside), their views don't seem to directly reflect those of all-korean descent. I would go as far to say that these mostly liberal views could encompass most asian-americans and asian-canadians. When I had visited my cousins who lived in Hong Kong/Macau, they were much more conservative - and often my friends in those regions would tell me "we don't think like the way you white people (as a joke) do." Now my question is, do native koreans and their american/canadian counterparts feel the same way as each other?
2. It is understandable that the older population (specifically the ones who have lived through the last century's wars) shared a deep hatred for Japan, and to a lesser extent, the Chinese. But for the younger crowd, are the views shared by your elders often forced on you, or are you relatively free to make up your mind for yourself? My grandparents rather dislike the Japanese because of the WW2 events that had occurred in China when they lived there, but my aunts/uncles/parents and subsequent offspring don't share the same views. For us (the younger crowd), we judge people by what they do (most of the time) rather than where they're from or what nationality they are.
1. no
2. you are free to make up your mind, but the hatred runs so deep in our culture you are kind of brainwashed by it to a small extent. For example, when there is a sports game between Korea and Japan, whether it's soccer, baseball, whatever, it's automatically labeled as 한일전 (=Korea vs Japan match), the media focuses on the game moreso than it does on others, you hear the players saying stuff like "If I had to choose one match to blow, this would not be it," and you walk into a bar during the game and hear drunk people yelling shit like "DAMN JAPANESE MONKEYS/쪽바리's, FUCK EM UP!" while everybody cheers on. That's just one example. It's also hard not to hate them when you learn about it in school, as the Japanese occupation left a very big scar on Korea's modern history.
Here's a video of what happens if you cheer for Japan in a 한일전, although the actor was really asking for it lol. He got balls of steel, not many people (nor I) would have the courage to do that.
Something else that I feel is relevant to the Korea-Japanese (and, to a lesser extent, even the Chinese-Japanese) conflict is that unlike many of the western powers, Korea never really got the pleasure or national pride of "winning" in the end. America defeated Japan, not Korea, and America called all the shots in Japan after the war, not Korea. There wasn't the same sort of closure for Koreans as there were for many Europeans with the Numerberg trails, or for Americans with the Japanese occupation.
Instead, Korea jumped out of one war and into another war, and remained a dirt-poor country for years after Japan already started it's own economic miracle. This is all pretty hurtful for national pride.
This doesn't justify a lot of the hate directed towards Japan these days (and the hate, although directly more at the government than its citizens, is fairly universal and deep-rooted. I often have young korean children tell me how much they hate Japan), however it does help explain why there's such a huge difference between attitudes towards Germany and attitudes towards Japan.
On March 22 2012 23:40 Hemula wrote: Hey, that is a very demotivational information for someone who is learning korean. It is not that I did not know that, but not to that extent. A question for koreans visiting this thread. I'd like to know more about the good side of the korean culture (excluding pop culture) i.e. literature, philosophy, classical music, drama plays. Do koreans have those? For example, I could always name a few authors who can be the reason for someone to learn an european language, but I hardly can think of any when it comes to korean. Korean language is awesome by itself, but when you know there are some amazing things awaiting for you to be able to read them, it's much better for learning purposes. Help?
Of course, this is the trashiest part of our culture; due to the length of our history, our culture is ripe with good literature, music and art. What level of Korean can you read? I would be willing to make a few recommendations based on your level. As for the very basic level, you can probably get started with 전래동화's and 전's like 허생전 홍길동전 임꺽정전 흥부전 춘향전 etc which are pretty much common knowledge stories for Koreans as they read them in elementary/middle school.
For traditional Korean music, 국악 is the broad category encompassing most of our classical music, and it divulges into different genres which I am not too familiar with. There are also songs that were sung and passed down by the general public, such as 동요's, which are songs for children. Look it up on youtube; some keywords you can try are: 국악, 풍악, 판소리.
As for art, I would recommend starting with 수묵화 and 서예, as 수묵화's are an easy transition from the western water paint style art. Both use brushes and this ink called 먹, which is this black bar you powderize(word?) and mix with water to create paint. They are drawn on 한지, which is traditional paper, and the difference is 수묵화 is a style of what you would deem traditional 'art' while 서예 is all calligraphy.
Hope this helped! I am feeling terrible right now because so many people are getting the impression that what I wrote in the OP defines all of Korean society, while in reality it's really just one facet (and the most superficial one at that) of our beautiful culture.
Wow, thank you very much, I will definetely check out all the things you mentioned. My korean is on a somewhat basic level, but I am studying it for more than one and a half years already so my grammar knowledge is quite good while my vocabulary is very poor. Of course it is not good enough to read books, though I am trying... But now I feel much better, and I am looking forward to mastering korean. ^^
Man, and I thought the conformity-mentality and the superficiality of society was already bad enough in Europe and the U.S. but this ... is just disturbing and makes me really sad, especially considering that this might very well be one of the ways that society is heading towards worldwide :'( Also makes me kinda wonder why progaming became so much more accepted in Korea and not, say, Europe, as it really is one of the professions that bases on and represents the will for nonconformity.
On March 20 2012 11:45 JunkkaGom wrote: It's like old Korean saying; the food that looks good also tastes good. To hell with western "don't judge the book by its cover" crap.
nice one john. condemning the cultural believes of 90% of your viewers.
On March 20 2012 11:45 JunkkaGom wrote: It's like old Korean saying; the food that looks good also tastes good. To hell with western "don't judge the book by its cover" crap.
nice one john. condemning the cultural believes of 90% of your viewers.
Yeah, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
On March 23 2012 02:00 Pulselol wrote: A couple questions from a chinese-canadian:
1. From what I have noticed from my korean-american and korean-canadian friends, they seem to have mostly liberal views. However, due to being mostly exposed to what I would term to be the 'banana culture' of the Americas (I would define this as having yellow skin on the outside, but white on the inside), their views don't seem to directly reflect those of all-korean descent. I would go as far to say that these mostly liberal views could encompass most asian-americans and asian-canadians. When I had visited my cousins who lived in Hong Kong/Macau, they were much more conservative - and often my friends in those regions would tell me "we don't think like the way you white people (as a joke) do." Now my question is, do native koreans and their american/canadian counterparts feel the same way as each other?
2. It is understandable that the older population (specifically the ones who have lived through the last century's wars) shared a deep hatred for Japan, and to a lesser extent, the Chinese. But for the younger crowd, are the views shared by your elders often forced on you, or are you relatively free to make up your mind for yourself? My grandparents rather dislike the Japanese because of the WW2 events that had occurred in China when they lived there, but my aunts/uncles/parents and subsequent offspring don't share the same views. For us (the younger crowd), we judge people by what they do (most of the time) rather than where they're from or what nationality they are.
1. no
2. you are free to make up your mind, but the hatred runs so deep in our culture you are kind of brainwashed by it to a small extent. For example, when there is a sports game between Korea and Japan, whether it's soccer, baseball, whatever, it's automatically labeled as 한일전 (=Korea vs Japan match), the media focuses on the game moreso than it does on others, you hear the players saying stuff like "If I had to choose one match to blow, this would not be it," and you walk into a bar during the game and hear drunk people yelling shit like "DAMN JAPANESE MONKEYS/쪽바리's, FUCK EM UP!" while everybody cheers on. That's just one example. It's also hard not to hate them when you learn about it in school, as the Japanese occupation left a very big scar on Korea's modern history.
Here's a video of what happens if you cheer for Japan in a 한일전, although the actor was really asking for it lol. He got balls of steel, not many people (nor I) would have the courage to do that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Pu79id3Jc
To be honest, the sports hatred thing seems pretty standard..
That actually made me kinda sad to read. There are plenty of superficial people in denmark, but wow... korea sounds like one cruel society...
Kinda makes me wounder if that doesn't effect the level of creative thinking or how many entrepreneurs korea spawns. With that much mob-mentality it's gotte be hard to not "fit in" or to try something different.
God, feel like people would hate my guts in korea ^^
The response to this wondrous post has been mostly pathetic, and disheartening.
All the replies are either "hey how would I fit in with these standards lolol gonna get me some Korean girlz" or "Wow Korea is fucked up".
All the OP has done is distill a subset of the idiosyncracies of a country's culture into an easily digested package. That's an awesome thing, but you could do it for any country. There's probably the same thing written in Korean somewhere with a whole lot of Koreans getting all shocked about certain facts of America, or wherever. And "lolol how do I get a white girl" too I'm sure.
OP, well done. Greatest majority of the rest of TL, have a good hard look at yourselves.
On March 20 2012 11:45 JunkkaGom wrote: It's like old Korean saying; the food that looks good also tastes good. To hell with western "don't judge the book by its cover" crap.
nice one john. condemning the cultural believes of 90% of your viewers.
Yeah, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
On March 23 2012 02:00 Pulselol wrote: A couple questions from a chinese-canadian:
1. From what I have noticed from my korean-american and korean-canadian friends, they seem to have mostly liberal views. However, due to being mostly exposed to what I would term to be the 'banana culture' of the Americas (I would define this as having yellow skin on the outside, but white on the inside), their views don't seem to directly reflect those of all-korean descent. I would go as far to say that these mostly liberal views could encompass most asian-americans and asian-canadians. When I had visited my cousins who lived in Hong Kong/Macau, they were much more conservative - and often my friends in those regions would tell me "we don't think like the way you white people (as a joke) do." Now my question is, do native koreans and their american/canadian counterparts feel the same way as each other?
2. It is understandable that the older population (specifically the ones who have lived through the last century's wars) shared a deep hatred for Japan, and to a lesser extent, the Chinese. But for the younger crowd, are the views shared by your elders often forced on you, or are you relatively free to make up your mind for yourself? My grandparents rather dislike the Japanese because of the WW2 events that had occurred in China when they lived there, but my aunts/uncles/parents and subsequent offspring don't share the same views. For us (the younger crowd), we judge people by what they do (most of the time) rather than where they're from or what nationality they are.
1. no
2. you are free to make up your mind, but the hatred runs so deep in our culture you are kind of brainwashed by it to a small extent. For example, when there is a sports game between Korea and Japan, whether it's soccer, baseball, whatever, it's automatically labeled as 한일전 (=Korea vs Japan match), the media focuses on the game moreso than it does on others, you hear the players saying stuff like "If I had to choose one match to blow, this would not be it," and you walk into a bar during the game and hear drunk people yelling shit like "DAMN JAPANESE MONKEYS/쪽바리's, FUCK EM UP!" while everybody cheers on. That's just one example. It's also hard not to hate them when you learn about it in school, as the Japanese occupation left a very big scar on Korea's modern history.
Here's a video of what happens if you cheer for Japan in a 한일전, although the actor was really asking for it lol. He got balls of steel, not many people (nor I) would have the courage to do that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Pu79id3Jc
Sorry for being on your back all the time but playing the devil's advocate here.
This way the readers will get to see both sides of the story and get a better picture of S.Korea as a whole and not the one-sided biased view. Don't get me wrong I like you and you make some good points but the Korean society is far more complicated than the black and white picture you often portray us.
Start from the 2:57 mark and you see two Japanese girls marching down the street in the center of Seoul while flashing the WWII rising sun flag and you'll notice how they aren't getting much attention from the crowd. And this is far worse than what that Korean guy did in your video. This to me is how average Koreans would likely react to such situation than the hyperbole you posted above.
My grudge with the left wing spectrum in our country is that not only they are the loudest but despite being the absolute minority they think they own this place and they talk as if they are the true representative of our country. (this isn't directed to you but the korean liberals in general ) Conservatives who make the majority in S.Korea are pragmatist. If they get beat by a bully they don't go begging the bully for an apology or tell on the teacher. They hit the gym, work out, and try to become stronger than the bully. It's what transformed our country from one of the poorest country in Asia to one of the richest in a span of 50 years. I won't make the same mistake and say this is all there is to it but we are very diverse when it comes to opinions. I along with many Koreans have moved on and you won't find that much of the deep hatred you keep insisting we have toward the Japanese.
Edit: I was going way off-topic. Trimmed it a little bit
On March 23 2012 00:29 HejaBVB wrote: Koreans are CRAZY FREAKS!
Thanks, o Aryan child.
jk
I still cannot understand why Koreans obsess over face size. People disliked being next to me in class photos because my face was "small." What trivialities. . .
That being said, too many people are misunderstanding the extent of this cultural generalization. It's true that such idiosyncrasies pervade much of contemporary Korean society, but it is by no means a full definition. You can draw a parallels between each hemisphere's ways of viewing the other. Just as non-Asians see Asiatic countries as pedagogic and immutably strict, other nationalities see Americans as sluts and whores. While this is certainly true for certain demographics, etc., it would be hysterical to deem every American as prostitutes.
That explains when I was watching a Korean drama with my girlfriend why the main character (hot male) says to his lover (average looking), "You are not very pretty, but I love you anyway." And the girl responds with, "OMG you love me?!" In more or less words, needless to say if a similar conversation occurred in the US, well...
On March 23 2012 13:39 justinpal wrote: That explains when I was watching a Korean drama with my girlfriend why the main character (hot male) says to his lover (average looking), "You are not very pretty, but I love you anyway." And the girl responds with, "OMG you love me?!" In more or less words, needless to say if a similar conversation occurred in the US, well...
On March 23 2012 13:18 Turbovolver wrote: The response to this wondrous post has been mostly pathetic, and disheartening.
All the replies are either "hey how would I fit in with these standards lolol gonna get me some Korean girlz" or "Wow Korea is fucked up".
All the OP has done is distill a subset of the idiosyncracies of a country's culture into an easily digested package. That's an awesome thing, but you could do it for any country. There's probably the same thing written in Korean somewhere with a whole lot of Koreans getting all shocked about certain facts of America, or wherever. And "lolol how do I get a white girl" too I'm sure.
OP, well done. Greatest majority of the rest of TL, have a good hard look at yourselves.
I feel like you don't understand the reason for the negative as well as more constructive responses. Not gonna generalise for everybody here, but I think many may unconsciously have the same in mind that I have: I can neither find a historical reason nor a rational reasoning working in modern times to explain the validity or even support this kind of an attitude that the OP has portrayed.
Whereas I can explain logically where the central european cultural beliefs come from and how they would apply to modern times, I cannot do the same for this aspect of Korean culture because the OP did only list a number of issues, but he did not try to explain where they come from or what the underlining beliefs are (once again, working for modern times) that these issues are originating from and there is not nearly enough info in the internet. The closest one that I have found is this article: http://nanoramo.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/korean-style-ee-–-western-essentialism-and-asian-kitsch/
On March 23 2012 02:04 babylon wrote: I guess that would depend on what you think the face of a nation is. I would probably say some bad things about the Afghan gvmt and I may even generalize and say, "Afghanistan" instead of pointing out that it is just the gvmt and supporters of Bin Laden I'm mad at, but I certainly wouldn't say anything about Afghans (as a people), if that makes sense.
What about the people who just don't care then? or don't bother to express their discontent with the government's action? in a way, that would be condoning the government's action because the government is elected by the people and if they do not approve of a certain action, the government won't behave in such a way. If a politician says something inappropriate to offend people of other countries and no reprehension is given within the politician's country, guess how the offended people will react not just to that politician but to that silent majority.
That was an incredibly interesting read... I mean, I figured that a lot of things were more strict in South Korea, but I had no idea it had become a "You MUST have this or this and get this or that surgery even to just fit in" mentality.
No wonder the Koreans look so damn good all the time - Worth it? Not sure, but it definitely pays off.
On March 23 2012 02:04 babylon wrote: I guess that would depend on what you think the face of a nation is. I would probably say some bad things about the Afghan gvmt and I may even generalize and say, "Afghanistan" instead of pointing out that it is just the gvmt and supporters of Bin Laden I'm mad at, but I certainly wouldn't say anything about Afghans (as a people), if that makes sense.
What about the people who just don't care then? or don't bother to express their discontent with the government's action? in a way, that would be condoning the government's action because the government is elected by the people and if they do not approve of a certain action, the government won't behave in such a way. If a politician says something inappropriate to offend people of other countries and no reprehension is given within the politician's country, guess how the offended people will react not just to that politician but to that silent majority.
Lol, the rest of the world doesn't quite operate like that. Just because America does doesn't mean anything, and especially if we're talking about the Afghan "democratic elections." The one in 2004 had enough controversy surrounding it, and the election of 2009 managed to be even worse. Can we say election fraud?
Besides, even in America, have you never voted for someone and then had them do something you don't approve of, and yet the most you can do is send letters to your rep and, of course, your rep does nothing? Good times, good times. Much worse to condemn an entire people for the actions of a few. A lot of the times, the "silent majority" will still be "silent" even if the complete opposite actions are taken by the government, esp. in countries like Afghanistan.
Hi there OP, good that you share this with all of us. One small thing I'd like to point out is that my gf mentioned to me BB cream stands for "blemish balm" and not bobbi brown haha. Small nitpicking, but thought I'd just mention it to help clear it up. Apparently it's some sort of foundation (make up) which fills your pores and makes your skin look smooth.
I think the culture of superficiality has its own pros and cons. In my opinion I don't really approve of it, and would like my children to love and accept themselves and not strive to try to fix something that isn't broken (though I guess vanity is human nature). I suppose it helps a lot of industry where it matters, but sometimes my heart breaks for singers like k.will who won't show his own face in his own MV when there's honestly nothing wrong with the way he looks. That's just my opinion though.
On March 23 2012 02:07 TheKwas wrote: Something else that I feel is relevant to the Korea-Japanese (and, to a lesser extent, even the Chinese-Japanese) conflict is that unlike many of the western powers, Korea never really got the pleasure or national pride of "winning" in the end. America defeated Japan, not Korea, and America called all the shots in Japan after the war, not Korea. There wasn't the same sort of closure for Koreans as there were for many Europeans with the Numerberg trails, or for Americans with the Japanese occupation.
Instead, Korea jumped out of one war and into another war, and remained a dirt-poor country for years after Japan already started it's own economic miracle. This is all pretty hurtful for national pride.
This doesn't justify a lot of the hate directed towards Japan these days (and the hate, although directly more at the government than its citizens, is fairly universal and deep-rooted. I often have young korean children tell me how much they hate Japan), however it does help explain why there's such a huge difference between attitudes towards Germany and attitudes towards Japan.
It's more to it than that. The biggest difference between those two countries is that one to this day is deeply ashamed of its atrocities, while the other openly worships its war heroes and sponsors school textbooks glorifying/justifying its deeds. It also doesn't help that it constantly claims the island of Dokdo to be its territory.
Try to imagine if Merckel went to the burial sites of nazi war criminals who killed millions of innocents and started bowing and putting down flowers in an official event.
Statements by Japanese politicians on colonial rule
Since the 1950s, many prominent politicians and officials in Japan have made statements on Japanese colonial rule in Korea which created outrage and led to diplomatic scandals in Korean-Japanese relations. The statements have led to anti-Japanese sentiments among Koreans, and a widespread perception that Japanese apologies for colonial rules have been insincere.[16][17][18][19]
During the talks between Japan and Korea in 1953, Kubota Kanichiro (久保田貫一郞), one of Japanese representatives, stated that "Japanese colonial rule was beneficial to Korea...Korea would have been colonized by other countries anyway, which would have led to harsher rules than Japanese rules." This remark is considered by Koreans as the first reckless statement by Japanese politicians on colonial rules on Korea.[20]
In 1997, Abe Shinzo (安倍晋三), an ex-Prime Minister of Japan, stated that "Many so-called victims of comfort women system are liars...prostitution was ordinary behavior in Korea because the country had many brothels." [21]
On May 31, 2003, Aso Taro (麻生太郎), another ex-Prime Minister of Japan, stated that "the change to Japanese name (創氏改名) during Japanese colonial rule was what Koreans wanted." [22]
On October 28, 2003, Ishihara Shintaro (石原愼太郞), Governor of Tokyo stated that "The annexation of Korea and Japan was Koreans' choice...the ones to be blamed are the ancestors of Koreans".[16]
In 2007, Shimomura Hakubun (下村博文), Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japanese government, stated that "The comfort women system existed, but I believe it was because Korean parents sold their daughters at that time." [17]
On March 27, 2010, in the centennial of Japan-Korean annexation, Edano Yukio (枝野幸男), Japanese Minister of State for Government Revitalization, stated that "The invasion and colonization and China and Korea was historically inevitable...since China and Korea could not modernize themselves."[18]
Back to the topic though, I've been out of touch with Korean culture for a full decade and it's been very informative of what has (and mostly has not) changed in terms of fashion/looks.
This article is partially true and partially false. Everything you mentioned does exist, but the examples you use are obviously meant for shock-and-awe purposes and are not true to the average. The global statements you make about Korean culture are borderline racist - you cannot encompass an entire race in such a way, even if you are a member of that race. Virtually everything you mentioned exists in every culture in one way or another - stating them in such a polarizing fashion is magnifying flaws, which can be done with any culture.
You had a lot of potential to make this article fair and unbiased, but to me it sounds like the complaining of someone who was butthurt by society. I would expect something like this from an emo high-school girl talking about the Plastics in "Mean Girls".
Statements by Japanese politicians on colonial rule
Since the 1950s, many prominent politicians and officials in Japan have made statements on Japanese colonial rule in Korea which created outrage and led to diplomatic scandals in Korean-Japanese relations. The statements have led to anti-Japanese sentiments among Koreans, and a widespread perception that Japanese apologies for colonial rules have been insincere.[16][17][18][19]
During the talks between Japan and Korea in 1953, Kubota Kanichiro (久保田貫一郞), one of Japanese representatives, stated that "Japanese colonial rule was beneficial to Korea...Korea would have been colonized by other countries anyway, which would have led to harsher rules than Japanese rules." This remark is considered by Koreans as the first reckless statement by Japanese politicians on colonial rules on Korea.[20]
In 1997, Abe Shinzo (安倍晋三), an ex-Prime Minister of Japan, stated that "Many so-called victims of comfort women system are liars...prostitution was ordinary behavior in Korea because the country had many brothels." [21]
On May 31, 2003, Aso Taro (麻生太郎), another ex-Prime Minister of Japan, stated that "the change to Japanese name (創氏改名) during Japanese colonial rule was what Koreans wanted." [22]
On October 28, 2003, Ishihara Shintaro (石原愼太郞), Governor of Tokyo stated that "The annexation of Korea and Japan was Koreans' choice...the ones to be blamed are the ancestors of Koreans".[16]
In 2007, Shimomura Hakubun (下村博文), Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japanese government, stated that "The comfort women system existed, but I believe it was because Korean parents sold their daughters at that time." [17]
On March 27, 2010, in the centennial of Japan-Korean annexation, Edano Yukio (枝野幸男), Japanese Minister of State for Government Revitalization, stated that "The invasion and colonization and China and Korea was historically inevitable...since China and Korea could not modernize themselves."[18]
Wow that sounds so fucked up. I'm not gonna judge until I know enough, this has really got me motivated to learn more about the history of the countries.
On March 24 2012 05:20 Sowexly wrote: I keep quite; mind myself and dress casual as fuck, how would I fair on my visit?
There is only one way to know & that would be to visit.
You could be the most handsome, sleek & clean cut individual in the world and have a terrible time, bumping into the wrong people, going into the wrong places at the wrong times etc. or you could be an overweight, don't care about my looks at all guy, meet the most amazing people ever & have an amazing time. This post is great but honestly it does not apply to anyone who is just visiting because why would Koreans ever expect tourists and visitors to conform to every detail of Korean culture especially something as shallow as your appearance. Just shower and put on a smile and you will have a good time. Don't worry, be happy.
damn that made me uncomfortable. the obsession with surgery...really feel sorry for korean kids having to live up to expectations. add that to the crazy school hours, and im glad i wasnt born there
I was literally dancing to the Day9 trumpets just to scrub away my imagination about that jaw line surgery that required sawing it off... Ok there it goes again!! TE TE NE NET TEN!!
On March 23 2012 21:50 AimlessAmoeba wrote: That was an incredibly interesting read... I mean, I figured that a lot of things were more strict in South Korea, but I had no idea it had become a "You MUST have this or this and get this or that surgery even to just fit in" mentality.
No wonder the Koreans look so damn good all the time - Worth it? Not sure, but it definitely pays off.
I don't think so, given that they have to suffer first, and have such low self-confidence to go to a surgeon. It's awesome that someone took his time to write such an article. It's very interesting and jaw-dropping. Humans really are crazy.
I cannot help but wonder if I would be hot in Korea :p 2m tall and a head:body ratio of cirka 1 to 7,5.
Naw all jokes aside, this is a very exciting read. I of course realised to some extent how big of a deal looks really and truly are, even though nobody says it out loud without sounding like a jerk. But wow. The whole sneekers with high heels built in makes so much more sense now that its not "only about the height", but about your actual ratio too... And this explains why not-so-tall people frequently weird me out with their giant heads. o.O
all the fashion and body shape factors you mentioned have been trends worldwide for quite a while now. ideal male body shape is slender but muscular, and female body shapes have been trending towards skinny and fit for ages. likewise, the trend for f/w fashion has always been fitted peacoats/bridgecoats, layering oxford shirts+cardigans/pullovers, slim fit jeans/chinos, either oxfords or chukkas depending on occasion.
I liked your views on cosmetic sugery/makeup though; people who are interested in korean/asian culture often take a eccentrically negative stance towards the subject.
Part of me just wants to dress like crap, and say fuck you to all this superficial bullshit. But, I'm really nice on a personal level, so I don't think I will do that. I've got long hair though, just past shoulders kinna Jon Lennon style.
I'm always very nice to people, and go out of my way with the "please", "thank you" and "sirs", but if someone says anything about the way I dress or look, or my wife, I would quickly start throwing people out windows. No joke. I seriously hope they are not too forward with this "Saying stuff" to other people about the way they look. Otherwise, we will have a great time.
Very illuminating thread. Late to the party but glad to be here. BTW, I live in Taiwan, and looking through the posts above I think that the racism mentioned in east asia is a bit overexaggerated. There is a bit, but usually it never goes beyond joke territory and the usual stereotypes. For example, we refer to the korean plastic surgeries as their planning of a "clone war". + Show Spoiler +
And regardless of our views towards the country itself, all males watch Jap pr0n. All of them.
On March 26 2012 04:47 CursOr wrote: Going on vacation to Korea in about a year.
Part of me just wants to dress like crap, and say fuck you to all this superficial bullshit. But, I'm really nice on a personal level, so I don't think I will do that. I've got long hair though, just past shoulders kinna Jon Lennon style.
I'm always very nice to people, and go out of my way with the "please", "thank you" and "sirs", but if someone says anything about the way I dress or look, or my wife, I would quickly start throwing people out windows. No joke. I seriously hope they are not too forward with this "Saying stuff" to other people about the way they look. Otherwise, we will have a great time.
I think you got a big misconception reading this thread, I doubt people just randomly walk to people, especially foreigners and tell them the are fat dress like shit or should take care of their skin. If you already have korean friends it's probably another story.
Good thread was really informative, I shall link my gf to this, ha.
p.s
link to said north face jacket plz..
***edit***
On March 25 2012 20:54 andyrau wrote: all the fashion and body shape factors you mentioned have been trends worldwide for quite a while now. ideal male body shape is slender but muscular, and female body shapes have been trending towards skinny and fit for ages. likewise, the trend for f/w fashion has always been fitted peacoats/bridgecoats, layering oxford shirts+cardigans/pullovers, slim fit jeans/chinos, either oxfords or chukkas depending on occasion.
I liked your views on cosmetic sugery/makeup though; people who are interested in korean/asian culture often take a eccentrically negative stance towards the subject.
Not entirely true, if you come to Australia, come to a music festival and take off your shirt with your 'muscular' slender male body and 10 inch arms, you will be laughed at.
Don't misunderstand this OP, this is the way Korean culture treats it own, not common for them to hold foreigners to the same standards. They usually look at foreigners with curiousity and intrigue simply because they are something unique and exotic, all the traditional Korean 'look' rules don't usually apply to you. Especially if your hair is naturally any color other than black. You are seen as highly exotic in this case regardless of other factors.
But yeah, don't think that as a foreigner going to Korea you have to worry about being judged on appearance. It's not that way. Mostly they just stereotype you to a common Western celebrity, like I have red hair so they all said "ohhh, chuck norris? You live in Texas, wear big hat, boots?" Also, even for Koreans, the article is talking about standards that exist only in the forefront of fashion culture, the cutting edge being the media and celebrity, it's not like every man woman and child subscribe to these ideals or are influenced by them on a regular basis. Especially outside of Seoul.
And what if you're not korean, but you possess the same light-er skin (i.e. chinese/japanese). Would you be held to the same standards, even though the culture(s) are vastly different? You'd still be "foreign," but yet you're not quite white nor black.
When I lived in Macau/Hong Kong, it was easy for people to mistake any koreans/japanese who lived there and naturally assumed that everybody who had, for the lack of a better word, yellow skin spoke a dialect of chinese. Obviously, there's visual differences between all 3 (chinese/japanese/korean) but when you're in a hurry you'd probably overlook it.
I read about half of the responses in the thread but not all, so sorry if this has been answered already.
Considering your post was entirely about appearance, I was wondering what the ideal "shape" is for women when it comes to curves (breasts and butt). In North America, men generally try to work out, and an athletic build is the preferred look, and for women, thin (slightly fit) with nice curves is the desired ideal. I personally like a really natural look, but its strange to me that the characteristics of beauty for a female didnt include their curves, because that is what most people notice first here. Do big boobs and a nice butt do the same for women as what trap muscles do for guys in the OP, as in make them look "bigger"?
While people (including myself) may be against surgery, I think there's definitely something to be learned (especially here in the US) about making the most of what you have been given. To some extent I think the emphasis on looks portrayed in the OP is just a result of increasing levels of competition in everything. Just as college degrees are necessary for most well-paying jobs now, being well-groomed and well-dressed is table stakes nowadays. Smart, outgoing, financially-secure, caring men aren't in short supply -- in that case, why would you do yourself a disservice by underselling your looks?
Now I can see why some people might aspire toward a different sort of body type than the normal Asian preference, but there's still really no excuse for poorly fitted clothes... For men, dress styles aren't nearly as varied as women's clothing, so more than anything else, the fit really makes the look, regardless of if you're wearing a three-piece suit or a hoodie and jeans.
On March 28 2012 01:09 Focuspants wrote: I read about half of the responses in the thread but not all, so sorry if this has been answered already.
Considering your post was entirely about appearance, I was wondering what the ideal "shape" is for women when it comes to curves (breasts and butt). In North America, men generally try to work out, and an athletic build is the preferred look, and for women, thin (slightly fit) with nice curves is the desired ideal. I personally like a really natural look, but its strange to me that the characteristics of beauty for a female didnt include their curves, because that is what most people notice first here. Do big boobs and a nice butt do the same for women as what trap muscles do for guys in the OP, as in make them look "bigger"?
yes. It may vary on an individual basis but generally a Beyonce-like body would be labeled fat. There are celebrities like 유이 that are hailed for their "curves" when in reality they are just not chopstick skinny. With that said, some curvature is appreciated, like B-cup breasts and a nicely shaped butt, but that's about it.
On March 20 2012 11:45 JunkkaGom wrote: It's like old Korean saying; the food that looks good also tastes good. To hell with western "don't judge the book by its cover" crap.
Why so bm? xD got ya!
But yeah it's true that how the food look and how you put it on the plate has a really big influence on your initial feelings towards it. If it looks yucky it will probably taste yuckier than it really is.
If it looks beautiful then it will probably taste better than it really is.
It's all a matter of balance i guess. Make it taste good, make it look good and make it smell good. ^^ (That would actually be the "perfect" girlfriend).
On March 20 2012 11:45 JunkkaGom wrote: It's like old Korean saying; the food that looks good also tastes good. To hell with western "don't judge the book by its cover" crap.
Why so bm? xD got ya!
But yeah it's true that how the food look and how you put it on the plate has a really big influence on your initial feelings towards it. If it looks yucky it will probably taste yuckier than it really is.
If it looks beautiful then it will probably taste better than it really is.
It's all a matter of balance i guess. Make it taste good, make it look good and make it smell good. ^^ (That would actually be the "perfect" girlfriend).
The plate involved also plays a significant role. If you serve the same food on a heavy and on a light plate, people will consider the one in the heavy plate superior. Way to improve your cooking skills - just don't tell your guests.
On March 26 2012 04:47 CursOr wrote: Going on vacation to Korea in about a year.
Part of me just wants to dress like crap, and say fuck you to all this superficial bullshit. But, I'm really nice on a personal level, so I don't think I will do that. I've got long hair though, just past shoulders kinna Jon Lennon style.
I'm always very nice to people, and go out of my way with the "please", "thank you" and "sirs", but if someone says anything about the way I dress or look, or my wife, I would quickly start throwing people out windows. No joke. I seriously hope they are not too forward with this "Saying stuff" to other people about the way they look. Otherwise, we will have a great time.
So you learn something about the culture of a country you want to visit and the first thing that comes to your mind is doing the opposite just to show your disapproval?
Suppose it would be that way (which it really isn't) and they would be used to telling other people they look good or bad, whatever their reasons are. You come in and expect them to know how to behave around you and treat you that way? Good luck with that attitude.
Obviously nobody expects you to become a Korean just to visit the country but intentionally challenging anyone's culture just because it's different is rude to say the least. How would you like it if I came to visit your country and ran around the streets naked just to prove a point? Superficial bullshit, right?
On March 26 2012 04:47 CursOr wrote: Going on vacation to Korea in about a year.
Part of me just wants to dress like crap, and say fuck you to all this superficial bullshit. But, I'm really nice on a personal level, so I don't think I will do that. I've got long hair though, just past shoulders kinna Jon Lennon style.
I'm always very nice to people, and go out of my way with the "please", "thank you" and "sirs", but if someone says anything about the way I dress or look, or my wife, I would quickly start throwing people out windows. No joke. I seriously hope they are not too forward with this "Saying stuff" to other people about the way they look. Otherwise, we will have a great time.
So you learn something about the culture of a country you want to visit and the first thing that comes to your mind is doing the opposite just to show your disapproval?
Suppose it would be that way (which it really isn't) and they would be used to telling other people they look good or bad, whatever their reasons are. You come in and expect them to know how to behave around you and treat you that way? Good luck with that attitude.
Obviously nobody expects you to become a Korean just to visit the country but intentionally challenging anyone's culture just because it's different is rude to say the least. How would you like it if I came to visit your country and ran around the streets naked just to prove a point? Superficial bullshit, right?
He has a point, you shouldn't go out of your way to learn about something, and then go even further just to piss the people off. Then when people do get pissed, you shouldn't threaten them after you've been acting like a dick the whole time intentionally.
On March 25 2012 20:54 andyrau wrote: all the fashion and body shape factors you mentioned have been trends worldwide for quite a while now. ideal male body shape is slender but muscular, and female body shapes have been trending towards skinny and fit for ages. likewise, the trend for f/w fashion has always been fitted peacoats/bridgecoats, layering oxford shirts+cardigans/pullovers, slim fit jeans/chinos, either oxfords or chukkas depending on occasion.
I liked your views on cosmetic sugery/makeup though; people who are interested in korean/asian culture often take a eccentrically negative stance towards the subject.
Not entirely true, if you come to Australia, come to a music festival and take off your shirt with your 'muscular' slender male body and 10 inch arms, you will be laughed at.
I simply said that Korean fashion is synonymous with global styles and it's been that way since forever; the op talking about fashion in Korea wasn't something unique or different.
fashion != "taking off your shirt at music festival"
Look at any of the models for higher class brands like Burberry, Jean Paul Gaultier, Prada, Yves Saint Laurent, etc and you'll find that all the models are tall, slender, low bf%, with decent muscular tone, excluding the ones that pose for underwear/sportswear.
Even more plebeian brands/wholesalers like H&M or UO follow this: see Sean O'Prey/whoever the fuck is promoting for them currently. + Show Spoiler [examples] +
your little bubble != what the rest of the world is trending
On April 01 2012 17:57 Havik_ wrote: I wonder what its like being Black and living over there.
Haha interesting question :D I think it would be a bad thing. People will live you alone and won't be aggressive or anything but blacks will always be perceived as inferior.
On April 01 2012 17:57 Havik_ wrote: Wow. This is certainly an eye opener. Had no idea all of SNSD had plastic surgery. No way anyone looks that hot naturally!!!
Modelling and being overly attentive to appearance correlates with a dysfunctional upbringing. Part of Asian culture is to put money and status at a higher priority than westerners do, which in turn sullies relationships; the core foundation of happiness.
I am 20 and lived the past 12 years in Vancouver, Canada. I am currently at Korea on a vacation and after reading the OP, I wasn't surprised at all. First thing when I arrived at Gangnam, NORTHFACE, MAKEUP, HIGH HEELS, LOUIS VUITTON EVERYWHEREEEEEEEEE.
Despite the fiesta in Korea about tallness, (I'm 186cm) being tall kind of sucks lol. Buses are just a tad bit too low so I have to duck, and the selection for shoes and pants are very low for long legs.
I think the main reason why apperance is so huge in Korea is that idols (THE DREAM APPERANCE) are everywhere:posters, commericals, dramas, reality/variety shows. They endorce EVERYTHING.
My Korean friends in Vancouver tell me to gain some weight and muscle and go outside because I am too pale while here, my relatives tell me I need to lose some weight. ㅠㅠ
Sorry for bumping the thread, but do you plan on making updates ? I plan on visiting Korea in a few weeks (I'm in Japan atm) and am very curious to know at least which hair-style is popular :p
I love how korean girls and guys look and I think they have really nice fashion as well. The only major thing I perceive as different is their discrimation against body proportions.
but honestly, who would want to be surrounded by scruffy looking unkempt people? taking care of how you look is important if you actually want other people to feel good and confortable around you. Even internet nerds learn this sooner or later
On April 01 2012 17:57 Havik_ wrote: Wow. This is certainly an eye opener. Had no idea all of SNSD had plastic surgery. No way anyone looks that hot naturally!!!
I wonder what its like being Black and living over there.
being black and living over there is a pain in the ass but a better than being Asian and living in Harlem, where a woman trying to eat a pizza got called "lady chinky eyes" by a African American Papa John's employee.
some of SNSD had surgery, some didn't. for example Yoona didn't have surgery
like 4 of the 9 girls had some work done. plastic surgery is common in Korea but entertainment figures aren't a good example because pretty much every good looking actress or singer has had surgery regardless of race of nationality. Scarlett Johannson and Angelina Jolie have had a tone of work, as well as Beyonce, Halle Berry, Kim Kardashian etc.
On April 02 2012 01:30 FrayzZeUsher wrote: Modelling and being overly attentive to appearance correlates with a dysfunctional upbringing. Part of Asian culture is to put money and status at a higher priority than westerners do, which in turn sullies relationships; the core foundation of happiness.
what a load of racist crap. ur either a very unhappy asian kid or a really unhappy white kid.
try travelling a bit and see the world. what are you going to post next? that israelis are xenophobic and Africans are violent?
if you think "part of Asian culture" is to put money and status higher than westerners, try driving through West LA or Tribeca NY.
being black and living over there is a pain in the ass but a better than being Asian and living in Harlem, where a woman trying to eat a pizza got called "lady chinky eyes" by a African American Papa John's employee.
Obviously that's a very offensive case, but it's far from showing anything. Koreans say many rude things about black people as well (and a general insult for anyone is "African"). Also, most American black parents don't forbid/disapprove of their children dating Korean girls, while the reverse is true.
Glad someone brought this thread back, or else I would've never seen it. It's very informative. I always knew most koreans had an obsession about their image, I just couldn't put it to words as to how.
Anyway, what do you think about teeth in korea? Sorry if this has been asked already. I didn't feel like reading all the comments.
Neat and alligned teeth are obviously prefered, i would say they do care and it is important because it directly affects your mouth shape, how much it protrudes. In Japan, I heard that unalligned teeth are looked upon as sex appeal, it is completely opposite in Korea just like most places around the world... quite a turn off.
more important than looks in Korea by far is your wallet I have seen super hot girls going after fat ugly foreign guys because they are rich and I see it a LOT
Also, most korean girls like foreign guys not because they are rich (LOL english teachers), but because A) they speak perfect english and are cheap practice partners B) they are perfect for causal/non-serious relationships in a country of men that look down on causal relationships (a relationship between koreans tends to get 'serious' much faster than an international couple), C) Foreigners tend to be more egalitarian in their relationships (this point is mostly important for korean girls that studied abroad or who have been exposed to western culture) and D) Foreigners are exotic.
Don't forget green cards. At least, that's what my mom warned me of, lol: "Don't ever get married to someone who is not a US citizen, they probably just want a green card, esp. if they're Asian. >:[ "
I had considered going to Korea after I get my degree for a holiday but think I'll bother if people are going to verbally abuse me. I had a pretty positive outlook before reading this now I'm totally creeped out that there is an island full of mentally disturbed people with obsessive compulsive disorders. Thanks dude saved me a couple K. Not being funny but is the suicide rate high in Korea?
EPT
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RuBy's switch to an acting career after being un-drafted coming off of Airforce ACE. Even when he was a progamer, he was hailed for his tall height (183.2cm ~ 6") and optimal head to body ratio. From what I've seen on TV, Ruby can't be good at acting; he was casted purely due to his looks.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/rotinegg/Untitled4.jpg)
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Stork and acne-stork. Also notice his hairstyle change from shaggy to dandy, which I'll cover in a bit![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/rotinegg/korea/maww2.jpg)
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please lets leave that of of this blog^^
I know it soudns ignorant but I don't wanna see those pics about one of my favourite actresses haha^^
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. And it's thanks to heavy and committed American economic relations, development, and investment in places like Aus and Korea that they are able to have the lifestyles they do today. 
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You definitely did made some good point minus the over exaggeration but I guess I'm little bit tired of the left wing biased media here that tends blow everything out of proportion.
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) Conservatives who make the majority in S.Korea are pragmatist. If they get beat by a bully they don't go begging the bully for an apology or tell on the teacher. They hit the gym, work out, and try to become stronger than the bully. It's what transformed our country from one of the poorest country in Asia to one of the richest in a span of 50 years. I won't make the same mistake and say this is all there is to it but we are very diverse when it comes to opinions. I along with many Koreans have moved on and you won't find that much of the deep hatred you keep insisting we have toward the Japanese. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OneWP.jpg)
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