EPTOn January 17 2012 01:04 turdburgler wrote:
i see your FBH and i counter with
Anyone can cook
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NfhXK.jpg)
i see your FBH and i counter with
Anyone can cook
Well try to become a bw progamer in korea than .
The foreign progamers perspective on esports - Page 7
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
Well try to become a bw progamer in korea than . | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10910 Posts
Well... Avg. normal guy in shitty office job spends 10-12 hours a day for work (thats travel included) and has ~5 weeks of holydays a year... Oh, and his payment is also not exactly "staggering". Hint: You also don't have "that" much free time as soon as you go for a "good" job. In fact working 8 hours/day won't bring you far no matter which job you do... | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
This is a structural problem within the teams, look at a Korean SC2 Pro team : it looks like a real sport club, everybody practicing in the same place, with the supervision of managers and coaches, and the help of maids. You can do amasing thing at home on your own, but as long as team don't gather themselve in team houses with proper practice conditions the skill gap is never going to narrow. Thing is, korea is a small country and it's easy to get everybody together in the same house, but when you have player from two or three different continent, even from two different countries, it's a lot harder. I think western pro-gamers have to travel ANYWAYS if they want to enjoy the best practice conditions. Doing it from home just doesn't cut it for the very vast majority of them. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 17 2012 01:17 Sawamura wrote: Well try to become a bw progamer in korea than . clearly you havent seen the film if thats what you took from that quote | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:10 mTwTT1 wrote: koreans sacrificed their lives living in their homecountrys, they were still connected with their friends and familys I give you the homecountry part. It's a bit more demanding to go to a country where you dont know the language. The last time I saw my family was on christmas. Before that sometime in summer. Why? Because I moved away form my hometown when I started to study. I left my friends behind, I left my family behind. I see see them 3-4 times a year. I also have friends from school who studied abroad which I didnt see for years. I also have friends from university who took 1 year to study in a foreign country. All those people left behind friends & family and moved to a country where they didnt necessarily knew the language. It's NOT normal to stay in one place for your entire life. If you want stay with your family & your friends - then you have to sacrifice other things. If you want to have success in certain uncommon fields - you have to sacrifice friends & family. You can't have both - or you're lucky  | ||
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All.In
United States214 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:10 mTwTT1 wrote: koreans sacrificed their lives living in their homecountrys, they were still connected with their friends and familys The very first professional gamers in Korea sacrificed their financial stability and lived in horrendeous situations to persue the dream of professional gaming. I am well aware that you are accustomed to the various anecdotes that revolve about Artosis' beginning years in Korea regarding that. Through this sacrifice, they managed to established the professional gaming scene that now flourishes in Korea (guess why all people still love Boxer even when he played shit?). So, do gamers in Korea have it much better in their scene? Yes of course, but because they earned it! tl;dr: if you think that western gamers have hard times against the recent onslaught of Korean gamers, try thinking back to the origin of Korean gaming. you'll realize that western gamers don't have it as bad after all. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
Maybe because I can read it how TT1 intended it to sound (him voicing truthful concern) unlike what majority of people seem to read it (him whining/complaining) | ||
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EternaLLegacy
United States410 Posts
Plus, do you think becoming a pro at anything isn't going to require a sacrifice? If you really are "going pro" you are basing your entire life around that one thing. If you think you can be a pro and still do other things then you need to grow up. | ||
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ShadowWolf
United States197 Posts
At the same time, you can change things to at least start building something here. But how will you know what to build if you don't fully understand why their technique works and then find ways to make it even better? I don't know how EG's house (and others) team house is structured, so I won't comment. If it's like the Kr style of training then good - at least they're going the right direction. The only thing is that you need a series of people to 'seed' things. If you have 10 - 12 really good, highly trained people with a coach who knows how to make it work then I bet you can get it going. Sending one guy to Korea to train in the oGs house and then expecting them to fix all of your issues seems certainly unrealistic. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On January 16 2012 19:59 mTwTT1 wrote: i actually touched on this point in my initial post.. the only way to stay competitive would be to move to korea but there are certain contrainsts that make that sort of a commitment too much of a high risk thing to do I guess the real question is: "How bad do you want it?" I don't follow the scene too closely, but I've read of American soccer players who take a big risk by moving to Europe to pursue their dream of becoming elite futballers. How is moving to Korea any different? I'm old enough to have chased my dreams, achieved some of them and given up on others. The loftiest of my dreams required more sacrifice than I was willing to give. I think it's an important question current and aspiring pros should ask themselves. "How much am I willing to sacrifice to be competitive (or the best)?" Understandably, you don't want to sacrifice your life here in the west. But the bottom line is this: to be the best, one has to train with the best. European basketball players come to the NBA to enhance their skills, so too will foreigners have to go to Korea to be better gamers. No matter what, great sacrifices will have to be made. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On January 17 2012 01:23 turdburgler wrote: clearly you havent seen the film if thats what you took from that quote "In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto: Anyone can cook. But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere." I didn't even watch the movie, but that quote got me curious. | ||
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
On January 17 2012 05:32 awwnuts07 wrote: I guess the real question is: "How bad do you want it?" I don't follow the scene too closely, but I've read of American soccer players who take a big risk by moving to Europe to pursue their dream of becoming elite futballers. How is moving to Korea any different? I'm old enough to have chased my dreams, achieved some of them and given up on others. The loftiest of my dreams required more sacrifice than I was willing to give. I think it's an important question current and aspiring pros should ask themselves. "How much am I willing to sacrifice to be competitive (or the best)?" Understandably, you don't want to sacrifice your life here in the west. But the bottom line is this: to be the best, one has to train with the best. European basketball players come to the NBA to enhance their skills, so too will foreigners have to go to Korea to be better gamers. No matter what, great sacrifices will have to be made. i want it this bad User was warned for this post | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On January 16 2012 21:32 KawaiiRice wrote: well I'm saying if you read it from just his perspective (which the title basically tells you) Obviously if you think about it in the overall scheme of SC2 it's incredibly whiny and stuff as everyone has pointed out but TT1 is giving his point of view as a pro... which to be honest I'm not sure why he posted it here but payam likes sharing his views with TL ... and I think it's backfired every single time lolol I agree, TT1 ought to be able to give his opinions without being insulted every way imaginable. He may not be a top skilled player, but I would think TT1 is in a better position to judge on the viewpoints of pro players than 95% of the arm chair e-sports commentators in this thread. I also do think there is something to this; maybe not quite to the extent that he claims though. The fact that Koreans are still looked at as vastly superior players to foreigners--despite players like Naniwa and Idra stomping their way through top Koreans at MLG and Stephano making zerg look OP--I think provides a hint of some of the inequalities that may exist in the SC2 world and I think there is a real discussion to be had over this. That being said this is a terrible way to frame this discussion. | ||
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Geiko
France1991 Posts
After this I don't get how you can say things like Any potential $$ that is going to a korean player is potential money that isn't going to our players | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
People practicing in Korea are going to get more out of their time than people elsewhere, that seems to be the root of the problem since the average skill level of people in Masters/GM are so much higher than the foreigners. I don't see how this can be solved. Being a fan of SC for years now, I never got into the whole Koreans vs the world thing. I got no problem with better players getting more money. I see this post like Catz post about growing regional esports. I don't care about race, just got no sympathy for people who aren't willing to work as hard as the next guy. | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On January 16 2012 19:59 mTwTT1 wrote: if i practice 8 hours a day on na and a korean practices 8 hours a day in a team house + on the korea ladder, whos gonna benifit more from their training? the answer is pretty obvious, both players put in the same amount of time but one is gonna benifit MUCH more than the other, the problem lies within the western esports scene as a whole and not with the player i actually touched on this point in my initial post.. the only way to stay competitive would be to move to korea but there are certain contrainsts that make that sort of a commitment too much of a high risk thing to do What is the risk to you that is not a risk to the Korean who does the same? You risk future education/employment opportunities... But so do they. I understand the cost. The sacrifice. You are moving to a foreign country and losing the direct support of your family/friends. But you don't lose touch with them completely. And there is sacrifice to be made to make it to the top, regardless of what industry you are trying to make it in, and particularly in competitive industries/sports. The fact that you have to move to a certain place to train and remain competitive is not exclusive to the SC scene. Sorry, but you guys really need to suck it up. In a young industry like this, average pro's just arent going to get the kind of money you want. | ||
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Peanutbutter717
United States240 Posts
For alot of foreign players its extremely hard to drop everything in our lives just so that we can move to korea in order to keep up with them practice-wise. Why cant we have the same type of training that they have without having to sacrifice a huge portion of our lives? I read this as "Koreans don't have as much responsibilities as Americans." I'll bet they have just as much responsibilities as us. If can look me straight in the eyes and say, "I practice 8 hours a day and get paid x amount, and a player from korea plays less and makes x amount more" then ill agree with you. It may be true in some cases but the people who aren't fully dedicated to the game will fall sooner rather than later. Also I think that the players that are the most personable and appreciative of they support they are given to play a game as a full time job are the people I would want to represent the sc2 scene. | ||
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